The Nineteenth Byte

totallyhuman

12:28 AM

hah I totally thought I could get away with installing an unstable DE on a custom Linux distro for chromebooks

Destructible Lemon

1:01 AM

I have a new charger now

Pavel

@totallyhuman What DE?

Esolanging Fruit

@HyperNeutrino Increments and unincrements (I and `+` in Jelly)

Also, Jelly's mould (shape one list like another)

Riker

@HyperNeutrino added 2 in

idk about the bool one since I was too lazy to scroll

may be a dupe

totallyhuman

@Pavel Pantheon :P

but I'm ridiculously happy with how gallium is working out on this former piece of feces

Pavel

Eh, xfce isn't bad

totallyhuman

1:18 AM

oh yeah xfce + arc dark + papirus, it's great

HyperNeutrino

yay thanks for suggestions :D

array into booleans is just truthify so I'll add that in

totallyhuman

plus a drop-down terminal, which I never realized could be so useful

Pavel

@totallyhuman Absolutely. Drop-down terminals are neat.

DLosc

1:51 AM

Python question, if anyone happens to know the answer: Say I have a directory A. A contains file a.py and also subdirectory B. Subdirectory B contains b.py. In b.py, how can I import a.py?

Diagram:

A
|- a.py
|- B
   |- b.py

I want to have import a in b.py, but if I just write that, I get ImportError.

mudkip201

i'm not sure, but maybe import A.a ?

DLosc

@mudkip201 Still ImportError.

mudkip201

308

Q: Importing modules from parent folder

I am running Python 2.5. This is my folder tree: ptdraft/ nib.py simulations/ life/ life.py (I also have __init__.py in each folder, omitted here for readability) How do I import the nib module from inside the life module? I am hoping it is possible to do without tinkering with...

check the second answer

DLosc

Ah--that's what I get for looking in Python docs instead of StackOverflow. :P

mudkip201

docs.python.org/2/whatsnew/…

well... :P

ah

@DLosc perhaps from A import a, as suggested by those docs

DLosc

1:58 AM

@mudkip201 Unfortunately, this won't work for me, since per the comments, "You have to be in a package, i.e., you must have an init.py file." I don't--this is more ad-hoc than that. It'll be easier just to move b.py into the A directory. Thanks, though!

(That's __init__.py)

mudkip201

yw

DLosc

(I was reading docs.python.org/3/reference/import.html, incidentally.)

James Holderness

For those of you that were asking earlier about how the other dimensions worked in Funge-97, this is a short sample of Quadrefunge-97 code that demonstrates the basic concepts: Try it online!

I'm not exactly an expert on the subject, but if anyone wants to know more, I'll do my best to answer any questions you might have.

Although maybe the esolang room (whatever it's called) may be a better place for that.

Unihedron

2:20 AM

I think it's not good to integrate additional dimensions beyond the two in befunge, because there's no intuitive presentation. Where as characters in a wall of text is easily mapped to a pair of X and Y coordinates based on the column and row it's in, and moving a pointer inherently just means going to an adjacent grid, there's no clean way to lead into any more beyond that. While there are solutions like using markers or splitting code into multiple files, they just don't preserve that "obviously adjacent" style.

James Holderness

I didn't invent the language. It is what it is.

HyperNeutrino

Back a while ago I used Atom more than Sublime because a) I broke sublime and b) sublime had some things about it that I didn't like. Then I upgraded Atom and now Atom has almost all of those exact things that caused me to convert to Atom D:

mudkip201

lol

Pavel

@HyperNeutrino have you tried... VSCode?

MD XF

I have a polyglot answer that requires hitting page-down 15 times to get past it. Can I put a lot of it in a GitHub gist and just keep the final program?

HyperNeutrino

2:32 AM

hm no i haven't. is that good or are you saying "be glad atom is not that"

@MDXF most of it is explanations or something like that?

Pavel

@HyperNeutrino VS Code is basically what Atom should have been, IMO.

MD XF

@HyperNeutrino codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/153761/61563 nope most of it is BF derivatives

HyperNeutrino

oh okay. hm I might check it out sometime but no I've never seen it before

oh it's that challenge. oh god D:

yeah I'd say do that so people don't have to scroll for 18 years :P

MD XF

Yep gonna do that now

Pavel

It's much faster, has incredible intellisense (especially for js), and IMO looks nicer.

HyperNeutrino

2:34 AM

it takes me 30 PG-DN hits to get it completely off the screen

oh cool. thanks for the suggestion!

HyperNeutrino

3:24 AM

I need a bit of Java help: I'm doing JSplitPane::setDividerLocation but it has no effect on the actual divider location which still shows up as 0. The order of events is create the split pane with components, add to the frame, set the frame to visible, change the divider location, and repaint the frame.

MD XF

This is really cool blog.zok.pw/hacking/2015/08/18/fac-rubik-solver

And this is cooler blog.zok.pw/hacking/2016/08/12/meccano-rubiks-shrine

And I want to make a Rubik's Cube / Cubically room but it would just get frozen like all my other rooms

MD XF

3:57 AM

CMP: Unicode for a scramble cube builtin?

Anonymous

@MDXF Same character as solve cube but Zalgo'd

MD XF

@Mego that's a good idea but Zalgo comes after the character so how does the interpreter detect that XY (x = solve cube, Y = something zalgo) means command(XY) and not command(X) command(Y)

HyperNeutrino

if you don't give Y its own meaning then XY is unambiguous

anyway gtg o/

Anonymous

@MDXF By correctly parsing Unicode combining marks

HyperNeutrino

or doing things correctly ^ but ehh that takes effort :p

Pavel

4:05 AM

eww, effort

6

tfbninja

4:21 AM

@mudkip201 Are there any Pyt docs? It looks pretty cool.

Pavel

Asking PPCGers for documentation is pretty hit-or-miss

MD XF

@Pavel hey mine are good cubically.github.io/docs

Pavel

@tfbninja Yes there are, see github.com/mudkip201/pyt/wiki

tfbninja

Thanks! @Pavel

quartata

4:36 AM

@Pavel VS Code is also the best performing Electron app I've seen, it's pretty impressive

I wish it had better C++ intellisense though

Pavel

5:03 AM

@quartata That's because it's not pure electron, lots of performance-intensive components interop with native code.

Pavel

5:15 AM

@totallyhuman The next time I barf a frustrating tech problem into tnb, I'm citing this message.

quartata

@Pavel I figured, although the UI is still smooth

RosLuP

6:37 AM

I posted in meta one possible challenger on the relevant function Atof in codegolf.meta.stackexchange.com/a/14666/58988 if someone want see what to change is welcome... thanks

With possible one vote for to decide if repost it in the main site or not

New Sandboxed Posts

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Write a bullet proff Atof This is the function that every language has to have the function Atof, that means Array to float (for Reference K&R pag 69 70 in the italian version), it is a function that gets one number from one string. I say to write Atof function that has the follow two argument...

Οurous

@RosLuP I edited it to be more readable, I think it maintains the original intent

RosLuP

7:23 AM

@Οurous thank you

ATaco

8:05 AM

Today was my last day at work. I start the Uni business next week.

New Main Posts

8:47 AM

1

Q: Bottom part of the Hourglass

Challenge: Input: Three integers: bottom-edge length; starting amount of grains of sand; index Output: Output the state of the bottom part of an hourglass at the given index, based on the given bottom-edge length and amount of grains of sand. Challenge rules: We simulate the grains of sand w...

code-golf ascii-art number integer

Οurous

9:05 AM

When you golf so hard the compiler apologizes:

Parse error [main.icl,3;31,nested guards]: sorry, but for the time being there is a default alternative for nested guards expected

Adám

@MDXF 🔀︎

user202729

11:59 AM

@Adám For the array-to-float challenge, [...] means ? in regex, not *.

Adám

@user202729 You're right. I'll fix that.

@user202729 Maybe I should add PCREs?

user202729

... what if the language has multiple float types?

(multiple includes infinity)

Adám

@user202729 Are there languages with infinitely many float types that do not have infinite precision?

J. Sallé

Choose the most or the least precise?

user202729

What about finite, but >1?

Adám

12:07 PM

@user202729 I'm sure the best is to let the answerer choose. I'll add that.

New Sandboxed Posts

1:07 PM

0

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Predict the DNA Nucleotides! Your task: Given the nucleotides on one side of a piece of DNA, predict what nucleotides are on the other side of the piece! Background Information: DNA is made up of 2 helixes, each of which contains nucleotides (which are proteins) represented by the letters A, ...

Dennis

1:39 PM

Any Common Lisp people here?

Anonymous

@Dennis Nope, just Lisp royalty :P

Dennis

I'll take what I can get. ;)

Erik the Outgolfer

@Mego >_>

Dennis

Anyway, I'm wondering whether it would make sense to offer both GNU CLISP and SBCL on TIO.

Erik the Outgolfer

@Dennis ...should I interpret that the good or the bad way

Anonymous

1:53 PM

@Dennis How would that be different from the 3 versions of C# you have on TIO?

Erik the Outgolfer

or the 5 versions of Python

HyperNeutrino

well python 2 and python 3 have some pretty big differences

but like CPython vs PyPy vs IronPython so I see what you mean

@EriktheOutgolfer there are actually 7 versions

2 other things but those are Jython (not really Python) and Symbolic Python (esolang)

Anonymous

@EriktheOutgolfer There are actually 8 versions :P 1 vs 2 vs 3 are major differences. CPython vs PyPy vs Cython vs IronPython vs Jython offer significant differences, also, because of implementation details

HyperNeutrino

is Jython even actually Python? I thought it was a Java-like language with python built-ins that compiles to JVM

or wait maybe it was a python-like language with Java built-ins

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino It's Python hosted on the JVM

Anonymous

1:56 PM

Like IronPython but substitute JVM for .NET

HyperNeutrino

Oh okay.

Dennis

@Mego I'm fairly certain that there are significant differences between the .NET Core and Mono versions of C#. I have no clue if the same is true for SBCL. A recent addition to TIO required it, but symlinking clisp to sbcl seems to have been enough.

Anonymous

@Dennis The main differences between .NET Core and Mono are the lack of WinForms, WebForms, WPF, and ODBC in .NET Core, which doesn't make any difference for TIO's purposes, since you can't display forms or connect to a DB in TIO

Anonymous

Also you can't do Windows syscalls (like pInvoke) in .NET Core, which, once again, isn't relevant for TIO anyway :P

Anonymous

For TIO, the only real difference is performance, which is masked by the gremlins that randomly slow down the servers :P

Dennis

2:08 PM

It's more than that. For example, 0b00010011_00000011_00011001 works with .NET Core and VIsual C#, but not Mono.

Anonymous

@Dennis That's just because Mono hasn't fully caught up to C# 7. I meant fundamental differences that transcend language versions.

Dennis

ELVM is my new favorite toy.

7

AdmBorkBork

@Dennis Witchcraft.

Anonymous

@Dennis Me too. I've been playing around with it, and it's awesome.

Anonymous

The logical next step is to use ELVM to generate polyglots

5

Anonymous

2:24 PM

And I just now realized that shinh made it. Because of course they did.

Dennis

The any-to-EIR compilers are still building after 11 hours...

HyperNeutrino

Neutrino is turning out so much more nicely than Enlist :D

Thomas Ward

2:44 PM

beeps

o/

how goes it

you mean neutrino?

All in favor of waiting a few more days to collect nominations for best of? Not all categories have nominations yet.

HyperNeutrino

I'm fine with that though I haven't really been following progress yet. Which ones have no nominations yet?

Anonymous

2:50 PM

@HyperNeutrino Best Mathematical Insight has 0, Kansas City Shuffle has 1

user202729

... What's EIR?

HyperNeutrino

oh okay thanks

Anonymous

@user202729 ELVM IR

Anonymous

Like LLVM IR but for esolangs

user202729

New rule: If your program is not shorter than that generated by ELVM IR, it's not a serious contender.

Anonymous

2:52 PM

Basically shinh takes "so concerned with if you could that you never stopped to think if you should" to heart and produces great but mostly-impractical stuff :P

Anonymous

Like anagolf and ELVM

user202729

Why doesn't Unicode have 3D drawing characters...

HyperNeutrino

(pls add bottom far back line ty)

neutrino :D

user202729

No wiki?

I need new keyboard again...

J. Sallé

@HyperNeutrino why does it output 5/2 instead of 2.5?

HyperNeutrino

3:02 PM

because sympy

@user202729 I'll be adding that sometime. It's CP437 in case you're wondering.

@J.Sallé sympy does that (precision). you can add -n as an argument if you want to use native python number types

or --native

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino Do you use just sympy or sympy+numpy?

HyperNeutrino

just sympy right now

J. Sallé

@HyperNeutrino ah, I see

HyperNeutrino

i have lots against IEEE and how 0.1+0.2!=0.3 :p almost all languages I make use sympy numbers

(at least recent languages)

Dennis

What do you have against the Institute of Electrical and Electronics Engineers?

HyperNeutrino

3:10 PM

:(

Fatalize

^^ their absurdly high prices

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino ...You do realize that Python has a fractions module, and so using sympy just for rationals is a bit overkill, right?

HyperNeutrino

yeah, but later on I'll be adding stuff like e and pi and also there are complex numbers (not sure if fractions support those)

can't edit anymore but i meant IEEE754 :P

Anonymous

@HyperNeutrino For irrational/transcendental numbers, mpmath is lighter. Python's fractions support any numeric type.

HyperNeutrino

Oh hm thanks. I might switch in that case

Dennis

3:13 PM

But mpmath is still floating point, no?

HyperNeutrino

it claims arbitrary precision

but mpm only does like computation stuff, it doesn't actually let you store number types which is what i need

Dennis

@HyperNeutrino That just means you can make rounding errors as small as you want, not that they won't happen.

HyperNeutrino

oh yeah ok. yeah no that doesn't work for me, i just read the docs

Dennis

I wish there was a lighter version of SymPy. I do like that sqrt(2) is the actual square root of 2 instead of some approximation, but I don't need most of the stuff it has to offer, and I could live without the +500ms startup time.

Anonymous

@Dennis Yeah, but with irrationals/transcendentals, you can't do much better. Just symbolic computation tricks to reduce rounding errors. Which I guess is a fair reason for using sympy.

HyperNeutrino

3:18 PM

yeah, the thing that makes me hesitate to use it so much for all of my languages is the startup time which really hurts proton because it's slow anyway

NieDzejkob

Are there any two hexadecimal numbers that only use the digits a-f, such that their difference is 9?

Dennis

No.

Subtracting 9 from a hexadecimal number ending in a-f produces a hexadecimal number ending in 1-6.

NieDzejkob

oh, clever

Transcript for