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12:00 AM
Nope, it seems to be a 'normal' economy
 
@Dennis Bubblegum seems to be broken on tryitonline.net right now; I get the error "xxd: sorry, cannot seek backwards." if I turn on debugging
I guess I should just run it locally
 
What are you inputting? The xxd dump?
 
Are you pasting the raw file? TIO expects a hexdump from xxd.
 
There's EVE Online if it hasn't been mentioned already.
 
you mean troll-networks-incorporated?
 
12:04 AM
I'm not sure what you mean by "Bitcoin-like economy"
 
I assume spending money on stuff and trading and selling said stuff
 
@JamesHolderness wraparound quines do satisfy the definition because something in the code needs needs encode the quote.
 
@PhiNotPi ie there is a maximal number of coins, and the value of a coin increase when there are less available
 
@ais523 I have considered making this part of the definition in the past (and I'll dig up a link for you over the next days) but I remember having trouble to get it into an objective definition for some reason.
(probably mostly because some languages defy your usual notions of syntax)
 
Hey, anybody wanna build an open-source realistic economy game together?
 
12:07 AM
no
because tf2 is already a thing
 
Realistic enough so that real life economics can be applied to it.
 
TF2 isn't OS
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ The focus is not on trading.
 
it's on making an economy, right?
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ?
 
12:08 AM
Yo
 
what's the point of it then?
to emulate an economy?
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ I mean tf2 does not focus on trading.
 
literally half the people who play are just in it for the money
 
@MartinEnder well, I wrote a language in which executing any program not only typically modifies the program itself, but also changes the definition of the language…
 
12:08 AM
1. Work
2. Sell
3. Apply economics
4. ???
5. Profit.
Corner the market.
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ But it's real life money
Closed
 
so?
it's basically it's own little mini-economy
it's got inputs and outputs into the real world economy, but not much
 
hmm, the Bubblegum implementation doesn't seem to like the output of zlib-flate -compress
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Too risky for some people to try out
 
maybe zlib compression and DEFLATE aren't identical
although Wikipedia thinks they are
 
@ais523 :O
gimme specs
 
12:13 AM
luckily, nobody's implemented it yet
 
> luckily
 
(and each implementation is supposed to diverge from the others, rather than the original language changing, so it'd be less of a problem)
 
Programming in Snowflake seems painful
 
programming in most esolangs is painful
you people with your golfing languages have been spoiled :-P
hmm, I just had an idea: a Snowflake interpreter that works as a Stack Snippet
and edits the answer containing it to have the new program and interpreter, as well as the byte count in the header
 
How would it modify itself?
 
12:16 AM
if the program is written well enough, it'll eventually golf itself down to one byte as people with high enough rep execute the program to see it in action
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ehhhh
I wouldn't say that per se. Unless you're operating something like scrap.tf making money is hard. Making hats on the other hand is easy
 
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ ...
no
 
@MartinEnder What if the wraparound quine read the quote from the source code?
That is a fairly typical way to generate a quote in Befunge.
 
How the **** is getting the hostname of a URL so hard in JS
 
@ais523 Not golfing languages
 
12:18 AM
139
Q: How do I parse a URL into hostname and path in javascript?

freddiefujiwaraI would like to take a string var a = "http://example.com/aa/bb/" and process it into an object such that a.hostname == "example.com" and a.pathname == "/aa/bb"

 
@TuxCopter As I said, you people with your golfing languages have been spoiled :-D
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC How's Miniconomy?
 
@ais523 ;-;
But golfing languages are cool
 
that said, some languages, such as Incident (my CALESYTA submission), were intentionally created as puzzles (in addition to potential minor PPCG utility, in the case of Incident)
 
They are rep-magnet
@ais523 Incident?
 
12:20 AM
esolangs.org/wiki/Incident; its purpose is to (very verbosely, but less verbosely than Lenguage) allow you to write programs under conditions that have become way too harsh
(it's also good at polyglots, assuming you don't care about the length)
 
> The basic rule is that the tokens for a particular program are the substrings that appear exactly three times in it.
wat
 
I told you it was good at handling restricted source conditions
 
@Qwerp-Derp Fun, realistic, trade-oriented
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Why do you posted þis in?
 
@TuxCopter ... :/
 
12:24 AM
?
 
Yay, got the bronze -badge:)
 
Golfing languages are rep magnet. Proof
 
@TuxCopter ???
 
Þ is an ænglisc letter which is pronounced /θ/
 
I don't necessarily disagree with the statement, but I don't think that's a good reason for liking golfing languages
 
12:26 AM
It's a code-golf site, so I can golf my sentences :P
 
@TuxCopter Well...
 
@TuxCopter just because you aren't doesn't mean many people aren't
 
118
A: "Hello, World!"

georgeunixPHP, 13 bytes Hello, World! Yes. It works.

 
@quartata you can buy quicksell unusuals and sell them for full price
 
I like golfing languages, because in the way it's the ultimate programming puzzle: how do you create a language which can boil problems down to their essences, expressing only what makes them unique, rather than having a bunch of boilerplate?
that said, I don't like certain things
 
12:27 AM
@EᴀsᴛᴇʀʟʏIʀᴋ Getting money out of TF2 is very hard though.
 
@Dennis I love how the comment about PHP being really confusing has more votes than the answer
 
such as exploiting the "input can be in any reasonable format" rule via inferring the data type of the input from its syntax
 
Non golfing languages do that.
 
Like using eval for getting input?
 
Such as python2
 
12:28 AM
This is actually fairly common
 
I like how most people associate PHP automatically with HTML, as if you were forced to use it within a web server.
 
Yeah, exactly like that. In python 2 input() == eval(raw_input())
 
@TuxCopter I consider that an exploit too; you could never do it safely in a practical program
 
One of Python 2's many crimes.
 
@ais523 We are in PPCG, not in a production environment
 
12:29 AM
@Dennis I run it offline when I need to test something in PHP, but am typically confounded by its insistence on semicolons
 
But good for golf. ;)
 
@ais523 Yes, that's the aspect I like about them as well, plus the fact that it usually allows for approaches which otherwise wouldn't be remotely short enough to be considered. But I just don't like how they seem to be disproportionately voted higher on count of brevity alone.
 
I wonder what natural language has the most information/byte. There are already information/syllable data out there.
 
@Sp3000 it's best if you don't consider the votes on PPCG to be indicative of anything, really
 
That's... true, unfortunately :/
 
12:31 AM
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC A conlang, not natural, but lel en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ithkuil
obvious phonemes are even ommited
 
Let's wait for the complaint from GitHub...
 
@mınxomaτ Social Engineering again
 
I just pushed the source code of my 4GB HTML framework.
 
'night
 
12:33 AM
@mınxomaτ aaaand who is going to include 4GB in their site?
@TuxCopter Chinese has very few grammatical symbols - no "a", "the", "is", or past tense unless explicit
*past tense can be explicitly said by appending a single character
Too bad the encoding isn't good
 
That's not how frameworks work. This is all the source, all templates and all tests. It get's gulp'ed before being put on a server.
 
@mınxomaτ Where is it?
 
Oh wow, I just started building CryEngine 5 and my whole computer suddenly slowed down to a crawl....
Oh man, it's multi-threaded. Seriously?
It's spawned like 8 compile jobs at once
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC It's private.
 
Closing Portal 2 helped a little
 
12:38 AM
@quartata I should do that too...
 
@mınxomaτ Enterprise?
 
Yep
 
Hi
I wish I could enter the fellowships koth :(
 
soundcloud.com/epicmountain/… > go to 1:20 > ahhhh that music
All the comments are "this music is sooo awesome"
The harmonic violin mixing with the great plot of the music
@mınxomaτ Any tools you'd reccomend? You seem like the kind of guy that would have good tools just because of all the time spent online...
 
12:58 AM
Well that would be one hell of a list.
 
I reccomend Typora esp. - very good markdown editor for everyday notetaking.
@mınxomaτ Top 5?
WYSIWYG, effective, Markdown
Good for checklists, sometimes even reports
 
I bought Markdownpad, because it's the best Markdown editor for me.
For writing docs, not note taking though.
 
Typora is all-purpose, many good themes, and it is WYSIWYG in a way so that if your cursor hovers over formatted elements it shows the source
Will look at Markdownpad.
@mınxomaτ I think you should maybe try typora, from what it looks it's superior to Markdownpad. HTML export, clean editor, diagramming + GHFM support (not the author :P)
(oh it's me pushing products like I'm some kind of marketer again)
 
It's less busy now here than I expected
 
I have no reason to switch from MDP to something else. It does everything what I need perfectly.
 
1:05 AM
Mostly a clean writing exp. is what it offers - the left and right panels are merged well
Less UI clutter.
 
Oh no, I would not like that at all.
 
There's literally your document and nothing else
 
That's exactly what I'm not looking for.
 
@mınxomaτ You still type markdown source
Why not?
 
That doesn't work for me - simple as that. The same way I use SciTE and a few scripts instead of any IDE.
 
1:07 AM
I understand.
(I won't get into an editor war either)
 
Yes, let's not do that.
 
Obviously you know what you're doing.
You've probably tried any/all suggestions I have.
# tabs open now, minxomat?
116 on my poor early computer :P
 
TNB, GitHub, YouTube and the cling docs.
 
1:10 AM
clap clap clap clap clap
Been working with C++, eh?
zsh > bash
Oh you use windows
 
I'm currently away with a small Windows netbook (32bit). So I use zsh and clang to work on a larger C project.
 
So many laptops
Not useful <---------[--]--------> Social Awkwardness

Press space when the fast moving cursor is in the box to send a message!
 
I really like this one, because the battery last forever. And it's red. It's hard to find nice laptops that have a good paintjob.
 
Battery last forever is nice. What do you do to work around incompatibility? (you have to be able to do that otherwise it's not worth it, if my cost-benefit analysis is right; oh forgot to not pass --verbose to me)
 
What do you mean with incompatibility?
 
1:15 AM
Most (*some) dev tools don't work on windows
Social Awkwardness <------------[---]--------> Social Awkwardness

Press space when the fast moving cursor is in the box to send a message!
 
I'm using cygwin with the babun frontend. So full unix/POSIX. I don't have any problems.
 
++1 windows experience
The Nineteenth Byte training session complete! You were socially awkward 70% of the time! (reduced from 100%) /s
 
Only thing that's missing is local threads in C11 (because the cygwin libc is a bit crap sometimes) and hidden attributes in GAS (so no musl). But cyg performance really skyrocketed over the years.
 
Previously thought cygwin was minimmal
 
Well, yes.
babun comes with pact, a sort-of-pacman-like package manager. So I just track my .babun directory with GitHub, so I can quickly install my favorite unix environment on any windows PC. A kinda makeshift docker.
 
1:21 AM
(...) // reaction is (WoahMixIn, WatMixIn, WoahYouHaveAWorkaroundForEverythingButIAlreadySaidThat)
man-preview is a Mac OS X zsh plugin that opens manpages in pdf form.
(unrelated)
@mınxomaτ Why not change the OS to not windows? Some hardware limitation?
 
This laptop has 2G RAM, it doesn't really like PDFs. I tried to read the final version of Modern C, but Chrome constantly runs out of memory.
 
CHATBOT: WARN: too many questions
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Didn't I answer that a few hours ago?
 
?
Surely manpages would be small enough
Also 2GB memory. That truly baffles me.
You are some kind of setup/workflow ninja
 
3 hours ago, by mınxomaτ
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Because this thing doesn't really support linux. Even with Debian (which is the only distro that supports mixed UEFI bitness), I'd still need to build my own drivers for Wifi, battery and sound.
 
1:23 AM
Oh I remember now
 
I had debian on it with a WiFi patch, but not knowing when your battery runs out is really annoying. Also no sound - and USB soundcards are still huge.
The speakers on this 11 inch laptop are remarkable. So is the keyboard.
 
What's a quick and oft-eaten german dish?
It sounds like somebody made their own Apple, Inc.
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC Well that varies from state to state.
 
@mınxomaτ Nationwide? Like, what do they sell at the fast-food?
 
Well, the usual suspects like McDonalds, BK, Subway etc. But I think the most popular fast food here, which actually qualifies as food, is Döner.
 
1:28 AM
> McDonalds, BK, Subway
They have that in Germany?
I thought those were purely american; TIL I guess
McDonalds sure, but BK?
 
Burger King really is utter crap here.
 
German hamburgers better than american ones?
We like to add bacon; have you heard of a BLT?
 
They are the same, at least at the fast-food chains - because they are worldwide standards.
 
Any local fast-food chains? (McD and BK are huge!)
 
Not really. Not that feasible with just 80 million people.
 
1:31 AM
Domino's is apparently much more diverse, they change the food to mix american and local styles
@mınxomaτ That's less than the US State I live in
(still worse than germany probably)
 
You will still find dozens of Döner / Kebab stores per city here.
 
Just for one dish? Wow.
 
Based around one dish, but yeah.
 
Disclosure: We have chains just for coffee. e.g. Starbucks.
 
Well, of course we do have Starbucks. These are all global franchises.
 
1:34 AM
No wonder people hate americanization
++100 horizon wideness
 
Food gets exported everywhere. When I worked in Taiwan, I regularly ate at Starbucks, KFC and even a German(-inspired) burger place in Taipei.
 
That is disturbing and yet relaxing at the same time.
 
The Verts chain sells the closest thing to a German Döner in the US.
 
We have IKEA in America
How many times have you been in the US?
 
IKEA, again, is a global franchise.
 
1:37 AM
I know, just saying
 
I've never been to the US. I'd need a new passport first (it's not clean).
 
Come and see our shithole....
 
Fun fact: Australia doesn't technically have a Burger King franchise :)
 
Come and see the extremely large Trump protests cough cough riots cough cough
 
Also while most fast food chains are similar globally, ingredient sourcing and partial localisation means there are some differences, e.g. rice being on the menu in Maccas China
 
1:38 AM
Even if I could get a clean passport, it probably wouldn't be a pleasant experience at the border ;-)
 
Huh?
Because of the wall?
 
@Sp3000 Yeah, well, everything is a bit smaller at fast-food chains here.
 
Germany's in South America, right?
/s
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC No, because I did business with embargoed countries. Fun fact: This is enough to put you on a terror watchlist - which is what happened to one of my business partners. That entry took months to clear.
 
@mınxomaτ What have you been doing in Nortk Korea?? Selling security software?? /s
 
1:41 AM
Because the US largely privatized the maintenance of these lists, and they are copied world-wide without being checked. This is just insane.
 
Going to torpoject.org is enough to put you on a terror watchlist, correct?
@mınxomaτ What country did you do business with? And with the state or with people?
 
That's all I can say.
 
Yup, you did business with Cuba, North Korea, Syria, or Iran.
> I cannot confirm nor deny that statement
It's like you're some holy legal mafia boss software-lord
Conversation topics: Fast food -> Terror watchlists and doing business with "..." regimes
Moving on now....
 
...to sleep. It's almost 3AM here.
 
ok den
I have no idea what just happened but it sounded like it was about Burger King and Terrorism
Aha! My extension has officially entered pre-alpha! (It does what it needs to do hardcoded and without any UI)
rdt.x redirects to reddit.com
 
@mınxomaτ has a terrifyingly interesting life
9
 
@Lynn BK... no entry to US... because of business with dictatorial regimes... gonna go to sleep...
 
2:18 AM
Hi, @Downgoat. Read the transcript. It's juicy.
 
Oh my an entire project... just for syntax highlighting!
 
@ais523 100/10 this is more than genius idea
 
Looks really good though
@Downgoat You have a knack for Good-looking UI Design
 
0
Q: Should a command line argument for increasing memory limits count towards byte/character count?

SoniEx2Most Java interpreters have a predefined memory limit. However, it's a -X setting - an implementation specific setting. With C, the call stack is usually heavily limited. There's usually a compiler setting to increase this limit. This is implementation-specific and as far as the C spec is concer...

 
2:21 AM
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC :D
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC ok that is good
monokai in dark mode turned out to have a slight green tinge but i dont think it's that bad
 
@Downgoat ...m..aybe..I could ask you to suggest changes to a UI for a thing I'm making (oh god the awkardness) (this is way too early, it doesn't even exist yet :P)
@Downgoat didja read the transcript?
 
ok? i think? idk :P
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC no seems long >_>
@KritixiLithos +1 for using chedddar
ok wow i haven't been here in a while
while = 1-2 days
 

Minxomat deals with embargoed nations

45 mins ago, 5 minutes total – 14 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked 12 secs ago by noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC

 
@Downgoat the command line arguments thing scrolls if they're more than two characters long (moderately common with Perl)
 
> Fun fact: This is enough to put you on a terror watchlist
O_o
 
2:25 AM
also, how do you provide input?
 
@ais523 huh :/ I thought it would auto-expand
@ais523 CRAP
 
totally forgot that >_>
be right back
 
I'm on Chromium, in case that matters
 
ok probably does, works on safari and chrome and firefox
 
2:25 AM
> Embargoed sanctions (CRIMEA - REGION OF UKRAINE, CUBA, IRAN, NORTH KOREA, SUDAN, and SYRIA)
> No, because I did business with embargoed countries.
 
@ais523 are any error in console?
 
@Downgoat failure to load favicon, no other errors shown
 
@noɥʇʎPʎzɐɹC wait wat
the point of embargo/sanction is to not do trade/buisness
 
@Downgoat Read. The. Bookmarked. Conversation.
 
nah
 
2:30 AM
@Downgoat Nice! You should turn off autocorrect et al. on your textareas though.
 
someone please tell firefox that it's not cool to be completely different from every other browser
 
@Downgoat Minxomat has done business with "CRIMEA - REGION OF UKRAINE, CUBA, IRAN, NORTH KOREA, SUDAN, or SYRIA"
 
ok i got that much
@Dennis autocorrect should be off. what browser are you using?
 
I have a bigger empire than most other people of my age (still a very small empire)
 
@Downgoat I just looked at the source code; I've turned off autocorrect in the system settings. Auto-capitalization is definitely on in Chrome for Android though.
 
2:32 AM
huh, it should be off internally
 
Also, Jelly doesn't seem to work at all. Unicode issue?
 
crap. Must be the UTF-8 encoding >_> I thought i just fixed that yesterday
can you give me an example Hello World for jelly?
 
“Hello, World!”
“Hi” prints 1, just like Hi would, so it looks like the quotes get stripped.
 
@Dennis wait, why wouldn't it print "Hi"?
AFAIR it's a valid string literal
 
Because Downgoat's UTF-8 encoding is broken.
 
2:42 AM
oh, I see, you're talking about Downgoat's site, not the actual language
 
@Dennis does Jelly ignore any characters not in it's charset?
 
Yes.
 
aha
 
Your CLAs also seem to be broken. An empty Jelly program you echo the first CLA.
 
yeah, those aren't really passed since i need to dissect TIO array format more
 
2:45 AM
Also, how do you add additional CLAs?
 
once i bother to implement them i'll probably just use like what most sh do to seperate CLAs using '..' and "..." and non-whitespace as CLAs
perhaps once I add input box I'll add nicer CLA input
ok well encoding is fixed :D
but now to add inputting
 
@Downgoat Try 🐐 in ///.
 
am i doing a pytohn correctly?
 
No.
 
@Dennis oh no goat gets mangled D:
 
2:52 AM
You need print(input()) in Python 3, print raw_input() in Python 2.
 
ok thanks :)
 
@Downgoat Yeah, of all TIO clients, yours should treat goats properly. :P
 
;_; how could I do this to brethren
 
Fyi, the correct value for autocapitalize is none, not off.
Does anybody know what happened to ASCII-only/somebody1234?
 
no idea :| I wanted to ping earlier this week but he's not been on for quite a while
 
3:00 AM
Not since Nov 19, at least on main.
 
on GH also off-grid
maybe it's like finals week or something for him
:D
 
+1 for working I/O, -1000000 for GAOT.
 
:(
To be fair I have stopped doing ";_; y u"s and "pls halp" and "gaot say hai" stuff in TNB
 
And I appreciate it. (But like most diseases, it has already spread.)
 
Request: can someone make SVG of PPCG logo
i tried to trace it but got a bunch or artifacts
@Dennis probably already requested but maybe sort TIO languages by popularity?
ok time to do permalink
 
3:18 AM
Wouldn't that make finding languages a lot more difficult?
 
not with a search box :P >_>
 
3:31 AM
@Dennis btw. instead of using an array of order-sensitive items. I'd reccomend using BSON with compressed key/values to be more portable imho
 
You should sort the languages lexically by the md5sum of their names
 
O_o
 
Hey, I get to rag on you... I did after all sneak a goat into my last challenge
And nobody mentioned the goat but you're welcome
 
@HWalters :O BRB UPGOATING UPVOTING
@Dennis btw, do you mind explaining to me what .replace(/\+/g, "@").replace(/=+/, ""); does?
 
Replace + with @ and trailing = with nothing.
 
3:36 AM
oh ok, thanks
 

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