ELL's Cabin

jimsug

00:14

The problem is if a user has a question about the word correct.

tchrist

00:25

@jimsug ’Fraid that’s a risk worth running here.

I have hundreds and hundreds of ELU crap questions whose title has correct in them that should never have been asked.

jimsug

Thing is, that'll lead to worse titles like "Is the use of the below word right?"

tchrist

We even have a fricking correct tag on ELU.

jimsug

Hmm.

tchrist

Then we ban right.

jimsug

I'm not opposed to it, as such; just a consideration, that's all.

tchrist

00:26

Those people are not salvageable.

jimsug

Heh.

I would want to look at the data, but I'm not opposed to a ban on correct, as such.

tchrist

No question that wants a one-bit answer of 0 or 1 is of any future use to anyone else. It is a waste of people's time and resources, and there are infinitely many of them. No really: multiply all possible learners of English by all possible English sentences and all possible ways to screw them up. Infinite.

We already consider proofreading off-topic.

Anonymous

Hey everyone, do you round your lips when you say [ʃ] and [ʒ]? That is, do you say [ʃʷ] and [ʒʷ] when you say dish and beige? (The raised small w indicates labialization.)

jimsug

Yeah, that's true.

tchrist

That doesn't stop the damned IS THE BELOW SENTANCE MINE GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT SIR questions.

Anonymous

00:29

You can look in a mirror to see if you round your lips.

jimsug

@snailboat No, I think my lips only move because of the adjacent vowel.

tchrist

@snailboat I don't think so.

jimsug

No rounding; just some involuntary movement.

tchrist

Only on an r sound.

Anonymous

I wonder how much variation there is. All the California speakers I just checked do it.

Anonymous

00:31

I'm from Illinois, and I don't.

tchrist

I’m from 7 miles north of Illinois, and I don't.

Anonymous

00:53

@jimsug Has this ever happened, by the way?

jimsug

I don't think so.

Anonymous

If it did, the problem could be worked around. I mean, it wouldn't be ideal, but it'd be possible.

jimsug

Mmm.

Anonymous

@jimsug Do you labialize your [ʃ] and [ʒ]?

Anonymous

Oh, you answered. Thanks :-)

Anonymous

01:00

@tchrist Thanks to you, also :-) I'm probably going to write a description of the difference between the Japanese [ɕ] and [ʑ] and the English [ʃ] and [ʒ]

tchrist

i think I might round my lips shushing people.

I stick them out like in cool when say shhhh!

Anonymous

And one of the textbook differences is labialization. But since I don't do that, I got curious if my pronunciation was unusual or if there were other people like me.

tchrist

But there isn’t much of that, if any, in ship.

The shhhh thing is different. I don't know why.

Anonymous

I'm currently making people say shhhh. :-)

Anonymous

Rounding!

tchrist

01:03

This may be biasing you.

Anonymous

It's easier in person since I can make people say words without telling them what I'm looking for.

tchrist

Try seen and sheen as a minimal pair.

You are going to get more rounding with an upcoming /o/ or /u/ type vowel then with an /i/ or /e/.

So Sioux and shoe.

Regressive assimilation of the rounded vowel.

Or sit and shit if that doesn't bother you or them too much.

Sigh and shy.

Pretty sure you know about how almost all North Americans and most Irish have [ɻʷ] for phonemic r.

I imagine that is a very, very, very hard sound for Japanese people.

Anonymous

Anonymous

From Acoustic Strategies for Production of American English "retroflex" /r/ (Zhang et al., 2003)

tchrist

Ew, parts!

It’s probably only fair; Americans probably cannot pronounce the sibilant in Zhang the way the author does either. :)

Brazilians sometimes have an American r. It is so weird to hear in a Romance language.

Especially in the syllable coda.

Anonymous

04:23

itre.cis.upenn.edu/myl/languagelog/archives/005287.html

CopperKettle

Hi, @snails!

@snailboat You teach people (the?) English language? Cool!

Mushroom hunting

Mushroom hunting, mushrooming, mushroom picking, mushroom foraging, and similar terms describe the activity of gathering mushrooms in the wild, typically for eating. This is popular in most of Europe, including the Nordic, Baltic, and Slavic countries and the Mediterranean Basin, as well as in Australia, Japan, Korea, Canada, the Indian subcontinent, and the northwestern, northeastern, Midwestern and Appalachian United States. == Identifying mushroomsEdit == A large number of mushroom species are favored for eating by mushroom hunters. The king bolete is a popular delicacy. Sulphur shelf (also...

It's called hunting, hehe

In Russian it's Пойти по грибы, "To go for mushrooms"

Anonymous

04:46

I just make them say shhhh, actually.

Anonymous

Also, hi! :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:38

Hmm, I have some ideas for an ELL question.

Damkerng T.

waiting...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

\o

Damkerng T.

o/

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

My question is about emphasis.

Damkerng T.

Oh, in speech?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:42

I know I can emphasize the verb in this sentence:

> I eat lunch.

by adding an auxiliary:

> I do eat lunch.

But how about

> I am a student.

?

The thing I'm used to do is italicizing "am". But that isn't always possible.

Damkerng T.

I think, technically, you can choose to emphasize any. But typically, it would be "I'm a STUdent."

Anonymous

That's polar emphasis. You're emphasizing the affirmative polarity of the sentence by adding stress to the auxiliary. If one is not present, you add do. In your latter example, am is an auxiliary.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

So how can I polarly emphasize the second sentence?

> I do am a student.

Anonymous

Stress am.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Is of course incorrect.

Damkerng T.

08:45

To emphasize am, I think it would come out as "ai(Y)AM a student."

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Not speech, literature.

Anonymous

No, be is an auxiliary already. Don't add the dummy do.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'M NOT TALKING ABOUT SPEECH.

Damkerng T.

Oh! Sorry! :D

Anonymous

Doesn't matter. Use italics.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:45

I mean I'm not talking about speech.

Anonymous

They'll represent the stress in writing.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat So there's no way?

Damkerng T.

"I am a student."

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hmm, this struck me somewhere I wasn't allowed to use slanted and emboldened formatting.

Anonymous

No way to do what? Are you saying you want a more formal paraphrase that you can use without conveying stress in print?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

08:46

Trying to remember when and where

Anonymous

If it's informal, just put a brick on the capslock pedal. I AM a student.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It wasn't . . . I don't interact informally when I'm writing homework.

Damkerng T.

In handwriting?

Anonymous

If it's formal, then you can't use the auxiliary stress thingy even in speech.

Damkerng T.

I guess underlining the word would have the same effect.

Anonymous

08:48

You need a paraphrase.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. No, I was typing. I mean, TeXing.

Go on.

Anonymous

What paraphrase would work depends on context you haven't provided.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

K let me go find context.

BTW the chat community ad is one +1 away from 6 votes.

Damkerng T.

puff (a context appears): "As for me, I simply think of myself as a student, because I know that I am a student."

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm subtly remembering . . .

Anonymous

08:50

Yay

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh I'll come back. I'm going to buy some bread. BRB

Anonymous

Good luck, breadnought!

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Have some bread for me. :D

I have to take care of my pipelines too. I think the rain last night damaged some part of it.

Anonymous

Oh no!

Anonymous

Good luck, pipe dreamer!

Damkerng T.

08:56

Thanks! -- Its the burden of someone who has underground pipelines. :P

Ahh... something is indeed broken.

(or something has broken off)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

09:17

Back!

@snail @Dam @Arrow spam ell.stackexchange.com/questions/67424/…

user116848

Yeah okay, thanks.

user116848

I have a question. After how many hours does the rep cap expire?

user116848

And hi.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hi!

@Arrowfar After the day ends.

Whoa, you rep-capped? Nice!

user116848

Oh, I see.

user116848

09:22

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yeah yesterday.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

After the day ends in GMT. That is, 5:00 a.m. your time, I think.

user116848

72

A: Is there an etiquette for who goes in "CC" and who goes in "To" for emails?

To: The To field is used for people that the message directly affects and who we require an action from. Cc: The Cc (or carbon copy) field is used for people who are not directly involved but who we like to keep informed. Bcc: Finally, the Bcc field (Blind Carbon Copy) is used when we want p...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Workplace. Nice.

user116848

I gave a very simple answer and got that many votes ;-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Simple answers get that many votes.

user116848

09:26

Looking forward to get a Great answer badge. Let's see.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BTW @Snail I'm gonna prolly ask that on ELL.

Would you answer?

user116848

Jimsug made a really nice ad. I upvoted!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Thanks!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

10:09

0

Q: What 'buzzwords' should we ban or give a warning about in question titles?

A little while ago I revealed my evilish devilish plans about question titles. Let's review what we did: Write some FAQ. Clean up some titles and lead by example. Get some help from the system to stop the bad titles to reappear in the questions. Our greatest buzzwords are: (Sorting is 'wor...

@TCh there you go.

@Dam proofread please. :D

Damkerng T.

Scarcely available at the moment. Hold, please.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Just kidding. :)

Damkerng T.

:D

Stack Exchange

0

Q: What 'buzzwords' should we ban or give a warning about in question titles?

A little while ago I revealed my evilish devilish plans about question titles. Let's review what we did: Write some FAQ. Clean up some titles and lead by example. Get some help from the system to stop the bad titles to reappear in the questions. Our greatest buzzwords are: (Sorting is 'wor...

discussion title

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@StackExchange So slow. Pfft.

Damkerng T.

10:19

> Our greatest buzzwords are: (Sorting is 'worst', descending)

This is probably better:

> Our greatest buzzwords are: (in 'worst'-scale order, descending)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Huh wait. I contradicted myself.

But it's kinda funny.

@DamkerngT. I instead went with 'sorting by 'worst''.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... if you use by, I think (sorted by 'worst') is probably better.

It's not the most important thing in the post, anyway.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hee, Snail hasn't edited 'what are' yet.

Damkerng T.

I think both are acceptable, though What is is probably slightly better.

For some reason, my Node.js won't start after the power glitch.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Nude.js?

Damkerng T.

10:25

Node, not Nude!

Oh, we have a haiku in our answers!

3

A: seven and 10 are numbers or time?

“Spell out numbers less than 10” This simple haiku Explains why seven is used As for the word between, we use the word and in between the numbers: between seven and 10 However, we use the word to when there is no between: seven to 10 So, for example, if I eat one or two apples a da...

Damkerng T.

10:37

Hmm... I think I haven't seen Araucaria a few days already.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Me too.

Damkerng T.

0

Q: She watches movies ...... at the theatre ..... every Sunday?

She watches movies ...... the theatre ..... every Sunday? Ans: She watches movies at the theatre every Sunday. My approach: I write this sentence as: She watches movies at the theatre on every Sunday. I made this because "at" is used to denote a person here for the short period ...

prepositions british-english

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Actually, one of the candidates in chem's election disappeared after they didn't prosper in the election. :\

Damkerng T.

That question is relatively easy, but the list of upstairs, ..., upside could make another adverb vs. preposition debate.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Soooooooooooooooooooooooooo

Damkerng T.

10:40

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Oh, no! I think it's not like that in our Araucaria's case.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Should my next post be on meta.chem or meta.ELL? Hmm

Meta.chem it is.

Damkerng T.

Heh!

Damkerng T.

11:31

0

Q: Is the second sentence grammatically correct?

Advertisements inform people about the products on the market. We do not always know what products are there available.

grammar

Let it be known...

> We do not always know what products are there available.

is a sentence used in a course or a test somewhere around this time.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:05

0

Q: What should we do better? Feedback please!

Chemistry is an awesome site with an awesome community. I don't see any hostility in comments. I don't see any unjustified close votes. We have a bunch of awesome editors. Our edits are almost always substantial. We tend to sound welcoming to new users, sometimes even when they're dumping homew...

discussion

That's meta.chem's turn.

Damkerng T.

Yay!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Upcoming meta: Flag FAQ on meta.chem

Upcoming meta: Let's kill grammar ~~ians~~ on meta.ELL

Hmm, should we have a flag FAQ here too @Dam?

> How/When should I flag a comment/answer/question?

Damkerng T.

Not sure. Do we already have that in our Help Center?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Help center is only useful for toddlers.

tchrist

12:18

1

Q: Let’s choose more informative tags than “grammar” whenever possible

I have a general proposal that I would like the community here to discuss in answers to this posting, and if there is consensus agreement, to please help out with what is proposed. Why gramática Is Not a Helpful Tag Today I went through questions tagged gramática and where possible, replaced th...

discussion tags retagging

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@tchrist PT.SE is so young and cute, I wanna hug it and not let go!

tchrist

You can actually go through all the grammar questions there and fix them.

Well, probably.

On ELU, it is very difficult.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

On ELL, it is very difficult.

Waiting for replies on meta is booooooooooooooring.

tchrist

Tell me about it.

I still have to translate the post for ELU.

And then, again, wait.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Waits

tchrist

12:45

Must. Not. Complain.

Must. Not. Emit. Catty. Remarks.

Give if a few seconds, and I bet you’ll be saying these very same things.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Must. Complain.

Must. Emit. Catty. Remarks.

@tchrist Not in the same resolution, but yeah, I did.

tchrist

I don't think saying anything is going to help anything in this case.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@tchrist I need you to fight . . . I mean speak gently to @Stoney about a title ban or warning. Whoever won will get one grand as the prize.

1

A: What 'buzzwords' should we ban or give a warning about in question titles?

I'm in entire sympathy with the effort to create useful titles. I agree that these words raise a red flag, and are very often signs of a useless title. But I don't think that we can actually ban them from titles. Occasionally one of these words is vital to the substance of a question: “This” "...

tchrist

This worries me:

0

Q: Is British English unwelcome on ELU for some people?

This is a genuine question, asked in a spirit of enquiry. I don't want to start a row - simply to ask for people's thoughts. Background I and some other Brits on ELU have noticed that a minority of US English speakers appear not to value our variety of the language and, as a result not value ou...

discussion

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

"I don't want to start a row." isn't a sentence that appears in every question.

tchrist

12:59

It seems doomed to fail.

StoneyB

Hi, guys ... somebody here wanna knock the chip off?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I feel sleepy.

tchrist

@StoneyB Your shoulders?

StoneyB

Well, MAR seems to be spoiling for a fight between you and me!

tchrist

Not likely to happen.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

13:03

:'(

StoneyB

Didn't think so; but I didn't wanna let the kid down, either.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@StoneyB Well @TCh and I are pro ban/warning.

I feel too sleepy to positively and actively participate.

tchrist

I support a ban on "grammatically" and on "correct". But I don't know that it would help promote better questions without a popup.

StoneyB

<shrug>I've explained why I don't think a ban will work. Feel free to compose a warning, if you think visitors will a) read it, b) understand it, c) follow it, d) follow it competently.

tchrist

People ignore warnings. I dunno.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

13:08

Well many drivers still park when they shouldn't.

When we give 'em a sign, they have no excuses.

Besides @Stoney I don't think many people are going to heed to title FAQ after it gets out of the featured bulletin.

ELL has a tendency of neglecting meta decisions.

StoneyB

Well, that's cause Meta is neither decisive nor authoritative. :(

Look, I think you've done a very valuable thing in calling our attention to title deficiencies. There's a few hundred fewer bad titles; I'm making an effort I've never made before to fix the titles on questions I answer, and I don't think I'm alone; and I'm seeing an actual effect on users' behavior: for instance, more questions are coming in with "acceptable" instead of "grammatical".

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@StoneyB My efforts would've been in vain if it weren't for your efforts.

StoneyB

13:23

But you're trying to legislate a very subtle standard: one that involves not just simple rules but actually thinking about the difference between a title and a question and plucking the heart out of the question's mystery. That sort of approach was hard to teach when folks were still writing slowly with feathers, stopping every two words to dip and every ten words to sharpen. There's no such pause on a keyboard, and thought goes against the very grain of the internet.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hmm.

StoneyB

You're asking people to become writers instead of speakers. They don't know how . . .

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yeah, what we prolly should look for isn't correcting askers, but correcting the behavior of people in our site.

ELL has a BIG lack of editors.

tchrist

Yes.

And every question needs editing. Almost.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hmm.

StoneyB

13:38

Too many qq, too little time. Every question adequately edited means an answer not written. And we're falling way behind the curve on answers. There was a time when the unanswered queue routinely stood between 10 and 20 - now it's over 500.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

We still have more than 95% answered ratio.

That's something to worry for later.

Damkerng T.

I think I've seen a few questions today (or maybe yesterday) that could be closed, but they're from new users.

tchrist

17:12

0

A: Globalisation encourage economic cooperation among/between nations?

Here’s an easy solution: Try Always Using Between If you always use between, then you will never run the risk of using among when you need to use between. I know it sounds silly, but nobody will think twice if you use between all the time, but they will think twice if you use among all the t...

Unfortunately, tests are not looking for right answers. They’re only looking that you give the answer they want you to give.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Precisely.

And somehow people didn't understand my meta request for feedback.

tchrist

0

Q: She is rather good. Is it right sentence?

She is rather good. Is it correct sentence? I am confused here. How to correct this sentence?

sentences

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Ah come on! I have enough things to ruin my day with.

tchrist

17:39

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M You could fix all the grammar tags. But should you decline that task, think of how much time you’ll have left!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@tchrist I should instead ask on meta so that J.R. would synonymize grammar with correct.

tchrist

Pretty sure it should be incorrect.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

correct

tchrist

Start here. Thanks and good luck.

Four thousand three hundred seventy grammar tags on the wall,
    Four thousand three hundred seventy grammar tags,
    Take one down, pass it around,
Four thousand three hundred sixty-nine grammar tags on the wall.

2

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

o>

tchrist

17:48

It is a long tale of which the end is not known, and there are none now who remember it aright as it was told of old.

tchrist

18:03

I’ve set the fox amidst the hens:

0

A: How should I make a ( double) negative sentence using " could have pp"?

“I went to the picnic yesterday.” “You didn’t! How could you have done that? You really shouldn’t’ve!” “What do you mean by shouldn’t’ve?” “I mean you should have not gone.” “Impossible! I could not have not gone.”

Take that, grammar tag!

I bet Asian learners don’t know they oughtta be using shouldna.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M What is like being a sixteen-year-old Persian boy today?

Is it like the world is waiting for you, or is it more like it is holding you back?

Damkerng T.

@tchrist Your answer is great! I wonder if she could crack your hints, though.

tchrist

I thought a conversational example would be the most illustrative mechanism.

You have not answered the request to show her how to make a double negative out of this. I think you should not have not answered. :) — tchrist 1 min ago

Damkerng T.

18:23

waiting for the reply... :P

tchrist

> John Lawler likes to cite Horn’s Law: Horn’s rule is Simplex Negatio Negat; Duplex Negatio Affirmat; Triplex Negatio Confundit. Single negative negates; double negative affirms; triple negative confuses.

Just one more negation needed to confound them all and in the confusion blind them.

Damkerng T.

Hahaha!

tchrist

I cheated: I asked the OED for verbs ending in -ind for ideas.

> † aˈblind [v.]
abscind [v.]
† aˈfind [v.]
† aˈswind [v.]
† aˈtwind [v.]
back-wind [v.]
† beˈblind [v.]
† beˈfind [v.]
† beˈwind [v.]
bind [v.]
blind [v.]
blind-man-buff [v.]
blind(-)side [v.]
blind stitch [v.] ← blind
† comˈbind [v.]
† confind [v.]
† deˈbind [v.]
† debt-bind [v.]
† diˈffind [v.]
† disˈbind [v.]
† diˈscind [v.]
dry-grind [v.] ← dry
embind [v.]
† emˈblind [v.]
† enˈmind [v.]
enwind [v.]
exscind [v.]
fact-find [v.] ← fact
find [v.]
flatter-blind [v.]
† forˈbind [v.]
† foreˈmind [v.]

Well, that matched the regex ind\b actually.

Blind just came up early, and fit.

And yes, I see dead words. It’s a sixth sense of mine. :)

Damkerng T.

That was one of the most shocking moments in movies I've ever seen.

tchrist

Worse than The Crying Game even.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:35

@tchrist Having to study what is not real lessons for what is not a real exam for two years and worrying about the same stupid exam called 'konkur', while I'm swearing at anything I find in the proximity of 2 miles, including the ministry of education, and while I'm dealing with stubborn teachers who haven't understood what they're teaching, even though they're supposed to be the best high school teachers my country can offer.

tchrist

Surely thus has it ever been, for all of us, anywhen you please.

Are these exams critical for entrance into certain intended paths?

Demian

Demian: The Story of Emil Sinclair's Youth is a Bildungsroman by Hermann Hesse, first published in 1919; a prologue was added in 1960. Demian was first published under the pseudonym "Emil Sinclair", the name of the narrator of the story, but Hesse was later revealed to be the author. == Plot summary == Emil Sinclair is a young boy raised in a middle class home, amidst what is described as a Scheinwelt, a play on words that means "world of light" as well as "world of illusion". Emil's entire existence can be summarized as a struggle between two worlds: the show world of illusion (related to the...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@tchrist What is a word for when I'm looking for a word higher than critical and staring at my laptop's screen and eating some peaches at the same time, while trying to keep my keyboard from getting dirty?

Life is cruel, what can I say?

tchrist

Imprescindible.

Indispensable.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Konkur, to answer your question, is basically the foundation of the decision of where I'm going to in the next stage of my life.

tchrist

2 mins ago, by tchrist

Demian

Demian: The Story of Emil Sinclair's Youth is a Bildungsroman by Hermann Hesse, first published in 1919; a prologue was added in 1960. Demian was first published under the pseudonym "Emil Sinclair", the name of the narrator of the story, but Hesse was later revealed to be the author. == Plot summary == Emil Sinclair is a young boy raised in a middle class home, amidst what is described as a Scheinwelt, a play on words that means "world of light" as well as "world of illusion". Emil's entire existence can be summarized as a struggle between two worlds: the show world of illusion (related to the...

The cruel demands of civil service exams at that time really damaged him.

I hope they do not do this to you.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:45

Thanks, I guess. :)

tchrist

> Hesse attended Rector Otto Bauer's Latin School in Göppingen from 1890-1891 to prepare for the notorious Swabian state examination which was a prerequisite for attending the four exclusive protestant church schools of Württemberg. Hesse passed the examination and began his studies in Maulbronn in the fall.

> Although Hesse seemed fairly satisfied with his classes, the teachers, and the students, his stay at Maulbronn was brief and ended unhappily. Hesse ran away for twenty three hours, on March 7, 1892, and following this escapade began to suffer from headaches and insomnia.

They had horrible tests that were the only gateway to certain futures.

But yours, I take it, are not dreadfully hard so much as they are dreadfully stupid. Is that it?

What the hell? They still do this!

Staatsexamen

The Staatsexamen (State Examination or Exam by State) is a German government licensing examination that future physicians, teachers, pharmacists, food chemists, psychotherapists and jurists (i.e., lawyers, judges, public prosecutors, civil-law notaries) as well as Surveyors have to pass to be allowed to work in their profession. The examination is generally organized by government examination agencies which are under the authority of the responsible ministry. These agencies create examination commissions which consist of members of the examination agency, university professors and/or representatives...

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's not that bad.

It's just not real science.

tchrist

They were called Landsexamen in Hesse’s day.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's a craving for marks and grades.

tchrist

"A crave"?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:50

I'm distracted.

tchrist

Let me try again.

Is it you who are craving this, or them that require it of you, or both or neither or something else?

In what domain are these exams?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

This is one big "university entrance" exam.

But it's gotten way big.

tchrist

I see, that’s what I was worried about.

I guess people study for those here, too, although I never did.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

They tried to get rid of it, but they're too stupid to propose some useful alternative.

tchrist

This whole affair of college entrance exams has seen controversy here that you may have heard of.

"SAT controversy"

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

18:54

Yeah I've heard.

tchrist

Some schools have stopped paying attention to those, but if the school you wish to attend still does so, what can you do, you know.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

The key to all of the better-than-scratch universities here is konkur. The better your result is, the better is the university you're going to attend.

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