The Nineteenth Byte

2:39 AM

Going to bed soon, but for those interested, here's an early preview of the flocking KotH I was talking about: youtube.com/watch?v=P6eR4CXBUuI

2

The predators are pretty idiotic, and I need to fix the wall behavior, but it's pretty so far ^^

ProgrammerDan

Hehe, those predators are pretty silly -- that one cluster just sits in the corner the whole time

hypnotic to watch the "prey", though

Rusher

Wow that looks nice. Seems like driving them into a corner was the way to go

Geobits

Yea, that's not their fault, though. The "I'm close to a wall" behavior is literally just "bounce the hell off", so they get stuck in corners until the prey comes back.

Rusher

Reminds me of Geometry Wars

Geobits

Limited visibility, so unless there's prey nearby, they don't really know what to do.

TIL: My screen recorder captures audio from Spotify.

Rusher

2:43 AM

If you add cool retro sounds effects to your project, I bet you'll get famous question EZ

ProgrammerDan

True that.

Geobits

Well, it should be a good fight. Even with just 10 dumb predators, they can eat around 225 in 1000 iterations.After that it slows considerably, but they get off to a good start.

Rusher

Do you have time to herd them into a corner before dying?

Geobits

I haven't decided on how long it should take until hunger sets in, but I'm going to make sure it's fair.

I'm thinking each submission gets a pack of 5, with each one's visibility "telepathically" linked, to ease herding/strategy.

Rusher

If you lower the hunger timer and make the predators starve faster, then you can avoid strategies like "make a formation -> drive into wall -> eat"

Should be like basketball. Flexible formations, but when you see your chance, you take it.

Geobits

2:49 AM

Nah, I want strategies like that. It sounds great at first, but that's thinking like you're the only ones on the field. With other packs that could swoop in on your herd, it makes things tricky.

Rusher

Oh I didn't notice that it was a free for all.

That makes things interesting

Geobits

Yep, all the predators on the same field. Last team with a unit alive wins.

No way to attack others, though. Just eating prey.

ProgrammerDan

I like the idea of hyenas vs. lions

any way to have a predator know that other, non-self predators are nearby?

Geobits

Each predator will have access to its pack-mates' visibilities and location, so yea. Any predator you see that doesn't match a known position is non-pack.

mniip

Does anyone know what language this is?

ProgrammerDan

2:53 AM

@Geobits cool, that's great. Should make for great strategies

Geobits

@mniip
> I gave the answer in Verilog because...

mniip

Oh. I must be blind

Rusher

I know this is completely off the wall, but it'd be cool if the predators could build walls and use a one time special ability like grappling a sheep to them while simulataneously printing, in little red text, "Your mine!" in order to avoid starving. And it'd be cool if prey that was completely surrounded by walls could reproduce too. I'd totally upvote that shit.

ProgrammerDan

Looks interesting -- verilog.com

Geobits

@Rusher lol, maybe next time? Though, that seems to lead more toward a town-building type of game

Which would be pretty awesome, honestly

Anyway, I'm out. Night!

Rusher

2:57 AM

Age of Sheep and Wolves. The new mmo by Geobits. You can't play. You can only help develop the AI.

Night!

ProgrammerDan

G'night

Rusher

FML my last few nights have been completely dedicated to attempting to run this freaking challenge. It's almost bed time already

ProgrammerDan

I believe it Rusher

Rusher

I don't understand how three or four submissions are doing worse than the bears. And the stones are like not even in the bottom 25%

ProgrammerDan

haha

the submissions must be especially vulnerable to other wolves/lions/or bears

stones are basically like the lazy submissions

and it seems a lot of submissions ignore them

Rusher

3:01 AM

But I feel like any code added should be an improvement to the stone lol.

ProgrammerDan

:D

Rusher

Do you have minecraft?

ProgrammerDan

Somewhat related, just got "good answer" for my community wiki wrapper post :D

Yep

Rusher

Oh nice. You still get badges?

ProgrammerDan

Yeah, I only got involved in SE maybe a month ago

until then I just quietly consumed SO

figured it was about time I started giving back

Rusher

3:02 AM

Oh I meant you still get badges (for wiki posts)

ProgrammerDan

then I found code-golf, and have been ignoring SO since :P

hahaha, my bad. Yes, you do.

Just no rep

Rusher

That was exactly me. I have 1500 rep on SO. But I constantly hang around Board Games too. The people in the MTG section there are completely idiotic.

I quit SO when I found golf

ProgrammerDan

I finally found my way over to Board Games the other day. I don't play a lot of board games due to lack of people to play with, but I've got a gaming group that meets about once every month or two and plays all day.

We've done mostly TI3, which is a great game, although exhausting

(Twilight Imperium 3)

Rusher

Looks strangely like catan

ProgrammerDan

for 6 players, we average around 9 hours of game time, 12 hours total time w/ breaks, beer, etc. Good times :D

It's very different, although yes, the board is hexagonal

Rusher

3:13 AM

Someone used reflection to modify the final static Attack enum so that every Attack is actually Suicide. Curiously, it doesn't work at all, and he consistently scores zero.

I didn't even know you COULD modify final static variables. That's scary....

ProgrammerDan

I'm pretty sure you can't, and his code should throw a final access modification violation exception of some sort

... but honestly, I have never tried.

Rusher

He used reflection, found the field, made it public, stripped the final modifier, and then changed it. NetBeans didn't complain at all. It looks like the enum was compiled into a constant though, and so modifying the field after the fact didn't work. It honestly looks like voodoo magic though, so it's not surprising that it doesn't work.

ProgrammerDan

Wow.

Do you have the link handy?

Rusher

codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/25542/18487 t

I hate posting those giant blocks in the chat so I always break them on purpose

ProgrammerDan

Heh, interesting approach! Almost a shame it didn't work :D

Rusher

3:25 AM

Very true. I even put his class first so it would be loaded first. His class is the ONLY class where every attack is suicide.

ProgrammerDan

ok. Off to bed for me.

g'night!

Rusher

Night

DoorknobChatbot

5:04 AM

New meta post! How much to put in the ASCII 2D input for puzzles vs provide as coordinates in input?

Gareth

6:58 AM

@Rusher Both times I've done a KOTH I've spent a large amount of time installing new languages.

DoorknobChatbot

7:27 AM

New post! aHHHH! The Beasts are HHHere!

luser droog

Yay! I fixed *jot-dot*: `$ ./inca
a@..a<1+~5
5 5
1 2 3 4 5
2 4 6 8 10
3 6 9 12 15
4 8 12 16 20
5 10 15 20 25
`

luser droog

7:58 AM

The @-sign is getting pretty ridiculously overloaded now.

luser droog

8:10 AM

@ as a monadic function precedes its argument and performs the reversal of the vector; @ as a monadic operator follows one of .-|/\+<> and performs a matrix transposition along the indicated axis; @ as a dyadic function performs a roll; and now @ as the left function of . dot is jot which doesn't actually do anything at all. :P this is what haunts my dreams...

luser droog

8:36 AM

woah. i got it to do if-then-else by making an array of code fragments and selecting row 0 or 1 from it.

It looks like this: ` a<:c+c b<:c.c c<4 ;d<:;e{a;b e<1 ;d , where space indicates enter. a is the procedure "c+c", b is the procedure "c.c" (c times c), set c as 4, execute ;` d which is set to the procedure "execute (pull row e from (a;b))", set e as 1, call d again this time executing b. this is madness.

DoorknobChatbot

9:48 AM

New meta post! How about Protecting the Pop Contests?

Manu

10:23 AM

@Rusher is modifying other wolves through reflection (i.e. changing their static fields) disallowed? The rules only disallow reading/modifying files created by the wolf, not the wolf itself. Or am I wrong?

DoorknobChatbot

10:48 AM

New post! [[ Python ]All possible permuation in lexicographical Order](codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/25562/…)

Geobits

12:55 PM

Hmm. Even if the reflection-wolf could modify the enum, it would just make most wolf fights fall back to if(aTack == bTack) /*random dies*/ instead of just suiciding.

DoorknobChatbot

1:15 PM

New post! Tom and friends - trains

Manu

@Geobits I don't want to modifiy the enum, but static fields of other wolves... Some have fields like possibleMoves, changing them would make them loose

Geobits

1:34 PM

@Manu Oh, I was talking about codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/25542/14215

undergroundmonorail

Can someone please read this answer and make sure I wasn't an ass? I tried really hard to not be an ass and I want to make sure it didn't happen by accident.

0

A: 1 on 1 language mappings "illegal"?

Personally (obviously), I'm not a fan. In my opinion it goes against the spirit of challenging yourself to get a lower byte count if the language you're using is an existing language with the keywords shortened. In my eyes the only difference between that and using a language specifically designe...

Rusher

@Manu It's allowed. If you do it and win, I'll accept your wolf as the current winner, but I may offer another bounty that can be awarded to the Wolf I think is the best "normal" Wolf. I assume it's ok to pick and choose who I like for a bounty, right?

Regardless, Mirror chose to be represented by 'M. Wolves are represented by 'W'. Mirror is not a Wolf, and will therefore not be included.

He gets +1 for mirroring the letter though :D

undergroundmonorail

@Rusher I believe that "objective win condition" is required by questions but you can award bounties for whatever you want, including "I like this one".

Geobits

@undergroundmonorail Whether someone agrees with you or not, I don't think they can reasonably say you're being an ass about it based on that post.

undergroundmonorail

@Geobits Thanks :)

Rusher

1:44 PM

I wonder though, can you modify wolves in another package? Is that possible in Java?

Manu

1:55 PM

As long as the class is public...

However, you can only modifiy static variables through reflection, since you don't have access to the instances of all classes

ProgramFOX

@Rusher Will you also offer a bounty for the wolf that kills the most animals? ;-)

Rusher

2:13 PM

@ProgramFOX Hmmm... that would be interesting. Perhaps @Geobits' competition is more suited to that.

Geobits

Maybe, but there's likely to be a high correlation between "eats the most" and "starves last", so I'd be willing to bet that would go to the overall winner anyway.

Rusher

Wow... two minute front page on SO now.

That's kind of ridiculous.

DoorknobChatbot

New post! Createjs code game challange

Rusher

2:56 PM

Woot gold badge!

2

ProgrammerDan

Epic, way to go Rusher

DoorknobChatbot

3:34 PM

New post! Mex table generation

ProgramFOX

3:59 PM

@Rusher Are you still here? I have a question about your Wolf KotH.

Rusher

6:09 PM

@ProgramFOX Here now. Had meeting/lunch

Quincunx

6:59 PM

@Rusher I wanted to participate in the Wolf KotH, but I needed to upgrade to Java 8. I downloaded Java 8 SDK, but now I'm wondering if uninstalling Java 7 will cause previous programs to fail.

I also wonder how to download the new Netbeans and move my old projects into it.

Do you know how to do this?

Rusher

7:47 PM

@Quincunx Anything that compiled in JDK 7 should still compile in JDK 8 (but not the other way around). You need to keep all of your JDKs if you plan to make changes to an older project. Anything that ran in JRE 7 should still run in JRE 8 (but again, not the other way around). You don't need to keep your old JREs. Get Netbeans 8 here: oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/downloads/… Go to File -> Open Project and find your old projects.

Quincunx

@Rusher Thanks. Do you mean that I can't edit Java 7 code with Java 8? That sounds strange.

@Rusher I'm looking at my list of installed programs and wondering which Java's I can uninstall. I guess that the Java updates are the JREs...

So I'd uninstall the 1st two.

Rusher

@quincunx You can, but if you compile Java 7 code with JDK 8, everyone that used to be able to run your program will no longer be able to run in unless they install JRE 8

Besides that, the JDK takes up so little space on disk that you may as well keep it

Quincunx

Oh, so that's what it does. Thanks

Rusher

The Java's that you showed a picture of can all be removed except for the latest one

Quincunx

OK, I won't uninstall the JDK.

Rusher

8:01 PM

Those are JREs and the latest JRE will run old programs. Just keep Java 8 (64-bit)

Quincunx

Done.

Thx. Time to build my counter Lion-swapper wolf.

Peter Taylor

8:47 PM

@Rusher It probably can be made to work by getting into even more voodoo magic, but I don't want to give him ideas.

@Rusher javac has a -target switch to produce class files which are compatible with older versions. They've even improved the documentation over what I remember.

DoorknobChatbot

New post! Count the unique fractions with only integers

Doorknob

well that was easy

0

A: Count the unique fractions with only integers

Ruby, 56 p (a=[*1..100]).product(a).map{|x|Rational *x}.uniq.size Output: 6087 Uses product for the numerator and denominator getting process, and then uses Rational for converting them to fractions. If you remove the .size at the end, it prints all of the fractions instead of how many ther...

Rusher

@PeterTaylor It's a property of the project in NetBeans now. Right click -> Properties -> Source/Binary Format has a dropdown with all the JDKs available (that NetBeans knows about)

@Doorknob Wow 3 minutes. duplicate?

Doorknob

9:02 PM

@Rusher Nope, just easy challenge :P

Rusher

You deserve a badge for that. Can sites have unique badges?

Something like "Answered in less than 5 minutes and scored 10 or higher without making any subsequent edits."

I'll call it the "Taken by Storm" badge.

Doorknob

Whoops, I edited :P

I would oppose something like that because it would prevent me improving my post for a long time :P

Rusher

Why would it prevent you from improving?

Doorknob

Because I can't edit if I want the badge.

Rusher

I guess badges shouldn't encourage poor behavior. You're right.

Whyyyyyyy does the auto formatter for HTML in visual studio produce constructs like
<p>
------Hello</p>
but without the dashes

Also, is there a multiple space character that works in the chat? As of my typing, these bars have a huge space between them | |

Doorknob

9:10 PM

You mean like | |?

You mean like `|          |`?

Rusher

       You are a wizard!

Unicode character lookup has no idea what I typed

What magic is this?

Geobits

This is ridiculous.

Rusher

Wow this is neat. But I can't draw a space :( shapecatcher.com

I can't figure out how to draw white space

Doorknob

Do nothing and click submit? :P

> Draw a bit more, please

Lol

Geobits

I think "drawing whitespace" kinda goes against the purpose of whitespace, no?

Rusher

9:20 PM

@Geobits All bets are off after slinging paint on a canvas became a thing 4.bp.blogspot.com/-nS05JigZpk4/T34us4J8_UI/AAAAAAAACeg/…. White space is the future of art.

Doorknob

Oh by the way @Rusher:

@Rusher So, you're not including CamoWolf? -_- It's not against the rules, and you can't just say "I don't like this one so I'm not including it"... — Doorknob 9 hours ago

?

Rusher

9:39 PM

@Doorknob I'll respond when you retract your rude implication that I am only including submissions that I like.

Doorknob

@Rusher Well, that appears to be true, since you are only including 14 of the 31 wolves....

Rusher

How many of the 31 Wolves were submitted before April 7, compiled before April 7, and didn't break any rules before April 7?

Doorknob

Ah, I see. In any case, you haven't provided any reasoning for excluding Camo other than "I don't like it." Bending the rules is part of the fun of PPCG!

Rusher

When did I say that I excluded it because I don't like it?

Doorknob

Well, you never gave any other reason.

Rusher

9:46 PM

Wolves are represented by 'W'. CamoWolf is represented by 'S'. 'S' is not 'W'. Therefore, CamoWolf is not a Wolf. Wolves submitted as an answer will be included. CamoWolf is not a Wolf. Therefore, it is not the case that CamoWolf will be included.

The bolded words are taken straight from the spec. The rest is just something that is true.

Doorknob

Actually, the spec said Only wolves that are submitted as an answer will be included. It never said "All answers must be represented by 'W'" or anything.

Rusher

Look under "The Players" section.
Wolf
Only wolves that are submitted as an answer will be included. Represented by 'W'. Moves with any Move. Attacks with any Attack

See that part that says "Represented by 'W' that I also bolded for you 30 seconds ago?

Doorknob

Yep, and?

Rusher

That means that wolves are represented by 'W'.

Doorknob

Okay, so I submitted a "CamoWolf" instead of a "Wolf." Where did it say I can't do that?

Okay, I have to go to a tennis thing. I shall continue discussion soon

Rusher

9:51 PM

It doesn't prohibit you from submitting a CamoWolf. But the spec says that only wolves will be included, and your submission is not a wolf (as proven a second ago)

4

Geobits

10:07 PM

Huh. So my son just told me that he thinks we're all actually dead, and dreaming everything. And that when we think we're dreaming, it's just a "dream in a dream". WTF. He's seven

undergroundmonorail

When I was five or so I was briefly convinced that I was actually an old man with really vivid memories of being five or so.

Geobits

Well..... were you?

undergroundmonorail

I don't think so.

Geobits

Good. Maybe my kid's wrong, too.

undergroundmonorail

I hope so!

Rusher

10:11 PM

@Geobits The funniest thing about that is that you can't prove him wrong :P

When I was little, I thought the world was in a big box (because of Men in Black)

Geobits

Yea, I told him I thought he was probably wrong, and asked him how we should figure it out. He's still thinking about that one.

Rusher

Hah. Good dad. I wish I had a kid. People that have kids seem so much more reasonable, which means that I am probably UNreasonable by their count.

Geobits

Reasonable? Maybe, but only because it's easier that way. Anyway, time to go swimming! ^^

luser droog

10:39 PM

Hello in inca: :Hello, World!.

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