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00:00 - 22:0022:00 - 00:00

12:09 AM
@Zacharý why not great :P
@FreezePhoenix also isn't client (of the end-user) on the bottom of the usage pole :P
 
You can't join arrays together with one symbol!
 
@Zacharý doesn't mean it's not great
 
12:58 AM
How does Rankless APL Derivative sound as a language name?
 
Sounds rad.
 
@Zacharý you forgot "Great" at the start
 
Not that unit!
 
1:19 AM
AAAAAHHHHH
@ASCII-only
The fish!
Where?!
It's gone...?
Wow, only noticed now.
 
:P
anyone good at math in chat rn?
 
@ASCII-only ?
 
ok. so (if you know enough about groups) can a group be cyclic if some powers of the generator are missing
 
1:34 AM
what do you mean by missing
 
*not present? (in this case it's a cyclic subgroup, and the group it's a subgroup of doesn't contain e.g. g^2)
 
i can't understand your question
a group is closed under multiplication
if g is in the group, then so is g^2
 
@Scrooble My reaction as well
 
yeah nevermind i was 1. being stupid and 2. didn't read the question properly
 
ngn
@LeakyNun g is likely the generator
 
1:42 AM
@ngn Yeah. But my question was: must , say, g^2 be in the group (the answer is yes, and the real problem was me reading the question wrong) :P
 
anyone who's used D before here?
 
ngn
@ASCII-only from the group axioms, the operation must be closed, of course
 
@ngn yeah. idk how i forgot that >_>
 
ngn
@Scrooble the new avatar looks suspiciously like a kipper :)
@ASCII-only I'm still not sure when you say "group" whether you mean the supergroup or the subgroup. It may be easier if you paste the problem's text here.
 
2:04 AM
@ConorO'Brien Me!
 
@Zacharý I am in desperate need of help. What on earth does dub test do????
 
... I can't remember exactly. If I remember correctly, it either a) does unittest blocks; or b) does something with the package manager.
 
ok, so my problem is that I have no idea how to specify I want dub test to execute the tests in source/test.d, but I've been faced with lots of errors
 
@ConorO'Brien this may help?
 
no, that's the syntactic element
 
2:07 AM
Gah! I was just about to say that @ASCII-only!
 
also why is your avatar a happy cat now @ASCII-only
 
You have a separate file of tests:?
 
but: the package manager has a test framework builtin? O_o
 
oh I just got it
that was painful
I did everything but look at the dub test -h
dub test --main-file source\test.d fixes it, but now how do I make that the default in dub.json...
 
The most painful thing about D ... is porting/importing C/C++ code that's chop-ful of macros.
 
2:09 AM
@ConorO'Brien relevant
@ConorO'Brien apparently it's not easy. why not just write unit tests next to your code
 
@ASCII-only because that hasn't worked, but I'll try it
*again
 
-unittest command isn't working for you?
 
hmm. @ConorO'Brien actually apparently you can just add a unittest configuration to the json
 
import std.stdio;
import dunit;

void main() {
	writeln("Edit source/app.d to start your project.");
}

unittest {
	assert(false);
}
> All unit tests have been run successfully.
 
see above message
 
2:13 AM
I tried that
 
@ConorO'Brien unittest configuration? could you paste the json for that
 
{
	"name": "datache",
	"authors": [
		"conorob"
	],
	"dependencies": {
		"d-unit": "~>0.9.0"
	},
	"unittest": "source/test.d",
	"description": "Attache implemented in D.",
	"copyright": "Copyright © 2018, conorob",
	"license": "proprietary"
}
 
@ConorO'Brien yeah that's not right
@ConorO'Brien see "configurations" here
 
... you're implementing Attache in D?!
 
I've been staring at the page for a while that's not useful at all XD
 
2:15 AM
@ConorO'Brien brb
 
@Zacharý yes I am
 
^w^
 
	"configurations": [
		{
			"name": "unittest",
			"targetType": "executable",
			"mainSourceFile": "source/test.d"
		}
	]
@ConorO'Brien
(of course you'd need a normal configuration too)
 
it's still running app.d instead of test.d
 
2:17 AM
even with dub test? weird
 
yeah
λ dub test
Running custom 'unittest' configuration.
Performing "unittest" build using C:\D\dmd2\windows\bin\dmd.exe for x86.
d-unit 0.9.0: target for configuration "library" is up to date.
datache ~master: target for configuration "unittest" is up to date.
To force a rebuild of up-to-date targets, run again with --force.
Running .\datache.exe
Edit source/app.d to start your project.
 
hang on.
try changing targetType to library?
 
now it's complaining that multiple main statements aren't allowed
 
what's your test.d like :/
 
import std.stdio;
import dunit;

class Test
{
    mixin UnitTest;

    @Test
    public void assertEqualsFailure() @safe pure
    {
        string expected = "bar";
        string actual = "baz";

        assertEquals(expected, actual);
    }

}

unittest {
    assertEquals("a", "b");
}
 
2:19 AM
you're probably importing your app.d in test.d? or not
also where's the main function here :|
 
no idea
fwiw the following produces the same error:
import std.stdio;
import dunit;


unittest {
    assertEquals("a", "b");
}
 
i meant: shouldn't there be a main function for your unit tests
 
actually an empty file produces the same error
 
exactly? try with a main function
 
tried that
same error
 
2:21 AM
hmm.
could you paste the error
or TIO an MCVE maybe. idk
 

 datache

rewriting attache in d
 
2:44 AM
can a moderator move messages starting here to the above room?
 
I'm working on a language that transpiles to Source Config Scripts
 
I'm writing a Rankless APL Derivative
 
@ConorO'Brien But why
> rewriting attache in d
 
'Cuz D is awesome.
 
I'm suspecting it's just to make a pun on data
Like D is pretty good but IMO not that much better than Ruby to warrant rewriting all of atache
 
3:01 AM
No, it might be to interface with C and/or C++
 
@Zacharý any language can do that...
Ruby is no exception
 
(built in to it, I mean)
 
@Zacharý yes? most languages have that?
 
Then why are you rewriting it in D?
@ASCII-only ... I don't know what I'm saying
 
That's what I'm trying to determine, yes
 
3:04 AM
@Zacharý (well, not syntax support. but yeah there are almost always builtin modules to do these kind of things for you)
@Zacharý speed :P
 
@Pavel D is faster, and I need to rewrite it anyhow
 
Why do you need to rewrite it?
 
the scoping system is broken beyond repair
 
^^
 
speed is the reason why I'm trying to write a language that compiles to CIL :P
 
3:05 AM
@ASCII-only *takes this opportunity to support C# by pointing out it does have syntax support for loading external dlls*
 
@Pavel also *attache
 
@Pavel well actually it's attribute hacks
@ConorO'Brien *musttache
 
@ASCII-only There's an extern keyword
Yeah you have to set an attribute but the keyword is only there for C/++ interop
 
Would having something like 0b11.0010 be useful?
Binary floats.
 
3:22 AM
Have you seen how floats get represented in binary? It's absolute madness.
I mean, it makes sense why it's done the way it's done but it's not human-decodable.
csharp> BitConverter.GetBytes(1.0)
{ 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 240, 63 }
 
@Pavel it's fine?
it's just exponent, mantissa
 
It's not a representation a human would be able to use easily.
 
I went sort of crazy with the EBNF... hexadecimal exponential notation ._.
 
@Pavel well of course? it's the same with any binary number...
@Zacharý exponential?
 
Scientific notation
 
3:26 AM
well actually for... Cheddar I think it was I wanted arbitrary-base notation
<base>b<number>
also exponents for common bases: <exponent>[xbo]<mantissa>
 
Crap. You need a github for gists now >_<
 
@Zacharý gist.github.com :P
 
Doesn't work, brings me to the discover page
 
@Zacharý for gists
 
3:31 AM
@Zacharý if you mean listing all gists then gist.github.com/<username>
 
I mean: I wanted to not have to give my username to create a gist.
 
@Zacharý "github for gists"
that and what you meant are not similar at all
@Zacharý do you have a thing that can turn it into a parser
 
There's a chance I may be able to ask my metacircular compiler question after all.
 
@Joshua ?
 
smallest metacircular compiler is a really hard problem
 
3:33 AM
I think I have a design in mind: I can use a combination of modgrammar and some transformation rules. It'll be a hack, but if it works: I have a semi-esoteric language
 
@Joshua yeah. much too hard for PPCG
 
If it's really hard, ask theoretical computer science.
 
unless you allow instructions encoded in bits of course
@Joshua smallest as in binary size?
 
smallest as in source size
I've been writing one for some time and I've got a ways to go yet.
 
@Joshua then a language with a compile function :P
 
3:35 AM
ah; obviously not allowed
 
or some kind of golfy but powerful language. e.g. APL
 
yeah that's the kind of thing I had in mind
 
Yeah, use APL (or J or K) if you want a short language that's actually possible to read again.
2
 
I simply set out to make a compiler for a reduced subset of the most compact golfing language I could find.
 
or Brainfuck actually
 
3:37 AM
thought of that; that's just too hard
 
yeah. on second thought it's harder than it seems
what about asm :P
 
I took an estimate that most likely, the more powerful the language the smaller the metacircular compiler.
 
@Joshua depends on the amount of unneccessary verbosity
 
since when does J have unnecessary verbosity
 
like Java is pretty powerful, but also has a lot of unneccessary verbosity
APL derivatives, on the other hand, have very little
 
3:41 AM
@Joshua Since they stick a crap ton of one character at the end of everything
 
The compiler is currently 6932 bytes and will probably be something like double that when done
 
(AKA, succumbing to ASCII in the wrong way)
 
I'm losing way too much space in the output constants
 
Does this look weird: 0b11.111e101J0xaE^4 ?
 
@Zacharý yes.
 
3:44 AM
I could have swarn it changed as I looked at it
 
It did.
(Edit)
 
Would the compiler in BF just output machine code?
 
yes it would; have you considered how to make it?
I'm outputing asm because that way I can offload the hard work of computing jump offsets.
 
4:34 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

l4m2Given some lists of strings containing only lowercase letters, slice the first few(1 to length)characters for each string in each list, so that when each list is joined without separating symbol, it can't be any other list's possible expression. For example, for {[ab,cd],[abcd]}, {ac,a} is valid...

 
5:01 AM
@Joshua what about this
 
 
6 hours later…
11:20 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

l4m2Define f(a,b) := a if b=1; a^f(a,b-1) if b>1 for positive integers a and b, given four positive integers a,b,c,d, compare f(a,b) and f(c,d). Your program should output three constant values to mean "greater", "less" and "equal". Samples: a b c d f(a,b) output f(c,d) 3 2 2 3 27 > 16 4 ...

 
11:37 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

The random guyUse that goodn't meme There is currently a meme on the internet that consist of taking a sentence, reverse the meaning and adding n't at the end. For example, I am small becomes I am talln't Challenge For the sake of the challenge, we'll simplify this : Your task will be to detect whenever the...

 
 
3 hours later…
2:18 PM
1
Q: Produce a List of Rotonyms 1

UmbrellaRotonyms 1 ROT13 ("rotate by 13 places") is a simple letter substitution cipher that replaces a letter with the 13th letter after it, in the alphabet. So, A becomes N, N becomes A, B <-> O, and so on to M <-> Z. ROT13('abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz') == 'nopqrstuvwxyzabcdefghijklm' A "Rotonym"...

0
Q: Produce a List of Rotonyms 2

UmbrellaRotonyms 2 A "Rotonym" is a word that ROT13s into another word (in the same language). For this challenge, we'll use an alternate definition: a "Rotonym" is a word that circular shifts/rotates into another word (in the same language). For example: 'stable' < 'tables' < 'ablest' 'abort' > 'tab...

1
Q: 99 bugs in the code

Sam Dean99 bugs in the code The adaption of "99 bottles of beer on the wall" for computer science where the bugs increase instead of the bottles decreasing is often re-posted around the internet. Example T-Shirt Here. I think it'll be interesting to see potential recursion and random number generation ...

 
@Mego Uhh... sorry, but it's impossible, not unpossible
 
I'm not convinced that that was a mistake: urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Unpossible
 
Uhh... sorry then, didn't know
 
2:43 PM
Hello, I have some questions regarding a possible challenge (that I would like to create), and would it be possible that someone can answer them for me
 
Go for it
 
@DJMcMayhem : Thanks. So, there is a challenge on BF interpreter , but was written in 2011 and has some limitations and couple of restrictions. Now I am curious if I published a challenge on BF interpreter would it marked as duplicate ?
^ Assuming that I remove all restrictions and keep it plain BF interpreter
 
What restrictions are there? The original challenge seems well specified to me
 
3:24 PM
huh. PyCharm seems to use different interpreter than I specified. It installs packages to wrong directory...
and it doesn't detect pip again.
this is becoming annoying
pip.exe exists, but the module is undefined. I had it before. don't remember what was/is wrong
C:\Windows\system32>pip
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "d:\programy\python\lib\runpy.py", line 193, in _run_module_as_main
    "__main__", mod_spec)
  File "d:\programy\python\lib\runpy.py", line 85, in _run_code
    exec(code, run_globals)
  File "D:\Programy\Python\Scripts\pip.exe\__main__.py", line 5, in <module>
ModuleNotFoundError: No module named 'pip'
clap clap
 
3:41 PM
@MuhammadSalman In my opinion such limitations are not bad. Limitations such as "programs must read from stdin" are bad.
 
4:02 PM
@user202729 IMO restrictions like that can make sense, I don't think its fair to make such a blanket generalization.
 
When the main difficulty is the input format or means, rather than the actual computations, it is usually a sign of a not very interesting challenge — Luis Mendo yesterday
Most of the time flexible I/O are preferred.
 
I never denied the fact
 
@ConorO'Brien But?
 
there is no but, read the statement again :P
 
I still can't understand.
 
4:12 PM
I say "restrictions like that can make sense", and warned against making generalizations that might hinder certain types of challenges. Perhaps the challenge is to implement some bash utility, such as cat or similar. I don't think it's a bad thing to limit input to only STDIN in that case.
 
Do we have a Language Design Room?
 
@DJMcMayhem Yes.
 
Where though? For whatever reason, my browser hates searching for chat rooms
 
Can't find any unfrozen one.
 
A frozen one would be fine too
 
4:20 PM
(yes yes, I know you're a mod and can unfreeze rooms, but if nobody is inside it doesn't help much)

 Language Development

Discussion about the development of esoteric or non-esoteric l...
 
Ah, found it
ninja'd
 

 Esoteric Programming Languages

A room for discussing, creating, using, golfing and discoverin...
 
Hmm, actually I think the second one would have a better chance of staying unfrozen
Since it's broader. There's a wider audience for esolang users than esolang creators
 
Looks like that Hello World has just been viewed 100000 times.
 
5:12 PM
@DJMcMayhem Can you have a look at the linked profiles here? Something is off. Morten can't reset his parent user to SO.
 
@Adám Yeah, something's definitely off. It seems like from chat, their SO account is deleted, but from PPCG their chat account is deleted?
Whatever it is, I don't think I can really help. You should have them contact SE support.
 
@DJMcMayhem Mother Meta or stackoverflow.com/contact?
 
The latter
 
@DJMcMayhem Does it make sense to request merging of the two profiles?
 
I'm not sure. Is the deleted account theirs?
@Adám I'm asking an SO mod about it
 
5:24 PM
@DJMcMayhem Certainly. Don't know how, though.
 
@Adám It looks like they had their SO accounts merged recently, which doesn't merge chat too. You should ask them to recreate their chat account
 
@DJMcMayhem How does one do that?
 
I'm not entirely sure. Try logging out of chat, and then visiting chat from their SO account?
 
@DJMcMayhem How does one log out of chat?
 
I don't know.
I made a new chat account by superpinging them
 
5:34 PM
A nice introduction to group theory: https://brilliant.org/wiki/group-theory-introduction/
 
@DJMcMayhem ?!
 
@DJMcMayhem How can I/he even check if it helped? Does he need to do anything to use the new account?
 
I don't know. Can he chat?
He should have a notification on SO
 
What is "superpinging"?
 
5:42 PM
@Zacharý Pinging someone in a room they've never been in.
It's a mod super-power
 
Ah
 
6:02 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Mr. XcoderIs this region concave? Definitions An N by N matrix of positive integers is (for the purposes of this challenge): concave if all the integers that are on the Kth and (N-K+1)th rows and columns (1-indexed) are strictly higher than those on the (K+1)th and (N-K)th rows and columns, for any int...

 
6:19 PM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

ngmIs this a Weyr matrix? There's a type of matrix called the Weyr canonical form. A characteristic example is: A Weyr matrix is an upper triangular matrix which: has diagonal blocks λI of non-increasing size; and has superdiagonal blocks consisting of an identity matrix sitting on top of a 0...

 
6:35 PM
-2
Q: Cartesian product of a list with itself n times

Joshua MartinWrite code which when given a list of values and a positive integer (n) outputs the cartesian product of the list with itself n times. This is equivalent to writing nested for loops over the list e.g. in python2 for x1 in list: for x2 in list: for x3 in list: ... ...

 
6:55 PM
Does anyone know of a way to get a list of all existing objects in Java?
(I'm trying to do some hella weird reflection magic)
 
Jumpscares in VR games are the worst. Though to my neighbours, it probably looked like I was just randomly screaming at my wall.
 
Nice
 
@Pavel what's your avatar about?
 
@Riker I'm part of the Improved Tin Openers clan for junethack
 
oh nice
aw you're not joining amy's clan? lol
 
7:01 PM
@Riker I signed up withing minutes of registration opening
 
I think amy made her clan then as well
tha'ts aosdict's clan, right?
(junethack is down atm)
 
@Riker ye
 
yeah, amy's predated htat one
 
I play xnh, so I went to aosdict immediatly
 
>:U
 
7:02 PM
And I don't play slex
 
1. that's not really a bad thing 2. that doesn't mean you shouldn't have joined
but eh ok I get that
 
 
1 hour later…
8:09 PM
How do you declare an encoding in Python again?
 
@Zacharý With a shebang
 
Okay, I just looked it up.
 
You mean of the source file, right?
 
Yup
 
8:48 PM
Who said that code golf is not useful?
> I'm developing a code golf language myself as my undergraduate thesis and prove that it's competitive and Turing complete.
 
9:13 PM
O_O
How does one prove competitiveness?
I know the latter half: you just implement BF (at least for a lot of languages)
CMP Should implementation of binary numbers, octal numbers, decimal numbers, and hexadecimal numbers be in separate files?
 
@Zacharý What do their notations look like?
 
Binary: ¯0b1.1E¯1, Octal: ¯01.7E¯3, Decimal: ¯9.9E¯2, Hex: ¯0xA.F^¯A
 
@LuisMendo first of all, congratulations to anybody who has found such a PhD...
 
@Zacharý In that case, separate files. However, if you used 2b¯1.1e¯1, 8b¯1.7e¯3, ¯9.9e¯2, 16b¯A.Fe¯A, I'd say one file.
 
16b¯A.Fe¯A is definitely a no. That's the reason ^ is another delimiter, so as to not clash with hex. I might add that in after I get the basics working.
 
9:25 PM
@Zacharý So ^ will not be a built-in?
 
@Zacharý yes pls
@Zacharý oh. Adám means using <base>b literals. which is good too :P
 
@Zacharý My idea is to unify the notations so that one can specify a number in any base. Remember, APL is all about unifying and generalising concepts
 
@Adám 1b1111111111111111111111111111 :P
 
@ASCII-only Yes, or even 1b¯11111e¯111 (which is ¯5e¯3)
 
Yeah, this is definitely going in after I get a parser working.
 
9:29 PM
@Adám :/ oh. e is written in the same base but done in decimal
 
@Zacharý But why bother implementing parser for a more complicated notation.
@ASCII-only Uh, actually, I don't know based on @Zacharý's examples.
Maybe 1b¯11111e¯111 is ¯5×1⁻³
 
No, e/E/^ corresponds to the base.
Hence: ¯0xA.F^¯A
 
@Zacharý Oh, ok.
 
@Zacharý how does this follow from corresponding to the base
 
@Adám I want 0b1A (or 2b1A) to parse as 0b1 A (or 2b1 A)
 
9:32 PM
@Zacharý But that could mean 10.9375×10⁻¹⁰ or 10.9375×16⁻¹⁰
 
Think I'm finally done with the Canvas refactor (and update spree). The main.js diff is beautiful. Next up automate running examples as unit-tests :p
 
@Zacharý 1b12b23b34b4 can easily be parsed as four separate literals though :P
 
@Zacharý Why won't 2E3 parse as 2 E3 then?
 
@Adám because E is part of the literal
 
Because who would use E3 as a name for a variable (that was my justification)?
 
9:35 PM
@Zacharý me
 
Just use E then.
 
In fact, E/e and J/j are special-cased in Dyalog APL, so 1E2 is a single number but 1F2 is 1 F2. I personally don't like it, because it makes adding additional number formats a breaking change.
@Zacharý I'd use c2 for the square of the speed of light.
 
@Adám yeah this is what Zacharý intends to do
 
... this is definitely a step or few up from MY, that's for sure
 
@Zacharý no. i mean what if you already have E and E2 (not that E2 is possible either)
 
9:37 PM
@Zacharý You could reserve one or two special characters for base and exponent. E.g. 16_¯A.F^¯A
@ASCII-only Use F.
 
It's not like A ... Z are going to be taken.
 
but what if F doesn't fit the mnemonic (e.g. you're using E for element) :P
make epsilon a valid identifier
 
I think it will be horribly confusing. So e.g. 0xA.FG will parse as 10.9375 G
 
also yeah that is a good point
 
0x¯A.F^¯EJ0x¯A.F^¯a is one number, so I think I might have gone overboard
...
 
9:46 PM
@Zacharý Well, it is somewhat of an unusual number, but it makes sense. 16b_a.f is valid in J, but you can't use exponential and complex format with custom bases.
 
I see why: they collide
 
@Zacharý Yes, and J allows digits above the base. so 2bf0 is 30.
¯1.5E¯16J¯9.9E¯12 is valid APL of course.
 
@Zacharý wait. what. how
 
@ASCII-only It is approximately –1.5×10⁻¹⁶–9.9×10⁻¹²i
 
@Adám yeah but by "one number" I assume he means a single literal
 
9:53 PM
@ASCII-only –(10+¹⁄₁₆)×16⁻¹⁴–(10+¹⁄₁₆)×16⁻¹⁰i
@ASCII-only Yes, it is just an extension of the traditional APL/J format for complex numbers by allowing other bases in the mantissa, exponent-base, and exponent.
 
Of course, I don't expect this kind of syntax to be used, except maybe with a hack
 
@Zacharý Why not just insist on digits being uppercase and indicators (b, e, and j) being lowercase (or the opposite)?
 
(i is also an indicator ... which might have been pointless)
 
@Zacharý What is it for?
 
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