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Uriel
Uriel
12:01 AM
@HyperNeutrino APL: {,/(⊢,⍵+1-⊢)¨⍳⍵÷2}
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
Nice
Now time to read through that to make sense of it because I'm trying to learn APL lol
 
ATaco
ATaco
Yay, atleast it beats APL!~
 
Uriel
Uriel
@HyperNeutrino it takes the range of half the input, and for every item gives the item and the input + 1 - the item (7 = 8 + 1 - 2)
@ATaco note APL is not a golfing lang
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
ah ok thanks
 
Pavel
Pavel
@Uriel What are you talking about
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
12:15 AM
gtg o/
 
Pavel
Pavel
It totally is
What sane language looks like {,/(⊢,⍵+1-⊢)¨⍳⍵÷2}
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
@Adám JS: c=>'A1 H9 IAG NOR UNC WHO XS'.match(c+`\S+`)+''||c
@Adám Wait that doesn't work, JS: ('A1 H9 IAG NOR UNC WHO XS'.match(c+`\S+`)||c)[0]
 
Uriel
Uriel
@Pavel I believe the guy who coined the term golfing was not even born when the first APL line was written
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
@Adám JS: c=>c+({A:'1',H:'9',N:'OR',U:'NC',W:'HO',X:'S'}[c]||'')
 
Pavel
Pavel
@Uriel I'm sure when Hero of Alexandria invented the steam engine he was already thinking of it's use for powering trains.
 
Uriel
Uriel
12:32 AM
@Pavel you can ask @Adám how different is APL nowadays
 
ATaco
ATaco
Just because it wasn't designed to golf, doesn't mean it's not golfy.
 
Uriel
Uriel
@ATaco oh, surely it is
 
Maatouq
Maatouq
hi
on this code
x,y,z;
double R(){return--y?!z?y=R(),R(z=1):x*R():x;}
main(){
scanf("%d%d",&x,&y);
printf("%f\n",R());
}
i couldn't understand how double recursive function call works
y=R(),R(z=1) in one statement
it's a solution for this problem
https://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/5562/implement-hyperexponentiation-tetration-without-the-use-of
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
@Maatouq please format ty
@Maatouq Basically it evaluates y=R(), then returns R(z=1) I think
 
ATaco
ATaco
x,y,z;
double R(){return--y?!z?y=R(),R(z=1):x*R():x;}
main(){
	scanf("%d%d",&x,&y);
	printf("%f\n",R());
}
(Boop)
 
Pavel
Pavel
12:38 AM
How does that work, R isn't defined to take an int parameter.
So the call to R(z=1) can't work
 
ATaco
ATaco
C just forgets the passed parameter, the writer is using it to golf.
 
Pavel
Pavel
Oh right, I forgot C functions don't have defined parameters
 
El'endia Starman
El'endia Starman
1:04 AM
@HyperNeutrino 95 messages, apparently.
 
Pavel
Pavel
1:19 AM
@El'endiaStarman Is there a way to search by regex? I want to do a search for .*ಠ_+ಠ.*
 
ATaco
ATaco
 
New Main Posts
New Main Posts
0
Q: Lights out in more than 2 dimensions

user34432What this isn't A rehash of another challenge posted for solving Light's Out. What this is Light's out in 3D... or 4D, or 5D, or even 1D; you get the picture. So, what are the rules? Input You can choose to format your input however you wish. One example could be: number of dimensions, siz...

code-golf number
 
El'endia Starman
El'endia Starman
@Pavel PostgreSQL has three pattern matching functions. postgresql.org/docs/9.3/static/functions-matching.html
@ATaco That's the query to use when you want a ':P' anywhere in the message. The ones I linked look for messages that are literally just ':P'.
4 hours ago, by HyperNeutrino
I wonder how many messages of mine contain :P and only :P
 
ATaco
ATaco
Well isn't that better fitting? Posting just an emoticon is noise!
Oh... ;-;
 
Pavel
Pavel
^ Most frequent Kannadian face users
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
1:25 AM
@El'endiaStarman huh I'm surprised I'm not higher up :P But thanks for the stats! :D
 
ATaco
ATaco
That thing has a name?
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
huh apparently i'm seventh for ಠ_ಠ (watch this message push me to sixth)
 
Pavel
Pavel
Well ಠ is a letter of the Kanadian language
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
@ATaco It's called the look of disapproval
 
ATaco
ATaco
I wonder if you could graph the usage over time to pinpoint exactly when the TacoScript for it was released.
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
1:27 AM
@ATaco Yes you can
 
Pavel
Pavel
Probably, but that sounds too fancy
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
 
Pavel
Pavel
I don't know that much SQL/JS
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
You could possibly ask El'endia
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
@Pavel did someone say SQL/JS :P
@ATaco userscript-request: add user-friendly AM/PM timestamps to chat
 
ATaco
ATaco
1:30 AM
(Screams in local timezone)
 
El'endia Starman
El'endia Starman
There are a bunch of line graphs on the TNBDE useful queries page. You can modify one of those.
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
@El'endiaStarman speaking of TNBDE, I don't mean to sound pushy or anything, but is there a reason this PR has't been merged?
 
El'endia Starman
El'endia Starman
@Downgoat Yeah, laziness. :P
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
@Dennis @MartinEnder @DJMcMayham @Hyper Neutrino @Ascii-Only @ATaco @Downgoat @FunkyComputerMan any of you care if I mention you (in a positive way) for helping me on this website and coding in general? (common app college essay)
 
ATaco
ATaco
Sure, go for it.
 
Pavel
Pavel
1:39 AM
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ WheatWizard is now @FunkyComputerMan. Also, you added a space.
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Opps
That edit just pinged a bunch of people
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
I don't mind
 
Pavel
Pavel
Also in HyperNeutrino's name.
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Oh well
It still pings
 
Pavel
Pavel
Yep.
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
1:40 AM
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ yeah, that's fine
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
I just wanted to check since I don't want any issues
It is a pretty damn good essay already
 
ATaco
ATaco
Scream my name to the heavens as the coder who brought you light!
5
Or something like that I suppose.
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
253 words about PPCG on my 623 word essay
@ATaco brb screaming
 
Pavel
Pavel
CMC: Package Hack into an RPM and put the result on COPR.
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ I don't mind
reads chat
Haha everyone agreed with a different wording
 
Pavel
Pavel
1:46 AM
@ATaco I have pull requests for changing ChatJax delimiter to $$ and for fixing the /o_o bug, please respond.
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Not funky and you @ASCII-only
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ oh btw you misspelt DJ's name
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
@DJMcMayhem The super ping list
@ASCII-only rip
Can I get a few short snippets (working answers) of crazy esoteric code?
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ Anything on PPCG :P
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ I would say to add JSF or @ConorO'Brien obfuscated JS if this is for your apps
 
Pavel
Pavel
1:55 AM
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ Here: 
ṡ2EÐḟFs2ḣ€1S€ṡ3M€Fċ2
0;⁸;0Ç
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
@Pavel what does that even do
 
ATaco
ATaco
It makes me cry for starters.
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Now if only Dennis would step down so I could become mod (that would look great on my essay)
 
Pavel
Pavel
1
A: How many peaks in my mountain range?

ZacharýJelly, 27 bytes ṡ2EÐḟFs2ḣ€1S€ṡ3M€Fċ2 0;⁸;0Ç

Question: Is codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/143241/60042 valid IO? I understand the need for a C submission to take the size of an array as a parameter, but the output format seems odd to me.
 
ATaco
ATaco
Yep, C languages can take inputs as Pointers, and may take the size of an array as a parameter.
 
Pavel
Pavel
2:03 AM
I'm not talking about that
I mean the output
It requires a 4th input, an array that it populates.
 
ATaco
ATaco
(And may output through those pointers)
It seems valid to me.
 
Pavel
Pavel
I know that you can output by returning a modified version of the array, but this is different and to me it feels like the correct way to do that would be to return an int pointer.
Also, what is this "dynamic array" thing? I haven't heard of it. (Note that I am not a C person)
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
@Pavel lol C and dynamic
@Downgoat are you smart?
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
no
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
ok @ATaco are you smarter then him?
 
ATaco
ATaco
2:09 AM
Apparently
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
I want a 2nd opinion on my paper and want to know if you would read it XD
You just have to read it and say what you think (I have english teacher for grammar and such)
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
if your paper is on CS i can maybe be of use if it is on anything else I am useless
 
Dennis
Dennis
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ Sure, mention away. :)
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
@Dennis ty
Give it a shot
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ this is wrong link
you have to give the other one
it should be in yellow like /secret/randomhexdigits
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
2:13 AM
I am an idiot
@Downgoat that makes me saying it once XD
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
its' -> its in the KahnAcadamy sentences
 
Destructible Lemon
Destructible Lemon
@Downgoat muphry's law?
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
"Processing.js that was modified to make it simpler" -> "Processing.js, a language designed to make programming easier than usual." or something sentence kinda confusing at first
@DestructibleLemon yse
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ Yeah I'd be fine with that, though I don't recall having done anything to help? huh
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
also :D someone else who learned how to code w/ Processing.js
"Looking back I realize", missing comma after back
StackOverflow and StackExchange have spaces
I recommend defining code golf too
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
2:19 AM
(doesn't include spaces)
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
> One challenge only allowed characters that were not banned by the last answer and each answer banned another character. Quickly code became messes until somebody won using only the number eight 2.13 × 10705 times to print the text “‘Round up the usual suspects.’ - Capt. Louis Renault” (number 32 on the top 95 movies quotes of all time).
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
I remember reading a meta question asking whether golfers can make the challenge harder for themselves by adding additional stipulations, and the consensus was that they could. But I can't find the post. Does anybody know what it was?
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
I think you should re-word this or make it less specific. It's confusing to me
 
ATaco
ATaco
ComputerCraft did a lot to teach me how to code.
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
though I think otherwise is 10/10 essay, really shows your passion for programming
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
2:22 AM
wait link to essay
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
ah ok thanks
 
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
Christopher 2EZ 4RTZ
@Downgoat thanks for the help
I will add it all tmr
Downgoat is a good goat. pats on head
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
How should I give feedback for minor/major grammatical corrections / etc?
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
Yes math textbook, when I am driving I obviously solve quadratic equations to determine my stopping distance to the next car so I will not crash. Obviously using graphic utility will not cause that.
 
Conor O'Brien
Conor O'Brien
2:27 AM
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ "and I would like to thank (sniff) all of these wonderful people, comic book characters, hosts, weird computer men, tacos, and others (sniff) (sniff) for helping me create programs abominable to good programming practices"
10
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
how to calculate whether or not you will run into the car in front of you in 3 easy steps:

1. Encounter a situation where there is a car in front of you
2. Press the brakes suitably to avoid crashing
3. If this fails, then you have crashed into the car
@ConorO'Brien don't forget the subatomic particle :( nobody ever notices neutrinos
 
Conor O'Brien
Conor O'Brien
Notices what
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
>.>
 
DJMcMayhem
DJMcMayhem
@Christopher2EZ4RTZ I would not mind at all! I'd be honored :)
 
HyperNeutrino
HyperNeutrino
I am still wondering what I have done to help anyone though... I mean besides JHT I guess
anyway gtg o/
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
2:35 AM
@ConorO'Brien Why are there so many PPCG characters that are named after food? Wheat (that's not really a food, but still...), lemons, watermelons, tacos, etc.
I haven't tried a neutrino, but I've been told they're delicious
 
Conor O'Brien
Conor O'Brien
@Challenger5 lack of creativity? there's a lot of food-related golflangs too
 
Dennis
Dennis
There are?
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
@ConorO'Brien I can only think of Jelly and CJam right now
 
Conor O'Brien
Conor O'Brien
maybe not golflangs
ppcg langs
jelly cjam cheddar confiture (obscure fork of jelly with only like 2 commands) sesos (technically)
maybe not that many but its certainly a trend
 
Dennis
Dennis
Wait, confiture?
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
2:38 AM
Is it like a tacit tarpit?
 
Conor O'Brien
Conor O'Brien
it's not even TC iirc
I think it has addition and maybe something else
 
ATaco
ATaco
TacO
 
Dennis
Dennis
Update README.md, THIIIIING, THIIIIING2, alright, let's get rolling! sounds legit.
 
Conor O'Brien
Conor O'Brien
this except I forgot to try
but yeah the idea was to make a turing tarpit based on the evaluation style of jelly
then school started IIRC
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
2:56 AM
Thinking about it, it could be completely bitwise, with vectorizing NAND
 
Conor O'Brien
Conor O'Brien
I already have an esolang sorta like that
 
ATaco
ATaco
Of course, you can't talk bitwise langauges without talking bout Wise
 
Conor O'Brien
Conor O'Brien
we were until you mentioned it :P
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
3:22 AM
dumb questio: is floor(a) + floor(b) == floor(a + b)
 
Destructible Lemon
Destructible Lemon
I don't think so
1.6 and 1.6
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
ah yes duh >_<
 
Destructible Lemon
Destructible Lemon
it's ok
I still want to make a koth
 
ATaco
ATaco
But is round(a) + round(b) == round(a + b)?
 
El'endia Starman
El'endia Starman
Depends on how you round. I think.
 
ATaco
ATaco
3:29 AM
The answer is no, 1.3 and 1.3
 
El'endia Starman
El'endia Starman
Yeah, I just realized that.
 
ATaco
ATaco
(Where round is floor(n+0.5))
 
El'endia Starman
El'endia Starman
I was thinking of potential edge cases due to the IEEE standard (I think) that numbers that are exactly halfway between integers get rounded to the nearest even integer.
 
ATaco
ATaco
Floating point numbers are bullshit.
 
El'endia Starman
El'endia Starman
How might you implement them better?
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
3:31 AM
Not have NaN, negative 0, and all that other stuff.
 
quartata
quartata
Those have purposes
Very well defined ones at that
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
Explain to me what the purpose of NaN is as opposed to Infinity.
 
ATaco
ATaco
NaN may not have a sign, also, 1/0 isn't infinity, as much as javascript argues.
 
quartata
quartata
Errors and 0/0
 
ATaco
ATaco
It's also a nice Null number.
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
3:35 AM
Given that floating point handling is usually implemented at a very low level, I would have expected most invalid results to just return 0, and trust the user to deal with it (after all, this is how integer overflow and /0 is handled)
 
Destructible Lemon
Destructible Lemon
@El'endiaStarman 😡 this is not what they taught us at school
 
quartata
quartata
@Challenger5 and if the result is 0?
Also signaling NaNs are much better for error handling
 
ATaco
ATaco
@El'endiaStarman I can't but that doesn't mean they're good.
 
El'endia Starman
El'endia Starman
@DestructibleLemon I was taught that rounding rule in school a couple times. I don't normally use it though; I just round up.
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
@quartata Well, checked overflow is also good for error handling, but it's not done that way. Floating-point is going to be implemented at a very low level, so it needs to be simple
It has too many special cases, and the special cases it defines aren't even mathematically true
 
quartata
quartata
3:40 AM
I mean errors in user land where a float is to be returned
Also almost all architectures set a flag on overflow
 
ATaco
ATaco
Also, Javascript uses Doubles, not Floats.
IIRC, Floats don't handle Infinity & NaN.
 
quartata
quartata
They do
Also "keeping it as mathematically accurate to our arbitrary definitions of R as possible" is an argument for 0/0 = NaN
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
imo it's an argument for anything/0 = NaN
 
ATaco
ATaco
According to the scarce mathematics I know, anything/0 should equal NaN.
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
But in IEEE 754, positive/0 = ∞, negative/0 = -∞, and 0/0 = NaN
 
Destructible Lemon
Destructible Lemon
3:47 AM
anything/0 = 0.5
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
¿!?
 
quartata
quartata
The idea is that for all x != 0 lim x -> 0+ 1 / x = infinity
only exception is 0/0 since that's indeterminate
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
@quartata Yes but approaching the limit is different depending on whether you approach 0 from the positive or negative side
 
quartata
quartata
It's more convenient than an exception at low level at any rate, plus kinda fits with the approximate nature of floats
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
And approaching from one side or the other is a bit arbitrary
 
quartata
quartata
3:50 AM
That number could be close to 0 but result in Infinity
@Challenger5 Other side would be for signed zero is all
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
Sorry, but I don't understand what you mean by that.
 
quartata
quartata
note the + by the 0
That's a one sided limit
Other side is lim x -> 0- 1/x = negative infinity which is what negative zero is for
sorry for no latex
 
Destructible Lemon
Destructible Lemon
0*infinity = 0?
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
I don't know how to write math help :/
 
quartata
quartata
oh
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
3:56 AM
But why should approaching one direction or the other be dependent on whether the numerator is positive or negative?
 
quartata
quartata
I wrote that wrong
I meant for x to be in the numerator
for all x > 0 : lim y -> 0+ x/y = Infinity and lim y -> 0- x/y = -Infinity
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
In IEEE 754, (1 / 0 == Infinity) but (-1 / 0 == -Infinity)
 
Destructible Lemon
Destructible Lemon
noooooo
 
quartata
quartata
That's a good point
But at this point they kind of have to enforce consistency
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
TIL Chef esolang guy is Australian
 
quartata
quartata
3:58 AM
Since the sign of the denominator makes a difference
 
ASCII-only
ASCII-only
And also SROMG (and other related webcomics) guy too
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
(-1 / -0 == Infinity). WHY????
 
quartata
quartata
Negative number divided by very tiny negative number
It checks out
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
@quartata That's not true
It is only true for positive x
 
quartata
quartata
Can't see what you're replying to
Oh
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
4:00 AM
> for all x > 0 : lim y -> 0+ x/y = Infinity and lim y -> 0- x/y = -Infinity
 
Pavel
Pavel
@Challenger5 What about that doesn't make sense
 
quartata
quartata
x > 0 is right there I changed that after I realized the clause was dependent on the sign of the numerator and I didn't want to type it out
I'm on mobile guys cut me some slack
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
@Pavel The fact that (-1 / 0 == Infinity) but (-1 / -0 == -Infinity).
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
Oh I missed the change
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
If you told a mathematician, "in programming dividing by zero gives a result that is either positive or negative infinity, depending on the sign of the numerator and the sign of the zero," what would they think about you?
 
quartata
quartata
4:04 AM
They'd understand it if I defined it in terms of a new algebra and explained why that's convenient practically
Along with the limits above
Floats are inherently approximations of real numbers. Sacrifices must be made
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
I still don't see why signed zero and signed infinity are convenient practically.
 
quartata
quartata
Well signed infinity is most definitely a thing
As for signed zero:
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
Signed infinity might be a thing, but it's definitely not what you get from dividing by 0.
 
quartata
quartata
Signed zero
Signed zero is zero with an associated sign. In ordinary arithmetic, the number 0 does not have a sign, so that −0, +0 and 0 are identical. However, in computing, some number representations allow for the existence of two zeros, often denoted by −0 (negative zero) and +0 (positive zero), regarded as equal by the numerical comparison operations but with possible different behaviors in particular operations. This occurs in the sign and magnitude and ones' complement signed number representations for integers, and in most floating-point number representations. The number 0 is usually encoded as +0...
@Challenger5 But it's what you get when you divide a number very close to 0, which is common in floating point math due to error
Do you really want 1/0 to throw some bulky high level exception and then have 1/0.0000000001 return Infinity anyways (or even worse a giant imprecise number near the end of the floats)
 
Downgoat
Downgoat
@TuxCopter how to do title case in french? is it like L'indice de la Qualité de L'air?
 
ATaco
ATaco
4:11 AM
@quartata Yes. :P
 
quartata
quartata
Then I don't know what to say, go ahead and make your own standard
It's not easy
 
ATaco
ATaco
BRB rewriting modern computational mathematics.
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
I would still prefer if it just had NaN for "universal error" rather than having a bunch
of edge cases (±inf, NaN, etc.)
 
ATaco
ATaco
(I just wish Lua had an easier way to detect NaNs)
 
quartata
quartata
But infinity isn't really an error
Sometimes infinity is legit
 
ATaco
ATaco
4:15 AM
Infinity is nice if you want to compare it to other numbers, which may sound strange, but it has its purpose.
 
quartata
quartata
Also floats don't really overflow, throwing an "error" is kind of a weird concept IMO
@ATaco Another good point. That's what math.huge is if I'm not mistaken
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
Maybe, but inf should be "the number greater than all other numbers" rather than "the number you sometimes get when you divide by 0" or "the number that is returned on overflow"
 
quartata
quartata
Well it is the former too
Also signed zero should never really be seen unless you're working at a super low level
Or doing something hella weird
It usually works itself out
 
ATaco
ATaco
function getClosest(some_vector_table){
	max_distance = infinity;
	target = null;
	for(i=0; i < some_vector_table.length; i++){
		this_distance = sqrt(some_vector_table[i].x^2 + some_vector_table[i].y^2);
		if(this_distance < max_distance){
			max_distance = this_distance;
			target = some_vector_table[i];
		}
	}
	return target;
}
Yay, a practical use for infinity!
 
quartata
quartata
Lua does use math.huge right
I couldn't remember
 
ATaco
ATaco
4:18 AM
Yeah, math.huge is infinity.
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
@ATaco If that's JS, I don't think it works; Infinity is capitalized
 
ATaco
ATaco
But it doesn't let you work with -0.
Also, it's just generic code, no particular language.
(And you probably shouldn't use sqrt for best speeds)
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
That reminds me of 0x5f3759df
 
ATaco
ATaco
We don't need sqrt because a > b == a^2 > b^2
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
@FunkyComputerMan I am now using your amazing icon for my one of my school accounts.
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
4:29 AM
@Challenger5 The icon is actually taken from my schools information system which despite its appearance of having been forgotten in the 90s was just redesigned this year.
 
Destructible Lemon
Destructible Lemon
is that... legal? /s
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
to have a crappy website? yes
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
Redesigning the site, or propagating the icon?
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
The website also has a rather large security issue I won't point out
 
Destructible Lemon
Destructible Lemon
@Challenger5 well I know Dennis would not do an illegal thing
probably
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
4:31 AM
@DestructibleLemon O RLY?
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
Can C output to STDOUT without any preprocessor directives?
 
Destructible Lemon
Destructible Lemon
@Challenger5 😧
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
@FunkyComputerMan Do you count compilers that #include <stdio.h> if you use IO functions without declaring them?
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
No I'm talking about the C standard not any specific compilers
 
ATaco
ATaco
I don't think it's part of the standard.
Actually, I don't think C has any native support for STDOUT.
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
4:36 AM
Ok that is unfortunate
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
But how can the preprocessor add features to a language? That doesn't make sense...
Is <stdio.h> written for every platform?
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
Maybe I should actually ask a SO question (shudders)
 
ATaco
ATaco
I don't know enough about C to answer that, unfortunately.
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
@FunkyComputerMan Nah, a question that useful would probably be closed.
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
That seems like a rather unuseful question as a whole
you can usually use preprocessor directives.
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
4:41 AM
But the explanation of why would probably go into a substantial amount of detail about platform-specific IO and how it interacts with the standard.
 
ATaco
ATaco
C doesn't have explicit stdio.h definitions because it's designed to compile to a wide variety of architecture, some of which have no support for that form of IO.
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
Ok I guess that makes sense
so stdio.h must not be written in C then
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
Not in standard-compliant C
 
ATaco
ATaco
It's my assumption that it makes direct CPU calls, rather than just does C things.
Or, I suppose, OS calls.
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
Ok this is all reather unfortunate
or fortunate
depends on how I look at it I guess
 
quartata
quartata
4:45 AM
Not sure what you mean stdio.h isn't defined in C
 
ATaco
ATaco
C is a rather beautiful language for something made out of spite and excitable devs.
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
Oh?
 
Challenger5
Challenger5
Spite? What spite?
 
quartata
quartata
GCC is just lazy and only throws a warning if you use it without the prototypes from the header
It still gets linked in from libc so it doesn't care
 
ATaco
ATaco
Spite for B, the interpreted language of choice prior.
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
4:47 AM
@quartata Do you know if that is compliant with the C standards?
 
quartata
quartata
Probably not but you can declare the prototype yourself
Just copy whatever hellish one it declares for printf
It'll resolve
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
Ok. I don't think I'm good enough at C for this right now
I'll come back to this later
 
Anonymous
@Challenger5 No. stdio.h usually has all of the standard declarations, some of which are enabled or disabled by preprocessor macros based on the definitions exported by your system or the configuration of your compiler. It doesn't actually contain the code for those functions - that's in libc (or glibc, or whatever C runtime you use).
 
quartata
quartata
Look for extern blah blah blah printf(blah blah
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
@quartata Oh yeah I found it, it just is, as you said, "hellish"
 
Anonymous
4:50 AM
You can declare printf without including stdio.h, but you have to get it right (or close enough)
 
Anonymous
 
quartata
quartata
Close enough
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
How does this even work
I'm very confused
 
quartata
quartata
That's a forward declaration in essence
Except instead of being in your code the function is in a library
glibc
Which is implicitly linked by default
 
ATaco
ATaco
 
Anonymous
4:52 AM
@ATaco extern is pointless with a single compilation unit
 
ATaco
ATaco
(Screams in C)
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
@quartata Oh so if we did not link glibc it wouldn't print
 
Anonymous
@FunkyComputerMan If you didn't link glibc, it wouldn't do much of anything :P
 
quartata
quartata
It would compile but not link
Try it with -ffreestanding
This is all basically because C compiles to individual object files and then links all of the references to other files later
It's for saving memory
only need to compile one at a time
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
@Mego Really how much of C is in the standard library?
 
quartata
quartata
4:56 AM
Just functions really
 
Anonymous
@FunkyComputerMan Anything that you don't write yourself.
 
quartata
quartata
Like all the core language constructs except for variable arguments work freestanding
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
Ok this is good
 
quartata
quartata
C++ though needs the standard library for exceptions and RTTI
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
are there any types without the standard library?
 
quartata
quartata
4:57 AM
Hm?
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
Is the int type part of the standard library?
 
quartata
quartata
No. But technically uint8_t and what not aren't defined without an include but those are compile time macros
Are you writing a kernel or something
 
Funky Computer Man
Funky Computer Man
Hm I seem to get a segfault when I try to remove the standard library
 
quartata
quartata
What code
Oh
That's because you need to bootstrap calling main I think?
 
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