The Nineteenth Byte

Helka Homba

12:04 AM

@ConorO'Brien Indeed

DJMcMayhem

WTF? Chrome thinks my last challenge is german, and tries to translate it for me.

Conor O'Brien

lol

Helka Homba

2 Google errors in 8 messages. The world is crashing

DJMcMayhem

Can you imagine what would happen if google were to inexplicably stop working?

The streets would run red, and everybody would lose their minds.

Helka Homba

12:20 AM

> A brief outage by the search engine Google led to a mild panic about the end of the world.

PhiNotPi

@HelkaHomba How much money do you think that cost Google?

DJMcMayhem

Conor O'Brien

anyone know ruby in here?

DJMcMayhem

@ConorO'Brien a little

Conor O'Brien

this gives the following error and I have no idea

array.rb:12:in `pop': no implicit conversion from nil to integer (TypeError)
        from array.rb:12:in `pop'
        from array.rb:33:in `<main>'

ignore get, it's still in progress

DJMcMayhem

12:33 AM

What are you trying to do? Wouldn't that create an infinite recursion?

Conor O'Brien

no? because super refers to the array (parent) class?

feersum

You can seriously name a method top=?

DJMcMayhem

Oh, I never got that far with ruby

@ConorO'Brien What if you just call "super" (no "pop")

Conor O'Brien

@feersum yes. it refers to the definition of top, like (Stack.new [2, 3]).top = 45

@DJMcMayhem same error

DJMcMayhem

It's just a guess that I got from this answer:

27

A: ruby super keyword

The example provided in the Ruby Docs for the super keyword: module Vehicular def move_forward(n) @position += n end end class Vehicle include Vehicular # Adds Vehicular to the lookup path end class Car < Vehicle def move_forward(n) puts "Vrooom!" super # Calls ...

It seems like the base class (array) isn't being constructed correctly

feersum

12:37 AM

It looks like super can automatically forward the arguments?

Conor O'Brien

ohhhh

PhiNotPi

I'm trying to find the easiest way to do a non-linear recurrence relation (/shift register) in BF.

feersum

What if you write n = 5 and then super. Will it forward the original argument or the new value you assigned to n?

Conor O'Brien

@feersum thanks so much :D

def pop(*args)
    return super if args.empty?
end

this works

and then I just use args[0] later on as n

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

@El'endiaStarman thx for the playlist, has enough rotating songs to not get dull

El'endia Starman

12:42 AM

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ Glad to hear that! I typically end up adding a new song every week or so.

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

what's the name of that ID for identifying molecules?

it's like a number iirc

DJMcMayhem

Molecular weight?

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

no

something similar to a CAS number, but not that

Conor O'Brien

I just refactored my code to try and fix a bug, but it turns out that it was a different bug causing the issue >_<

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

lol

El'endia Starman

1:00 AM

@ConorO'Brien I know for a fact that I have frequently fixed bugs that weren't the actual bugs I saw. It's mildly annoying and amusing when that happens.

Conor O'Brien

I agree completely :D

DJMcMayhem

When I was first working on V, basically every single thing that could be wrong was wrong. I tried fixing it, but it was like sticking your finger in a damn. I can totally relate.

Conor O'Brien

maybe this is one of the fundamental programmer truths

DJMcMayhem

O_O I just got a 695 byte pyth answer on my intersection challenge.

That's over three times as long as the python answer

Maltysen

@DJMcMayhem he just golfed it to 385. now its completely normal

Conor O'Brien

1:13 AM

I want to see the 695 byte version :/

Maltysen

@ConorO'Brien grace period

Conor O'Brien

yeah

Maltysen

its literally the longest answer

DJMcMayhem

It's a new user though

Conor O'Brien

but longer than batch XD

DJMcMayhem

1:15 AM

I usually upvote new users unless it's invalid or cheating or something

Really all of the answers are longer than I was expecting. I didn't think that challenge was particularly difficult

H Walters

I don't get most C++ submissions

(Looking at that C++ one)

Conor O'Brien

@DJMcMayhem it doesn't look so, either. Intuitively, it's just taking the proper sections from an input...

DJMcMayhem

CMC: The intersection challenge with no input. Do every direction, NESW

H Walters

That one should just be a C solution... it's almost the same except can be golfed further

DJMcMayhem

@ConorO'Brien Yeah, I should try to see if I can win my own challenge with some good ol V

I've done similar before

Although it's much less satisfying to win your own challenge.

Maltysen

1:21 AM

@DJMcMayhem pyth.herokuapp.com/…

quartata

Wouldn't splitting it into two packed strings (half the top and the horizontal part) and printing it like 1, 2, 1 be shorter?

also did you use zopfli

DJMcMayhem

@Maltysen Great thanks. I was trying to be productive, but now I have to outgolf you. :P

Maltysen

@DJMcMayhem I literally just threw it into zip compression

if it wasn't online, it would be 50 bytes since i wouldn't use the escapes

quartata

@DJMcMayhem psst try it in cg: you can use ! to provide constant input to p

DJMcMayhem

@quartata Ooh, that sounds fun. Is there a way to bypass compression yet?

@Maltysen 77 bytes ;_;

quartata

1:32 AM

No sorry :/

DJMcMayhem

It can be golfed down further, but I'm lazy

@quartata OK. I tried to add that myself and make a PR, but I had a hard time with the libraries.

quartata

Which ones?

pip3 install exrex python-pcre

PhiNotPi

Wall of Hello, World!s courtesy my autogolfer:

+<<+[[<<+>++++>+++>-->-->-<<<]>-]<<<.<<++++.+++++++..+++.<<<.>--.>.>.+++.------.--------.<<+.
-<++<+[+[<<+>+>+++>-->+>+<<<]>--]<<<<.<<<++.+++++++..+++.>>.<+.<<--.>.+++.------.--------.>+.
-----<+[-[<<+>->+++++>->+<<]>-]>.<<<<<-.<+..<++.<<---------.------------.>+.>.+++.>.>-.<<<<+.
--<+++[[<<+>++>+++>->-->---<<<]>-]>+.<<<<<<---.<-..>>>++.<-.------------.>>+.<.+++.<<<.>-.>+.
-<++<++++[-[<<+>->+++++>->>+++<<<]>]<<.<<.>+..+++.<<<<<++++++++.>+.>>+.>>.+++.------.<-.<<<+.
--<+[+[<<+>----->+++++>-->---<<]>]>++++.<<<<<.<<+..+++.>>>.>++++.<<<---.<.+++.------.>>-.>>+.

Maltysen

all 78?

PhiNotPi

no... all 93. They are garbage.

Conor O'Brien

1:39 AM

what happened to the 78 generated one?

PhiNotPi

I'm trying a couple variations on the recurrence relation theme, to try to break the 78 wall. As you can see, my current approach is not working.

And just now it outputted 2 more length-93 versions.

DJMcMayhem

@PhiNotPi why not just brute force every single one of the 7^77 possible solutions to see which one works? :P

PhiNotPi

@DJMcMayhem 2^77? I think you mean 7^77

DJMcMayhem

That's what I said

twiddles thumbs

Conor O'Brien

   7^77x
118181386580595879976868414312001964434038548836769923458287039207

that is one heckuva lot of programs

probably less if you enumerated them

DJMcMayhem

1:46 AM

A lot of those are invalid and could be skipped

You could also remove the ones with less than 13 dots

And any of them containing -+ or +-

Or []

Conor O'Brien

or <>

2 mins ago, by Conor O'Brien

probably less if you enumerated them

Or ><

or ,

we could use this

Or just never generate those ones

Conor O'Brien

1:48 AM

except filter no-ops

quartata

Hey, look on the bright side. Grover's algorithm can do it in a mere 4 * 10^18 millennium

Conor O'Brien

who?

PhiNotPi

@ConorO'Brien It's a quantum algorithm.

Conor O'Brien

oh

quartata

It probably would be better if you brute forced something like TinyBF then converted

DJMcMayhem

1:50 AM

You could probably also filter out the ones that enter am infinite loop. That sounds pretty easy, right? :P

Conor O'Brien

xD

quartata

You'd have to use a partial halting problem solver anyways

DJMcMayhem

Very relevant:

In the 60s, Marvin Minsky assigned a couple of undergrads to spend the summer programming a computer to use a camera to identify objects in a scene. He figured they'd have the problem solved by the end of the summer. Half a century later, we're still working on it.

quartata

Otherwise it woud get stuck on [>+] or the like

PhiNotPi

I'm starting to doubt the feasibility of this.

Helka Homba

1:56 AM

@quartata Today's program brought to you by the number 4 * 10^18!

Conor O'Brien

are humans turing complete? :P

they can solve the halting problem, given enough time for an input

H Walters

Really?

quartata

No they can't

DJMcMayhem

Wait, is the halting problem still impossible if the program doesn't take any input?

Conor O'Brien

sure we can

trichoplax

1:58 AM

@ConorO'Brien Yes, but only as a species

Conor O'Brien

@quartata couldn't you hand someone a BF program and they could eventually figure out if it terminated or not? (assuming no , in the program)

Helka Homba

(hope someone got my joke)

quartata

Humans are Turing complete though. In fact it's fairly easy to envision a Turing machine as a human with a pencil a thin paper tape and a sticky note

4

@ConorO'Brien Tell me if this program terminates:

H Walters

@ConorO'Brien How?

DJMcMayhem

@ConorO'Brien for simple ones, sure

Conor O'Brien

2:01 AM

@HWalters we'll figure that out once if we ever figure out the brain

@quartata don't leave me hanging :/

quartata

def catch22(program):
  if (halts(program)):
    while True: pass
  else: return

Given itself as input

H Walters

@ConorO'Brien Then I'd recommend waiting until you figure out the brain before claiming we can solve the HP

Conor O'Brien

@quartata it halts with an error: halts is undefined

:P

I was talking about BF programs

PhiNotPi

This remind me of a discussion I had with someone about whether or not the brain counts as a computer. (I had to bail out once she used the double-slit experiment to argue for non-local consciousness.)

DJMcMayhem

@PhiNotPi what's the double-slit experiment? (Asking for a friend)

H Walters

2:04 AM

@PhiNotPi That's actually easy... I would skip the philosophy and just point out that quite literally, computer was a job title before it was a machine

Conor O'Brien

^

PhiNotPi

@DJMcMayhem a thing in quantum mechanics: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double-slit_experiment

Conor O'Brien

Helka Homba

@DJMcMayhem Spoopy stuff

DJMcMayhem

@PhiNotPi That's way over my head :/

Conor O'Brien

2:07 AM

mine too

DJMcMayhem

@ConorO'Brien fortississimo

That's what it looks like to me

Helka Homba

@DJMcMayhem It's simply an experiment that showed that electrons have wave like properties, such as forming the above interference pattern when passed through a double slit, contrary to the once common belief that they were merely particles, like tiny ping pong balls.

DJMcMayhem

Huh. Spoopy

PhiNotPi

@DJMcMayhem long story short: photons (and other things) act like both waves and particles. Rays of light can (con/de)structively interfere with each other, but it turns out that a ray of light can still interfere with itself even when there's only a single photon.

Geobits

Pfft, that's nothing. I interfere with myself all the time.

Helka Homba

2:11 AM

PhitonNotPirticle

4

DJMcMayhem

@PhiNotPi OK. And what does this have to do with human-Turing machines?

PhiNotPi

Nothing really.

H Walters

Cool... first cut golfing fizzbuzz in CPP... 740 chars

DJMcMayhem

@Geobits what just happened with those stars?

Geobits

I dunno. Sometime stars interfere with each other too.

H Walters

2:18 AM

...and doesn't quite work... forgot to add "modulo shifters"

quartata

Hard CMC: Given a list of three words append such to one, so to another and very to the last such that such does not follow a noun, very does not follow an adjective or adverb and so does not follow an adjective. Return a falsey output if it can't be done. Using the Internet for the part of speech lookup is fine

Geobits

Brain, 0 bytes: [awaiting input]

Conor O'Brien

@quartata how do I convert a tf2 .dem file to a viewable video file, like .avi or something?

quartata

@Geobits [what, disallowed, silly]

PhiNotPi

Yesterday I tried running a simulation of the human brain on my computer, and my computer froze up.

quartata

2:25 AM

@ConorO'Brien You can do startmovie but there are a few pitfalls:

Geobits

@quartata false

@PhiNotPi Was it drinking an Icee too fast?

quartata

Default is uncompressed which outputs a bunch of Tegra pictures as well as a wav file containing the audip. Ths will maim your hard drive.

Conor O'Brien

what would you suggest as an alternative?

quartata

Second is AVI but because of Valve time it doesn't support multi chunk AVIs (standard came out in 1996) meaning files can't be >1Gb

Helka Homba

@ConorO'Brien Screen record the playback with xsplit (free)

quartata

2:28 AM

Third is MP4 which looks awful

pick your poison

Helka Homba

Or I think even Windows has a crummy screen recorder

quartata

@Geobits Der I was thinking of silly as the noun...

Geobits

English is way too accommodating to make it easy. Nouns become verbs become adverbs become adjectives become nouns :/

quartata

Yeah, hrmm..

Conor O'Brien

@quartata how might I do this?

quartata

2:31 AM

Play the demo then run the command. See help startmovie for the syntax

Conor O'Brien

] help startmovie
"startmovie"
 - Start recording movie frames.

fantastic

quartata

startmovie compression_method I think

This will take your computer hostage fyi

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

Hmm... How do I split an 18x6in. PDF page into two 8.5x11in. pages for printing?

(on Ubuntu)

quartata

@ConorO'Brien oh shit I was wrong it's startmovie filename methd

kill tf2 now

Conor O'Brien

good thing I haven't done anything yet :P

ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ

2:42 AM

@quartata Don't just kill TF2, burn it with fire

Conor O'Brien

@ΛεγίωνΜάμμαλϠΟΗʹ ಠ_ಠ

quartata

MP4 is h264

dont specify a method for uncompressed

H Walters

Does anyone here besides me ever hack in pure c preprocessor?

Geobits

There are a couple people I've seen using it on main, but I don't hear much about it in chat, no.

H Walters

More specifically, see any additional golfing opportunities here? coliru.stacked-crooked.com/a/432b7bccaac6d8ed

Hmmm... darn it... I see one. Dispense with everything and just preprocess the result directly. Given that I don't think it's worth posting.

Maltysen

3:04 AM

@ConorO'Brien that just says that the probability of a particle existing somewhere at time t adds up to 1

Conor O'Brien

@Maltysen fantastic, glad you can read it >_<

Maltysen

@ConorO'Brien no, I really don't know quantum mechanics, that one image you posted was the only one that didn't contain any spooky quantum mechanics math in it, just a standard triple integral

happy coincidence I guess :P

Conor O'Brien

> standard triple integral

I have enough problems with the standard single

Maltysen

@ConorO'Brien it says "all space" under it, which means you are integrating over all space

which makes sense because space is 3-d here

El'endia Starman

Multiple integrals are just applying a single integral repeatedly, typically across different axes.

Conor O'Brien

3:13 AM

integrals are just the inverse of derivation right

Maltysen

@El'endiaStarman not really. thats what fubini's says multiple integrals are equal to, but they are defined as actually integrating 2d/3d objects (e.g. the dV up there)

H Walters

More or less, yes

Maltysen

@ConorO'Brien and the fundamental theorem of calculus say that by awesome magic, that lets you add up areas under a curve (or add up other things)

Conor O'Brien

yeah I don't know what that means

El'endia Starman

@Maltysen Indeed. I was speaking more to the practical/computational side of it.

@ConorO'Brien If you know the exact distance a car has traveled at any moment in time, you can figure out exactly how fast it was going at any moment in time. Conversely, if you know exactly how fast a car was going at any moment, you can figure out exactly how far it went by that time. This is the fundamental theorem of calculus.

Geobits

3:16 AM

:32253059 To my untrained ear, that sound like something that came from a bad markov generator.

feersum

Aww it's removed

Maltysen

@Geobits ...yeah, Elendia's explanation was about a billion times better

Conor O'Brien

@El'endiaStarman yup this is why I prefer pure math to calculus. that makes zero sense :P

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman It's also how inertial navigation units work, except that even the best of those accumulate drift over time :(

El'endia Starman

@Geobits Yeah, blame measurement error for that.

Maltysen

3:17 AM

@Geobits crossing my fingers for tango

Geobits

tango?

El'endia Starman

@ConorO'Brien Uh, what? Calculus isn't pure math?

Geobits

@El'endiaStarman Yeah, we used to cross-ref with GPS every so often to keep them straight.

Conor O'Brien

@El'endiaStarman no? it's applied math?

El'endia Starman

Calculus is much broader than pure/applied math.

H Walters

3:18 AM

Ironically, according to QM, if you know the exact distance a car has traveled over time, you have no clue how fast it's going

El'endia Starman

It's all about rates of change, which you can and will find practically everywhere.

Maltysen

@Geobits google's new standard for sensors on mobile devices.

Conor O'Brien

@El'endiaStarman maybe I'm just tired, then :P

Geobits

Oooh, I'll have to look into that.

El'endia Starman

@Maltysen ^ Agreed with Geobits. Though I'm lazier, so...link? :P

@HWalters Yeah, but the exactitude required there is more than we can achieve. :P

Maltysen

3:20 AM

get.google.com/tango is the actual vr project they are using it for, and they are asking phone manufacturers to match specs that will let it work

"tango enabled smartphone"

Geobits

Dammit google, I don't want to watch a commercial for it. Explain it in text form :(

Maltysen

@ConorO'Brien ignoring the part about inverting derivatives, a definite integral is finding the area under a curve

Conor O'Brien

@Maltysen oh, is that it?

Maltysen

fundamental theorem of calculus says that this can be found by inverting a derivative

@El'endiaStarman was explaining why this works

Conor O'Brien

the example just confuses me :/

Maltysen

3:23 AM

@Geobits scrolling down has a little text

@ConorO'Brien let's say you had a graph of snowfall rates for the past 10 hours

the total snowfall would be the area under the curve right?

El'endia Starman

@ConorO'Brien Hmm, try graphing it? Alternatively, try rebooting first. Which may take several hours.

Conor O'Brien

@Maltysen I think I'm going to reboot. conor.exe is taking a long time to respond.

Maltysen

@ConorO'Brien no, you're overthinking this

Conor O'Brien

okay

Maltysen

@ConorO'Brien if the snowfall was falling at say, 10 ft/hour at t=0 and 7 ft/hour at t=1, etc.

Conor O'Brien

3:26 AM

ok

Maltysen

you would have to just add up the stuff to get the total snowfall

Conor O'Brien

right

Geobits

well...

Conor O'Brien

but that isn't a curve?

Maltysen

10*1 hr+ 7* 1hr, but obviously more granular

@ConorO'Brien yes, that's why you need infinite presicion, and that's called a reimann sum, but no need to consider that now

Conor O'Brien

3:27 AM

@Maltysen gotcha

Maltysen

do you see how its just the total area under the curve?

Conor O'Brien

ye

Maltysen

but total snowfall is trivialy also just your starting snowfall minus your ending snowfall

like you started with 20 in and ended with 50 in

k?

Conor O'Brien

ok

DJMcMayhem

in Brain-Flak, 44 secs ago, by DJMcMayhem

Haha, I am now the contributor with the least contribution in my own language.

Maltysen

3:29 AM

@ConorO'Brien now, can you see how the rate of snowfall, our original function, is just the derivative of the total snowfall?

Conor O'Brien

oh

Maltysen

aka, the total snowfall function can be considered the inverse derivitive of our original function

Conor O'Brien

I see

that makes a lot more senes

Maltysen

now, if you generalize this, you get that the total area under our curve is the difference of our "inverse derivitives"(actually called indefinite integrals) from the starting and ending points of our range

this is the 2nd fundamental theorem of calculus, which says integration cancels out diffrentiaion

its a corollary of the first, which says that diffretiation cancels out integration, but that's harder to explain without reimann sums

H Walters

I think now he's ready to use integrals to find the length of curves and integrate along paths

Conor O'Brien

3:34 AM

I see

thanks :D

I really have to go now, bai

Maltysen

bai

@HWalters haha

DJMcMayhem

@Dennis Could you pull brain-flak? While you're at it, the wrapper might need some tweaking. Could you change it to ruby brain_flak.rb [args] -f input_file source_file?

Dennis

@DJMcMayhem Done and done.

DJMcMayhem

Thanks

Eamon Olive

@DJMcMayhem I don't think this is correct

DJMcMayhem

3:45 AM

No, it's working.

Downgoat

@ConorO'Brien you are familiar with ruby right? I need ruby halp >_>

Eamon Olive

My bad

DJMcMayhem

@EamonOlive That's ascii input, not output.

ASCII-only

@Downgoat for what

DJMcMayhem

TIL n ^ 2 == sum(range(0, n - 1)) * 2 + n

ASCII-only

3:47 AM

@Downgoat what's your problem

@DJMcMayhem Yeah, which is 1+3+5+7...+(n*2-1) (the more common form)

Downgoat

@ASCII-only what is ! postfix operator do?

ASCII-only

@Downgoat Just for readability, indicates that the function modifies the object

Downgoat

wait so its not an operator??

ASCII-only

Not really

DJMcMayhem

@ASCII-only How does that work out? I must be missing something

I mean, I already knew that, but I don't see how the two forms are related

ASCII-only

3:51 AM

A lot of the time there are things like downcase and downcase!, only the second one modifies the object

@DJMcMayhem range(0, n - 1) * 2 = 0, 2, 4...

add n is the same as adding one to every one of those terms

DJMcMayhem

:O

ASCII-only

^^^ Note: that's pseudocode

334

Q: Why are exclamation marks used in Ruby methods?

In Ruby some methods have a question mark (?) that ask a question like include? that ask if the object in question is included, this then returns a true/false. But why do some methods have exclamation marks (!) where others don't? What does it mean?