@Jutschge I'm never playing Kayle top again.

@Yuuki :(

What matchup?

@Jutschge Heimerdinger.

@Yuuki Yeah ok that's a weird matchup... who the fuck plays Donger?

@Jutschge Who plays Donger? Two matches in a row last night.

I mean you could simply outfarm/outscale him but as soon as you go in for the kill you'll die

Can't outfarm him if you can't farm early.

Also it's somewhat boring to simply farm all day

Until you get a lot of ranks in E, you're basically a squishy melee.

Hmm you can farm under your turret as Kayle

He can harass you under turret by putting down his own turrets and connecting with grenade.

It's just a really rough match-up.

I mean the grenade is somewhat easy to dodge though

The matchup is pretty even tbh but it's super boring and you rely on your team to win

Whoever engages loses

That's the worst kind of matchup imo... I really like to play aggressive and that really takes the fun out :(

@Jutschge The other problem is that kind of match-up tends to be snowbally.

Once the other guy gets a kill, it's a lot easier for him to actually win engages.

@Yuuki Usually yes but somehow not vs heimer... he's a somewhat special opponent in that case

same with Illaoi

Those champs just benefit so much from getting attacked

Also a thing with Kayle: You get back into the game pretty fast

But yeah... Kayle doesn't really have an effective tool to clear his turrets

Maybe I should've played Quinn.

I haven't played Quinn top in forever.

She's pretty strong from what I've seen in the past few games

Although against heimer it's about the same problem

IIRC, she has an easier time of clearing his turrets though.

Depends... You could use your Q to kill his turrets but that costs a lot of mana.

With Kayle you usually kill his turrets by hitting an enemy next to it

With Quinn you can pretty much oneshot heimer after a certain point though

Really, the champ I have the most problems with is Tryndamere. I can shut him down early and get 6 kills up but I can never leave lane.

Thinking back, maybe I need to force duels to get him killed and then immediately join my team and force objectives.

But that's difficult without Teleport.

By the time I get there, he's already respawned and running back towards lane.

@Yuuki In general or as Kayle/Quinn?

@Jutschge In general.

Last night, I played a game as Camille.

Shut him down super hard early to the point where I could stand between him and his own minion wave without really worrying.

But we still ended up losing because I just couldn't be anywhere near my team and they couldn't 4v4.

Well the easiest thing to do is playing something that outscales him. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of champs that can do that.

You can also bully him super hard but then you have to know how to abuse your advantage

And that takes forever to learn

It feels like Teleport is required to play against Tryndamere.

Yup always

Unless you're Kench or Panth maybe

But still... TP is super strong on toplane in general

I've chosen to take Ignite more recently because I just can't find good Teleport plays (it's hard to teleport to wards that don't exist) and at least Ignite will help me win my own lane.

@Yuuki Don't take TP looking for plays. It's also a great tool for wave control

If I fight against a toplaner without TP I often win because I can force him out of lane

Also ganks have a huge impact. If you're unexpectedly sent back without TP you'll lose a huge chunk of gold/experience.

TP plays are nice but they don't happen too often in non competitive games.

If I have a good duelist with Ignite though, I can typically force other toplaners to go back right after TPing in.

So really, the pros for TP is mostly pushing map advantages.

If I can get a kill in, then I can TP bot and force a 5v4 at dragon.

I mean ignite does give you stronger duels but usually a lane isn't won by duels but by lane control

If I see a toplaner with ignite I usually avoid fighting him unless I can see an advantage

TPing to other lanes is mostly done if you already have a huge advantage or if you 100% know that you're getting 2+ kills or a turret out of it