ELL's Cabin

Damkerng T.

00:11

@Catija It seems so!

StackExchange

17:58

0

Q: Is this question "reopenable" by a single vote?

We vote to close a question which is not in accordance with the rules and guidelines specified on Help Center of ELL. We need consensus (five votes unless a moderator is involved) to decide whether it should be closed or not. We vote to reopen a question which was unduly closed (by misundersta...

Rathony

18:23

@PhMgBr Hi

PhMgBr

@Rath hullo

@PhMgBr Read the question again. I am not raising an issue on whether a mod should have a single hammer or not. I am raising an issue on how it should/could/might be used. Gold dupehammer is a good example. The decision to reopen the question is completely arbitrary and uncalled for. A single vote would have been enough to get consensus of this community. — Rathony 10 mins ago

No no @Rath, it's perfectly fine to question mod actions, and reopens on the site.

Rathony

I just saw your latest comment. Digging a bit more into the topic doesn't make a difference.

PhMgBr

It does. It's all about answers. If the answers do not satisfy the OP, it's not a dupe.

Rathony

@PhMgBr 5 users agreed the question is a dupe.

PhMgBr

@Rathony And 1 user believed that it isn't. Considering the user-base that can close, none of these numbers are meaningful.

Rathony

18:25

You know better than me how simple it is to use "which" or "that".

PhMgBr

Esp. considering the fact that a lot of dupe close-votes are pile-on.

(A lot of reopen votes are pile-on too, but it doesn't apply in this case)

Rathony

ELL's votes are all pile ons

Used to be.

I don't want to see one moderator reopen a question.

I don't care about one moderator closing a question.

PhMgBr

@Rathony This sentence implies you're against the single-vote feature.

Which I asked for in my first comment.

If you're questioning the closure/reopen of a question, then the single vote discussion is irrelevant.

Rathony

@PhMgBr I am not against the single vote feature as long as it is used reasonably

PhMgBr

If you're discussing why they have the binding vote, then the reopen is irrelevant.

Choose one.

Rathony

18:29

@PhMgBr I have never raised such an issue on ELU.

PhMgBr

@Rathony So are you against it, or not?

Rathony

I am not. absolutely

PhMgBr

Are you against it in your meta post?

Rathony

Nope

PhMgBr

@Rathony Then if you're discussing the question's reopening, the single vote is unrelated.

Remove it from your question.

Rathony

18:30

Why?

PhMgBr

Let the meta post focus on the reopen.

Rathony

I don't think it is fair

PhMgBr

Meta.ELL posts are already too fruitless when focused on a single topic.

Let alone two.

Rathony

My point is it is not fair for one vote to override 5 votes.

PhMgBr

Now you are against the binding vote.

Rathony

18:32

Yeap. I am against it.

PhMgBr

Then the reopen is irrelevant.

Rathony

Yeap.

PhMgBr

If you want to discuss it, open another meta post.

Rathony

As long as it is exercised in the right way

I am fine.

In democracy, one vote can't override 5 votes.

PhMgBr

Your current meta title should only contain "why can a mod's single vote override the vote of five members of the community"?

Rathony

18:34

Is my question misleading?

PhMgBr

And your post should contain your thoughts on this, maybe marginally referring to the reopen instance.

@Rathony Right now it's impossible to tell which you wanna discuss.

And a piece of advice: Don't use the words "unfair", "treatment" etc. in your post.

Rathony

OK. Let's wait for other users' responses

PhMgBr

@Rath I'm deleting the obsolete comments now.

Rathony

What do you mean by "open another meta post"?

PhMgBr

Write another one, I mean.

Rathony

18:37

For?

PhMgBr

Discussing whether that question should be closed, or remain open.

Don't question the mod's decision, because that's not related to the current state of the question.

Rathony

Don't question the mod's decision. That statement is very risky

I will always question the mod's decision.

The mod is not a dictator.

If (s)he behaves like one, (s)he should be removed. That's a democratic process.

PhMgBr

I'm not saying not to question his decision.

Don't question it in that post.

Rathony

Well, I think I am the only one who can do it on ELL.

PhMgBr

That post is a place for you to discuss the closure and the reopen of a question.

Rathony

18:40

I don't give a fuck.

Catija

You're interpreting that incorrectly... It's not about requesting an explanation for their action rather than saying that the action is wrong.

You can't know why the action was taken.

PhMgBr

@Rathony Do give a fuck if you want results.

Catija

... unless you ask.

PhMgBr

If you don't, then maybe you're just looking for some argument.

Rathony

@Catija Hello.

@PhMgBr Well, I am not looking for some argument. I am looking for explanation.

PhMgBr

18:43

And what are you going to do with that explanation?

Catija

But you phrase it as an attack on you and the five voters... instead of simply asking "why was this decision made?". There's no reason to phrase it the way you have.

Rathony

Well, it depends on explanations.

PhMgBr

@Rathony You're looking at this the wrong way.

Catija

Mods in some cases do need to make unilateral decisions on things... but what is important is understanding why.

PhMgBr

You should be the person that helps build a building, not stand aside and nitpick on builders' actions.

Rathony

18:44

@Catija If one vote overrides five votes, it could be interpreted that way.

PhMgBr

Providing that you are here to help.

@Rathony Don't interpret it that way.

Try to be constructive, not like the police.

You're not the police.

Rathony

@PhMgBr Do you know how many my comments on dupe were deleted?

PhMgBr

72,892?

Rathony

No, 1000000000

Catija

@Rathony Are you missing that I'm saying that it is sometimes appropriate...?

Rathony

18:46

When is it appropriate @Catija?

PhMgBr

When the five users are in the wrong.

You're assuming you're right and he's wrong.

That pre-assumption is gonna get you downvotes, and no useful results.

Just another headache out of a meta discussion.

Catija

@Rathony When the five users are wrong... or the users don't understand site policies... or any number of reasons.

Rathony

@PhMgBr What I am trying to say is 5 users agreed and you are not supposed to override their decision by one single vote. That's all

PhMgBr

@Rathony Why not?

Catija

@Rathony Um... no. That's not part of the site rules anywhere.

PhMgBr

18:48

Are you saying any mod actions done that override some users' actions all over the SE are unjustified?

Hahahahahaha no.

BBL dinner

Rathony

@PhMgBr Again, you misinterpreted my intention. I absolutely agree with what a moderators can do. I don't agree with a single vote that can reopen a post which was closed by 5 votes.

PhMgBr

> You misinterpreted me. I agree that mods should do X. But mods shouldn't do X.

Rathony

yeap. mods shouldn't do x

@PhMgBr What difference does it make?

PhMgBr

No differences.

I just quickly ate dinner and am back. :P

Rathony

@PhMgBr I got to go.

PhMgBr

18:54

See ya.

Rathony

One thing.

Fairness

PhMgBr

Yeah, fairness. Don't assume you're always right and the other side's wrong.

Rathony

@PhMgBr Yeap. I would not have voted to reopened the question if I had had the power.

Big difference.

PhMgBr

@Rathony Look man. We're running in circles.

First you were questioning the question's reopening, then mod's binding vote, then reopening, then again mod's binding vote.

Unless you want to choose one topic, I get the feeling J.R. is in your debt and you're asking for your money, rather trying to have a friendly conversation in the end of which everyone goes home happy.

Rathony

@PhMgBr Well, it depends.

PhMgBr

18:59

It shouldn't depend.

Rathony

@PhMgBr As long as ELL is managed as it is supposed to be, why would I ask such a question?

PhMgBr

If you want to have a productive interaction, you should only look for the latter.

Friendly conversation, friendly criticism, leading by example.

You're not in a court.

Rathony

@PhMgBr Can you post an answer to the NOW reopened question? Please go ahead.

PhMgBr

@Rathony You fix problems step-by-step. They won't go away if you say you can't fix them.

@Rathony I haven't posted an answer on ELL for some months and I do not wish to break that record, thankuverymuch.

Rathony

@PhMgBr Well, a problem on ELl is fixed step by step. More attention is required. ]

PhMgBr

19:01

What is the problem? A mod?

Rathony

@PhMgBr Well, let's see.

PhMgBr

No.

Tell me what you have in mind.

Rathony

@PhMgBr Later. I got to run tomorrow and need to sleep.

See you.

PhMgBr

Night.

Anonymous

23:23

@Rathony Please, try to keep the discussion friendly.

Damkerng T.

coming in ...

Damkerng T.

23:59

leaving ...

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