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7:36 AM
@MartinBüttner Do you have to remember all of Mathematica's functions or do you just look them up when you come to use them? There seem to be an awful lot...
 
 
2 hours later…
9:21 AM
@BetaDecay I need to look up stuff all the time, and there are probably still useful functions that I've never heard of (or keep forgetting about). But of course, the longer you use it, the more of those functions you actually remember.
@Doorknob Could it be that several users' votes on this poll have been retracted as serial voting? Are you able to restore them?
 
9:45 AM
So with Ventero's help I just did the unthinkable... I beat Pyth [sic] with Ruby: codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/40883/8478 :)
 
10:40 AM
I give up on trying to parse Python :/ damn indents
 
 
1 hour later…
11:45 AM
aaaaaand Pyth strikes again...
 
grc
12:24 PM
@MartinBüttner Well just create a new language (Rub?) so that you win :D
 
regardless of that being disallowed, I'm not a fan of those... I don't mind golfing languages like CJam or GolfScript, or coincidentally terse languages like the APL family, but taking an existing language and just shortening all functions and useful constructs to single characters? meh...
even then, the language to do this for is Mathematica
 
@MartinBüttner Ahh I suppose it's the same for most languages
 
@MartinBüttner I would have no way to tell, neither would I be able to do anything about it.
 
@Doorknob damn :(
@BetaDecay For me the bigger problem is that, once I know a function fairly well, I forget to check for other signatures, and regularly use them suboptimally.
@Doorknob would you mind pinning a message in chat that tells people to check if their votes are still in place? (I can write that message)
 
grc
12:42 PM
@MartinBüttner the worst part is when they copy existing Python answers
 
@MartinBüttner Sure, you can write it and I'll pin it.
 
It looks like at least 4 users' votes on this poll on meta have been reverted as serial voting. Please check if your votes are still in place, and if not, cast them again - but slowly. ;)
3
 
grc
is serial voting detection really necessary for meta sites?
 
I posted the "Eating Candy in the Correct Order" golfing challenge: codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/40913/…
 
@PhiNotPi and it's raining rep for you ;)
if there's no CJam answer in 3-4 hours yet, I definitely want to give it a go
 
1:09 PM
I don't think 5 upvotes is considered "raining rep" nowadays.
 
1:37 PM
Scattered showering rep?
 
1:56 PM
hi
codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/40831/… is fun but I was wondering how hard it would be to write code that actually produced the pictures of rice
you would need a random rice grain generator
 
@PhiNotPi 4 upvotes in 15 views is pretty decent
 
hi @MartinBüttner
 
Now it's 9 votes in 75 views.
 
You could have a small number (say 5) rice grains, then scale them randomly and add shadows accordingly?
 
1:59 PM
@PhiNotPi still pretty good ;)
and there is the CJam answer... oh well
 
There should be a "rep weather station" to tell us the current rep weather conditions.
 
:) That's a great idea!
and a weather forecast
 
Something like this might help. Change it to get votes instead (if vote times are tracked, not sure).
 
I've never figured out how to run data.SE queries.
 
2:12 PM
There does appear to be a "CreationDate" listed under "Votes"
 
@MartinBüttner I love your defaults campaign on meta. It saves time. I assume the results are going to be added to the tag?
 
@Rainbolt yes, as the latter of the two questions states ;)
it came up recently on chat, so I thought, let's get a consensus on meta to link people to in the future
 
@MartinBüttner Hey, just because I love it doesn't mean I read anything but the first sentence.
 
I like some of the comments I'm getting on the candy eating question. "Finally someone that KNOW how to eat candies." "So... basically candy dithering." "This actually comes very close to how I eat my candy. :)"
 
2:32 PM
Hmm. It seems like our voting is back on a rise after an early October slump: data.stackexchange.com/codegolf/query/242407/…
 
The x-axis labeling doesn't seem correct.
 
Hmm, I just changed a found query from posts to votes. For the blind (me), what seems wrong about it?
 
Well, the title says "Per Hour" but the x-axis goes from July 1st to July 31st.
 
Wait, what? I don't see that at all.
 
Well, I must have ended up on something totally different then.
Looks correct, now that I clicked the link again....
 
2:40 PM
Weird :)
 
You edited the URL, didn't you? <checks revision history>
 
I'm not even sure if you're talking about the first or second link I pasted.
The second should never have been by hour, so I guess the first.
But I didn't edit that one.
 
Anyways, are these question or answer upvotes, or both?
 
both
 
Is there a way to smooth the data out by week?
 
2:46 PM
I'm sure there is. Please don't ask me to :P
 
It looks painful.
 
3:16 PM
I got a ping notice and only a removed ping to show for it :( You owe me a message.
 
he does that all the time
 
@Geobits At first I thought you said "You owe me a massage."
 
Well my neck has been a bit stiff the last couple days, so...
 
I said that the x-axis didn't look correct. And then I saw:
43 mins ago, by PhiNotPi
The x-axis labeling doesn't seem correct.
 
What is it with you guys and the damn x-axis? It looks fine to me ;)
 
3:20 PM
But seriously, who names a column "Month", groups by Month, and then spits out an hourly total?
 
Like I said, I didn't write it, just changed where it was grabbing data from (posts -> votes). That part I looked at, but said 'wtf' and just ran with it.
 
Also I think the post you linked to and the one being discussed were not the same :-/
I can't figure out how group by [Month] returns with 306 rows.
It's the outermost group by, so it should return 12 rows.
Unless it's counting years and months, in which case Stack Exchange would have to be 306 months old
 
Feel free to fix it up, but I thought it was only looking at 2014 anyway.
 
Oh yea, I see that now
 
And it's counting days I'd guess. 306 sounds about right for the Julian date today.
 
3:25 PM
That's insane. He took apart the entire datetime object just so that he could put it back together
 
Well, it's election day. I have some terrible choices to make for both the governor's and congressional races. Here's what Nate Silver had to say about it:
> I’ve written about Florida twice before. The story has been the same throughout campaign season. Voters dislike both candidates — former Republican governor turned Democrat Charlie Crist and current Republican Gov. Rick Scott. Both candidates’ net favorable ratings (favorable rating minus unfavorable rating) have been negative for most of their campaigns.
> The race may be remembered more for the fact that it features the two most disliked gubernatorial candidates over the past decade than for any particular policy or issue.
And people wonder why voter apathy is such an issue.
 
3:48 PM
Here's a much smoother upvotes and downvotes by month. data.stackexchange.com/codegolf/query/242439/…
 
did we kill code trolling in April?
 
May, but we definitely discouraged it starting a bit earlier. I'm guessing the KotH peak we had was over the summer, too, judging from the chart.
 
we didn't have a KotH in ages
there are several really good ones in the sandbox though
if I ever find the motivation to finish my tetris controller, I might actually work on one of those koths
 
I have an underhanded challenge for election day.
 
There's this one, but I'm unsure of it. The rules seem in flux, and it seems like there's too much possibility of insta-kill involved for me.
 
4:00 PM
You must build a voting station, but quietly rig the polls in favor of your party.
 
@Geobits oh right, totally forgot about that
@hosch250 I think that has been done
 
I'll need some 2x4s, a curtain, and a couple boxes of screws.
 
33
Q: It's not who votes that counts; it's who counts the votes

dan04The scenario You live in a country that is having a presidential election. Each voter gets one vote, and therefore there is a firmly-entrenched two-party system. (Third parties exist, but get hardly any votes). The latest opinion poll shows the race in a dead heat: 49%: Alberto Arbusto 49%:...

 
Ahhh, I'm too late :(
 
4:04 PM
You'd think a vampire would be better at wordplay. I mean, he's had a while to practice.
 
maybe it's hard to keep up with the pace the language changes
it's also not his first language
 
Damn kids and their newfangled slang :D
 
How can I make the scales on this graph less weird? data.stackexchange.com/codegolf/query/242469/…
It feels weird having 10s, 100s, and unscaled lines all on one graph
 
Maybe normalize them based on the max for each stat?
 
Oh I wonder if data explorer supports logarithmic scales
Oh duh. I can just log the data
Which is probably what you said
 
4:15 PM
@Rainbolt No I think he meant, don't scale them manually, but scale each of them to fit into 0 to 1, so you have the same 0-to-1 scale for each line
 
^^
 
Oh I see
Does data explorer not have a log function?
 
@Rainbolt no
 
:(
 
@Rainbolt I don't think it would help you much though, unless you want to show the differences between lines and not how each line changes.
 
4:22 PM
That's true
 
If you log that, the lines would become pretty flat, because none of them spans a full order of magnitude, but you'd get similar lines set a bit apart, by the different scales of the variables
 
I guess dividing by a factor was the easiest thing to do then
What the heck happened in March?
 
Code trolling hit its pre-ban peak.
 
I'm surprised that April was so low given the 54 answers on Wolf
Literally cut in half
Would anyone else be sad if the front page started scrolling faster? I kind of like the pace it has always been at.
If it starts to move faster, challenges will probably get less answers on average.
 
Yes. A bit faster would be okay, but it's nice to be able to see challenges as they're posted. On some larger sites, the front page is essentially useless.
Like, if I wanted to look for something to answer on SO, I'd never use it. I have to search by tag at a minimum.
 
4:29 PM
Also, what happened to our wonderful chat bot who announced new challenges?
I feel like it boosted participation
 
Died.
RIP.
 
When it was posting one-liners, it was nice.
Getting 15-20 one-liners per day is not spammy at all.
 
That's been off for ages.
That's why I always post mine myself.
 
Ask @Doorknob to resurrect it.
 
15-20?
you're optimistic ;)
 
4:31 PM
I was highballing, to preempt counters to my point.
 
clever
 
I recall some people didn't like seeing the one liners
 
I feel really out of ideas for decent code golf challenges :/
 
New code golf challenge: output a random code golf spec
 
How about a multi-thread producer/consumer challenge?
 
4:39 PM
ugh, threads
 
Must support mutual exclusion across a distributed system.
(Even harder.)
 
Fractal-code: your code forks like a fractal.
 
I thought about recognising valid IATA codes yesterday (as a sort of inverse kolmogorov challenge), but it would actually be quite boring.
 
Are you trying to create a stack overflow, @PhiNotPi?
 
There are just too many for any meaningful manual optimisation, so on would probably just treat the input as base 26 and look it up in the bits of a fairly large number.
 
4:43 PM
@MartinBüttner Indeed, my votes are removed there. Thanks for notifying!
 
@ProgramFOX no problem
here is a simple idea:
output an ascii representation of a DVI plug's pins, with an input parameter for the type of DVI: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Visual_Interface#mediaviewer/…
sweet... finally got the Proofreader badge... now I've got all bronze badges that I can and want to have ^^
 
I'm 21% of the way there.
I think I'll get Reviewer on SO before I get it here.
 
this helped:
6
Q: Review Stalker user script

Camil StapsThis is a very basic user script which does the following: Checks the Review homepage if there's anything you can review If so, it changes the title to (n) old_title where n is the number of review tasks you can perform If not, it refreshes the page in 15 seconds Install the script This i...

 
I don't think I'm in that much of a hurry to get it.
 
5:02 PM
wrote up a spec for that, let me know if it's too boring
(the sandbox bot will probably post it in a few minutes)
 
I need to learn socket programming.
I want to write a star bot and turn it loose in the trash can over on SO.
Just for practice.
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

Martin BüttnerDVI Connector Pins code-golf kolmogorov-complexity This is supposed to be a code golf challenge on the simpler end of the spectrum. There are three basic types of DVI connectors: DVI-A (analog), DVI-D (digital) and DVI-I (integrated). Furthermore, there are single-link and dual-link versions o...

 
@MartinBüttner Is there a typo in the A pin?
It is not symmetric like the rest.
 
it's not supposed to be
see the wikipedia link
 
You're right.
I know we have had a brute-force Sudoku solver.
Have we ever had an algorithmic solver?
I helped someone debug their atrocious stack-overflowing Sudoku solver on SO recently, and it took forever if there were no values entered.
 
Brute-force backtrack style.
Peter Taylor is a jealous about GolfScript being ruled out as I am about C++: "Boo. 'Not print anything, not even a newline' rules out GolfScript."
 
5:26 PM
There's something sinister going on with this question: meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/q/2447
I have voted on all answers. Twice. Some votes seem to randomly disappear.
 
5 hours ago, by Martin Büttner
It looks like at least 4 users' votes on this poll on meta have been reverted as serial voting. Please check if your votes are still in place, and if not, cast them again - but slowly. ;)
 
It thinks you a serial voting on it.
 
Serial voting reversal on a meta post that is also community wiki? Sigh.
 
ikr...
 
Does anyone know if our sandbox is the largest thread on SE yet?
 
5:37 PM
@PhiNotPi I doubt it
 
One day... it will be.
 
I think it may be. After we merged it I did a search, and the largest I remember was in the 600s somewhere (650ish IIRC).
 
Including all the deleted posts, we are at 689 right now (soon to be 690).
 
5:54 PM
I'm trying to create an "Underhanded Bookmaking" contest idea thingy, but I'm not sure how it would work.
 
43
Q: Empowering tag-badge holders part II - let's look at silver?

Tim PostNot long ago, we gave folks that have a gold tag badge the ability to instantly mark a question as a duplicate of another. This has worked out exceptionally well in practice. While there have been some disputed closings, the process is completely transparent and community oversight has worked jus...

 
You guys should read this quick: stackoverflow.com/questions/184618/…
I almost choked.
 
I think I read all of that even before I had an account on the network ^^
 
He linked both of those above ;)
 
6:07 PM
Oh, OK.
I lost track of where I found them!
 
I'm trying to robber-proof something for the scrambler in the sandbox, but need a quick verification. From what I can tell, there's no way to comment (or otherwise bypass code) in python without the # character, correct?
 
put it in a string?
 
Try """ this is my comment """
 
K, covered that one by not having any string delimiters ('"). Anything else?
 
is it valid code?
 
6:12 PM
Yep.
 
put it in an if 0: ?
 
Covered, those characters not present.
 
for?
 
well if f isn't present ^^
while?
 
no spaces, colons, semicolons, or any alphabetical (either case) except print
 
6:13 PM
How does it run?
 
no numeric beside 2
 
Do any widely used languages still have a remark statement instead of comment characters?
 
You mean you wrote a Python program with only print2?
 
It's a single print statement with a bunch of 2 and operators.
 
I was going to suggest a dict...
Why do you need to comment?
 
6:14 PM
he doesn't
 
No, I'm trying to make sure nobody can. That way all characters must be used.
 
he wants to make sure one has to use all the characters he used in the code
ninja'd
 
I think I'm good, though. Thanks!
 
Oh, Ok.
If it is a bunch of 2's and operators, I'll write a Python script to brute-force it.
Maybe.
 
Just trying to figure out which of my candidates to use, though. I have varying lengths from 60 to 34, and need to figure out how short I can make it while making it infeasible to brute-force it in a week :/
 
6:17 PM
I think you'd need a couple of thousand characters.
Or even a couple million.
 
no probably not
permutations increase very quickly
 
I doubt I'd need that many...
 
I will know the output, I could probably solve for the output, then make the extra 2's evaluate to 0...
You know, +2-2....
 
if you've got that many +s and -s ;)
 
No +s :D
One -
 
6:19 PM
It will be a little more complex, but still...
OK, * and /, and maybe %.
Still not bad.
BTW, which version of Python, 2?
 
Or **. Or 22, 222, 2222... you still have to check permutations.
 
I see. Yeah.
 
No, 3 (so you have a single pair of parentheses, but no spaces or newlines)
 
OK, great.
Let me know when you post it.
 
the question isn't even up yet :P
 
6:24 PM
I know it isn't up.
 
Hmm. It looks like I need to make doubly sure I use a version with only a single pair of parentheses. Adding an unconnected bunch of junk to the end in a pair still gives output (along with a runtime error).
 
Typing print(22)22222 just gives an error for me.
 
You know, sometimes when you're reading some text, and in the corner of your eye, you notice that in some portion of the text the spaces form some sort of line across multiple rows?
Does that have a name?
 
I meant like this: print(123)(123). Meaning I can't use more than the single pair in my scramble, otherwise people could shove junk in the last pair as long as the first evals right.
@MartinBüttner No name that I know of, but I do that too :P
 
@Rainbolt ? :) I remember you being familiar with some typesetting jargon
 
6:30 PM
Alternatively, use python 2 and no parentheses at all.
 
@Geobits k... I was thinking that could make a nice challenge. given some text, find a line length between (say) 80 and 100 characters which minimises the length of such space streets (where, in monospace, a street is any connected path of spaces where you go either straight down or one step diagonally as you traverse lines)
 
So minimize the sum of all street lengths?
 
probably the maximum
 
Sounds interestingly simple.
 
it might be more interesting if I use just straight down, because that might allow for some interesting optimisations (over just trying out every length and finding all streets)
 
6:36 PM
@PhiNotPi How is your challenge going to work? Is it going to be cops must create programs which have output X and robbers must crack them, or is each cop going to post his problem in an individual question?
 
@hosch250 Usually, cops answer the questions, and robbers either comment or they get a separate question to put their answers in.
 
Yeah, but I'm not sure if this is going to be a cops/robbers challenge or just similar.
 
I was think that cops answer the question (they get to pick their own output) and robbers comment on the answers.
This seems like a cops-and-robbers challenge to me.
 
@MartinBüttner I think then it becomes a lot like a sieve, checking each multiple until non-space found.
 
OK, so this question is going to be a little like the sandbox, running indefinitely?
 
6:39 PM
@Geobits Hm, yeah I think it gets a bit boring in Python where you can index sieve-style very easily.
 
I will post my cop after the robbers have pretty much been inactive for a long time.
 
@hosch250 That might be a good strategy to get the checkmark, but not upvotes.
 
Yeah, I guess.
 
1 checkmark = 1.5 upvotes
 
Two upvotes outdo the check, so I guess not.
 
6:40 PM
@hosch250 that's why I closed my cops and robbers challenge
 
Maybe each challenge should run for a limited time, such as 1 month.
Then, the community can decide if another is wanted, and keep it in control.
 
Maybe until every cop submission is immune?
 
No, I think normal challenges should be left open. c'n'r challenges are really the only ones, where closing them makes sense
 
I meant cops and robbers for the limited time.
 
right
well, there's no need to set the deadline right away
 
6:42 PM
Exactly, this was a tentative suggestion with an example.
 
I'd probably wait until no more answers come in, and all submissions are safe, and then announce a deadline for a week later.
 
How could all submissions be safe once one is cracked?
 
well, safe or cracked
i.e. no submissions pending any more
 
OK.
 
what is a reasonable limit on output length?
 
6:46 PM
Does there need to be a limit?
 
100 chars? Maybe too large?
Well, I can see solutions with outputs approaching infinity.
 
Maybe a time limit as opposed to a character limit?
 
while(1)print(0);
 
It seems to me that the longer the output the easier it would be to unscramble (assuming the code is the same length), but I may be wrong.
 
Maybe.
Not necessarily.
 
6:48 PM
I don't see the harm in a limit, though, so it doesn't matter to me. Mine is short :P
 
Why do people even use OSX?
My Windows is about 10 times as powerful as my mom's OSX, but many of my family like OSX, and my mom is planning on getting an Apple desktop.
Of course, all she does is social media and email.
iPhoto is slower than cold molasses, because it loads each of 2000+ photos every time it is opened (who would be that dumb to implement it this way anyway?), and I am almost positive it has memory leaks.
Whenever you open a reasonably sized program, the entire computer slows down until you reboot.
Or maybe it is external fragmentation, and OSX isn't smart enough to use compaction (literally just read that in my textbook).
I mean, I just learned about this from the textbook, nothing about OSX said.
Just called for lunch, see you!
 
7:08 PM
@MartinBüttner Huh?
 
@Rainbolt No? You were talking about orphans and windows at some point.
 
Oh. It's called rivers.
 
They are more prominent in center justified paragraphs IIRC
 
@Geobits btw, no it wouldn't be like a sieve with straight rivers. because the line breaks should only occur at spaces
 
7:10 PM
First World Problems: When I set my car's MP3 player to "random", it's completely deterministic :(
@MartinBüttner Oh, so no word-breaking? Yea, that's better.
 
yeah definitely no word breaking
 
It's incredible how many weird things you can learn in a single graphic design class.
 
@MartinBüttner Isn't it widows? My mom was a graphics design pro for a while.
 
@hosch250 yes, typo
 
OK.
 
7:17 PM
I need an introduction for the Unscramble challenge.
 
I'm not sure you do. It reads fine as is, IMO.
 
Welcome to the world of Unscrambistan.
That sounds too middle-eastern.
Lamscruben.
 
Is it bad if something sounds middle-eastern?
 
No, not bad. It should sound like it could be anywhere, though.
Maybe Lamscruben sounds too alien (but these people talk in an alien way).
Also, it is a little similar to the Quewopistan challenge.
 
Arstotzska?
 
7:23 PM
How about "Unscramble the Source Code" ? :P
 
"Source the Code Unscramble"?
 
Sounds like a Mexican delicacy.
 
I'm about to post it, any objections?
 
Or maybe Russian.
Nope.
No objections.
 
hi
 
7:26 PM
@felix Hey
 
Hi.
 
@Calvin'sHobbies On the Tetris Jumblers vs Rebuilders challenge, what does immunity mean?
 
but I am surprised it is so hard!
 
1
Q: Unscramble the Source Code

PhiNotPiIn this game of cops-and-robbers, each cop will write a simple program to give a single output. They will then make public four things about their program: The language The program length The desired output A scrambled-up version of the source code Then, the robbers must unscramble the sourc...

 
7:33 PM
@PhiNotPi So the robbers get rep, you should do what Calvin's Hobbies does and have two different questions.
2
Maybe it's too late now though
 
No, just posted. Not too late.
 
It's not too late.
Should I do that?
 
Yeah, it's quite a popular method
Also if you're a rep whore, it gives you two places from which you can get rep ;)
 
"it's quite a popular method" is a bit of an exaggeration, because so far only Calvin's Hobbies used it (twice in a row), but there's some support for it here
 
Hm I thought there were more challenges like that...
 
7:44 PM
@BetaDecay Everyone is a rep whore at heart.
5
 
Haha the truest thing I've read all day :D
 
Speaking of rep whores, I upped the reward on my tetris cop to 500. Still not expecting much participation.
 
There seem to be very few Tetris robbers at the moment...
 
Yea, that's the point of the reward ;)
 
hi
could someone take a look at meta.codegolf.stackexchange.com/a/2462/9206 please
 
7:54 PM
@user2179021 what do cyclic matrices have to do with the rest of the question?
 
0
A: Sandbox for Proposed Challenges

LembikFind largest matrix with property X This challenge is partly an algorithms challenge and partly an optimization challenge. A cyclic matrix is fully specified by its first row r. The remaining rows are each cyclic permutations of the row r with offset equal to the row index. We will allow cyclic...

 
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