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2:37 AM
Grr, I'm being rate-limited by SE (in posting the two cops-and-robbers threads). Not even a diamond is enough to convince the site that I'm not a spammer :P
 
Edit distance CnR! :D
 
3:01 AM
Wow, 9 upvotes out of 11 views (one of which was me). :P
 
3:36 AM
@Doorknob冰 With 128 chars, is Java even possible?
 
@Sp3000 Yeah, I was thinking about that. It was originally 80 chars, but I thought that would just be too unfair considering that the public static void et.al. boilerplate is already 45 chars...
 
I'm doing one in Python right now and I can only barely make the limit... (I can golf out a few chars if I used Python 2 though)
 
Hmm, I might increase it if even Python is cutting it close. But with too high of a limit, cracking the submissions might be too hard.
 
Well maybe my approach is just lengthy :P
(I think this is how I normally find primes though)
 
4:08 AM
Well I got it down to 117
Oh, MemoryError :/
 
I had a neat idea!
I hope it's not a duplicate..
http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/42916/print-the-twelve-days-of-christmas-with-twelve-different-coding-languages
 
There's been a few 12 Days of Christmas challenges, but I'm not sure about the languages part
 
Oh, that's positive c: What do you think?
 
A little late, but interesting nonetheless ;) I've retagged it to [rosetta-stone] for you, since we've got a tag for this type of challenge.
 
There have quine chain challenges too though, lemme see where they went...
 
4:14 AM
Rosetta Stone?
Oh, I see
 
You know what might be even twistier than my puzzle? My internet connection
 
But I don't know if anything's been done on the each-program-prints-a-part-of-a-full-text front
 
So, I'm on a router that happens to block all traffic...except between 8 and 10. Unfortunately, it blocks my laptop at all times during the day. It's a Linksys Smart Wifi router.
I decided to poke around and found that I could load images, for one...but anything with a text content-type gets redirected to the Blocked page
but it doesn't do that to ones with
Host: (anything).linksyssmartwifi.com
or
Host: (anything).linksys.com, those work just fine
...so I used my Windows hosts file to point tun.linksyssmartwifi.com to a VPS I got for this, and it goes right through the TCP tunnel to an instance of tinyproxy running on the other end. I'm using it right now. It's a bit slow but it's sped up a lot, ever since I moved it from the VPS to a dedicated server of mine.
Fun fun fun.
@Sp3000 Yay, maybe I had an original thought :P
goes to bed
 
 
1 hour later…
5:35 AM
Hmm I'm starting to get the feeling that anything >= 12 or so for Python is really easy for the CnR
 
grc
would it work to disallow commenting?
 
Not that, it's just really easy to squeeze a,b=a+b,a in
 
grc
yeah :/
I'm trying to work on one, but it's hard getting the distance down
 
Yeah :/ I'm onto the Wolfram pages looking for theorems now XD
 
5:56 AM
I have an idea but it's 6 chars over D:
 
grc
6:07 AM
distance of 17 now...
 
D:
I can get mine down to the limit but the distance goes from 8 -> 10
 
grc
6:42 AM
I've given up on Python
J is so much easier :D
 
Ahaha now I need to learn J...
 
7:23 AM
Reading up about J: "The __ (two underbars) is negative infinity and is a number."
Interesting...
 
 
1 hour later…
8:44 AM
@Optimizer Isaac understood the ungolfed version well enough to write a port.
 
8:59 AM
@PeterTaylor and due to his explanation I understood it too
I am not even sure if he ported yours. As usually, he gives credit
 
 
1 hour later…
10:26 AM
@Doorknob冰 are you competing with JS with your new language ? ;)
 
 
1 hour later…
11:30 AM
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

KnerdPhoneword generator This is codegolf and restricted-source Goal The goal is to write the shortest phoneword generator. Phoneword A phoneword, is a word, that is typed with letters in your phone which map to the numbers they display. As example I use codegolf itself: 26334653 translates to C...

 
11:41 AM
@isaacg any luck on the 404 issue for your online compiler ?
 
11:59 AM
@Doorknob冰 I don't understand your mutation challenge. Can't I just replace each cop by a 120 byte Fibonacci program in the same language (and also get the highest possible score by doing so)?
 
I think the point is to make the edit distance between the two programs as small as possible
But still have it go uncracked
(But yeah now what to do with needle/haystack... :( )
Oh right you mean for the robbers - they have to do it with the specified edit distance exactly?
(Although I think I liked the previous #of submissions cracked scoring more)
 
12:17 PM
@Optimizer No progress so far. It probably won't be back for a few weeks.
 
12:28 PM
@isaacg what is the issue, I really relied on that one for my Pyth practice :)
@MartinBüttner that QR seems to be wrong, as in what the question asks to print
QR for 2015 is different
 
@Optimizer Different sites seem to be giving different outputs for me
 
12:46 PM
Hi, I'm the author of the challenge Construct a graph. I'm considering extending it into a series of challenges, with the theme of constructing some object from a simple "blueprint". Is there an established format for challenge series on this site?
 
format - no
 
@Optimizer well I'm printing what the question asks
@Optimizer Mathematica's built-in QR generator gives yet another representation.
I don't know anything about QR, but I guess it's not unique?
 
who knows
 
1:06 PM
@Sp3000 oh okay, overlooked that
 
@MartinBüttner 60 should not have .
 
sure it should
or
because leading 0?
 
yes
see his examples
 
fixed, but there's probably a simpler way
 
@MartinBüttner No, because the edit distance has to be equal to the cop's specified distance.
 
1:11 PM
@Doorknob冰 yeah, overlooked that, thanks
 
@MartinBüttner 68 should have a .
 
@MartinBüttner I tried snowflakes where the particles can drift in all 4 directions and it does give much sparser results - it seems to make a big difference. I think they are now too sparse so I'm experimenting with changing the probability of a particle sticking to the tree so some of them can drift deeper and fill the gaps.
 
1:32 PM
@githubphagocyte interesting. could you share some results? ;)
 
@MartinBüttner I was hoping you'd ask... ;)
Here are some early very sparse ones:
 
10 questions in last 24 hours (only two of which are closed)
@githubphagocyte that is actually pretty amazing
 
how many particles is that?
 
It's specified in terms of a density rather than a number of particles, but I think these are a few hundred
They are sparse because as soon as a particles touches the tree it sticks, so it's unlikely many particles will get past once a branch has started to grow. I tried with only a 1 in 10 chance of sticking each time a particle moves onto the tree to make them denser:
 
1:38 PM
@Optimizer Ha ha, very funny, but after looking at my code for the rotation-safe challenge (:n``+.{~.6=9*\.9=6{*3@+\}:f~.0=0f.8=8f;}/](\{+}*.,3@.,3@=3~@=!&.*n\+‌​) that doesn't even work, I'm starting to think so... Really, the problem is that lots of functions just aren't implemented (like array index — how could I forget that one?!).
 
@MartinBüttner Thanks :)
I then read about real snowflakes and discovered that the pattern is due to the conditions in the cloud changing as they grow - so they have periods of fast and slow growth leading to different shapes.
So I made the probability of a particle sticking vary gradually during the growth. They all have the same probability at any one time, but that probability drifts. I was hoping for layers of sparse and dense growth building up.
 
@githubphagocyte well you know what to try next then ;)
 
@PeterTaylor say, how would represent an empty 2x2 matrix, such that you don't need to handle it specially with regard to adding or filtering rows/columns? (I've got this problem in CJam, so I thought you might have a GS-specific idea, but now I'm sort of wondering how one would do this elegantly in any language)
 
1:43 PM
@githubphagocyte are you starting from a random position?
 
@MartinBüttner All the particles are released from a single point at the edge of the image on the x axis, and a new particle is added at that point every time it is unoccupied. If the tree reaches that point no more particles are released, but any existing floating particles continue to drift around until they join the tree.
 
@MartinBüttner What do you mean by an empty 2x2 matrix?
 
well the generalisation of a square matrix with 0 columns and rows. like the adjacency matrix of an empty graph.
oh, I see your confusion now
I just meant matrix
the 2s came from wanting to write 2-dimensional array at first
 
2:06 PM
It's very context-dependent, but I think that probably a single empty array (i.e. an array containing 0 rows).
 
2:28 PM
3.5 questions per day!
I am thinking of thinking 1 today too
 
3:16 PM
@PeterTaylor yeah, that's what I've currently got, but unfortunately I need to treat that case specially.
because all the array manipulation I do (including expanding it), is done by mapping onto rows.
@Optimizer do you have an unposted version of the rotation-safe numbers that's shorter than 46? can't believe that you didn't beat my code that I didn't try to golf yet :D
 
if you golf it. i might have
;)
and do remember that I came back home just now only :P
 
3:42 PM
@es1024 I did some playing around with graphical output in marbelous, I've come up with the following:
FFFFFFFF00
????????
MkAreaRd><
:MkAreaRd
@3..@2..@0}0}1@1..@4@5@6
}3..}2@4/\&0&0/\@5RowRed
&0&0/\@6..@0@1
Inci!!
@3@2
:RowRed
@1..@0..@2}2
}1..}0..\\&0
&0&0/\PxRd/\@2
Inci!!
@1@0
:PxRd
}0}1FF0000
{}{}{}{}{}
:Inci
}1}0}1}0FF
Eqal++
=0&1&0&0&1
&0\/{1{0{>
\/
@MartinBüttner, ^ might interest you too.
 
I just tried it. what's supposed to happen?
 
@MartinBüttner Check the Use draw boxes checkbox
And maybe set max tick count up by a factor of 10
 
I did both
I get two red rectangles on black
 
Basically, I made a function that colors a parameterisable area red
I should have made the color parameterisable straight away though...
 
@githubphagocyte @Sp3000 I've updated the proposal for the battleblock theater puzzle a bit: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/3606/8478
 
3:53 PM
parameterisable, that can't be the correct way to write that word...
 
@MartinBüttner How often each block is toggled seems like a good output choice :)
Maybe add a note that no touching = 000? To be on the safe side
(It's implied, but I hope people don't confuse it with empty string)
 
@Sp3000 I'll make sure to include an example of that. Would you mind adapting your reference solution to the new output format, so I can use it to generate test cases? :D
 
Ahaha k :P
It's actually easier this way because that's how I represent each solve :P
 
sorry, you do way too much work for my challenges :D
 
@MartinBüttner How quickly does an optimal solution become unrealistic to achieve? You could either insist on an optimal solution or score based on a test set that includes large enough cases to mean optimal solutions are unlikely, and the score is the sum of the toggles
 
3:58 PM
@githubphagocyte Hm, I'd rather keep it a code golf than making it a code challenge.
I'm rather considering to somehow eliminate brute force, by including something like a 20-block example.
 
:P they're fun. I also wrote a brute force solver as well, just so I can cross-check my equation-solving method
 
@MartinBüttner In that case will allowing non-optimal solutions allow more opportunity for heuristics and more variety in the answers?
 
i'm pretty sure it will
 
@MartinBüttner Brute force, Equation solver
 
@MartinBüttner i have not played enough battleblock theater apparently because i have no idea what that is
 
4:08 PM
111111111111111111111222 and 111111111111111111111234 could make interesting test cases :P
 
@undergroundmonorail they really don't appear that far into the game
 
yeah i haven't played very much though
 
(towards the bottom)
the red one called "Puzzle"
 
ohh OHH those things okayp
i was mistaken
 
@Sp3000 do you print all solutions?
 
4:16 PM
It should be all solutions modulo 4
 
does it print the shortest under rotation for each set?
 
Well the brute forcer tries everything from 0 to 3 toggles for each block so that one definitely does
I don't see why the other one wouldn't though, so I'd say yes
(It goes through all target levels from 0 to 3, then all possible toggles for the first block from 0 to 3 and solves the resulting equations)
Er... I use 0 to 3 because that's basically equivalent to 1 to 4, just easier to code :P
 
0 to 3 is correct for the output
 
For the block levels :P
 
4:24 PM
@Sp3000 ummm... I've been using 4 as inputs all the time, it seemed to work ^^
btw, could it be that the puzzle always has 4 solution if it has any?
 
It takes mod 4 internally is all I mean :P
 
ah right
 
Er, the trivial case 11 has more than 4
In the sense that you can do almost anything
I did find some 16 solution ones with more blocks though, but chances are some are equivalent in some way - I'll go see if I can find one
 
yeah just found some with more than 4
 
:P
 
4:32 PM
added test cases
 
I tried a bunch of times and they seem to happen when the number of blocks is 2 mod 3
 
so now I just need to decide between "Find any solution." "Find all 4/16/0 solutions." "Find an optimal solution."
 
Oh of course. e.g. for 8 blocks you can toggle blocks 1,4,7 or blocks 2,5,8 to increment them all by 1
Which I assume gives the 4*4=16
If I had to compare between the last two, I'd pick find optimal which is probably the more interesting one
Find any also works, but would probably need a few more test cases to compensate on people getting lucky in their search
 
4:48 PM
@Optimizer Did you mean "should not" for your APL rotation-safe comment?
 
no
err
 
Hi Jesus! Happy late birthday :)
 
yo homie
 
5:07 PM
@githubphagocyte @Sp3000 I think I'll post BattleBlock Theater as is... any further comments?
 
Not that I can think of
 
@MartinBüttner As long as you're clear about your final decision on what type of solution to require, it all looks clear to me...
 
@githubphagocyte Yeah, I think I'll go with any solution, to leave some more room for the choice of algorithm.
 
:) sounds good
I hope we see some naive incorrect algorithms. That'll be amusing :D
 
0
Q: Solve the BattleBlock Theater Puzzle

Martin BüttnerThe game BattleBlock Theater occasionally contains a puzzle which is a generalised version of Lights Out. You've got three adjacent blocks, each of which indicates a level between 1 and 4 inclusive with bars, e.g.: | |||| || If you touch a block, then that block as well as any adjacent block w...

 
5:12 PM
@Sp3000 oh! like the graph connection question!
 
Graph connection?
 
graph construction I guess
 
Ah, right :P
 
ah well
 
I was thinking of things like "while there's a block not at the same level as Block #1, toggle the first such block to match Block #1" :P
I think with graph construction everyone seems to have gone down the "Peter's algorithm" route
 
5:19 PM
:D
 
Okay 2 people. Not quite everyone.
:P
 
yeah . I still don't understand what APL does, but my 61 was the best I could make of of my algorithm
 
It's hard to look at APL and not go "I do want to learn that some day but those symbols are really putting me off"
 
true
its totally rubbish and pointless to have those symbols
since anyways they map directly on to the printable ASCII
 
The APL symbols are [supposed to be] mnemonic of their actions. They're a holdover from when APL was a written notation.
 
5:33 PM
@Sp3000 and now the rotation safe numbers
 
I've pretty much learnt: Never regex for anything like that
 
also, you can ignore that ^ learning if you are Martin
 
Actually, how do you Regex this... you'd need PCRE or .NET or something for recursion...
 
its not just regex
I hate when people just simply upvote without even checking the solution out
like ooohhh APL - UPVOTE
 
I think the question would have been better if it was just a truthy/falsy output for a given n
Because people are copying and pasting the entire output range, and not many people actually go through it before voting
 
5:50 PM
@Optimizer what?
 
read the two lines
 
yeah your sentence doesn't make sense to me. "you can ignore that ^ learning"?
 
the learning that never use regex for that
 
oh, I see
 
man.. u ruined it :P
 
5:54 PM
Ambiguous sentence :P
 
@Sp3000 it's definitely possible with both PCRE and .NET
 
Seems like it'd get long though :/
 
give it a go @MartinBüttner !
 
6:20 PM
@Optimizer hm, maybe. it won't be competitive because I'd still need to wrap it in a program to loop from 0 to n
so I guess I should do it in Ruby, because I don't know Perl, and C# is damn long
 
we already have 100 bytes plus solution
 
what we need is a .NET-based golfing language
 
C#Jam ?
CJam# ?
 
lol
.
(actually, what we need, is a golfing language that supports regex at all... other than Pyth...)
 
@MartinBüttner I started working on one a few months ago; perhaps I should continue working on it...
 
6:22 PM
what's it like?
 
I am planning to write an interpreter of CJam
once structured, I can add features
 
in what language?
 
ES6
JS
 
lol, why did I even ask
well, it's convenient, I guess
 
it actually make sense
yeah
 
6:23 PM
@MartinBüttner The purpose is that all classes have a shortcut to access; and that shortcut is the shortest, distinct piece of text to indicate a class.
 
I mean, it does sound convenient, but apart from reduce, map, filter. the whole spec of language is very difficult
maintaining the stack properly
dynamic array/etc creation
 
@Optimizer If you post it in time I'd gladly put a bounty on that, because currently my only option is oOo code...
 
@ProgramFOX wait so it's just a shortcut-C#?
 
@Sp3000 you mean Whitespace, no ?
only Whitespace was posted after u set the bounty
 
The Whitespace answer's been deleted for some reason
 
6:25 PM
@MartinBüttner Well, that's what it should be.
 
@Sp3000 oh, didn't see that
 
But after that was an oOo code submission (which awkwardly is mostly my code)
 
@Sp3000 I will defs not be able to finish it , but can have a working version which supports subset of language features
(i mean by the end of bounty period)
 
@ProgramFOX :/ ... I'm not a big fan of that.
I'm sure you can get more from it if you switch to a different paradigm
 
@MartinBüttner It's not likely to become a thing actually; too difficult to reach useful things.
 
6:28 PM
@Optimizer I meant convenient in the sense that you're most familiar with it, and that you can run it in a browser and locally
 
ah, yeah. also, coz stack snippet
 
Yeah there's also the char limit, so I wouldn't expect everything to be supported
 
I better start writing a non-shortcut golfing language, but I have more important projects to do :P
 
@Sp3000 the 30K limit ? It will surely not reach anything even close
 
:P k, maybe my JS was just lengthy then (I did have full variable names and all)
 
6:31 PM
I have written a full CSS parser/lexer and autocompletion engine
it was nowhere near 30K chars
i cant see how this can be lengthier
 
I tried to parse Python but it took me 10k :( maybe I just shouldn't JS
*10k and the parser was broken
 
why did u not post it ?
oh
 
It couldn't do the indents :/
 
well, real languages ought to be tougher
specially python with its weird indentation based hierarchy
 
I couldn't figure out how to get the parser generator to do it so I gave up :/
 
6:33 PM
New challenge sneak peek: math.stackexchange.com/q/1084853/116990
 
PP&CG - more like P&G
 
@Geobits nice :)
 
@Optimizer Proctor & Gamble?
 
yup
first time i read it like that only
 
Is this the new Collatz-Geobits conjecture?
 
6:37 PM
damn you're getting upvotes :D
 
Who's this Collatz guy? :P
 
upvotes on maths SE don't auto update ?
i have to reload to see updated
 
Mine are updating.
 
so are mine
 
must be a member thing
 
6:39 PM
@Optimizer did you hit the back button in your browser?
 
no, its not bfcached
 
i think i golf too much. i'm programming a real thing (just for me, thankfully, no one else will ever see this) and i can see the influence
2
i have whitespace and comments and real variable names and everything but
for example, i have a function that determines whether a number contained in a string is pandigital or not
is_pandigital = lambda s: len(s) == len(set(s)) == 9
perfectly fine code, but why is it a lambda? i don't know. because i can
 
what if it has a 0?
 
that is an excellent point
uh
and '0' not in s done
 
@Sp3000 if you're interested, battleblock theater just went on sale for a quid (whatever that is in your currency)
 
6:48 PM
@MartinBüttner Thanks, I was waiting for that to come around in the sale
That also tells me it's 5am. Damnit.
 
I think you misspelled squid. Also, who barters using animals any more? :P
2
 
(it's actually quite a funny coincidence that it went on sale an hour after I posted the challenge ^^)
 
here's another good one. i'm doing stuff with bunch of numbers (again, currently in strings). some are pandigital, some are not. i want to keep track of the greatest pandigital i've found so far
current_highest = max(current_highest, int(candidate)*is_pandigital(candidate))
 
@Geobits they are weird over here...
 
6:49 PM
someone stop me
 
It was bound to :P Now why didn't Can't Stop Laughing also go down...
(Oh well)
 
@Geobits At least they don't send bobcats in the mail.
 
True. They send them in the post, no?
 
lol
you win
 
@undergroundmonorail Personally, I'm having trouble ever typing .append(), always mentally reaching for +=[] first :P
 
6:51 PM
@Sp3000 yep, that's a big one
i often find myself cursing whoever it was who specifically hardcoded sum to not work on strings
 
TypeError: sum() can't sum strings [use ''.join(seq) instead] :(
 
post actually wins
 
Works on list though
 
''.join is so much longer though :(
one time i actually managed to save characters with k=str.join. that was a good day
 
6:53 PM
I also like to go ,sep="" until I realise that doesn't save chars
 
@Optimizer well I guess post has more meanings than mail
 
over what? adding to string and printing or..?
i use python2 because i'm a bad person
2
 
Printing yeah
I switched to Python 3 because of print, but I always tend to have to go back to lose a few chars in Python 2
I just like being able to do things like x and print(s)
 
most of my python2 golfs could be improved by switching to python3. i'm just stubborn
occasionally i can make use of auto-eval() on input() though
 
I find that Python 2 tends to do better :P due to input(), print() parens and backticks, mainly
(Battleblock get)
(I don't have the disk space to install it though :/)
 
6:57 PM
how.. big is it ?
 
@Sp3000 i don't do much complex stuff, mostly basic problems. if you can't make use of any of that, python3 tends to win out just because len('input();print()') < len('raw_input();print ')
 
2GB, but I'm on a laptop with SSD and never any free space
@undergroundmonorail A lot of questions allow input via function params, which negates quite a bit of that
 
@Sp3000 true
 
that's is why i did not replace my hdd with sdd, but bluray disk with ssd :P
 

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