The Nineteenth Byte

12:02 AM

HL2 was better than the episodes.

Episodes were still good, but not as good.

ok; upon further reflection, I couldn't actually remember if HL2 was distinct from HL2 episode 1. But, if it is, then throw episode 1 in the list. I did enjoy HL2

Eric Tressler

12:23 AM

Is anyone here a professional/hobbyist software developer?

ASCII-only

Software developer? What counts?

totallyhuman

we're all hobbyist code-writers :P

Downgoat

CMC: write short polynomial simplification program for TI84+

Conor O'Brien

... >.>

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman But how many of us are software devs :P

Conor O'Brien

12:25 AM

don't want to study for a test?

ASCII-only

@Downgoat +C?

Conor O'Brien

color edition

ASCII-only

:/ Don't have one of those

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only define that

Eric Tressler

I don't know what counts. I wrote a game and I was looking at trying to integrate it with Steam, and at business licenses and all of this garbage, and it makes me want to weep

Conor O'Brien

12:25 AM

it's the same as 84+

Downgoat

I just need for test

ASCII-only

Okay brb

Eric Tressler

I was hoping someone might have some advice. :)

Conor O'Brien

@DJMcMayhem I've learned some stuff about real-life language through this site

ASCII-only

I mean I've only used CASIO BASIC, but I've used it so much that I could probably write in TI-BASIC just fine

Conor O'Brien

12:26 AM

@Downgoat to include polynomial expansion? e.g. (x+2)^2

Downgoat

(x+2)^2 should become (x+2)(x+2)

ASCII-only

@EricTressler :/ I don't think many software devs integrate things with Steam

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat not x^2+4x+4?

Downgoat

nah

totallyhuman

$x^2 + 4x + 4$ use latex not monospace for math :P

Conor O'Brien

12:28 AM

@totallyhuman ...? it doesn't work in chat

Eric Tressler

@ASCII-only yeah, I figured, but maybe someone has been through some kind of release cycle.

totallyhuman

it's a tacoscript

Conor O'Brien

oh, sorry, let me rewrite what I do to appease a niche arrangement of people who use that userscript >.<

totallyhuman

fine :P

Downgoat

@ConorO'Brien you should get tactoscript is 10/10 very sueful

totallyhuman

12:30 AM

> very sueful

ASCII-only

@Downgoat Does it have to simplify that too ^^^^

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat the last time I did that people could see when I was typing and I was able to abuse that

totallyhuman

ono am i gonna get sued by userscript

Downgoat

@ASCII-only nah.

ASCII-only

@ConorO'Brien Not that one then lol

totallyhuman

12:30 AM

@ConorO'Brien that was fixed a long time ago

Downgoat

actually what would be better is rationalizer e.g:

ASCII-only

Also you can't abuse anymore

Conor O'Brien

I bet I can still break it

ASCII-only

@Downgoat Then what do you want it to simplify

@ConorO'Brien Yes you can, but not as badly

Downgoat

@ATaco how do I do a ataco/generator with new mathquill update

/$ don't work

totallyhuman

12:31 AM

...also I am typing userscript is different from mathjax userscript

ASCII-only

Plus it gets kinda obvious when someone is typing but never posts messages

@Downgoat You don't

Downgoat

@ATaco why remove feature?

/$\sqrt{\sqrt{243(x+5)}}\rightarrow3\sqrt{\sqrt{3}\sqrt{x+5}}$

:(

omy is taco generator broken?

totallyhuman

ASCII-only

@Downgoat Is not remove, mathquill just break

totallyhuman

oh nvm i didn't update

Downgoat

12:35 AM

weird all chat commands aren't working

ASCII-only

working for me

totallyhuman

what

how do you get it like that

ASCII-only

SE chat mods

totallyhuman

link? (not link)

Downgoat

Question: how to type infinty symbol into desmos

Conor O'Brien

12:46 AM

\infty

nvm they fixed that bug

Downgoat

desmos doesn't do latex?

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman link

Conor O'Brien

@Downgoat oh it used to

Downgoat

how to do infinite integrals then?

ASCII-only

@Downgoat you can't just type "infinity"?

totallyhuman

12:47 AM

@ASCII-only ಠ_ಠ

ASCII-only

But why do you even need it

Downgoat

@ASCII-only no

16 secs ago, by Downgoat

how to do infinite integrals then?

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman Google exist

Conor O'Brien

use a sufficiently large integer

ASCII-only

@Downgoat just integrate <foo>

Hang on it shouldn't be hard

Downgoat

12:48 AM

@ASCII-only can u pls link to working example?

ATaco

@Downgoat it's a bug, will fix tommorow, doing birthday things today

Downgoat

@ATaco :O Happy Birthday Mr. Taco!

ATaco

🎉

Conor O'Brien

@ATaco merry <insert subject's age>!

ATaco

20!

ASCII-only

12:49 AM

62

Q: SE Chat Modifications -- Keyboard navigation and commands for chat

Screenshot Use /command shortcuts to perform common chat tasks: See message history inline: Easily preview replied-to messages: And much, much more... About Legends tell of a prolific Meta Stack Overflow chatter who despised using their mouse above all things. In an effort to keep t...

Downgoat

Conor O'Brien

@ATaco merry 2432902008176640000 !

ATaco

Oh my gosh that's a birthday taco!

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only thenk

ASCII-only

@Downgoat nvm. moral of the story: desmos is completely terrible and does no things

Just use the Geogebra web app

Downgoat

12:54 AM

ikr

ohey my math teacher use geogebra

ASCII-only

wait hang on

desmos.com/calculator/qe3oz5doit

Here we go yay

Downgoat

@ASCII-only wait why is geogebra syntax o soerd

Conor O'Brien

@ASCII-only desmos is good ;-;

ASCII-only

@Downgoat How

Yes just realized I was stupid, it works perfectly fine

@Downgoat btw what do you want to work on the TI

Downgoat

Is this like 0 or what

I haven't taken a calculus course yet

Conor O'Brien

12:57 AM

wolfram alpha is your friend

Downgoat

;_; idk how to type integral into wolfram

... wolfram says result is $\infty\sin\left(x\right)$

Conor O'Brien

it's calculating the integral of dx as if it were two variables

Downgoat

ok wolfgram is not able to undestand

it's converting sin(x) -> x

ASCII-only

wolframalpha.com/input/?i=integral+of+sin+x+from+0+to+infinity

No?

Downgoat

wat 0/10 can't be non-converging

brb plotting

Eric Tressler

1:04 AM

that integral is undefined

ASCII-only

What?

How can't it be non-converging

Eric Tressler

improper integrals are only defined if the limit of the proper integrals exists, so that expression doesn't actually mean anything

ASCII-only

The integral always fluctuates from 2 to 0

Eric Tressler

because the integrals $\int_0^c \sin(x) dx$ oscillate as $c \to \infty$

Downgoat

because it goes from 2 -> -2 so value must be $-2 \le x\le2$ at any given time

ASCII-only

1:06 AM

@Downgoat 2 -> 0

Downgoat

@EricTressler o

wait isn't it $^-2\pi\ \rightarrow\ ^+2\pi$

totallyhuman

is it a good idea to have a custom code page to align with ASCII

Eric Tressler

@Downgoat what?

I don't understand what you're asking

Downgoat

was talk to @ASCII-only

@totallyhuman yes of course

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman Yes

totallyhuman

1:09 AM

why?

ASCII-only

It's what pretty much every custom code page does

And so you can still have strings

I mean I guess you don't have to

@totallyhuman Okay how will you gain an advantage from not aligning with ASCII

totallyhuman

ಠ_ಠ don't answer with a question :P

i don't see disadvantages but i don't see advantages either

Downgoat

@totallyhuman well unless you like people seeing ƥĹĤƮɸȇÀbʑ̴ÀǌϗÈ®¾Є˖Ú as ur code

Eric Tressler

I'm lost; under what circumstances/for what should I be making a custom code page? When developing software? A web site?

Downgoat

I assume golfalng

Eric Tressler

1:18 AM

oh, good. If you only knew how often I find out that the way I've been doing something my whole life is substandard :|

New Main Posts

-1

Q: Algorithm of getting median from counting sort

I can't understand the logic behind getMedian method. How exactly median is evaluated, what is the connection between count of elements and sum of elements? Appreciate if someone could explain it's logic. public static void main(String[] args) { Random r = new Random(); ...

math sorting

Pavel

UTF-8 or UTF-16 should be used in all contexts other than golfing, where UTF-8 is preferable.

I suppose there are some contexts where 16 should be used.

Conor O'Brien

1:37 AM

CMC: given a number N and a list of K integers, output the corresponding characters of the first N of those K integers (with N <= K)

Dennis

@ASCII-only Jelly's doesnt. Linefeed is 0x7F.

@EricTressler It's also useful when you travel back in time. Non-ASCII support was a mess before Unicode and UTF-8.

Eric Tressler

@Dennis I read some things about that; I think Joel Spolsky? has some good things about it on his blog

Yeah, here joelonsoftware.com/2003/10/08/…

That was a very good article, especially since I came into it pretty clueless about unicode.

totallyhuman

i've aligned newline and everything from ! to ~

...also i'm stealing jelly dotted letters...

there's a minus-plus sign? ∓ o0

Eric Tressler

1:52 AM

@totallyhuman it's used when you want to indicate something is minus or plus, respectively, when you've already used \pm

like (a ± b) = -(b ∓ a)... the second one shouldn't be b ± a, because the second one is - when the first one is + and vice versa

er, i lost a couple of minus signs in there. that equation isn't true, but you get the point hopefully

Wheat Wizard

I'm still a good deal confused as to why my latest question is receiving downvotes. I asked earlier but I thought I'd ask again because it has received a number of downvotes since.

ASCII-only

@Dennis Well almost ASCII-compatible I guess?

@totallyhuman wat

totallyhuman

2:10 AM

@ASCII-only ;-; look man i didn't write stuff well ;-;

what do you want to do with commata

ASCII-only

Quine

Downgoat

@Dennis though I assume A-Za-z are aligned?

ASCII-only

Also # is in wiki but errors wat

@Downgoat Yeah all printables except for linefeed IIRC

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only that was changed to sigma

for sum

Downgoat

@ASCII-only line feed isn't printable :P

ASCII-only

2:12 AM

So close

@Downgoat Then all printables I think

Yay

@totallyhuman Does Commata use UTF or SBCS

Never mind

@totallyhuman can you pls golf ty

Dennis

@ASCII-only What on Earth is going on there?

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only oh nice

ASCII-only

@Dennis this

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only utf 'cause i never implemented the darn code page

Dennis

@ASCII-only That looks like xkcd's type casting.

ASCII-only

2:17 AM

@totallyhuman Pls try doing random things to try and golf it :P

totallyhuman

;-; why is my lang being roasted

@ASCII-only trying

Downgoat

@totallyhuman whats ur language

totallyhuman

but i don't think much can be golfed off

@Downgoat ,,, (commata)

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman Because it's bad

Downgoat

commata? more like dumbata :P

ikr roasted :P

ASCII-only

2:19 AM

It's like you spent like 5 minutes on it

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only ಠ_ಠ

Dennis

@totallyhuman Well, limiting your language to one string per program is a rather odd design choice.

totallyhuman

@Dennis it wasn't a choice :P

Eric Tressler

especially if it's a fixed string

Dennis

@totallyhuman Hence the roast. :P

Downgoat

2:21 AM

btw @Dennis since you're here, can you unfreeze the cheddar room: chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/37686/cheddar

ASCII-only

But. How can it have such a golfy quine D:

Dennis

@Downgoat stilltasty.com/questions/index/135/page:1

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only (▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿)

anyways the quine's abusing the bugs

ASCII-only

Yes, because it has to lol

totallyhuman

darn 6 empty code page spots

@ASCII-only it probably borked when i hackily introduced unclosed strings

after which i stopped using it so...

quartata

2:26 AM

Doorknob's not pingable, hope he's safe from the hurricane

:/

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman ...

Helka Homba

Can anyone access cbsnews.com/live ?

totallyhuman

i realized how big of a piece of doodoo it was :P

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman -1 why is it still on TIO

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only it never was supposed to be on TIO

pavel wanted it on TIO so it was on TIO

poof like magic

ASCII-only

2:32 AM

@Pavel why

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only ...there are bigger pieces of crap on TIO

ASCII-only

Like?

Pavel

I wanted to try it and I didn't want to download the interpreter.

ASCII-only

@Pavel ...

Pavel

@ASCII-only The language "spaced" is literally 3 lines of javascript.

totallyhuman

2:33 AM

4

ASCII-only

@Pavel But it works, you can acutally have more than one string in it :O

@totallyhuman 3

Eric Tressler

@HelkaHomba no

Pavel

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

ASCII-only

I mean sure it's 3 lines

but it's a genius idea IMO

Dennis

@ASCII-only I want to try X, but not install it on my machine is pretty much TIO's raison d'être.

Helka Homba

2:34 AM

Is there any program out there this community can't make 3 lines? :P (or 1)

ASCII-only

@Dennis yes but commata barely even works >_>

totallyhuman

python

ASCII-only

@HelkaHomba Nope

@totallyhuman That's easy to make three lines

totallyhuman

not with loops in it

ASCII-only

If course with loops

List comprehensions are a thing

Dennis

2:35 AM

@ASCII-only See? You wouldn't know that if it wasn't on TIO. :P

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only ...how are you going to stick a while loop into a listcomp

ASCII-only

Infinite iterators

Not sure how easy it is but should be possible

@totallyhuman docs.python.org/2/library/itertools.html#itertools.repeat

Pavel

My language Preproc can't seem to wrap its head around StdIn input, but fortunatly it works on TIO since on TIO all i/o is file i/o.

ASCII-only

Magic right

totallyhuman

ಠ_ಠ

classes, loops, functions, try/excepts...

ASCII-only

2:38 AM

Classes aren't needed

And they can be created too...

Pavel

You shouldn't need try/excepts in golf.

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman pls give example program, I can make it one line

Dennis

@Pavel I'm actually in a weird situation with Preproc: it fails the self test on the main server, but it works on the arenas.

totallyhuman

@ASCII-only golf commata's code /troll

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman like one written in Python

totallyhuman

2:39 AM

@ASCII-only commata is written in python

ASCII-only

Oh

didn't see the 's there

Helka Homba

CMC: Rewrite this python program in one line

x = input()
while x != 42:
  print(x)
  x = input()

Pavel

@Dennis Yeah I have some weird issues with it, gcc doesn't seem to like -o /dev/stdout

ASCII-only

@totallyhuman Also in no way is making something a oneliner golfing

@HelkaHomba Python 2?

Helka Homba

2 or 3

Pavel

2:40 AM

while print(input()):pass works I think.

But I'm not sure

ppperry

nope, that doesn't work

ASCII-only

But input is never a number in Python 3

ppperry

so, it must be Python 2 then

Pavel

Wait nevermind

Helka Homba

you can use int(input())

Pavel

2:42 AM

Ruby: break if $_=='42', uses -p flag.

ppperry

my previous method doesn't work

ASCII-only

@HelkaHomba Done

@HelkaHomba Python 3, golfier

Pavel

@ASCII-only Doesn't work

ASCII-only

Oh crap

Wheat Wizard

@HelkaHomba 54 bytes

ASCII-only

2:45 AM

That works I guess lol

Dennis

@HelkaHomba So, the input will always consist of integers?

Helka Homba

@Dennis you can assume that, sure

@WheatWizard cheeky

Dennis

@HelkaHomba tio.run/##BcFBCoAgEADAu6/…

isaacg

@HelkaHomba Try it online! 42 bytes

Wheat Wizard

That one is clever. You can save a byte by removing a space though

isaacg

2:51 AM

Darn, 41 bytes

Dennis

Comparing with [42] saves one more byte.

isaacg

Very nice.

Dennis

33 bytes with errors.

ppperry

that's what I don't like about codegolf sometimes; it makes things terribly hacky and work with crazy bugs.

Wheat Wizard

That's the good part of code-golf

Dennis

2:55 AM

With restrictions like only one line allowed, what else would you reasonably expect?

Pavel

How does {input()}-{42} work?

Dennis

Set difference.

Pavel

As I understand it, {} is for hashmaps.

Ah

Wheat Wizard

min can't take an empty set

Helka Homba

You'd think it might give None

Dennis

2:57 AM

@Pavel {} is a dict, {0} is a set, and {0:0} is a dict. Not at all confusing.

Pavel

So how do you get an empty set?

Releated CMC, Why?

set()

...duh

@HelkaHomba That would be confusing, at least in Python 2. tio.run/##K6gsycjPM/r/v6AoM69EITczT8MvPy9VR8FIR8FYR8FE8/9/AA

Wheat Wizard

2:59 AM

Option type

In programming languages (more so functional programming languages) and type theory, an option type or maybe type is a polymorphic type that represents encapsulation of an optional value; e.g., it is used as the return type of functions which may or may not return a meaningful value when they are applied. It consists of a constructor which either is empty (named None or Nothing), or which encapsulates the original data type A (written Just A or Some A). Outside of functional programming, these are termed nullable types. == Names and definitions == In different programming languages, the option...

That would be a sensible solution to the problem

Helka Homba

@Dennis that's already confusing

Dennis

@WheatWizard Guessing: < (strict subset of) is always false for {0} and {1}?

Pavel

ಠ_ಠ tio.run/##K6gsycjPM/r/…

ASCII-only

@WheatWizard Why

Dennis

@Pavel Try uppercasing None.

Wheat Wizard

3:00 AM

@Dennis Yep you got it.

Pavel

@Dennis I tried it, and it's still ಠ_ಠ-worthy.

ASCII-only

@Anyone I need a 3var quine

Dennis

@Pavel Everything about Python 2 is ಠ_ಠ-worthy. Use Python 3 instead.

6

Pavel

I chose to use Ruby instead.

ASCII-only

Correction: I need every quine not here

Helka Homba

3:03 AM

Ruby is ಠ_. worthy

Wheat Wizard

ruby has some weirdness too. No language is without it.

Pavel

Wat:

Pavel@DESKTOP-CRBHFJN MINGW32 ~/git/Triangul8
$ irb
irb(main):001:0> def method_missing(*args)
irb(main):002:1> args.join(' ')
irb(main):003:1> end
=> :method_missing
Segmentation fault

ASCII-only

@Pavel Raise a NoMethodError at the end

:P

Pavel

10 points to whoever figures out why that segfaults

It crashes the interpreter immediatly, it doesn't even prompt for more input.

ASCII-only

C:/tools/ruby23/lib/ruby/site_ruby/2.3.0/readline.rb:50:in `rescue in readline': stack level too deep (SystemStackError)
        from C:/tools/ruby23/lib/ruby/site_ruby/2.3.0/readline.rb:44:in `readline'
        from C:/tools/ruby23/lib/ruby/2.3.0/irb/input-method.rb:151:in `gets'
        from C:/tools/ruby23/lib/ruby/2.3.0/irb.rb:469:in `block (2 levels) in eval_input'
        from C:/tools/ruby23/lib/ruby/2.3.0/irb.rb:623:in `signal_status'
        from C:/tools/ruby23/lib/ruby/2.3.0/irb.rb:468:in `block in eval_input'

I don't get that crash

Pavel

3:11 AM

Odd

^^^ is what I get on TIO, too.

ASCII-only

@Pavel What version

Pavel

Pavel@DESKTOP-CRBHFJN MINGW32 ~/git/Triangul8
$ irb --version
irb 0.9.6(09/06/30)

wat

Oh here we go:

Pavel@DESKTOP-CRBHFJN MINGW32 ~/git/Triangul8
$ ruby --version
ruby 2.4.1p111 (2017-03-22 revision 58053) [x64-mingw32]

ASCII-only

I'm using 2.3.3

Also weird it's overriding String#to_hash

Pavel

Huh

ASCII-only

BTW I suspect args#join doesn't exist

Hence the recursion error

Pavel

3:15 AM

It should, I copied the snippet from a fairly recent video I watched.

What it should do is make it so you can type whatever symbols and it will join them into a string by spaces.

ASCII-only

@Pavel hacky :P

Yeah args.join doesn't exist

totallyhuman

Wow, so impressive, a language made for golfing gets a short answer. — Harrichael 7 hours ago

ASCII-only

Wait idk

Pavel

@ASCII-only Watch destroyallsoftware.com/talks/wat, it demonstrates the behaviour I'm looking for and also pokes fun at JavaScript, which is always a good thing.

ASCII-only

C:\Users\me>irb
irb(main):001:0> def method_missing(*args)
irb(main):002:1> p args.class
irb(main):003:1> raise NoMethodError,"lol"
irb(main):004:1> end
=> :method_missing
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array
Array

Pavel

3:23 AM

Does it trail off indefinetly?

ASCII-only

Yes

Pavel

I am completely confused right now.

ASCII-only

All of those are String#to_hash :/

Pavel

And the error is never actually raised ???

ASCII-only

Nope

I can get it to raise in other situations

Pavel

3:26 AM

Basically, definining method_missing with varargs is a terrible idea.

ASCII-only

@Pavel Do they do it in irb

Pavel

Yes

Pavel@DESKTOP-CRBHFJN MINGW32 ~/git/Triangul8
$ irb
irb(main):001:0> def method_missing; puts 'foo'; end
=> :method_missing
(irb):1:in `method_missing': wrong number of arguments (given 1, expected 0) (ArgumentError)
        from C:/Ruby24-x64/lib/ruby/2.4.0/irb/ext/save-history.rb:90:in `stat'
        from C:/Ruby24-x64/lib/ruby/2.4.0/irb/ext/save-history.rb:90:in `save_history'
        from C:/Ruby24-x64/lib/ruby/2.4.0/irb/ext/save-history.rb:64:in `block in extended'
        from C:/Ruby24-x64/lib/ruby/2.4.0/irb.rb:433:in `block in run'

Eric Tressler

@ASCII-only posting complete lyrics to the Array song

Pavel

Notice how it crashes irb, not just prompt me for more input after yielding an error.

method_missing is fucking weird.

ASCII-only

@Pavel Yes because it breaks methods vital for the REPL

@Pavel No it isn't

It's just that the REPL is really hacky

quartata

3:31 AM

Well, the IRB is written in Ruby

Pavel

Please provide an example of method_missing working successfully, I can't come up with one.

quartata

method_missing is how goruby works I believe

2

A: Tips for golfing in Ruby

Use Goruby instead of Ruby, which is something like an abbreviated version of Ruby. You can install it with rvm via rvm install goruby Goruby allows you to write most of your code as you would be writing Ruby, but has additional abbreviations built in. To find out the shortest available abbrev...

Pavel

Ruby repl: ruby -en 'p eval $_'

quartata

ruby.janlelis.de/…

scroll down for method_missing override

ASCII-only

Oops forgot Ruby had global variable sigils

irb(main):006:0> def method_missing(*args)
irb(main):007:1> raise NoMethodError,[self,args]unless self==@main
irb(main):008:1> args
irb(main):009:1> end
=> :method_missing
irb(main):010:0> foo bar
C:/tools/ruby23/lib/ruby/2.3.0/irb/ruby-token.rb:91:in `Token': uninitialized constant RubyToken::TkSymbol2TokenNoKey (NameError)
Did you mean?  RubyToken::TkSymbol2Token
        from C:/tools/ruby23/lib/ruby/2.3.0/irb/ruby-lex.rb:832:in `identify_identifier'
        from C:/tools/ruby23/lib/ruby/2.3.0/irb/ruby-lex.rb:715:in `block in lex_int2'

Great

oh also irb(main):001:0> main=self

Conor O'Brien

3:45 AM

Semi-colons throughout programming languages, as depicted by reddit

ASCII-only

:/

Pavel

>_< can't people just use imgur

I mean it doesn't matter, but I have strong opinions about it anyway.

Transcript for