ELL's Cabin

Araucaria

16:00

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M It's the context that makes it acceptable or not, not the person!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Arau BTW, you can reply to chat messages; and in computers (not SE mobile) it's way easier.

@Araucaria Like this.

Damkerng T.

Who owns the car? Who will perform the borrowing? And who will get hold of the car temporarily?

Let's try a similar example, but with names:

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. You always need a good reason to choose a more convoluted information packaging scenario.

Damkerng T.

> a) John borrowed Mary a car.

> b) Mary was borrowed a car by John.

Araucaria

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M How do you do that?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:02

@Araucaria Hover over the chat message with a mouse. On the right, there are three icons: Flag, Star and Reply.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Like I said you'd need a good reason. I don't see the need for the long passive there. They're always awkward. Drop the "by John" and it'll improve massively!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Click Reply.

Damkerng T.

> c) Mary was borrowed a car.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Yes. Tha'll work.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Something in the form of :1234567 will appear, and then you can type your text easily.

Damkerng T.

16:03

Same questions:

2 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

Who owns the car? Who will perform the borrowing? And who will get hold of the car temporarily?

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. One of the motivations for using a passive is when you don't want to say who did the action.

Catija

@DamkerngT. To me, this means the same as "John borrowed a car for Mary."

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria You can use "someone", or "John", or "Mary" as an answer.

@Catija In all three versions?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

0

Q: Grammar question for proper sentence

Does the sentence below use proper grammar? Also, let me know what time would be best to give you a call.

grammar

cv-pls-proofreading

Catija

@DamkerngT. This would make more sense as "A car was borrowed for Mary by John"... this version doesn't make much sense to me as written.

Damkerng T.

16:05

@Catija How about c)?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Egg-sac-ly.

Catija

@DamkerngT. B and C as written don't make much sense to me... I don't know that a native speaker would use them. for C, it would be the same as the previous one, but you drop "by John"... "A car was borrowed for Mary".

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Paste our template asking for specific concerns!

Hmm... I guess c) is marginal.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

K.

Catija

I mean, they make sense... in as much as I get what you're saying, but that's not how I would arrange them, personally.

Damkerng T.

16:07

nods

Let's say that in I'll fix you the car and I'll fix you a meal, one is grammatical and the other isn't. Do we have a similar pair for borrow?

In any case, the generalization of Benefactive construction given by John Lawler is definitely interesting! (Thanks @Araucaria!)

Catija

@DamkerngT. Not sure.

Damkerng T.

I may be strange, but I'm not sure I get him right:

> I'll fix the car for you. (Note -- you don't wind up with the car)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Welcome to our community! To keep the quality of the questions high, we do not answer proofreading requests. Unfortunately, the way your question is currently formatted, raises the alarms of being such question. To make it on-topic, you need to tell us what confuses you. For more info, please see Alternative websites for proofreading and Details, please!. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 17 secs ago

Damkerng T.

But if someone fixed a car for me, wouldn't I end up having the car back with me?

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yay!

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. They would take it away from you first! The action of fixing isn't done with the aim of getting something to you.

Damkerng T.

16:15

Frankly, both fixes don't seem much different to me. This is hard.

How about? I'll fix the computer for you. --> I'll fix you the computer.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You'll fix me?

Damkerng T.

I think He's fixing me my English is grammatical and is good English.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm not sure.

Damkerng T.

According to the answer by JL.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. You don't get something that you didn't already have when I fix your computer for you. But look, if I arrange for my company to give you a computer by pulling some strings I can fix you a computer. You get a computer that you did not have before!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:18

Japanese Longman?

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. No way. That fixing me my English is no good :(

@DamkerngT. Maybe ask a question here on ELL.

Damkerng T.

I think I almost get it. JL's explanation is good for native speakers, but probably not enough for learners.

So, it's not only about "winding up with" the object, but the first condition is I mustn't have it in the first place.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BTW not-so-breaking news: Mrt got suspended for that CV spree.

Guyses this is making me sad.

Damkerng T.

Oh! I didn't know that he was still keeping doing it!

Catija

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Oh, really? Hmmm. Interesting.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:21

Why are ELLers writing so poor question titles?

The best they get to is "Haha" vs. "Hehe".

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Ahh... I think I've mentioned that before... -- sad

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. So has @snail.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. @d Exactly so

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria Yay!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Araucaria Aha!

Araucaria

16:23

Also that must be the purpose of doing the verby thing in the first place

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Now you'd see how easier replying is.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... that would make it impossible to have a similar pair to I'll fix you the car/I'll fix you a meal with borrow, because any borrowing would fulfill both conditions.

If it is so, why the pattern [Someone else] borrowed me something is so rare in COCA.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Though in chat, when you don't wanna reply, you can type "@d" and press tab. Then it would turn into "@DamkerngT.". But I rather type "@Dam" @Arau.

Damkerng T.

checking Google Ngram...

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. The problem with borrow is that it has the meaning of take. If you lend me something you can't borrow me it, just because you aren't initially taking it from anyone ...

Damkerng T.

16:26

Hmm... I think according to the pattern discussed by JL, [Someone else] borrowed me something would always mean that that someone else borrowed something for me. There shouldn't be a problem, I think.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. ...if it was yours to begin with. But if you borrow it from someone else with a view to giving it to me, then you can borrow me it!

@DamkerngT. @ Yes that's right

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

5

Q: When I was in trouble he borrowed me money. When I was in trouble he lent me money

When I was in trouble he borrowed me money. When I was in trouble he lent me money. What is the difference between them? Which one is correct?

verb sentences word-difference confusable

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria Yes, that's what I meant. And that's what I wonder why it's so rare in the corpus.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Another case of dodgy answers that aren't really answers.

Sheesh.

Damkerng T.

On hold!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:28

(Except @Arau's, which is why I voted to reopen)

Araucaria

Thanks!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Actually, I voted "leave closed" in the review queue first. Runs

– =͟͟͞͞ =͟͟͞͞ ﾍ( ´Д`)ﾉ

OK guys now can we discuss some meta?

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. Well some of those verb things are idiomatic. "Borrow someone something" isn't exactly a collocation, where as "fix someone a meal" is!

Damkerng T.

So this book is bad?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

3

Q: Downvote delay: a reputation loop?

Here is a theoretical sequence of events. Which one is incorrect? A user with about 80 rep finds an answer which is wrong. It might do damage to someone following its advice, etc. and is generally a good candidate for a downvote (and comment). The user clicks downvote, once or more times (d...

discussion reputation voting down-votes privileges

Damkerng T.

16:31

> books.google.com/books?id=Oly8DcdONDcC&pg=PA153

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M JL = John Lawler, a frequent contributor to ELU

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It must be FLAWLESS.

Damkerng T.

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. You can make up sentences like that that have never been said before. For example, if you were looking for a quote, I could say something like "hold on a sec and I'll Google you one", for example.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat I know.

Damkerng T.

16:33

Hmm... the author might be thinking of a specific context, with from, not for.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Guyses I wanna write a meta post: How to write better titles.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. learnyouahaskell.com

Damkerng T.

Hmm... Learn me a Haskell!

Anonymous

Deliberately ungrammatical, although some people do non-standardly use learn kind of like that :-)

Anonymous

Not exactly like that.

Damkerng T.

16:38

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Write You a Better Title!

Araucaria

@DamkerngT. OR "Write yourself a better title"!

Anonymous

Oh, what have I done? :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Hehe!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

The problems are:

Should I do this after the election?

How to make sure I'm writing something comprehensive?

GUYS!

Anonymous

Yeah, so, what I was thinking is: Some people do use learn to mean 'teach', although it's considered non-standard. But even so, I'd still expect the reflexive form (teach yourself, not teach you).

Anonymous

16:41

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Doesn't matter whether you do it before or after

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Kill you mosquitoes!

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I crossed my fingers for you.

Wait, I crossed you my fingers.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M You could go through a lot of ELL titles and take some notes―what are the problems that you find? Which of these problems are most common or, um, most problematic?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Some people think/may think I'm doing an election campaign thingy.

:(

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Doesn't matter. Just do whatever you want to do.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:42

Which would defeat its purpose.

Anonymous

Your post will still be there after the election.

Anonymous

If you want to wait, feel free to do that, too.

Anonymous

It's only a few days. The world won't end if you wait to post it.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Ah, Feynman's famous quote?

@snailboat Maybe writing a good answer will take some days.

Anonymous

The and Feynman's are both determiners, and you can only use one. Let's get rid of ~~the~~

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:44

Right.

Damkerng T.

> The Store Manager borrowed me his managerial uniform, because my Supervisor had not ordered uniforms for regular employees.

I think that's dialectal.

Anonymous

Ah, you edited it :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Everything is dialectal.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M In the sense that it's different from standard English, whatever standard English is.

Anonymous

It's true that every utterance, in a sense, belongs to a dialect. If we say it's "standard", we're saying it belongs to the dialect that is perceived as standard in the relevant context.

Anonymous

16:46

But we probably know what "that's dialectal" means here anyway :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. In that case, you can say it's non-standard. Which I would agree with.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Language is a never-ending sea. You can't just draw some lines and say "whatever crosses this line is non-standard."

But yeah, this is obviously nonstandard.

Damkerng T.

> I went downtown and borrowed me an accordion.

Anonymous

That's like "I'm gonna go and eat me a pie!"

Damkerng T.

It's really hard to find "X borrowed me Y" in the meaning of "X borrowed Y for me" in Google Books.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:49

@Dam™, pushing the limits of grammaticality since 1888 B.C.

Damkerng T.

BC!

Anonymous

Wow, there are only two Google results for "eat me a pie".

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

DE!

Damkerng T.

I wonder whether that's older than the Great Wall.

@snailboat But they're there!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Prolly not.

Catija

16:50

@DamkerngT. Yeah, that's very colloquial and usually comes from people I expect to have a strong southern accent and not much between the ears.

Anonymous

Well, being attested in Google doesn't mean that something is a real thing said by native speakers :-)

Araucaria

@snailboat This question needs a reopen vote (read comments for why ....) Can you have a look?

Damkerng T.

Oh, that's true. And probably its opposite too.

Anonymous

Yeah, sure, one sec.

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria None of StoneyB's choices work as a duplicate?

Hmm... they are questions, not answers.

Araucaria

16:52

@DamkerngT. No, I think that's why he didn't vote to close in the end ...

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Okay, I voted to reopen!

Araucaria

@snailboat Thanks. Thumbs up

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Now @Arau's all like (づ｡◕‿‿◕｡)づ.

Damkerng T.

I remember I saw a good and should be related post by StoneyB recently... Let's me have a look at those choices for a moment.

I give up! It's not easy to find a specific answer of his!

Voted!

^Hehe! I typed 'Let's me' :P

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

16:58

I me you me using me a lot.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. "Let's me" is rather weird, but you might find people saying "Let's you and me"

Anonymous

That's colloquial, mainly spoken English

Damkerng T.

@snailboat It was decisively a typo. :D

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M That one's cute :-)

Damkerng T.

I wonder how soon English will accept suggest him that.

Anonymous

17:11

@DamkerngT. Well, it might not ever.

Anonymous

But it's true that non-native English can influence standard English over time.

Anonymous

I think suggest him that might be acceptable in Indian English.

Damkerng T.

Borrow him this and suggest him that are pretty similar.

Anonymous

What do you intend when you write that?

Anonymous

Do you mean a following clause marked by that, or do you mean to use that as a pronoun?

Damkerng T.

17:14

I used that as a placeholder of a thing.

Probably not a very good idea. :D

Anonymous

It's not always a good idea to use an unstressed pronoun as a replacement for a noun phrase―consider "I turned on the light". You can't represent this generically as "I turned on it/that."

Damkerng T.

I was thinking of something like...

"He suggested (that) we have dinner first, and then watch the movie."
"He suggested us that?"

Anonymous

Maybe you could write suggest him NP or something :-) Where NP is a placeholder for a noun phrase.

Anonymous

Oh.

Anonymous

Okay.

Anonymous

17:17

This isn't really a lot like borrow him this.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Or this (hacked from Macmillan's example)

> *The report suggested us various ways in which the service could be improved.

> *If there is a mechanical problem, we suggest her contacting the manufacturer directly.

Anonymous

With !borrow him NP, we have the conceptually/syntactically very close lend him NP. (Here, I've used the exclamation point '!' to mark the former as non-standard.)

Anonymous

We don't really have any source for an analogical formation with suggest.

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria linked us to english.stackexchange.com/questions/90530/…

Anonymous

We do have the frame suggest + him + -ing clause, but it's associated with another meaning already.

Anonymous

17:21

どれどれ・・・

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Do you remember when we discussed the dative alternation?

Damkerng T.

> I'll send the answer to him. --> I'll send him the answer.
I'll fix a meal for you. --> I'll fix you a meal.

Anonymous

I don't say things like "undergo Dative", by the way, because I don't believe that we transform sentences like that.

Damkerng T.

Hmm...

I think Araucaria suggested that:

> He borrowed some money for me. --> He borrowed me some money.

And all that makes me think that it's quite similar in the case of suggest.

Anonymous

Verbs that participate in the dative alternation: give-type verbs (give, hand, lend, loan, rent, sell, ...), send-type verbs (send, mail, ship, ...), and throw-type verbs (fling, flip, kick, lob, slap, shoot, throw, toss, ...)

3

Damkerng T.

17:25

> He suggested an idea to us. --> He suggested us an idea.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Damkerng T.

I remember the first one in Captain America!

Anonymous

Suggest doesn't fit into any of those semantic groups, and doesn't have the associated syntax.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat But borrow does?

Huh? I think those verb types look familiar!

Anonymous

No.

Anonymous

17:28

Borrow does not participate in the dative alternation. That is to say, "I borrowed him a book" and "I borrowed a book to him" are not in alternation.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

Although the former is used non-standardly to mean "I loaned him a book", as far as I'm aware the latter is not used to mean "I loaned a book to him".

Anonymous

I could be wrong. If you find an attestation, let me know :-)

Damkerng T.

4

A: When I was in trouble he borrowed me money. When I was in trouble he lent me money

Meaning These two verbs lend and borrow often cause confusion for learners. The main reason is that many languages use just one verb for both of these meanings The verb lend is like the verb give. It means to give temporarily, not permanently. The verb borrow is more like the verb take. If you...

@snailboat I think it's coming soon (as the second installment). :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

1124

Q: Warlords of Documentation: A Proposed Expansion of Stack Overflow

It’s been 7 years and 10,000,000+ Questions since Stack Overflow was launched. The amount of good that has been done for the field - all the developers helped, all the person-hours saved, all the beginners who grew into professionals - is hard to overstate. I cannot express how proud I am of what...

discussion featured documentation

Wow they have big thoughts for SO.

Damkerng T.

17:32

Wait, 1124 up-votes!

And in just a few days at that!

Ahh... those villains are from that post.

Nathan Tuggy

@DamkerngT. It's already the third-highest post of all time on MSO.

Damkerng T.

@NathanTuggy I think it may not stop at only 1124!

Nathan Tuggy

Probably not, no!

Damkerng T.

Well, it's 1125 now. :P

Jude Niroshan

Good Evening everyone!

Damkerng T.

17:41

Evening!

Jude Niroshan

Setting up your background to weekend trolls ?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... actually, he has a point...

"borrow, lend" in the search field gives 9 results. And research in online dictionaries should make the difference between the two verbs clear. — rogermue 57 mins ago

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hullo!

@JudeNiroshan They seemed to have slowed down.

@DamkerngT. Hehe I saw what you did there.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Happens to me all the time!

I want to click the time, but I click the name. I want to click the name, but I click the time.

That's me.

Hello, @Chenmunka!

Chenmunka

Hello

The weekend at last!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:44

Hullo!

Damkerng T.

At last! :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Actually, my weekend is getting over.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Aww

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What a boooring weekend. I want schooldays back! Cough

Anonymous

17:56

@DamkerngT. That's the benefactive alternation, not the dative alternation :-)

Anonymous

Maybe to be clear I should start saying the from-alternation and the to-alternation.

Anonymous

But then, to-alternation could mean "He helped me (to) cross the street". Oh no!

Damkerng T.

Ahh... I think I misunderstood the terms.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BTW who changed the room topic?

Anonymous

Me.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:59

It's . . . lamer.

Oh whoops.

Anonymous

Doesn't matter.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Sorry!

user116848

hi

Anonymous

No need to apologize!

Anonymous

I'll explain why I did it.

Anonymous

17:59

People keep thinking Language Overflow is the main room.

Anonymous

People need to be able to find this room when they're looking for the main ELL chat.

Anonymous

room topic changed to ELL's Cabin: This is the main chat room for English Language Learners Stack Exchange. Welcome! (no tags)

Anonymous

I wanted to avoid that confusion.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That makes sense.

Anonymous

I just expanded the acronym because someone found their way here recently and couldn't figure out what "ELL" was.

Anonymous

18:01

Now hopefully people will be less confused :-)

Anonymous

You're one of the room owners. You can change the room topic if you like.

Anonymous

I just thought I'd explain why I chose the topic I did. ("This is a chat room." wasn't very helpful.)

Anonymous

My goal, unfortunately, was not to be unlame. Just helpful, if I could be. :-)

Anonymous

@Araucaria Are you sure that borrow is used non-standardly with the same grammar and meaning as lend? With lend, we have "I lent him a pen" and "I lent a pen to him" in alternation, but with non-standard borrow meaning 'lend', we have "I borrowed him a pen" but not "I borrowed a pen to him"―or do we have the latter as well, and I'm unaware?

Damkerng T.

I found this some while ago:

in Language Overflow, 18 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

Growing up in Alabama I occasionally heard "Can you borrow me the loan of" -! — StoneyB Oct 9 '14 at 22:25

Chenmunka

18:05

I've never come across "I borrowed a pen to him"

Damkerng T.

@Chenmunka How about "I borrowed him a pen."?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Oh! I like that. Loan is practically a light noun there :-)

Chenmunka

Yes, you hear that from time to time

Anonymous

@Chenmunka Yeah, I haven't either. At least, not that I can remember.

Chenmunka

You don't hear "I borrowed him a pen" all that often but you do come across it.

Damkerng T.

18:07

nods

Anonymous

People who say it are looked down on, so they're trained out of saying it.

Chenmunka

I come across confusion between imply and infer much more often.

Anonymous

Although some people do say it.

tchrist

> He says, "Son can you play me a memory
I'm not really sure how it goes
But it's sad and it's sweet
And I knew it complete
When I wore a younger man's clothes."

Sing us a song you're the piano man
Sing us a song tonight
Well we're all in the mood for a melody
And you've got us feeling alright

Anonymous

"Light nouns" in Japanese: repository.dl.itc.u-tokyo.ac.jp/dspace/bitstream/2261/54900/1/…

Damkerng T.

18:13

> And the microphone smells like a beer

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It shouldn't. It should smell like chocolate.

user116848

"Piano Man"

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

19:22

@DamkerngT. Sir okay yes sir Mr.Damking sir.

Damkerng T.

Heh! -- Just Damkerng is all right.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes sir.

@Dam sir sir sir sir sir I'm gonna use this screenshot is my title FAQ thingy.

Damkerng T.

Haha!

tchrist

@TRomano The word sailing is a noun in sailing skies, because it is skies made for sailing not skies which are sailing. That’s why sailing is here a noun not an adjective. See my answer. — tchrist 1 min ago

I don't know why people get this wrong so often.

Suggestions welcome.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hmm,

It does somehow look like the definitions of oxidizer, oxidant, oxidation, oxide and their reduction versions. :P

Sometimes it's 'cause the teaching ain't good.

@Maulik I'm so sad that I couldn't make use of your company. We have so much to talk about . . .

tchrist

19:41

I realize now that I blurred something I should not have. Sigh.

An -ing word that is a deverbal noun no longer accepts verb things, but a gerund does.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oh?

tchrist

> Telling mom is a bad idea.

That's a gerund.

And it took a complement.

> Building relationships is hard.

That one is ambiguous.

Well, no.

> Building relationships are hard.

That’s how you distinguish.

The second has relationships of buildings.

The key point is that sometimes these are nouns, not adjectives.

Catija

I'm not sure what a "building relationship" is...

tchrist

Well, it wasn't a good example.

Running water versus running shoes is pretty good though.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But I understood.

tchrist

19:49

A building relationship is a building’s relationship. Perhaps.

Xufox

20:03

Why is spell-check in Firefox marking “nothing’s” or “nothing's” (different apostrophe) as wrong? It’s supposed to mean “nothing is”, but the above two are still correct, right?

tchrist

Can't tell.

What is your sentence?

It cannot be the last word as a contraction, only as a possessive.

Araucaria

@snailboat I'm not sure, I'm not a "native speaker" of thos dialects, but I think so. This is what I found on Google. But as you know, that doesn't mean very much! There's definitely lot's of examples there:

Catija

Doesn't get marked for me... but it could be that it doesn't like your apostrophe... nothing's changed. nothing’s nothing's ... even when I paste your versions, it's fine.

@tchrist Nah. "Nothing's changed" means "nothing has changed". Regardless, spell-check in FF is A - faulty and B - not a grammar checker.

Araucaria

@snailboat ... for example: I have a neighbor that on occasion will borrow things but they always come back in better shape than they left, loaned him the lawn mower when his broke down, came back with a full tank of gas, when I borrowed it to him with half a tank. I also often borrow him one of my trailers to haul junk to the junkyard, it's usually pretty full of junk for the junkyard when I loan it to him, but he puts a few things on top then takes the whole load to the junkyard.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

> You can use blockquotes. They're better to illustrate examples.

> I have a neighbor that on occasion will borrow things but they always come back in better shape than they left, loaned him the lawn mower when his broke down, came back with a full tank of gas, when I borrowed it to him with half a tank. I also often borrow him one of my trailers to haul junk to the junkyard, it's usually pretty full of junk for the junkyard when I loan it to him, but he puts a few things on top then takes the whole load to the junkyard.

Xufox

20:08

@Catija Pasting sometimes doesn’t immediately trigger spell-check. Anyway, that’s right, Firefox doesn’t check for grammar. My sentence was “[blah, blah, something about an empty sub-menu]; at least nothing’s shown under it.”

Catija

@Xufox True, but I pasted it and then continued to type. What build/version of FF are you using?

I'm using 40.0.3 for Mac OSX if you care.

Xufox

Firefox 39. Yeah, when I pasted it, it also immediately marked those two instances of “nothing’s”. To be sure, you could disable and re-enable spell-check.

Catija

@Xufox Maybe you should update? It's possible they've updated their dictionary in the new version. Regardless, I wouldn't take it as too serious. The dictionary is missing a ton of words. I usually google a word if it marks it as misspelled and half the time it's fine... that's more difficult to do with a contraction but not impossible. Also, it could be the regionality (marked as misspelled) of the system. I'm set up for American English. Perhaps it's less acceptable in other regions?

Xufox

Maybe it validates 's and ’s so that the preceding word is a noun… “something’s” and “anything’s” are also marked… but they are correct, right?

Catija

@Xufox No clue. I don't even know how people get those odd apostrophes, to be honest. I just use the default one on my keyboard.

@Xufox Yeah, "something's up" can mean "something is up" and "anything's possible" is "anything is possible".

They are pretty informal, though... probably wouldn't use them in an essay or something like that.

Xufox

20:18

@Catija I also check with American English. The apostrophe doesn’t matter, it’s handled the same way. Well… on Ubuntu, I get it with [Alt Gr]+[Shift]+[N]. Anyway, I wish I could update, but before that I have to update Ubuntu… and that’s a bit too risky and time-consuming for me at the moment.

Catija

@Xufox Ah, makes sense.

tchrist

@Catija SHIFT-ALT-]

@Catija Nothing’s ready.

You’ll find there’s nothing wrong with this sentence: Nothing’s wrong.

Catija

@tchrist But that's still a contraction of "nothing is"... The post I was replying to made it sound like you were saying that they were possessives.

tchrist

No.

I meant that you cannot use the contraction at the end of the sentence, only the possessive.

Catija

@tchrist Oh. Sure.

tchrist

20:27

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

Catija

No worries. :D

Catija

21:11

0

Q: How to politely say "I don't want to work for someone from XY country"?

A good client of mine has offered me a job. The company that needs my services comes from the country which is on my list "will never work for them again, no matter what". Now, how shall I decline this in polite English without being an ass, chauvinist, racist, and so on? I have been hurt very...

politeness

Araucaria

@snail I think Dam's getting "Dative alternation" (a term I, erm, have no faith in) from JL's post (scroll up somewhere here if you want to see it). But JL uses the term for verbs that take for PPs as well as to PPs. So, for example, "I bought a book for him" --> "I bought him a book" or "I'll fix a meal for you" --> "I'll fix you a meal".

Catija

Anyone think this may be better on workplace? I haven't commented on it yet because I'm not certain. It seems to be asking for a way to discuss things politely, which may even be addressed there already. His English seems fine, so it seems more like a etiquette issue.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Catija Recommend workplace, see what happens.

Catija

21:27

Wanted to share with you all an answer from Meta about the Beta logo on ELL:

I know that next week is the week this is supposed to happen but do you have any info for us about when/whether the "beta" part of the logo is going to be dropped or if design-independent sites will get a different design than the currently-beta sites? If you like, I'm happy to address this in a question, not certain if it's been addressed yet, though. — Catija yesterday

Hey @Catija the "beta" label will be dropped on newly graduated sites, specifically, after their election has wrapped up. We are not currently slated to give newly graduated sites an interim design because it would have caused delays in getting this thing underway, but I feel it may be a good future adjustment. If you a) think there's widespread confusion about when/whether the "beta" label is being dropped or b) would like to add another voice in support of an interim design, I encourage you to ask a new question. — Ana ♦ 8 mins ago

Nathan Tuggy

Interim! Interim all the things!

Catija

@NathanTuggy You think I should ask a question? Honestly, I don't know that it'd be that difficult to make the site green instead of blue, for example. :P

Nathan Tuggy

I think Jin has higher standards than that. ;)

But yes, ask.

Catija

@NathanTuggy I'm sort of afraid of asking and getting a ton of downvotes, though there seems to be a good amount of support for it, in general... so I'll have to ask it in a way that seems like I'm not asking for too much.

Nathan Tuggy

@Catija I don't know why you'd get any downvotes. It's almost certainly a good thing to have eventually; the main question is how high a priority it is.

Catija

21:35

@NathanTuggy True.

Catija

22:03

1

Q: Give Graduated sites waiting on a custom design something to set themselves apart from Beta sites

I'm really excited that Beta sites waiting on site design are finally getting many of the graduation privileges without having to wait for a fully custom design. For simplicity, I'll be referring to the graduated sites without custom site designs as "interim" sites. If someone else has a better t...

discussion feature-request design graduating-sites

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