The Nineteenth Byte

primo

1:28 AM

@randomdude999 thanks! i intended to do that at some point, but never got around to it

the difficulty is that the node length shown sometimes requires zipping to a zero e.g. [<]

Adám

8:07 AM

@DJMcMayhem works for me

randomdude999

10:29 AM

@primo i still feel like it would be easiest to print the full path within bfcrunch itself, but i'm not a c# expert so i don't know how hard that would be (in any case, there would be no need for those fragile string parsing methods involving eval, lol)

also i didn't even think about that one. and actually, i didn't think about the case where you need to over/underflow to reach the desired value either

primo

@randomdude999 agree totally

New Meta Posts

10:42 AM

0

Q: Is using a language limitation to simplify an answer cheating?

This question is mostly in regards to This challenge and the comments My planned answer for a microcontroller language could do one of two things: make a general process to handle any input but will very definitely output incorrectly for inputs above a certain threshhold (max output is 255 / FF)...

randomdude999

11:27 AM

I got 25 bytes:
https://tio.run/##K6gsycjPM/7/PzO3IL@oRKEkI7OYq6AoM69EA8TUK9b8/x8A

took me a while to figure out it wasn't welsh, lol

(also took me a while to notice that it wasn't ruby)

J. Sallé

Hah, my latest github commit's hash starts with aaabc

3

randomdude999

i remember writing a program to brute force SHA1 so I could choose 7 first digits of the hash, aka exactly the amount github shows by default

A _

12:22 PM

Is anyone creative enough to create a Hello World program in It Online? (After I finish implementing it, of course.)

I guess it's done

Veskah

@randomdude999 deadbee

A _

@Veskah I remember this sequence. deadbeef

Veskah

@A_ It only shows 7 digits though

Wait, does digit by definition refer to base 10? Would it be a hexit then?

Fatalize

12:38 PM

@Veskah It doesn’t

A _

As far as I can tell di- means two.

I think the word for base-16 digit is Hexadecimal.

randomdude999

digit etymologically comes from latin where it is linked to the word for finger, so it is related to 10 (since we have 10 fingers), but the modern definition isn't linked to any specific base

@A_ hexadecimal is the number system, a single digit would be called simply "hexadecimal digit" or "hex digit" informally

Adám

@randomdude999 And further back, it comes from to point/indicate which is fitting for numerical digits :-)

J. Sallé

The modern definition for the word "digit" specifically refers to "The whole numbers from 0 to 9 and the Arabic numerals representing them, [... and] similarly fundamental numerals in other systems"

Adám

I really dislike using hex to mean hexadecimal — it'd be like saying two instead of forty-two.

randomdude999

12:47 PM

fair, but nobody uses base 6 and a lot of people use base 16

Adám

Senary

The senary numeral system (also known as base-6, heximal, or seximal) has six as its base. It has been adopted independently by a small number of cultures. Like decimal, it is a semiprime, though being the product of the only two consecutive numbers that are both prime (2 and 3) it has a high degree of mathematical properties for its size. As six is a superior highly composite number, many of the arguments made in favor of the duodecimal system also apply to base-6. == Mathematical properties == Senary may be considered interesting in the study of prime numbers, since all primes other than 2 and...

J. Sallé

@Adám Whenever I see someone saying hex my mind immeadiately turns to D&D

Fatalize

If bits are binary digits, then shouldn’t hexadecimal digits be called hits?

Adám

The hex wanted to hex a hex.

A _

Decimal digits should be called dits.

I guess senary digits should be called sits.

@Fatalize I guess the prefix bi- is exactly one of the suffixes of digit (it), so they portmanteau'd into bit.

Adám

1:23 PM

@A_ I'd go with snits for SeNary digITS, cf. trits for TeRnary digITS.

Quaternary quits

Hey, this beautifully makes unary digits into units!

Pental digits are pnits (should "p" be silent there?)

Septenary spits

A _

Adáry digits are aáits.

Adám

Are you calling me basic?

What would octal digits be‽ Otits sounds like "oh, tits"…

A _

"Octits"

Adám

Nonary nnits doesn't well either.

A _

"Nonits"

Adám

1:32 PM

units
bits
trits
quits
pnits
snits
spits
octits
nonits
digits

Though base-10 digits should really be decits or denits.

A _

What would a base-0 digit be called?

Adám

How do you count in base 0?

A _

I count "", "", "", where nothing represents the number 0.

Adám

So in base-0 are all numbers of equal magnitude?

A _

Probably. I need to find a prefix meaning "nothing".

Adám

1:38 PM

(0)₀ = 0⁰ = 1 = 1⁰ = (1)₀

A _

The best I can do is nilary digit = nilits.

Adám

@A_ Digits to the right of the decimal point would be highly problematic in base-0.

A _

What is 0⁰? 0 ÷ 0 is unsolvable.

I know, this is just a theory.

Adám

I'm too used to APL where it defaults to 1, so N⁰ is 1 for all N.

Though there are grounds to say that it should be 0.

A _

0x = 0 ; x = ?

Adám

1:42 PM

If we define exponentiation of N to the power M as the product over an all-N list of length N, then it'd be 1, as the product over an empty list is 1.

randomdude999

@A_ x ∈ R (actually, maybe even C)

Adám

@randomdude999 Not x ∊ O ?

randomdude999

i mean, 0x=0 holds for all real numbers

so unless O is some even larger set, no

Adám

But when computing the mean by dividing the sum by the count, the sum over an empty list is 0, and the count is clearly 0 too, but an average of 1 seems wrong in that case, whereas 0 feels right (but is it really?)

randomdude999

eh, i wouldn't say any single number feels right in that case

flawr

1:46 PM

@Adám the only digit you could ever use in base 0 is 0 anyway, isn't it?

randomdude999

lim(x->0) x/x = 1, but lim(x->0) 2x/x = 2, so really anything can be the right answer to 0/0

A _

@flawr Unary only uses 0. Base-0 uses no digits to represent numbers.

Adám

@randomdude999 Right, so either we error or choose a result that works well in some cases or let the user choose.

dzaima

@Adám s/to the right of the decimal point//

flawr

so in base 0 numbers don't exist:)

Adám

1:48 PM

@dzaima ?

dzaima

@Adám tio.run/##hcrbDYAgDAXQVe4CikO4CI8KTYASqDFOj8YF/…

Adám

@dzaima Meh, I suggest the following base-0 digits:

A _

@dzaima Fixed

dzaima

@A_ yeah, i realized that, but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

flawr

I suggest abandoning the idea of "base 0", as it is about as pointless as a basis of a vector space that includes 0 or asking about the primality of units/zero:)

is there no pointfull?

Adám

1:50 PM

@flawr Can I haz base -0 then?

flawr

-0 = 0 so no:P

randomdude999

In completely unrelated news: I added 3 more languages to my polyglot. At this point i've ran out of natural languages where 1000 can be represented using only ascii and i'm kinda afraid of adding any non-ascii here. If anyone can suggest more human or programming languages to add then i'd be grateful codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/194681/71803

also i propose we use base pi for everything

flawr

@randomdude999 octave, haskell

randomdude999

from what i can tell, comments in haskell start with --, not #, so it'll be hard to get that one in there. i haven't used octave though, will check it out

flawr

@randomdude999 in octave you use % as comments, or you can use #{ this is a comment #} for block commments if that helps

A _

1:54 PM

In completely unrelated news: In my opinion comments are byte-wasters in polyglots.

randomdude999

looks like octave allows single-line # comments too? that may actually be feasible then

Adám

@randomdude999 Isn't base -πi superior?

flawr

@Adám I suggest base exp(-πi)

randomdude999

@Adám not sure, haven't ever pondered about complex bases

flawr

@randomdude999 mister knuth did: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex-base_system

A _

2:02 PM

Idea: A language that allows RNG via converting a string from base 0.

A _

2:19 PM

@flawr 1 is a prime. There are no factors left except for 1 and itself (which is also 1).

0 is a composite number, because other than 1 and itself(0), there are still other factors.

Adám

@A_ By that reasoning, 1 should be a prime in all bases, but it isn't because a prime needs two (not one) divisor.

A _

@Adám I don't see that a prime number needs 2 different divisors in the definition.

Adám

Prime number

A prime number (or a prime) is a natural number greater than 1 that cannot be formed by multiplying two smaller natural numbers. A natural number greater than 1 that is not prime is called a composite number. For example, 5 is prime because the only ways of writing it as a product, 1 × 5 or 5 × 1, involve 5 itself. However, 6 is composite because it is the product of two numbers (2 × 3) that are both smaller than 6. Primes are central in number theory because of the fundamental theorem of arithmetic: every natural number greater than 1 is either a prime itself or can be factorized as a product...

dzaima

@randomdude999 non-ascii output shouldn't hurt as long as source is ascii. might be worth swapping usage of some good langs with escaping for that though

also this could help
https://tio.run/##xVPbcpswEH2uvmItMjGEAMZJ09QQ6vQySTrTdKaZ6UMxcWUQRr4IBkRuTfvrqQDXyThumrfuCoHOHna1q9WIFMnd3XwasRwOUUgEmIxnpTAFS8GDQ8sM04hWK0TDJAWDA8aNYclDYST/tYr8wrrMSZbRvLBG0u8KdPMIiR6TQmMchqtYllUoLMWBfA7LjZmr/FFOGI/LcCqJ1aZXzWk6q60L87PczdIL@kx@N2q8w/rw2bVIUm6vRbtr0Z2m9D5PgRQkD1ZIMSsSgIfVWRN1LHN@yFtfGRqXfEyN1/vPIe0ZcxGz9aQZGV3njIvkqXAJvSLjlF8/uac5mdIViBgZJbkhckrv7hQWRzSufr8kOWd8XIBl@f45UobAYuggRR0uBDTUrqSK0pad7LpYrvRcTriHXvTrKgNgVhA@hhkbpRhJ34xTOAUF2cP9jj3sygd1kG2aZh9RHrEYZVWmgEWZEIHRnIR5CkO1DlY77yG/vjcb386Oh18/fDk7@XyKIdjcrANSyuE9KQvp6/ZWXTDfHq6jRiW7qWn1ik8ozNmEaqgnM5…

A _

@Adám A prime number (or a prime) is a natural number that cannot be formed by multiplying two smaller natural numbers. 1 is the smallest natural number, it is impossible to form 1 via multiplying without using 1.

Adám

2:29 PM

> By the early 20th century, mathematicians began to agree that 1 should not be listed as prime, but rather in its own special category as a "unit".

@A_ Did you read the Wikipedia section I oneboxed?

A _

Argument terminated, I am now focusing on asking the primalty of 0.

Adám

@A_ Clearly 0 isn't prime, as it can be evenly divided by 1, 7, and 42 (and possibly other natural numbers too), so it has more than 2 divisors.

A _

0 is a prime number because the number cannot be represented with numbers less than 0. (So -1*0 is 0. We still use 0 as a factor for this result.)

dzaima

@A_ it all depends on what you define as a prime number. sure, you can define primes in a way that 0 is one, but the question is if that's more useful than it not being a prime

Poke

The first line of that wiki entry...

> A prime number (or a prime) is a natural number greater than 1

A _

2:38 PM

@Poke Pretend that we don't have the rule "greater than 1". We are finding the primalty of 0.

Poke

uh no?

Adám

@A_ Is -7 prime?

dzaima

@A_ then every number n > 0 isn't a prime as -n * -1 = n

A _

The problem is, can it be represented as multiples of smaller numbers? -n and -1 are both less than n where n > 0.

dzaima

@A_ so any n > 0 fits this definition of primes..

A _

2:41 PM

@dzaima Both of the multiples should be natural numbers. (That is the Wikipedia definition of primes.)

dzaima

@A_ ah, you're not removing that part. are you counting natural numbers starting with 0 or 1?

A _

Natural number

In mathematics, the natural numbers are those used for counting (as in "there are six coins on the table") and ordering (as in "this is the third largest city in the country"). In common mathematical terminology, words colloquially used for counting are "cardinal numbers" and words connected to ordering represent "ordinal numbers". The natural numbers can, at times, appear as a convenient set of codes (labels or "names"); that is, as what linguists call nominal numbers, forgoing many or all of the properties of being a number in a mathematical sense. Some definitions, including the standard ISO...

dzaima

@A_ "Some definitions [...] begin the natural numbers with 0, [...] whereas others start with 1"

A _

Wikipedia wasn't clear enough; I guess the prime definition works in both natural number definitions.

dzaima

@A_ well the wikipedia original definition had n>1, escaping the question completely

flawr

3:09 PM

@A_ in maths prime is usually defined slightly more generally

check out en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prime_element

this definition is deemed better as it works in more general algebraic structure, but still generalizes our notion in the integers

randomdude999

@ guy who recommended me to try octave: how do i get around lines without ; at the end having their results printed?

flawr

you probably don't?

I think that just works if you have a command that does not evaluate to anything

@randomdude999 what does your line look like now?

randomdude999

@flawr tio.run/…

2nd to last line is what i'm worried about. actually, last line too

god i'll have to rewrite the labyrinth code too once i get this working...

feersum

3:30 PM

@randomdude999 By putting a semicolon at the end.

randomdude999

i can't without fucking up the makefile

feersum

Can you exit in the first line?

randomdude999

not sure actually

what's the command/function for that?

feersum

probably exit or quit

randomdude999

yup, quit works

thanks

okay, octave done. any more suggestions?

Shaggy

3:42 PM

@randomdude999 Suggestions for ... ?

H.PWiz

You could do literate Haskell (Where it is the comments that are executed)

randomdude999

@Shaggy programming languages to add to a polyglot

Shaggy

@randomdude999 Japt! :)

randomdude999

literate haskell looks doable. i'll just have to make sure none of the 2d-language-area lines start with >

DJMcMayhem

3:57 PM

@randomdude999 What do the programs need to do?

randomdude999

16

Q: Print your char count in words, in many languages

This challenge is inspired by my earlier challenge "Create a program that prints the amount of characters it has, in words". This challenge's rules are simple: make a program that prints its character count, in words, which works in as many languages as possible. Each programming language the p...

natural-language polyglot rosetta-stone

DJMcMayhem

Brain-flak is pretty good for polyglotting if the task is simple enough

randomdude999

each one just needs to print the word for 1000 in a different human language

i'll try that one too then

New Main Posts

0

Q: It's as easy as 1,2,3 (except you have to add them up)

Let's consider a list \$L\$ (initially empty) and a pointer \$p\$ into this list (initialized to \$0\$). Given a pair of integers \$(m,n)\$, with \$m\ge 0\$ and \$n>0\$: We set all uninitialized values in \$L\$ up to \$p+m+n\$ (excluded) to \$0\$. We advance the pointer by adding \$m\$ to \$p\...

code-golf array-manipulation

DJMcMayhem

Feel free to ask me if you have any questions

I'm always trying to proselytize for brain-flak and vim lol

AdmBorkBork

4:02 PM

@DJMcMayhem What is the key to staying happy in a relationship?

Shaggy

@AdmBorkBork Never fecking see each other!

Veskah

@DJMcMayhem What's this rash from?

flawr

@Shaggy you mean putting blindfolds on?

randomdude999

???
i can't figure out what this error is (this is for literate haskell)
https://tio.run/##xVNtb5swEP68@xXOUTVQGgjp6wKh7E1tJ62TVmkfBpQ5wSlOiMnAaFlf9tczk6St1FXaxz1nbN/5dDx3Pme0mrI87@RcspJKtlxqfJyyMVH4SUvBxXVFbDsMr0C7BS1JCB@TLmh6sgExoN2AjbKiTTrC81BpZqkm7MOroLGrWMgrKq5JzocFgorPBSMXRAMnOe46SU990AXHsqwAmEj5GOYlF5KgrDMqEWZ0VBYk0Q3Q7iHl1VxHGS1GB9GCDqeVpELyCg34UXPZ8ASfzCgXg3ktL2WJ6jDq7R2NEOCBWx9CRZbg1rfLs@Trhy@X558vkMTb2yu@jAnyntaVonJ3p2883755yTWt@c3KbaWJCSMzPmEG9FUhlH1F3I3wase27TjCRjRbagjaOk@Ni1Fep8yrZMoLK/Ohybthrxu3in@lV@oHxVhvO22j45wgk0TWFRcp9pEPiVxknA7RcO/B3llXDTN2Q0t02YJL1/Pa9k7b1S4@BqfB6ad35@…

flawr

@DJMcMayhem How much longer should I continue eating chocolate cake for breakfast?

AdmBorkBork

4:07 PM

Until 11:00am, then it's eating chocolate cake for lunch.

flawr

@AdmBorkBork I mean how many more days:)

or weeks or milennia

DJMcMayhem

@flawr Forever

flawr

@DJMcMayhem that is gonna be hard, especially once I'm dead

DJMcMayhem

I'm sure you'll find a way

@flawr Oh, BTW I'm having coffee cake right now :)

randomdude999

literate haskell is supposed to ignore any lines not starting with >, right? so why is it throwing an error on the first line?

flawr

4:13 PM

@DJMcMayhem with or without coffee?

DJMcMayhem

Coffee on the side

New Main Posts

0

Q: Ethan Finds the Maximum Element

This is a problem that the Hacker Cup team made for the 2018 Facebook Hacker Cup, but we ended up not using it (though Ethan struggles through a variety of other challenges). Normally code size isn't a factor in the Hacker Cup, but we thought this would make for an interesting code golf challenge...

code-golf

randomdude999

4:34 PM

okay i have no idea how to do a brain-flak program

Wheat Wizard

@randomdude999 You want help? chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/41599/the-third-stack

randomdude999

i only have a few hundred chars left over too, so it may not even fit. i need to print something at least 10 characters long ("mille deux", french, or "mil kaj du", esperanto) and it doesn't look like printing is particularly simple in brain-flak

oh, will ask there

Business Cat

6:13 PM

Hey guys. Been quite a while since I was active here and I was thinking of trying to start doing this again

Poke

6:50 PM

You could not have picked a worse time

AdmBorkBork

*more interesting

randomdude999

why would this time be worse than others?

DJMcMayhem

203

Q: I'm stepping down

It's been an honor to serve as your moderator for the past four years. I would like to continue to do so, but after witnessing how Stack Exchange treats their volunteers, I decided that I'm no longer going to volunteer for them. The affected former sextuple moderator, Monica Cellio, has summariz...

discussion featured moderators

There's a good start

Business Cat

Yeah I saw a bit of the drama

I have not much knowledge of anything leading up to that incident. I read some people saying things about the poor or not transparent communication from SE, which I'm not really aware of

2 years is a long time to be away

Poke

7:25 PM

SE has become a microcosm of the United States

Politics everywhere

all the good people are leaving

Business Cat

Cool

I did lurk in here a few times and it was completely dead

Poke

well that happens too

flawr

@BusinessCat you've been away for 2 years??

Business Cat

Just about

I mostly stopped in the fall of 2017

flawr

I didn't notice:(

well ... you're a cat

welcome back anyway:)

Business Cat

7:38 PM

Thanks :)

DJMcMayhem

Cats are the best

8

Business Cat

I love cats

8

flawr

@DJMcMayhem not when they try to eat my relatives

DJMcMayhem

I think dogs are worse about that

flawr

I've only ever seen cats chasing slow worms

New Sandboxed Posts

8:06 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Draw the Ionising Radiation Hazard Symbol code-golfkolmogorov-complexitygraphical-output Draw the ionising radiation hazard symbol in an arbitrary colour on a distinctly coloured background. The specific proportions were published in the June 27th 1974 issue of the Federal Register of the US Go...

Transcript for