The Nineteenth Byte - 2017-05-01 (page 1 of 5)

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12:00 AM

@ConorO'Brien We also got a request from a customer to allow (further) overloading of existing symbols.

@ComradeSparklePony Not really, no. You'd have to have very operation you'll do planned out before you start.

12:17 AM

@HelkaHomba that needs to be a thing if it isn't already

0

Q: May the first be with you

Write a program to replace all occurrences of "force" with "first" and all occurrences of "first" with "force", keeping the original case for all character positions: Force → First and First → Force foRce → fiRst and fiRst → foRce fOrcE → fIrsT and fIrsT → fOrcE etc. The rest of the string mu...

code-golf string

New Bounties With No Deadlines

12:36 AM

0

A: List of bounties with no deadline

50 Rep for a quine in Newline Newline is my personal eso-lang wrote for a challenge and should be TC. I will give 50 rep for a quine in Newline. Specs can be found on the link provided and here

Destructible Lemon

1:00 AM

challenge idea: program which prints its index in the library of babel

actually, is such a program guaranteed to exist (for a given language)?

@DestructibleLemon For any TC language with sufficient output capabilities

Can anyone scroll with mouse scroll wheel on minecraft.gamepedia.com/Map ? It's broken for me

Destructible Lemon

@WheatWizard I'm not sure

@DestructibleLemon It is a theorem

Destructible Lemon

first off you need to know the algorithm, which it may or may not be open source

second of all the algorithm might be more than the char limit

actually for a given language it is not because unicode

1:09 AM

It will exist regardless of whether or not you know the algorithm

Destructible Lemon

@WheatWizard not true. it might be that all programs don't exist at the point they print

@DestructibleLemon What?

@HelkaHomba I can scroll perfectly fine

Destructible Lemon

@WheatWizard talking about the library of babel

@ETHproductions Thanks :/

Destructible Lemon

1:11 AM

(did you not know what the library of babel is?)

Yes I don't understand your statement

Destructible Lemon

libraryofbabel.info

I know what it is I just can't parse what you said

@HelkaHomba You can scroll perfectly fine on other pages, and on other pages on that website, I assume?

If so, I have no idea what's wrong. If not, I probably have no idea either :P

Destructible Lemon

@WheatWizard what I mean is, is that it might be that you have a bunch of programs that print a library of babel index, but that none of them print their own

1:13 AM

yeah, scrolling elsewhere except that domain is fine. I should restart chrome but I have a groove going

Destructible Lemon

I would say that it is not guaranteed due to the character limit

@DestructibleLemon There exists a program that will print its library of babel index in every language that is TC and can ouptut numbers

Destructible Lemon

@WheatWizard is there a tc lang in 3400 chars?

trivially disproven

sorry

So TIL that my dad's brother has been avoiding jury duty for 25+ years by claiming he's a college student >_>

Now I'm confused where is this limit coming from?

Destructible Lemon

1:15 AM

the size of pages

I thought by index you meant the index of the page the code started on

that is that the code could bleed over into other pages

@ETHproductions I've been avoiding jury jury duty for 32 years by not being from the US. :P

Even with the 3400 character limit it will be possible in most languages

Destructible Lemon

@WheatWizard I don't think the library necessarily contains all books

It does

Destructible Lemon

1:17 AM

@WheatWizard you don't know that. please make a constructive proof :P

@WheatWizard contains all pages

@DestructibleLemon You are right there is a limit, but its 1,312,000 characters

which is a tad bigger

Destructible Lemon

@WheatWizard I think that the algorithm does not necessarily prevent the same books from occurring again and again, but not all of the books being generated

however it does generate all pages probably

According to them every combination of less than 1312000 is in the library

Destructible Lemon

link pls?

@DestructibleLemon libraryofbabel.info/About.html

Destructible Lemon

1:22 AM

@WheatWizard ah, that refers to a fictional one, I believe

possibly anyway

I am a little confused by their wording to be honest

Destructible Lemon

I agree

regardless of the limit it will probably be possible in most languages that can be expressed with the right characters and output integers

Destructible Lemon

do you think this would be a good challenge?

(should include the restricted source tag though)

If there algorithm is open source it wouldn't be a bad challenge

IMO quine challenges are a bit overplayed in general

they end up being minor variations on a theme

Destructible Lemon

1:25 AM

> I would be the first to be disappointed if this site did not truly contain what it claims to: every possible page of 3200 characters

probably means that it doesn't contain every book

because I infer that that would be the greatest thing the library has, so it does not have every book

1:51 AM

CMC: given a list of integers, return the largest sublist of equal integers ([0,1,0,1,2,3,1] gives [1,1,1])

ĠLÞṪị

@Dennis wat is dat witchcraft

Are there Klein groups other than the Klein 4 group? I could imagine that the concept of the Klein 4 group could be extended to other powers of 2.

@LeakyNun Ġ groups indices by value, LÞ sorts by length, Ṫ gets the tail/last, and ị retrieves the values at those indices.

Thanks

you should make a max/min quick

wat u gonna do after sorting them anyway

2:06 AM

wat. I was kind of just messing around, expected a syntax error, but what I got was really weird.

The argument is interpreted as a string

@Dennis That works too, I suppose

You can't get a syntax error from a bad argument

The Klein 4 group is represented with $K_4$ so it should be that there are other Ks

I thought Jelly's input was eval'd first, so it can tell the difference between a string and a list

tio.run/nexus/jelly#@////3@ltPx8JQA notice foo is printed and not "foo"

2:09 AM

If the eval fails, then it becomes a string

@ETHproductions I had no issues so far.

oic

quotes are not printed in the output

Jelly is a weird and amazing language.

@Dennis my python 3 solution is 48 bytes, can you beat me?

2:18 AM

wow, Dennis has 3 less rep than Martin

4 hours ago, by Dennis

user image

I saw that, congrats!

Clearly we have to downvote Martin Ender twice :P

@Dennis How often do you reach the repcap, anyway?

Not as often as I used to. When I tried (and failed) to be Martin to Legendary, I managed to rep cap 27 times in a month iirc.

You were 10 days behind? FeelsBadMan

2:27 AM

@Adám where is "here"?

Quick question: I am going to have some secret data for a challenge that I was to keep secret for the first week. How should I hash it so people know I haven't changed it?

@WheatWizard just use sha-512 or whatnot

Nah, SHA-1 should be fine...

@LeakyNun What is that? The wikipedia page is incomprehensible

you shauld use sha-4096 :P

2:29 AM

@WheatWizard tio.run/nexus/bash#@1@ckWhqaFRcmvv/f0hGZrECEJWlFlUqFKcmF6WW6AEA

but then you could see the cache >.>

Thanks!

@ConorO'Brien I could disable cache

that's true

@WheatWizard Still stored for the next time it's run without cache off

@WheatWizard it converts a string to another string which is computationally impossible to retrieve the original string

you can know that a converts to b, but if you only have b, you can't find a back

2:31 AM

@ConorO'Brien So? The hash will be public, so everyone with a working sha512sum implementation can brute-force it.

@LeakyNun Thats what a hash is right?

yes

@Dennis right but the input is cached with the output right?

Is SHA-512 SHA-3?

No.

2:32 AM

I can just get bash and run it locally

Yes

@ConorO'Brien What do you mean by cached? The input isn't stored on the server.

@Phoenix SHA-512 is SHA-2, the 512 is just the digest size

oh right

I hear you're supposed to use SHA-3, more secure.

But then again, I know nothing about cryptography.

2:33 AM

SHA-3 is only "more secure" in that it's different from SHA-1, whereas SHA-2 is based on SHA-1

@Dennis How does the code work? When I run it locally it doesn't work. Is that command part of a library I need to install?

Both so far don't have much in the way of attacks

@Phoenix It's faster, but there's no reason to believe that SHA-3 is more secure for simple hashing. It solves a bunch of other problems though (length extension attacks, etc.).

@WheatWizard What does doesn't work mean?

@Dennis bash: sha512sum: command not found

Which linux distro are you using?

2:35 AM

OK, so you have to install it. How depends on your OS.

@Phoenix OSX

You guys think quantum computers will severely mess with the cryptography landscape in our lifetime?

I read an article about that.

Apparently, no.

No?

@Dennis Is there a particular library it is part of?

or bash version (do they even make new bash anymore?)

2:37 AM

@WheatWizard Just do this. tio.run/nexus/… The garbage prevents brute-force attacks.

I'm more excited for ternary computers than quantum computers

Cool thanks!

@ConorO'Brien You could already make one of those

@WheatWizard It's not a bash built-in. Very few things are. Seems to be part of GNU coreutils.

ik but they're not popular

2:38 AM

Although many Public Key encryption methods currently aren't secure (Theoretically) against a Quantum Computer attack, the attacker would still need quite a powerful computer, and there are already encryption methods safe against Quantum Computer attacks.

@HelkaHomba I mean yes if only because of Grover's. AES for instance doesn't have any quantum attacks so far but you still need bigger key sizes

Ok I'll just switch OSes then

Fedora doesn't like my Graphics Card.

It doesn't correctly recognize the display(s)

@WheatWizard Seems like a good idea.

Try Fedora

@quartata Forgot about that alg. Spooky. I was thinking QCs will happen in our lifetime and start breaking some stuff but not to the point where the average consumer has to really care

2:40 AM

@Phoenix 90% of my computer is in an Arch partition, I just need to reboot :)

@Phoenix I can confirm, it's natively part of Fedora25.

All OS's < windows < All os's

How does that work?

PHP magic?

Ahh! Recurrsion!

I used perl and it said it was true

@HelkaHomba wouldn't they have to care tho? those without tech experience might totally freak out

2:43 AM

╭─ Windows ◄╮
╰► All OSs ─╯

@HelkaHomba It won't be too bad though. 256-bit keys will still be moderately safe against Grover's

@WheatWizard Why were you on OSX in the first place?

@Phoenix I broke my windows manager for arch

@quartata I don't even understand en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grover%27s_algorithm It sounds like "I'm thinking of 4 unrelated numbers. By knowing 2 of them you can find out the other 2."

I see.

2:45 AM

I broke it like 9 months ago but I'm lazy so I use OSX now

(Install Fedora)

I have definitely fallen in love with Fedora.

But I'd probably like it more if it liked my graphics card.

Poll: Bash or Zsh or whatever else you may use?

@ATaco It's in coreutils. It's part of every GNU/Linux distro.

@ConorO'Brien I mean, does your mom know or care that RSA is used to keep her bank statements secret from everyone else?

2:46 AM

@Phoenix fish

(do dragon moms have bank accounts?)

@Phoenix What is good about Fedora?

What do you like about Fish?

@WheatWizard Breaks less easily than arch

@HelkaHomba well we typically guard our own hordes. I can tell you RSA doesn't stand up to a dragonic brute force attack

@HelkaHomba and that's true

I'm not saying Fish is bad, I just know 0 things about it.

2:48 AM

@Phoenix The syntax for shell scripting is really simple and intuitive.

Fish has Fedora Support.

@Phoenix I don't think I am going back to arch anyway. How does fedora stack up against other distros?

Personally, I like the customizability.

But that's true of most Distros.

user165474

Congrats @Dennis! You have passed Martin Ender's reputation!

Changing Desktop Environments is easier than most.

2:51 AM

@HyperNeutrino and yet codegolf.stackexchange.com/users?tab=Reputation&filter=all

user165474

Yup.

user165474

I think it may be cached.

user165474

And also that will probably change a lot until one surpasses the other by a significant amount (like a couple hundred or so)

Or Martin rigged it loooong ago

user165474

Yep :D

2:52 AM

@WheatWizard It generally has the most up to date software, while also being really secure. It's not as user friendly as Ubuntu or Mint, but if you've used Arch that shouldn't be a problem.

@ComradeSparklePony I know you asked this a while ago, but yes! It's definitely possible. Iirc, KritixiLithos uses V bindings.

@Phoenix I think you are vastly overestimating my competence. I broke Arch pretty bad pretty quickly. My roommate wants me to switch to Mint so I think I might do that. (if I every get of my ass)

There are some things that I think would be useful, and some things I'd highly recommend against

Personally, I think Ubuntu > Mint

Feel free to ping me with questions about it if you have any

2:55 AM

More people use Ubuntu, it's easier to get help.

I've run Ubuntu before so I think I'll not do that again

Well, Mint is derived from Ubuntu.

@Dennis I know I missed it by a lot, but congrats on passing Martin! You've worked hard for it, and if anyone around here deserves #1, it's you. :)

Thanks! :)

Somewhere, Martin is crying.

user165474

2:59 AM

Yep :P

@WheatWizard If you don't like how it looks, you can run Kubuntu or Lubuntu or what have you.

Martin does cry when he's sad, he golfs.

@Phoenix Nah I just don't like to do anything twice. I like to sample around OSes and I'm long overdue for an OS change rn.

unfortunately the machine I'm on literally doesn't work without OSX installed somewhere on it

Well, you won't really be getting anything new out of Mint.

Ok maybe I'll try fedora. Thansk!

3:03 AM

Fedora's pretty great.

Have you used GNOME before?

Yeah, I hated it. Its not for me

By default Fedora comes with Gnome, if you want a different DE you have to go to the alternative downloads section.

KDE 4 life

Or get Dash-To-Panel for Gnome.

Which is what I use.

I think I had Dash-to-panel

I did like drop down terminal

3:05 AM

@HelkaHomba BTW I'm working on a html extraction code. it's a bit more complicated than I imagined (and not yet done) but it's a fun problem.

GNOME 3 is awful. Sure, you can install a gazillion extensions to make it less awful, but installing a sane DE is much easier.

I think I want to try to use bspwm again. Although I am like 90% certain its what broke my arch installation.

(or rather I broke my arch using it)

I like GNOME's DE.

KDE is nice.

user165474

I have KDE on Mint

user165474

3:07 AM

It's quite nice

How different is KDE from XFCE? are they even similar?

It might be because I've not particularly used GNOME's DE however.

I've been sticking to the Terminal as much as possible.

@WheatWizard XFCE is designed to be really light-weight, making it significantly uglier. iirc

Default XFCE is ugly but you can configure it to look nice.

I had a nice one a while back before I deleted everything

@HelkaHomba It isn't really an intuitive concept

3:09 AM

@WheatWizard That's true of all of them.

You can think of the domain of a function as an n dimensional space where each basis vector represents the location of a possible input

4 mins ago, by Dennis

GNOME 3 is awful. Sure, you can install a gazillion extensions to make it less awful, but installing a sane DE is much easier.

s/GNOME3/xfce

So if we represent this as n qubits

With the magic of quantum scariness we can apply an operation that essentially rotates the vector represented by the qubits towards the correct solution

I don't think I have seen a WM that doesn't look like garbage out of the box

WM?

3:12 AM

Once it's close to the position of the solution in the space the probability of measuring the qubits and getting the vector representing the position of the solution is very high

@Phoenix I meant DE

It is probabilistic in that regard but people did the math showing the optimal amount of iterations needed

KDE is pretty good out of the box imo.

But yeah, you'd probably want to tweak it a bit.

@Phoenix Xfce may not be the prettiest in the bunch, but it's rock-solid and provides a familiar interface. GNOME is much less stable, stability decreases with every extension you install, and most users initial reaction to the UI is oh hell no if they actually want to do something with the computer.

3:15 AM

@Dennis Any recommendations for a DE?

He's already expressed his KDE preference.

Ah

I'm not much of a fan of the idea of windows like DEs.

What do you use?

KDE if you're like me and want to be able to tweak every single aspect of your DE to your taste.

Currently I'm using GNOME, but I'd like to not be.

3:19 AM

TBH I wish I could use Unity with Fedora.

Eh, I might Try KDE.

I'm rather sad Canonical is killing it off entirely.

@Dennis Congrats on achieving this historical milestone!

Does this challenge look ready to post? I think I am all set but there has been a complaint about the current victory criterion so I wanted to get some opinions.

:)

3:23 AM

I feel like we need another Dennis Challenge.

I'll be up there soon enough, just you wait! only 186k to go!

which is about 2 and a half years of straight-up rep-capping, assuming you don't gain any more >.>

0

Q: Longest equal subsequences

Definitions A subsequence may not be contiguous, e.g. [1, 1, 1] is a subsequence of [1, 2, 1, 2, 1]. An equal subsequence is a subsequence in which every element is equal. The longest equal subsequence may not be unique, e.g. [1, 1] and [2, 2] are both longest equal subsequences of [2, 1, 1, 2]...

code-golf array-manipulation

@ATaco Dennis Numbers 3.0 should be based on 138019, the amount of rep he had in the instant before he beat Martin.

@WheatWizard halfway through, typo spotted: "will only me allowed to score..."

Also, Wow, Martin has way more badges than Dennis.

3:36 AM

@MistahFiggins thanks!

@Phoenix That's because Martin's content is a lot more popular than mine. It took me 2,142 answers to catch up with him, and he posted "only" 1,780 answers.

That and question badges.

@WheatWizard One problem That I could see arising in the scoring method would be that once you golf below 150 byes, there isn't much incentive to golf more (specifically for just a couple extra bytes), especially if (and I think it likely) there is a language or 2 that far exceeds others

@MistahFiggins Hm. It is a thought. There are essentially 100 separate challenges though I don't know how much work people are going to put in regardless.

You could change it to: "you get (150 - byte count) points per challenge, as long as you completed them sub-150 bytes"

Do you have a suggested alternate?

3:40 AM

goal being the most points

with maybe a bonus for 1st place

but that gives zero for completing it in exactly 150

I would like to give a significant bonus for being able to complete it vs not

maybe you get a base 50 or whatever point value for completing it?

I have to think about this.

@NewMainPosts thanks

Its hard to make a good balanced score system

3:42 AM

you could adjust the base bonus for completion, or even divide the byte-based points by 2

@WheatWizard agreed

Its also nice to keep it simple.

currently my system is not very simple and seems to have problems otherwise

Ok I probably wont post tomorrow then

ok

I have to think this one through

Thanks!

I need to come up with more test cases for my sandboxed post

and it's really time consuming to do so

Link so I can return the favor?

3:47 AM

1

A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

To Polar and Back code-golf math geometry Background There are 2 main ways to represent a single point on a plane: in Cartesian form, with an x and y value, and in Polar form, with an angle and a magnitude For example, the point (5, 5) can also be represented with the angle π / 4 and magni...

I'm in the process of simplifying a giant algorithm involving integrals

> integrals

oh no

That does not sound like fun

user165474

simplify + integral does not go together

writing 1/4th of it out takes up about 9 inches ATM

@HyperNeutrino Residue_theorem

user165474

ooo

user165474

3:50 AM

interesting :D

@MistahFiggins Mathematica, 6 bytes: Reduce

user165474

Yay thanks :D

user165474

@Phoenix Jelly, 1 byte: /

Uhh, wut

I'd have to type it all out first. Besides, doing it by hand is sorta fun

> sorta

3:52 AM

@HyperNeutrino What does that do

user165474

It reduces an array using a certain dyad

I'm currently here because I am supposed to be evaluating integrals on my homework.

user165474

Syntax is [dyad]/

user165474

or apparently it can be [dyad][nilad]/

@WheatWizard definite, or indefinite?

3:53 AM

Mathematica's Reduce simplifies equations. Alternatively, FullSimplify

@MistahFiggins Contour integrals on the complex plane.

Actually those don't quite do the same thing.

Reduce is for equations, FullSimplify is for expressions.

I don't know if those are considered definite, but the are not really indefinite

huh

I'm doing a course in complex analysis, so all my integrals are path integrals on the complex plane.

Its a nighmare

3:57 AM

sounds intriguing until you have to do problems

Calculus is a PITA. Most high-level math I find really interesting to look at, even if I can't understand everything going on, Calc depresses me.

Its super interesting but the professor is not that great and the course work is really hard.

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May '171

The Nineteenth Byte

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