The Nineteenth Byte

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

12:01 AM

better than mine. I still haven't fixed a few bugs from over a year ago

though nobody has found them yet >:3

Downgoat

I should probably just make lambdas now so you can make functional programs in Cheddar and do OO stuff later >_>

quartata

You don't need lambdas, you just need to be able to pass functions around + proper scoping

Although since Cheddar is supposed to be an OO language I would focus on doing that good first :P

Quill

great, 1098 lines of linter failures

Downgoat

@quartata the latter is done. Idk if I should do functions or lambda syntax first

I already have the tokenizer for lambdas is the thing tho

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

functions first

quartata

12:07 AM

@Downgoat So this'll work?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

they are more flexible -- can do more

quartata

Actually, I don't even know what your function syntax is going to look like. I'll just do pidgin code

Quill

I'm using regexes mainly to clean this stuff

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ;_; that means I'll have to write a new tokenizer

@Quill 10/10 cannot possibly fail and bork everything :P

quartata

function closure(x) {
  function f() {
    return x + 2
  }
  return f
}

That's what I meant by "good scoping"

Quill

12:08 AM

([ ]+)//([^ \/]) to $1// $2 aint gonna bork everything....

Downgoat

func foo(Bool: arg1, String: arg2 = "default", optionalArg?) {
     // code
     return result;
}

quartata

OK

func closure(Integer: x) {
  func f() {
    return x + 2;
  }
  return f;
}

Downgoat

@quartata that's done. The scope is killed when the closure is done, but the scope still exists in f's inheritance chain

quartata

@Downgoat Nice.

Downgoat

idk I've already announced release of cheddar but that was premature celebration... v1.0.0-beta is where it's at

Quill

12:10 AM

Replaced `\t` with `    ` 5406 in 31 files

Maltysen

@Downgoat can one redefine functions, like func foo(){...} and then bar=foo?

Downgoat

yeah

Maltysen

@Quill YOU MONSTER!

ಠ_ಠ

Downgoat

@Quill :D

quartata

@Downgoat It took Linux 3 years to move to v1.0

Downgoat

12:12 AM

but linus probably had a life, I don't, I'm a goat

quartata

He really didn't.

Downgoat

but was he a goat? :P

quartata

No but still

This is (optimistically) 1/6th of the complexity of Linux. That's still 6 months at best

Downgoat

an operating system is muuuucccchh more large scale then a programming language i made in my free time

quartata

Debatable. I think you underestimate the complexity of an actual working functional language

Downgoat

12:13 AM

@quartata Cheddar's been in dev for ~4 months, it'll hit 5 in a couple weeks.

I expect v1.0.0 to be out by end of July

so that's almost 6 months

quartata

Furthermore at the time Linux wasn't nearly as sophisticated as it is now, mostly because a lot of the hardware was consistent. Linus was really only targeting x86.

@Downgoat So there.

And even then it'll probably take longer. This isn't something to rush, IMO

Maltysen

halp how i check intersection for convex hull with vertical line

says i can't divide by 0 for some reason D:

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat one week later... "v1.0.0-omega is where it's at"

Downgoat

version numbers vary from project to project. v1.0.0 of Cheddar is very different from v1.0.0 of linux

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ Something similar happened with Linux actually

Downgoat

12:16 AM

@quartata ._. how so?

quartata

> The X Window System was soon ported to Linux. In March 1992, Linux version 0.95 was the first to be capable of running X. This large version number jump (from 0.1x to 0.9x) was due to a feeling that a version 1.0 with no major missing pieces was imminent. However, this proved to be somewhat overoptimistic, and from 1993 to early 1994, 15 development versions of version 0.99 appeared.

They ended up doing v0.9.9, patch level 15B

... 15C.... 15D...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Maltysen use a regex to replace all zeroes with 1

quartata

Patch level 16 was 1.0

@Downgoat Really?

Downgoat

?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

^

quartata

12:17 AM

I mean, you don't think Cheddar won't be pretty large once it's done? STDLIB and all?

Maltysen

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ 10/10 definitely gives correct answer

Downgoat

I know that Cheddar isn't gonna be as complex internally as the C compiler

quartata

That doesn't mean it won't be a lot of code with its own intricacies

LegionMammal978

Back from a week-long road trip

Maltysen

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ also, the 0 isn't in the input, but when the x coordinates are the same and I go like x1-x2 and then it becomes 0

quartata

12:17 AM

If you ever want to have your skin curl do perldoc perlguts

And I wouldn't say Perl is very complex internally either. It also has a very light STDLIB

(Keep in mind Larry made Perl just because he was sick of Awk and wanted it as a personal tool)

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Maltysen convert your points to strings, maybe. then you can use the regex

quartata

@muddyfish Holy smokes

How old was that now?

Huh only 2 years

Downgoat

@quartata Internally (ignoring the standard library). I've got all the internals for Cheddar done. Only things are left is some syntax, and the standard library, which can get done within 1-2 months.

quartata

I thought it was older for some reason

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

only two years

quartata

12:21 AM

@Downgoat Oh-ho-ho, I think you underestimate the stdlib

That'll most likely be an ongoing project

Downgoat

Programming the stdlib is a lot less complex than programming the internals

Maltysen

@quartata hahahaha yeah, @Downgoat did you get input() sorted out?

Downgoat

though yeah, stdlib will be developed over a while

quartata

Also I thought you said it was going to have reflection?

Quill

@quartata an operating system is arguably more complex than a programming language

Downgoat

12:22 AM

@Maltysen yeah (it's IO.prompt())

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat if it doesn't have symbols, I will not use it. :P

quartata

@Quill Hence "1/6th of the complexity"

Downgoat

@quartata nah, I decided too hard f*** that

Maltysen

@Downgoat and it works properly now?

quartata

@Downgoat kek

Downgoat

12:22 AM

I think so

idk about windows

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ symbols as in JS's symbols?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

;_;

@Downgoat yes

I use those a lot

Downgoat

okay, will make in a bit

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

\o/

bkul

So @Downgoat Cheddar is interpreted in JS?

Downgoat

ill add to the TODO google spreadsheet

Quill

12:22 AM

@quartata that's generous

Downgoat

@bkul yeah. but idk about the STDLIB

bkul

@Downgoat Isn't that hella slow

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ can you test on windows? :3

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

btw I can test it for windows now, you'll just have to tell me what to do :P

oh wow ninja'd

Downgoat

@bkul no

Maltysen

12:23 AM

@Downgoat will you have gui library?

bkul

@Downgoat how is double interpreter not slow? Teach me your ways o goat

quartata

@Downgoat At minimum you should have isinstance and eval. That'll cover most things

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ okay, go here and follow the instructions. the branch is release-1.0.0

@Maltysen yeah, but I can just use some library on npm and plugin the Cheddar abstractions

quartata

@bkul It's slow. But it isn't a huge deal

Downgoat

@bkul V8 optimizer is very good & me just not wanting to call the language I've spent 4 months working on "slow"

quartata

12:24 AM

@Downgoat I doubt you'll find a good GUI toolkit

Downgoat

@quartata They are imagemagick && ffmpeg wrappers for node

Maltysen

@Downgoat also, how did you do arrays? are they actual random access arrays, or linked lists?

quartata

@Downgoat ?? I'm not sure those do what you think they do

Downgoat

@Maltysen they just work off JS arrays

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

@mınxomaτ ikr

Downgoat

12:26 AM

@quartata what do you mean by GUI toolkit? image editing right?

quartata

@Downgoat Uh no

Downgoat

._.

quartata

Making windows, buttons, ...

Downgoat

oh

quartata

Pytek will have one

bkul

12:27 AM

@Downgoat Fair enough. FWIW I like the language

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@quartata I will be using pytek

Downgoat

I can just use the QT bindings for node

quartata

@Downgoat That's good. I like Qt

Downgoat

@bkul :D :D :D

quartata

Make sure it works with your license

Downgoat

12:27 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ;_; wat about chedr

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat cheddar is good

Downgoat

strawpoll.me/10615996

quartata

I only voted that because cheddar is legitimately better than swiss

nothing to do with your subtle plugs

bkul

WHAT PLEB VOTED SWISS

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat could you go to cheddar room

LegionMammal978

12:43 AM

@Downgoat I've helped with Cheddar ;)

> Mthmtca does NOT stand for "Mthmtca To H*ll Monstrous Traitors Calling 'Acronym!'".

^ good times

Quill

@Downgoat -1 for no Brie cheese

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat allo

@quartata how would you define a fork with more than two arguments? Like J's hook

Or does it not make sense to

Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

1:04 AM

@bkul all of them apparently

what pleb wouldn't?

Maltysen

@Downgoat what did you need testing for windows for? i have my vm

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

it doesn't work on windows btw

Maltysen

1:27 AM

@Downgoat wait assignment is :=?

I love how you have monologues in your errors...

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Downgoat your userscript died

(it picked up part of a url on the definition of "bytes")

why aren't you using <element>.textContent?

Maltysen

@Downgoat are you sure you fixed the anchoring bug? did you just not upload it to github?

Downgoat

@Quill ;_; y u do dis ;_;

@Maltysen chedr

@Maltysen no it's =

@Maltysen ? wat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ blame-downgoat

@Maltysen where are you looking? It's updated on develop and release-1.0.0 REPL

cheddar> "121".split("2")
[<String><String>]

wat

@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ಠ_ಠ ;_; y u haet chedr u monstr

quartata

1:50 AM

Was listening to a song from Cave Story when I realized Cave Story came out almost 12 years ago. FeelsOldMan

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

what's cave story

quartata

case in point

Cave Story

Cave Story (洞窟物語, Dōkutsu Monogatari) is a freeware platform-adventure video game released in 2004 for the PC. It was developed over five years by Daisuke "Pixel" Amaya in his free time. Cave Story features 2D platform mechanics and is reminiscent of the classic games the developer played in his youth, such as Metroid. After its initial self-published release, Cave Story slowly gained popularity on the Internet. It received wide critical acclaim for its compelling story and gameplay. Independent developer Nicalis worked with Amaya to port the game to WiiWare and DSiWare in 2010. An enhanced version...

Have you really never played it?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

nope

I was 4 in 2004

quartata

excuses excuses

play it it's great

Downgoat

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:51 AM

is it fre

quartata

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ yes

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

link? :3

quartata

cavestory.org/download/cave-story.php

Maltysen

@Downgoat i follow your instructions for windows on your website

quartata

You can also get the remastered version for monies: store.steampowered.com/app/200900

Maltysen

1:52 AM

git clone github.com/cheddar-lang/Cheddar.git
cd Cheddar
npm install
grunt build --minify

Downgoat

@Maltysen oh no that won't werk

do:

git clone -b release-1.0.0 github.com/cheddar-lang/Cheddar.git
cd Cheddar
npm install
make

you'll need make so install like cygwin or something

LegionMammal978

Can someone give me a non-current date and time?

Maltysen

@Downgoat damn it, that npm install thing took like 7 hours

Downgoat

._.

Maltysen

@Downgoat nah, i'll just install make separately

quartata

1:53 AM

@LegionMammal978 time.gov

Downgoat

i removed some deps in v1.0.0 so it should go faster not tho

cheddar> "ab.cd".split(".")
["ab", "cd"]

\o/ \o/ \o/

Quill

now time for indexOf and lastIndexOf

also you should have language builtins that are written in Cheddar

quartata

^

Downgoat

yeah ik

I'll have to write a seperate thing for that tho

I should probably make import statements >_>

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Quill language builtins?

oh

nvm

Downgoat

1:57 AM

but one thing at a time. I gotta do functions

@Quill idk. I don't like indexOf term (i don't like camelCase in general). maybe index?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Quill what is the advantage of having that?

LegionMammal978

@Downgoat Still gotta figure out Rational tests :|

Downgoat

@LegionMammal978 oh yeah :/

btw can you port it to the new STDLIB API? :| :/

Quill

@Downgoat meh, string.index(otherString) seems a little less clear

Downgoat

I can do it if you'd like >_> but that probably won't be soon

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:58 AM

^^

Downgoat

@Quill i am pascal case person but string.IndexOf(OtherString) just looks weird

Quill

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ supports polyfill instances, JS does the same thing

Downgoat

maybe location?

Maltysen

@Quill how about instead of two of those, have one indexOf, but have a parmeter of how many to skip and an option of which end to start from

Downgoat

pollyfill instances?

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

1:59 AM

^

Quill

Ha. Polyfills are what we had before we had consistent language implementations

quartata

@Downgoat How about .find?

Downgoat

oh i like that +1

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@Quill I know what a polyfill is, because we still don't have consistent language implementations. but what is a pollyfill instance?

Quill

for example, .includes is basically .indexOf(whatever) !== -1 but we had to polyfill includes before it was included in the browsers

Maltysen

2:01 AM

@Downgoat why is cheddar so big, its taking 15 minutes to delete it >_<

Downgoat

Please more suggestions for Cheddar STDLIB

@Maltysen that's not cheddar

that's probably babel

LegionMammal978

Anyone know how to get the number of full moons from 01 Jan 1970 to 07 Jun 8148?

Downgoat

you're on windows so you have to do dev build rather than production :P

Cᴏɴᴏʀ O'Bʀɪᴇɴ

@LegionMammal978 123124.00000027

LegionMammal978

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ ?

Quill

2:02 AM

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ I just meant polyfills in general not anything special by the term "instances"

Downgoat

@LegionMammal978 days / 29

LegionMammal978

@Downgoat A 100% accurate number

Quill

> (responses not "detailed" enough (I have a filter) will be discarded) *

wait you seriously have a filter

LegionMammal978

That will stay current for the next few dozen millenia or so

Downgoat

@LegionMammal978 there is one full moon every 29 days. I remember Neil deGrasse Tyson saying it

LegionMammal978

2:03 AM

> neil the grass tyson

:/

Maltysen

KILL YOURSELF IE, WHY DON'T YOU LET ME DOWNLOAD THINGS

El'endia Starman

@LegionMammal978 That's a weirdly specific question...

LegionMammal978

@Maltysen A fix: <message failed to download>

@El'endiaStarman Really any arbitrary date

Most services only last till ~2100 or so

And suncalc.js is too complicated for me to trust (and uses a book as reference)

Quill

@LegionMammal978 sounds like a good challenge

Maltysen

@Downgoat npm is giving me some warnings about things being outdated/deprecated

Downgoat

2:11 AM

ignore it npm is stupid

Maltysen

it also said that the fsevents optional dependency failed

Quill

@Maltysen every project has dependencies, and those dependencies have dependencies

so when any dependency is outdated, npm like to moan about it

Downgoat

@CᴏɴᴏʀO'Bʀɪᴇɴ @Quill do you know how to charCodeAt() with surrogates?

Quill

I know charCodeAt, I have no idea what these surrogates are

Downgoat

there some weird unicode thing. They make strings a pain in ass in javascript

wait i wrote blog post on it nvm

blog.vihan.org/index.php/2016/05/31/…

Quill

2:17 AM

ಠ_ಠ

Downgoat

nvm still not helpinf

>This may seem like an odd way to encode characters, but if you look at the binary representation it might look more clear:
1101100000111101 1101111000000000

even I didn't know what the binary representation meant

wtf

hahahahahaha

._.

apparently the conversation topic was the brexit

Downgoat

2:21 AM

May 19 at 23:14, by Quill

no context is best context

quartata

That message was from yesterday, did it just get flagged?

Quill

earlier today, like a few hours ago

Downgoat

cheddar> "😀".ord(0)
128512

\o/ Cheddar unicode support works

quartata

Finally got around to enabling Steam Mobile Authenticator. it was easier than I thought

Great. Apparently you have to have it enabled for 7 days. nevermind

rip doing any trading during the summer sale

Quill

2:36 AM

Is the Steam Controller available for purchase in the US?

quartata

yes

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Why not just trade on PC?

quartata

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan Not how it works

You can't trade at all unless your account is secured by the mobile authenticator

Quill

RIP it's still not available for purchase in Australia ;-;

quartata

Actually strike that. You can trade but there's a 14 day hold.

Basically makes it possible

The Mobile Authenticator means you have to pull out your phone and enter this code that pops up every time you do a trade/log in/whatever

Normally wouldn't be a problem but my SMS plan is horrible and at first I misunderstood how the authenticator worked. I thought it sent you a text message every time which would have been very problematic

turns out it just pops up in the steam mobile app

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

2:39 AM

@quartata that's stupid

quartata

Yeah, really is.

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@Quill that's also stupid

quartata

I personally think that the mobile authenticator is less secure than the old way which was via email

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

What games do you play?

quartata

steamcommunity.com/id/xpxh4pi

Quill

2:43 AM

Hmm, I might pick up Wolfenstein: The New Order

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@Quill I recommend it. I had a lot of fun.

You need a beastly PC though.

quartata

I can guarantee it won't be as fun as the original Wolfenstien 3D

Quill

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan I'm planning to buy a new one soon. A windows desktop even

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

But you can play the original inside of TNO.

quartata

Whoa.

Quill

2:45 AM

I'll be betraying my Mac cult

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Oh, nice. Exciting! Are you building or buying?

Downgoat

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan >_> I was gonna build a PC but it was very expensive so I just got a Mac

Quill

Building, although I've been warned not to build my first computer as an expensive computer

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

@Downgoat that's so backwards. Macs are expensive af

Downgoat

Time = Money meaning Building a Computer = $$$$$$$$$

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

2:49 AM

1 hour = $$$$$$?

Downgoat

idk ive never build computer so itll probably take me some time

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

It probably takes longer to pick the parts than it does to assemble them. At least IME

Downgoat

yeah and they are so many parts i have no idea which ones to get

and they all come from these odd retailers ive never heard of

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Really only 3 or 4 parts are the most important to get the right ones.

The rest only compatibility matters IMO

Downgoat

cheddar> "foo🐐🐏🐑".chars
["f", "o", "o", "🐐", "🐏", "🐑"]

\o/ \o/ \o/

cheddar unicode support is best unicode support

oh hey that means getters work too :D

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

2:55 AM

@Quill What's your budget ballpark? What parts are you leaning towards?

Quill

I really know very little about the quality of individual parts, but around $3000 AUD

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Sorry if I'm pestering, I just really like building/talking about building pc's

What are you mostly going to use it for?

If it's a gaming pc, you should get a gtx 1080

Quill

Bit of everything, but gaming is important :)

is two good graphics cards better than one great graphics card?

Downgoat

@Quill probably

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

No, one is definitely better. Lower TDP and easier to upgrade down the road.

Downgoat

3:04 AM

cheddar> var a = IO.prompt('Name? ');
Name? Downgoat
cheddar> for (var i = 0; i < a.length; i=i+1) { print a.ord(i) }
68
111
119
110
103
111
97
116

:^) cheddar has gone so far

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Also not al programs/games support SLI well.

Downgoat

@DrGreenEggsandIronMan wait wat really?

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

Unfortunately, yeah. Although it's usually the shitty developers that write bad PC ports in the first place. cough Rocksteady cough

Downgoat

3:35 AM

> AN ERROR OCCURRED, U DONE MESSED UP. FIX IT NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW FIXED IT NOW!

10/10 best error message

Quill

But did you fix it?

Downgoat

yeah

O_O regex match is faster than Symbol.iterator

  Numbers
    addition

sigh wat now

Dr Green Eggs and Iron Man

v.tryitonline.net/#code=w4DDsTXDqWk&input=&args=OA

Downgoat

3:50 AM

@Quill is it good idea to overwrite process.stdin.write >_> idk how else to get test IO.printf

Quill

sure, just handle it like console.log and console.error, take the variable, make a mock version to record input, and then reassign it

Downgoat

I think we should switch back to babel-istanbul >_> everything worked better with babel-istanbul

Statements   : 77.55% ( 2932/3781 )
Branches     : 55.25% ( 1226/2219 )
Functions    : 84.38% ( 513/608 )
Lines        : 81.97% ( 1968/2401 )

Q_____Q

Quill

then swap back

Downgoat

eh, then I'll write the new tests in ES6, which will make it harder if I descide to swap back. I'll just try to solve this i guess

ohhhh, the tests are being run on the .js files now wat

Downgoat

4:12 AM

@Quill do you know what the -u exports flag does on istanbul?

Quill

nope

Downgoat

can't find any docs on it ;_;

Maltysen

@Downgoat exports u to istanbul

>_>

Downgoat

ಠ_ಠ animals should not be treated like objects

Jun 10 at 20:24, by Eᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏ Iʀᴋ

stop-discrimination-against-animals

Error: invalid reporter "src/test/**/*.js"

@Quill do you know what I'm doing wrong?:

$ ./node_modules/.bin/babel-node ./node_modules/.bin/babel-istanbul cover _mocha -- -u exports -R src/test/**/*.js

Quill

that's not a valid file, selector

what does R do?

Downgoat

4:25 AM

I think it means recursive. I couldn't find any docs

Quill

@Downgoat that's already enabled in test/mocha.opts

You don't need to specify the file path because it's recursive

Downgoat

oh okay

hm :/

ohhh, the path in globals.js was pointing to dist/ instead of src/

> No coverage information was collected, exit without writing coverage information

\o/ \o/ got it to work

Maltysen

4:51 AM

@Downgoat your install failed

make gave some error

Downgoat

can you paste it in the Cheddar room?

Cheddar

For discussion of the design and development of the Cheddar pr...

Maltysen

@Downgoat done

Cheddar

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