The Nineteenth Byte

Rainbolt

12:10 AM

@Geobits pulls out the old "posts to destroy when granted power" list

Alex A.

@trichoplax Your dedication to whatever it is you're doing impresses me!

trichoplax

You mean trying to learn Blender for my text golf?

Alex A.

Yes

trichoplax

I've got it to display the shape I wanted, but now I find out I had to set the number of vertices at the start otherwise I have to start all over again :(

Alex A.

Have you done much modeling?

TanMath

12:17 AM

Hey all, I have come back after a long time.. @trichoplax remember me? We talked about enural networks and genetic algorithims..

BTW, what happened to the monthly challenges? Which one was the most recent one?

Alex A.

Hello! I have never seen you before in my life!

I'm Alex and I pretty much just troll chat.

I have nothing useful to add in any given situation.

trichoplax

I remember talking about neural networks and genetic algorithms. Did you have a different name?

The weekly challenges became fortnightly challenges and then stopped due to missing a few

Alex A.

@TanMath started as PaleMath but stayed out in the sun too long.

trichoplax

:)

@AlexA. I've never used Blender before. My experience is up to an hour or so this evening

TanMath

@trichoplax Yep..

@trichoplax BTW, I have discovered a lotn neural networks by just searching neural networks on stack overflow

Alex A.

12:21 AM

@trichoplax Then you've used it more than I have and I've been trying to work on software that runs on the Blender game engine. Haha.

trichoplax

Apart from trying to build a raytracer in QBasic and later in Python, I have no modelling experience (and they were just spheres)

Alex A.

I mean visual 3D modeling, like Blender, Maya, etc.

trichoplax

Nope - this is my first time

Alex A.

It's overrated. :P

trichoplax

Ooh - I found the Python console in Blender - hopefully this means I don't have to repeat everything from scratch...

Alex A.

12:24 AM

Yeah it has a Python console. The Blender UI bugs me so much though.

trichoplax

I don't find dragging things around fun but if I can write a Python script to do all the work for me I'll be happy

Alex A.

You can do neat stuff with the Python interface.

Agreed :)

@trichoplax Are you a microbiologist? You answered that for me once before but I can't recall what you said. :/

trichoplax

I'm really not :)

Alex A.

Ah, okay. What do you do?

trichoplax

Basic admin (I'm not a programmer)

Alex A.

12:32 AM

Like systems administration?

trichoplax

No, really basic - pushing buttons - an end user

Alex A.

Ah, okay. So programming is just a hobby?

trichoplax

It's something I'm very interested in, but I don't have the knowledge or experience to do it as a living.

Alex A.

Do you like being an admin?

trichoplax

Nope :)

Alex A.

12:34 AM

Oh! Alright. Haha. Are you looking to change careers, perhaps get into programming?

trichoplax

That would be good. I'd need to get programming experience somehow first though.

Alex A.

Open source contributions are good

Digital Trauma

I started in test and moved to development

trichoplax

@AlexA. That's a good idea. I'm considering that

Alex A.

If you want some education in the area, take a look at Coursera. They have a bunch of free online classes.

Digital Trauma

12:36 AM

I thought that I didn't have enough programming experience

Alex A.

@DigitalTrauma Like software testing?

trichoplax

@DigitalTrauma Is test easier to get into as a stepping stone?

Digital Trauma

yes

trichoplax

Interesting

Alex A.

And now you do software dev?

Digital Trauma

12:37 AM

possibly - I think at least in the company I work for (fortune 500 networks vendor)

yes

Alex A.

Oh nice!

Digital Trauma

I thought that I didn't have enough programming experience

until I became a devb

Alex A.

Then you were thrust into the world of programming head first? :P

Digital Trauma

and then realised plenty of devs have far less knowledge/expertise/whatever

Alex A.

^ truth

Digital Trauma

12:38 AM

not saying I'm at the top of the heap or anything

but I think there are plenty underneath ;-)

Alex A.

Right, but there's always someone below

I assume you're all Linux all the time, @DigitalTrauma, given your apparent love of Bash and DC.

Digital Trauma

you'd be surprised at the quality (or lack thereof) of some of the code I see

yes, most of the time. Actually most of the time I'm doing c

Alex A.

I'm the resident programmer in a group of statisticians. Some of the code I see... shudder

Digital Trauma

shell-scripting is just a (useful) side-interest really

Alex A.

(A lot of it is mine)

Digital Trauma

12:41 AM

;-)

Alex A.

Does that ever happen to you? "Dear god, I wrote this?"

Digital Trauma

previously a proprietary embedded OS

but yes these days almost exclusively Linux

with wild swings between kernel and userspace ;-)

BrainSteel

@AlexA. You have tons of useful things to add to every situation!

Also, I'm back.

Alex A.

@BrainSteel I appreciate you saying that, but I reget to inform you that it is in fact false. :P

@BrainSteel Hello

Digital Trauma

@AlexA. more than I'd care to admit

Alex A.

12:44 AM

:)

BrainSteel

A cheery smile is enough!

Cheery? Cheery???

Umm... Jolly?

JOLLY??

Uh oh.

Blimey?

Alex A.

12:53 AM

Crikey mate

BrainSteel

Oi, mumsy?

What about a keen smile?

Alex A.

Uh. Okay.

BrainSteel

Splendid!

Alex A.

You should come play Minecraft with us again sometime, @BrainSteel.

BrainSteel

Is... Is the chicken toilet still there?

Alex A.

12:57 AM

It is. There have been some... issues.

BrainSteel

Err... I may have to check in soon.

Alex A.

Yes, even if only to come hang out. :)

BrainSteel

As long as my beautiful monument to the gods has remained tall, all is well.

Alex A.

The big tower? @PhiNotPi put a flag on it.

BrainSteel

That was kind of him. I should send him a pig.

Alex A.

1:01 AM

Haha

BrainSteel

We are getting so many flag competitions! THIS IS MADNESS!

Alex A.

@BrainSteel Things that are in context in rural villages and Minecraft only.

@BrainSteel Thanks for pointing that out. -1.

BrainSteel

Hahaha, don't we have a chat room for that? :P

New Main Posts

0

Q: Print the Flag of the Arab Revolt!

It seems flags are a trend now, so what better place to start an account? I thought bars could use a twist to them, so I found this flag. Produce the following in the console output the fewest possible bytes: +----------------------------------+ |XXXXX | |XXXXXXXX ...

Alex A.

^^ WHY IS THIS A TREND NOW

BrainSteel

1:06 AM

Ahhhh, my comment is no longer relevant but the two votes are so hard to get rid of...

Alex A.

Don't you already have Pundit?

If you want I can flag it as obsolete. ;)

BrainSteel

What is Pundit?

Alex A.

Silver badge for getting a bunch of comments with >= 5 votes

BrainSteel

O_o I do not see such a badge.

Alex A.

Really? I have it... Okay, now I have to look

BrainSteel

1:11 AM

I'm watching you >.>

Alex A.

Yeah I looked and I have it

In Badges, under Participation, underneath Commentator

BrainSteel

Indeed you do. I call shenanigans.

Doorknob

@AlexA. someone should make a challenge to draw it

(don't do that :P)

BrainSteel

The great Doorknob has spoken! Write the challenge, men!

Alex A.

Haha

Dad #1

BrainSteel

1:24 AM

Who is Dad #2?

Alex A.

Martin, of course!

They're moddads.

BrainSteel

Does that make PeterTaylor Dad #3?

Alex A.

He's honorary dad

Step dad

BrainSteel

Perhaps... A godfather.

PhiNotPi

I found out some interesting trivia facts about flags.

One of them involves the US flag. Most flags have a "aspect ratio" of 2:3 or 1:2, maybe 3:4 or 3:5. The US flag is 10:19.

BrainSteel

1:40 AM

Is there a reason why?

PhiNotPi

It doesn't really have any foundation in the flag design itself (the stripes really could be made as long or short as they wanted), but had to do with the physical size of the fabric they used to make it.

Alex A.

Blame Betsy Ross

PhiNotPi

Flag proportions used to not always be set exactly, and varied over time, and it got set to whatever shape other flags were in the later 1700s.

Alex A.

Why do you know so much about flags? Just from the TED talk?

PhiNotPi

There's also some other trivia facts about the French flag.

BrainSteel

1:48 AM

Well, you see, this SE site is rapidly becoming a site about flags... Might as well do your research.

PhiNotPi

Some of it is from reddit.com/r/vexillology

aditsu

speaking of flags, this was quite fun: youtube.com/watch?v=pnv5iKB2hl4

Alex A.

@BrainSteel Programming Puzzles and Flag Golf

aditsu

oh, already mentioned, nevermind

BrainSteel

Flags are actually an integral part of golfing, in some ways.

PhiNotPi

1:49 AM

For example, there are two official color blues for the French flag.

There's the normal blue, but then there's dark blue.

The normal one is for most public uses, the darker one is mainly for the navy/military.

And then the bizarre thing is in the flag proportions.

The normal flag is has the three color bands in the ratio of 1:1:1.

BrainSteel

Write a program that outputs the correct color blue of the French flag... Teeheehee...

PhiNotPi

The naval flag has bands in the ratio of 30:33:37

Alex A.

Write a challenge that outputs a flag popularity-contest flag patriotism

Alex A.

2:07 AM

@Calvin'sHobbies You left MC!

I was trying to convince @BrainSteel to come back but he'd rather "teach" "things" to "people."

Calvin's Hobbies

uh

New Main Posts

0

Q: Insta-Name... Just Add Coder!

In the English language, a surefire way to make a pronounceable nonsense letter combination is to make it entirely out of consonant- vowel pairs, e. g., Wu ko pa ha, or, Me fa ro. The challenge of this simple challenge is to code a program that will, with the user specifying the number of letter...

code-golf

Alex A.

2:30 AM

^ No flags! :D

trichoplax

I know - hence the close votes

Alex A.

Haha

After all, this is Programming Flags and Flag Flag.

trichoplax

Vexillology Puzzles and Flag Golf

Calvin's Hobbies

I'm writing a non-flag question

4

trichoplax

Yay!

(no I didn't know that word I looked it up)

(not yay)

Alex A.

2:32 AM

Haha :)

trichoplax

I'm writing a non-flag question too but I'm having to learn Blender first.

Rather than spend 3 weeks building a renderer from scratch, I can simply spend 3 weeks learning Blender.

I thought a few cubes would be simple but it seems not

PhiNotPi

Maybe we should write The One Flag Question to Rule Them All.

trichoplax

Maybe we should write a really bad flag question that gets them all banned

Alex A.

It'll be the next code trolling

@PhiNotPi As input, take the name of a country, print the corresponding flag to STDOUT/closest alternative. Must work for all existing countries.

trichoplax

Take a second input: a date, and print the appropriate flag at that point in history

BrainSteel

2:38 AM

Bonus: Must work for all non-existing countries.

Alex A.

Haha

trichoplax

-50 if it works for future dates

PhiNotPi

Another piece of flag trivia: did you know that the star-spangled banner (the one that was the inspiration for the poem) actually had 15 stripes?

BrainSteel

Code-golf: Write a program that randomly outputs flag trivia into chat every hour

Alex A.

Can I just write a PhiNotPi API for that?

BrainSteel

2:40 AM

I would support this bot.

trichoplax

code-galf

BrainSteel

I would also support a patriotism tag.

Alex A.

@trichoplax hahahaha

trichoplax

lol I didn't think anyone would get that...

BrainSteel

It definitely went over my head.

trichoplax

2:41 AM

It's a flag but the wind has changed

Alex A.

@BrainSteel Ginger dwarf from Lord of the Flies

trichoplax

@AlexA. Um, maybe you didn't get it the way I meant it...

BrainSteel

Awkwardness ensues

trichoplax

I hope I haven't accidentally said something I wouldn't want to

OK, before I get mixed up in some cannibalism reference, I just meant it to be flag backwards...

Alex A.

@trichoplax "Ginger dwarf" = "Gandalf", "Flies" = "Rings"

I thought you were making a LotR reference

PhiNotPi

2:43 AM

Flag trivia: the national flag of Togo is the only country to have a flag aspect ratio of phi (1+sqrt(5))/2?

trichoplax

I can actually get it now

But strangely I couldn't get it from the wrong description and the wrong book title :P

Alex A.

Hahaha

That tends to cause problems

Welcome to my brain

It's a mess in there

BrainSteel

I'd spend some time in your brain.

Alex A.

Oh my

BrainSteel

Maybe I could sell you some of my world-class metals for your noggin.

trichoplax

2:45 AM

How much rep do you need for chat?

I'm always wary of seeming cruel inviting people who don't have enough rep

Alex A.

n, where n is the rep required for chat

Less than 2,103.

10-20

-10?

I don't see the logic of keeping people out of chat while we are trying to teach them how to use the site...

Alex A.

2:46 AM

Let me rephrase. 10 or 20

trichoplax

lol

Alex A.

@trichoplax Other sites don't have to redirect people to chat to teach them how to use the site. Other sites are much more obvious.

trichoplax

Hmm. Shame we can't make an exception for our chat

I know room owners can override it but that doesn't help for inbetween times

Alex A.

Yeah. Well, we could bug Chris the dev...

BrainSteel

Ah, the perfect solution. You think he would make a good dad for a few weeks?

trichoplax

2:49 AM

Talking of teaching people how to use the site, that question from someone who doesn't yet understand what golf means now has an answer from someone who doesn't yet understand what golf means

Any chance of more close votes until it's edited?

Alex A.

I was the first close vote.

trichoplax

I'm feeling the lack of mods already

Alex A.

Yeah... sigh

BrainSteel

Alright, alright, I see where this is going. I'll take the bullet. I now crown myself moderator.

Alex A.

We miss you, dads.

BrainSteel

2:51 AM

Guys, it didn't work.

Alex A.

We need one more

5 to close

Unless that's not what you're talking about

trichoplax

Anyone want to go on an expedition to another chat room to find a mod (or just anyone for one last vote)?

Alex A.

Haha

@Calvin'sHobbies @PhiNotPi Are you guys still paying attention to chat?

Calvin's Hobbies

No

trichoplax

Have you used your close vote yet?

Alex A.

2:52 AM

@Calvin'sHobbies Can you do us a favor and cast a close vote?

trichoplax

We'll leave you to guess which question

Alex A.

Haha

Any close vote will do. Doesn't matter which question.

Nvm

Dennis to the rescue

Unfortunately there are some aspects of the Stack Exchange system that are fantastic for 99% of the SE sites but make things here kind of weird.

Example: New users have a rep barrier for places where they can get guidance on challenges.

trichoplax

The sandbox is one I often recommend and then feel bad about

Alex A.

Yeah. It just doesn't make sense on main though (IMO).

trichoplax

It looks like the community agrees with you pretty strongly

Alex A.

3:00 AM

About what?

trichoplax

Keeping the sandbox on meta

Alex A.

Oh, yeah. Very strongly. Haha

It would get buried in the noise if it was on main. It's more visible as a featured on meta post.

trichoplax

Yeah - I voted for main but it would be an awkward workaround - something like pointing to it from a meta post that could be featured. It's hard enough to get people to use the sandbox as it is so I'm pretty happy being voted against in this case

PhiNotPi

@AlexA. I'm back

Alex A.

I've actually thought about building my own PPCG-like site entirely from scratch featuring a wiki section for tips and tutorials on golfing, languages, and challenge writing, as well as a setting for challenges with more features.

@PhiNotPi Hi. I like beans.

trichoplax

3:06 AM

It would be interesting to have a place to redirect sandbox posts that aren't quite in scope but we still want to see

Alex A.

@trichoplax What do you mean?

Sp3000

We could always have mini competitions in chat :P

trichoplax

I think there are types of problem that would interest this community but wouldn't work on this site

Alex A.

@trichoplax Example?

trichoplax

@Sp3000 This has been hinted at in the past - maybe it will happen

@AlexA. lol OK I see what you're asking now

Alex A.

3:07 AM

haha

trichoplax

When I say "there are lots" it usually means "I'm sure I could think of an example if I really wracked my brains"

Sp3000

@trichoplax I tried that in the past, but I was a terrible question picker :P

Alex A.

CHAT CHALLENGE: Write a program or function that scans the entire 19th Byte chat transcript and prints all messages ever posted by @Geobits.

trichoplax

There have been times in the past when I've thought "that would make a good challenge elsewhere" but off course now I can't remember them

@AlexA. No! The starboard would go crazy

Sp3000

@AlexA. Do we get access to the stackexchange API?

Alex A.

3:09 AM

@Sp3000 Sure!

trichoplax

Challenges that are ongoing live online contests would be hard to fit into the SE format

But I think lots of us would be interested

Calvin's Hobbies

Chat challenge: Which 5k+ user has the most unique colors in their avatar.

feersum

any challenge where you shouldn't see the other solutions

trichoplax

@feersum Perfect example

Alex A.

@feersum Like on Puzzling

That's what spoiler tags are for though

feersum

3:11 AM

I mean, where it should be impossible even if you wanted to

trichoplax

But sometimes it might be nice to have a competition where there isn't even a spoiler tag, so no one can match your exact strategy

yes

@Calvin'sHobbies I have 2 colours. Any advance on 2?

Sp3000

@Calvin'sHobbies Probably primo, since they use their answer from Images with all colors

I can't tell whether the image compression introduced a few duplicates though

Alex A.

Well if I ever learn a lot of things that I don't currently know, I'll actually make the PPCG competitor site I mentioned. Probably won't happen. I don't know much of anything.

trichoplax

The image compression drastically increases the number of colours in mine

It might happen as a group effort

There are whispers on meta about a KotH server

Alex A.

I don't understand the point of the KotH server

trichoplax

3:14 AM

I think it would be most useful for games where you don't have to divulge your code, as feersum mentioned. That would probably make it off topic here though

Alex A.

Yeah

trichoplax

That doesn't stop someone hosting it and coordinating through chat though

Alex A.

But isn't that what already happens? Calvin ran his Red vs. Blue and told people about it in chat.

trichoplax

I've found out how to subtract shapes in Blender using Python - maybe my question will happen after all

Alex A.

:D

trichoplax

3:17 AM

@AlexA. But that was still hosted on main with all the code visible...

Alex A.

Oh right, the visible thing

trichoplax

The idea of the KotH server is that rather than one person having all the code and running it all themselves, they just leave the controller running with an internet connection and other people connect to compete

MMO for bots

Well, maybe not MMO, maybe just MO

Alex A.

The closest I could see to that happening would be for people to just push their code to a git repo with the caveat "don't look at the other people's code"

trichoplax

If it's on trust it may as well be on main - more straightforward

Another limit is the 30,000 character post limit

Alex A.

Yeah, true

trichoplax

3:20 AM

But I don't see many people wanting to post answers that exceed that...

They might if it was a long term competition over a year or more

It might work as a team competition - perhaps 5 or 6 people working on a bot

Alex A.

My attention span couldn't handle a challenge specification > 30k characters

Same for reading anyone's answers

trichoplax

The challenge could be quite short, but if it's a good open ended challenge the answers could keep growing, especially with a team per bot

If the code isn't public it would be more about watching the play in progress rather than reading answers. A bit different from how things work here

I like how things work here though

Alex A.

Yeah

An issue with it here is that "good, open-ended challenge" is contradictory

Open-ended => too broad => close

trichoplax

Oh I didn't mean underspecified - I meant that there isn't an easy optimal strategy to find, so more answers can keep coming in and winning in new ways

Alex A.

Oh I see. Then why wouldn't that work here?

Because there isn't a single set way to win?

trichoplax

3:26 AM

My prime nerd sniping question had an optimal solution, and jimmy found it immediately so now no one else can answer. I learnt from this and my uniquely separated pixels question has no chance of an optimal solution, so new answers keep coming in with different approaches that will only ever be approximations

No that does work here

An open ended challenge with no optimal strategy is good for here or elsewhere

Alex A.

I see now. Alright

Sp3000

Speaking of unique pixels, I chucked a 137 at my GA all night but it couldn't break free to give a 138 :(

trichoplax

3:43 AM

:(

You're already likely heading for that bounty...

Unless someone's waiting to swoop near the end

Alex A.

It sounds to me like @Sp3000 isn't working on my chat challenge. ;)

Sp3000

:/ I'm not sure about 200+, but I'm at least hoping to squeeze a few more in... that much seems doable at least...

And yeah I'm not :P I just like to comment for clarifications on challenges

(also I've never used the API before)

Alex A.

Haha

I'm going to go not look at a screen for a while then maybe close my eyes for an extended period of time.

Nice chatting with you all.

Looking forward to seeing your challenge, @trichoplax.

trichoplax

@Sp3000 The API? Are you talking about the chat challenge now?

@AlexA. Hopefully it won't be too long...

Ignore me I read the chat posts in the wrong order...

Calvin's Hobbies

4:22 AM

@trichoplax AFAIK you can't use the api to query chat messages,

New Main Posts

0

Q: Brainfuck to Unary and Back

A language that is very useful in restricted source and other such challenges is Unary, a brainfuck derivative in which programs are written in with only one character. Your job is to write a program to convert programs from brainfuck to unary and a program to do the opposite, both programs in th...

code-golf brainfuck base-conversion compiler

Sp3000

Oh you can't? Damn :(

Calvin's Hobbies

4:41 AM

This was talking about this btw, if anyone sees the starred post and is confused.

New Main Posts

1

Q: Which Friends characters were really the best friends?

The six main cast members of the American sitcom Friends all agreed that they would be paid the same salary throughout the run of the series (after season 2, at least). But that doesn't mean that they all had the same amount of air time or that they all interacted on screen with each other the sa...

code-golf arithmetic combinatorics

Sp3000

Nice question :)

Calvin's Hobbies

4:58 AM

@AlexA. Mind if i build something pretty close behind your house?

(in minecraft)

Dennis

5:19 AM

@Sp3000 Looks like I'm going to lose.

Sp3000

Hmm I dunno, hard to say. I'd have posted the equivalent of this in Python but I feel like I've stolen too many Python questions lately :P

(btw is there a way to unwrap a string and push its chars to the stack?)

Dennis

Dump for strings? Not really. The best you can do is 0+~;. You can omit ; if you push something you'll need immediately.

You can shorten your initial array by 1 char. I have the same array in my answer.

Sp3000

... ah. That's neat :) Is it okay if I use that though?

Dennis

Sure, go ahead.

You're winning anyway. :P

Sp3000

Heh :P I'm sure we can mutually work to smash any incoming Pyth (okay, maybe not)

Dennis

5:29 AM

Hopefully. CJam still seems to be able to beat Pyth in ASCII art.

Sp3000

Hmm fancy vectorising you have there - if the arrays are non-equal lengths the longer array's elements are just kept as is?

Dennis

Yes, that's right.

Sp3000

Hmm interesting...

Sp3000

5:48 AM

Staring at your code for a few minutes and I can't think of anything good :( it's an interesting approach though

Sp3000

5:59 AM

@Dennis Weirdly, ["X-++""X ||"__"X-+|"\] is the same length as 'X"-++ || ||-+| ||"3/f+

Dennis

Frickin' chat sound. I spilled my drink! :P

Sp3000

Ah oops, sorry :P

Dennis

I've tried to compress that string, but without luck, so far.

Sp3000

I was just surprised that the direct approach was just as long

@Dennis 87Zb"X ||X-++X-+|"4/f=

Dennis

@Sp3000 Oh, that's clever. Thanks!

" -"34f*"||+"_@.+\.+4*'|[5 8 9B]'Xf*f+_W%+..e>3m>2>N* might be golfable somehow, but 54 bytes don't look promising.

Sp3000

6:18 AM

@xnor Funnily enough that's how I discovered it - I thought I was using indices in my code and had n%3, and it took me until a few hours later before I realised why it actually worked :P

Hmm probably golfable, but I'm not seeing anything atm

xnor

Python 3 should save 6 bytes unless it hits escape characters

Sp3000

Hmm is Python okay with control chars in strings like that? I know some work, but are there any it chokes on? (I'm having trouble copying NUL in)

Actually NUL's giving me a SyntaxError in IDLE

xnor

the shell crashes for me

feersum

Yes, you always have to escape \0

I believe it was treated as EOF in my implementation

xnor

is there a list of ones that must be escaped?

feersum

6:32 AM

\0, \r, \n is all

backslash and quotes of course

backslash doesn't need to be escaped if the following character doesn't form an escape sequence

Sp3000

7:36 AM

@Optimizer Thanks, I need to brush up on CJam golf :P

Optimizer

@Sp3000 for other two also you can do something similar. I updated my comment

Sp3000

Can you though? Wouldn't you need 3%?

Optimizer

so in the last one, I can be greater than 3 too ?

Sp3000

Specifically one of [0 5 8 9 11]

Optimizer

same for "- "

?

Sp3000

7:47 AM

Yeah

It's the same condition, repeated if that helps

Optimizer

9:40 AM

"Draw a devious Doorknob" overhanded

Sp3000

Closed as "unclear what you're asking", "art contest", "too broad"

Optimizer

overhanded cannot be closed as "unclear"

Optimizer

11:37 AM

WAT : cjam.aditsu.net/#code=5m!m!KA%23%23

@aditsu ^

Sparr

1:29 PM

For anyone who missed the notice a couple of weeks ago, we revived chat.stackexchange.com/rooms/16230/marbelous-esolang-design and are at least discussing continued development of Marbelous. Hopefully that will turn into new features for one or both of the interpreters soon.

aditsu

@Optimizer BigInteger would overflow supported range

@Optimizer "devious" is redundant

Optimizer

@aditsu see the tag

if underhanded means being as less obvious and as sneaky as possible, then obviously, overhanded is the opposite.

aditsu

still redundant

interestingly, google lists "underhanded" as a synonym for "devious"

Optimizer

@aditsu redundancy is one of the judging criteria of overhanded (overhanded) questions

Optimizer