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Anonymous
00:05
Younger speakers use the language in interesting ways: "What the actual/literal/absolute fuck?" This fits the general trend of using words that refer to truth/reality/completeness (very, real, really, actual, actually, true, truly, literal, literally; total, totally, complete, completely, absolute, absolutely etc.) as intensifiers
Anonymous
I'm not used to these expressions in my age group, although I don't know if that's because of the sorts of people I know rather than their age
Anonymous
It sounds very amusing to me :-)
04:43
what does "Boiling Frog" metaphor means? When do we use it? example situation please? @snailboat @JimReynolds
Anonymous
04:56
The boiling frog is an anecdote describing a frog slowly being boiled alive. The premise is that if a frog is placed in boiling water, it will jump out, but if it is placed in cold water that is slowly heated, it will not perceive the danger and will be cooked to death. The story is often used as a metaphor for the inability or unwillingness of people to react to threats that occur gradually, such as creeping state surveillance. According to contemporary biologists, the premise of the story is false: a frog submerged and gradually heated will jump out. However, some 19th-century experiments suggested...
yeap. i read it. But what is most suitable situation to use it ?
can you give me an example?
05:35
Can i ask a suggestion here?
Hi. Sure.
Anonymous
I don't use the boiling frog metaphor (both because I love frogs and because it doesn't make sense), so I don't really want to come up with an example . . . but you should be able to understand it if someone else uses it.
I'm asking a job possition. Can i ask like this and do you think the grammer is correct?
--
I'm glad to hear from you. I would be very interested in getting IT position in your office If there is any job opening. I'm eager to relocate and motivated to take a new challenges.
--
You need an before IT position
Anonymous
05:39
@Achu ① Position is a count noun here, so you need an article (an IT position); ② You can't capitalize if in the middle of a sentence.
Anonymous
③ I would say "if there are any openings available" or something similar.
And a period after office.
Anonymous
(Note to self: plan out your lists ahead of time so you can put semicolons in the right places next time :-)
Anonymous
new challenges is plural, so you can't use the singular determiner a with it.
Anonymous
@JimReynolds That would make "If there is any job opening" an incomplete sentence.
05:40
Oh. I'm wrong. Like snailboat said. No capital for if.
Anonymous
We don't want that, so instead of adding a period, let's make if lowercase :-)
wow thanks! thats a big lesson
Anonymous
You can post stuff like this on Lang-8 and get proofreading there.
Anonymous
By the way, job opening is okay, but it's actually a little redundant. That's why I just said any openings available instead of any job openings available.
So can i make it like this:

I'm glad to hear from you. If there any openings available, I would be very interested in getting an IT position in your office. I'm eager to relocate and motivated to take new challenges.
Anonymous
05:44
You can't put a space before a period in English.
Anonymous
Also:
Anonymous
4 mins ago, by snailboat
new challenges is plural, so you can't use the singular determiner a with it.
Anonymous
> a new challenge   ← OK
> new challenges  ← OK
> a new challenges ← Bad
How about now?
06:14
@sna @dam snailboat was saying that here is is special.
Anonymous
06:35
@JimReynolds Hehe! Well.
Anonymous
I guess it's also special in a way in translations like that :-)
Anonymous
此處為三西B號楼梯 cǐ​chù wéi sān xī B hào lóu​tī
Anonymous
處 and 號 are different in Japanese . . . they're 処 and 号
Anonymous
Oops, I forgot to type 'B'! :-)
I can recognize only the character for 3, and only the Pinyin for 3 and floor.
Pathetic.
Anonymous
06:59
> Both didn't go in, only one of them did.
Both went in, but both didn't come out.
That's a little story about a cat and a mouse.
14 hours ago, by Damkerng T.
I think if they wanted to use reputation as a unit, it should be in the plural (reputations) in that sentence.
Anonymous
My precious, precious reputations!
Anonymous
I hope everyone knows that when I say stuff like that, I'm being silly :-)
Anonymous
suddenly feels guilty
Ha. Actually we do have multiple reputatio s.
Mi e with you may include o e for omitti g 's.
07:05
@snailboat @JimReynolds Hi!
Will you use the verb "deboard" or "deboarded"?
Nanak told Mail Today that after sensing that it was a terror attack he drove the bus towards Gurdaspur and then parked the vehicle at a safe place and let the passengers de-board the bus.
Thanks.
Anonymous
Are you writing a news story, or are you talking to a friend?
Anonymous
In normal conversation, people say "get off the bus"
Anonymous
I think deboard is actually pretty rare even in formal contexts . . .
07:09
It's a small part of an article from Daily Mail.
Hmm. For more formal writing, my first thought is that disembark may be more common.
Anonymous
Are you asking me whether I think the Daily Mail has made a mistake, or whether you can use the verb deboard freely in your own speech or writing?
But My concern is the editor should have used the verb "deboarded" as he talked about the past incident.
"let the passengers de-board the bus"
Anonymous
No, the finite verb is let and deboard is a bare infinitival complement
Okay.
Anonymous
07:12
Let someone + <infinitive>
Anonymous
Make someone + <infinitive>
Anonymous
"I made him get off the bus." (Not: ×"I made him got off the bus.")
I made him understood?
Does this sentence sound fine?
Anonymous
I made him understand.
Anonymous
You need the bare infinitive form of the verb.
07:13
I understood.
Anonymous
Most verbs that take infinitive complements take to-infinitives: "I told him to eat a hamburger."
Anonymous
But a few verbs take "bare infinitives", with no to
Anonymous
"I let/made/helped him eat a hamburger."
Anonymous
Help is a special verb that works both ways:
I need to study this point on the internet. I appreciate your help and time guys!
Anonymous
07:14
> I helped an old lady cross the road.
Anonymous
> I helped an old lady to cross the road.
Anonymous
Since they're infinitives, they never become the past tense form.
Anonymous
Let is one of the few verbs that take bare infinitives as complements like this. The reason it's special is because of let.
@snailboat Thanks.
I helped both old ladies not cross the road.
By breaking their kneecaps.
Anonymous
07:17
@JimReynolds What a cad!
There went one of my reputations. At least.
Anonymous
@JimReynolds Notably, both old ladies is not in the scope of the negation.
I got too excited by the thought of maim and mayhem.
Anonymous
It's okay. Memorable examples are, well, memorable.
Anonymous
Might as well make sentences fun. :-)
07:34
Both old ladies didn't make it across the street with intact kneecaps.
Both old ladies made it across the street, but not with intact kneecaps.
Anonymous
Oh, my stomach hates me so much today.
Anonymous
Hey, @JimReynolds, what do you think of this question?
Anonymous
5
Q: past simple or present in that case

user5577I am going on holidays in two days for two weeks, but before going I would like to see my friend: shall I say It would be nice to see you before I leave. It would be nice to see you before I left. I think the second one is better, as it is not a real situation but a wish.

Anonymous
Not like, "What is the correct answer", but what is your personal feeling from intuition about it?
Oh, I'm a guinea pig, am I? The water's getting warm. But it feels fine so far.
Oh yeah. Intuitively, I think left is ungrammatical.
But I didn't read CGEL yet.
Anonymous
07:43
Hey, I say what my intuition tells me all the time. Sometimes my intuition isn't an exact match for the whole of Standard English. That's okay―we all have our own personal copies of English, always different from everyone else's in the details.
Anonymous
What we decide is Standard out of that mess, with speakers all speaking differently, is kind of complicated :-)
Anonymous
No water is being heated :-)
Right, which may be why the example I really wanted to give wasn't published.
Anonymous
Also, I love frogs. I used to have a pet frog.
Anonymous
Frogs are adorable.
07:45
"Hey, dude, both of us dain't deservin' your taint."
From a rejected manuscript of mine.
Shakes fist at Simon and Schuster.
Anonymous
Anonymous
This is a cute frog from the internet, not my pet frog :-)
Yes. Very cute.
Deadly poisonous to touch, perhaps!
:D
Anonymous
Oh, does the little guy look aposematic to you?
I think that the one answer clicks with me intuitively:
No I didn't say he needs an inhaler!!
Anonymous
07:47
They actually aren't poisonous :-)
Anonymous
For another species commonly known as the red-eyed tree frog, see Litoria chloris The red-eyed tree frog (Agalychnis callidryas) is an arboreal hylid native to Neotropical rainforests where it ranges from Mexico, through Central America, to Colombia. It is sometimes kept in captivity. The scientific name of red-eyed tree frog, Agalychnis callidryas, comes from Greek words kallos (beautiful) and Dryas (a tree or wood nymph). As its name suggests, the red-eyed tree frog has red eyes with vertically narrowed pupils. It has a vibrant green body with yellow and blue vertically striped sides. Its webbed...
Oops. I tried to avoid assigning him or her a gender at first.
You led me astray with "guy".
Shakes fist at snailboat.
Anonymous
It's okay, frogs are pretty low on the animacy hierarchy. Speakers are allowed to use sloppy gender reference with them.
The one reply that says because the leaving is planned or arranged, not remote, hypothetical, counterfactual, etc.
Anonymous
In fact, lots of people say it!
07:49
I don't like it for animals.
Anonymous
I make up genders for my pet snails because calling them her or him instead of it raises them up the animacy hierarchy, which reflects my empathy for them as pets.
Yes. As does your taking them to the movies with you.
0.O
Anonymous
Whenever I take a snail and show it to someone, they always react poorly.
Anonymous
I don't know why.
Anonymous
Poor snails. They can't see movies very well.
Anonymous
07:50
They can see well enough to tell which direction is probably brighter, though :-)
Poor snails are nowhere near where they belong on the adorableness scale.
Anonymous
Anonymous
Anonymous
I think they're cute! :-)
I can see cuteness in them, for sure.
But I did perhaps need a little assistance from you, upon our meeting, to prod me to look at them afresh.
Anonymous
07:55
I love animals. Not just snails.
Anonymous
I never studied biology as much as I wanted to, though, because I couldn't handle dissection.
I vividly remember when I first saw you show a pic of one of your pets and introduce him or her by name. I could feel your enthusiasm / excitement.
Anonymous
Yay!
It is a great thing to feel for things
Painful, marvelous.
It's funny. Actually, I caught myself having this thought less than an hour ago. One of my dogs was drinking water enthusiastically, and I said, "Pullo, you feel happy, huh?"
And he wagged his tail, which I could see was kind of tricky to do while we was still lapping up water.
My thought was that I felt a sense of happiness very deeply, and what I actually said to myself was that I hope I could remember this very moment in some future time when I feel badly about things, or even when I'm dying if I had a chance to reflect back on my life. O.O
2
Q: Present Continuous vs.Present Simple (Passive Voice)

user11470When one uses a verb in the passive voice in the present simple, does a statement always mean regular actions, but not a particular time or a situation? Professional liability of a specialist is [being] insured with a certain insurance company for one year. The meaning is that the liabilit...

I see that I forgot to answer his specific questions there.
I'm now reading and enjoying: Should I use the present continuous with a passive form to mean that the status (being insured) is currently permanent, but will change later?
What is the rule for temporary permanence??!!!
@sna Also, has anyone said that your avatar, when small, can appear to be a person, perhaps a little girl . . . a person's face looking at us from the lower right quadrant, while the rest of the image mostly comprises her large, soft, pink, knitted baby hat?
O.O
 
1 hour later…
09:20
@JimReynolds O.O
Since when did you become a poet?
@DamkerngT. It's really broad.
His biggest problem is trying to connect the "Persian clause system" to English.
Wrong. Blatantly. Outrageously!
I see.
In Persian, we don't have relative clauses, we have sentences.
> I eat lunch.
That's a perfectly grammatical standalone sentence, both in Persian & English.
> I'm so happy ke I eat lunch.
If I'm not mistaken, that's a subordinate clause in English.
Oh, @snail is here. \o[Pure~English]{@snail}
But in Persian, it's categorized as a sentence.
Just that, they call it a "dependent sentence".
I dunno if Ahmad knows any of that.
I usually think of this pattern as so ... (that).
Anonymous
We don't have a tag for postpositive adjectives and I can't make one from my phone
Well, L1 to L2 transition is going to be problematic in the long run. Even though all of the languages ultimately end up being of the same root, the later revisions to them has made them very diverse; so that even the most basic sentence constructions tend to differ. Ke is like that in some ways, yet the way English treats clauses is so different from Persian, it's just wrong to try and compare them together. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 26 secs ago
Anonymous
09:32
Persian is usually analyzed as having relative clauses
@snailboat Are they edible?
@snailboat But they're just not called clauses. That's the point.
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I start to wonder, if ke means "and".
(and sometimes "and it")
Anonymous
You might not call them clauses, but I think most linguists would.
Anonymous
Though there are some linguists who use sentence and clause as synonyms.
@DamkerngT. No, va means "and". As he has diagnosed correctly, ke can be most closely translated to that.
But translation doesn't prove the grammar is the same.
09:34
nods
@snailboat I'll ask Dr. Khakpour.
Anonymous
I'm sure the grammar is very different.
Anonymous
But yeah, clauses.
He's a guy in the Kung Fu class, and he has an MA in linguistics.
Of course, Persian.
Anonymous
I'm not sure what theoretical distinction you hope to make by calling them sentences rather than clauses
09:35
Oh crud, I lost track of time!
@snailboat Good question.
I'm not fully sure.
Anonymous
But if you don't know what that distinction is, you have no need to argue that they're not clauses
THEY'RE NOT CLAUSES. THEY'RE NOT CLAUSES..
See? The mob's with me.
Just in case, I'm not leaving guys, but I'm writing my homework; so I may not respond to your messages.
Anonymous
But plenty of linguists do call them clauses, so you'll have to present some sort of argument if you want me to listen
@snailboat Huh, I guess they call them so.
But again, the system is way different than English.
Anonymous
09:44
I'm sure it is. They tend to vary a lot across languages.
Anonymous
For example, Japanese has no relative words of any kind.
Persian has something else, which I typically translated to clause. That's why I'm messed up.
> Hey!
> Persian RCs are unbounded dependency constructions, all containing the invariant complementizer 'ke'. They also have gaps or resumptive pronouns (RPs), licensed by a higher structure.
That's very relevant!
Anonymous
Many languages, like Persian or French, standardly use resumptive pronouns which would be nonstandard in English
Is a . . . I dunno, clause? Semi-sentence? Quasi-sentence?
Or for example
> @Dam king!
Is this grammar thingy.
Quasi-sentence would be the literal translation.
Anonymous
09:46
Clauses vary a lot across languages.
@snailboat Not sure if that's a clause actually. Is it called something special in English?
Anonymous
Give me an English example.
Anonymous
That's an utterance. It consists of an interjection. It doesn't have the form of any of the major clause types.
> You idiot! That's not what the handle does.
Anonymous
09:48
It could be called a minor sentence.
Huh, minor sentence . . .
explodes
Anonymous
I'm still awake because my stomach hates me.
I dunno if I'm awake or not.
@snailboat Eat some ice cream.
That's the answer to all "life" problems.
Anonymous
Are you trying to make me die of explosion?
Like a TNT or what?
That would be cool.
Anonymous
09:50
Yeah.
Grabs popcorn
Anonymous
Ice cream would murder me.
Hey, I remember you liked Fatijas.
@snailboat Oh it's a "killer"!
Anonymous
My stomach doesn't know how to digest it. Well, my body doesn't.
Seriously though, have you taken any pills?
Anonymous
09:51
No
Hyosin-N-butyl-Bromide? Whatever it's called over there?
Anonymous
I don't know, you can look it up more easily than I can right now
Its side effects are so trivial, it's what I have when I have an stomachache.
@Mr. twister or run and running. I don't know how to explain this precisely, but you may think of load, talk, run as an act, an instance of such activity, usually a complete act, and think of loading, talking, running as the activity itself, a concept of such activity, an abstract idea of such activity. — Damkerng T. 13 secs ago
What a surprise! It's called Hyosin-N-butyl bromide in the US.
09:54
I don't know how to explain that any better.
Now I have to talk @Dam into finding its colloquial name for me.
@snailboat Aww
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M tonic?
Huh?
Well, I've figured, we call it hyoscine here, and you call it hyoscine there too.
I think hyoscine wouldn't be colloquial for most people.
Anonymous
I've never heard of it.
09:58
Disclaimer: My mom and dad are both pharmacists; and I've grown up in a pharmacy since I was 6. So I'm just saying that I may be familiar with more drugs.
I suppose you would.
Anonymous
Could be.
So, I really can't decide if you guys know a drug's name or not.
Anonymous
Well, I know a good number of them. Quite possibly not the same ones you do.
If it's ™ names, then I wouldn't know 'em. Gimme IUPAC name, and I ring like a bell.
Ahmad the closest translation to ke in Persian is that in English. However, that by no means means their grammar is the same. Like I said, it's really good if you don't try to connect Persian and English grammar while learning. It's gonna make you prone to lots of errors in your English, which would typically be valid grammatical constructions in Persian. — inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M 11 secs ago
Anonymous
10:04
It is very often counterproductive to try to apply the grammar of one language to another. Grammar is always different, even in similar languages.
Funny that formal Thai and formal English are very similar. :P
Anonymous
Sometimes it can be helpful, though, to say: what's the same and what's not the same?
I suppose that they're similar "by design".
Anonymous
By focusing on the differences, you avoid accidentally using L1 grammar in your L2
@snailboat IMO that's good after learning, not during.
10:06
nods -- I think Swan even wrote a book about those differences once.
Anonymous
English that and the English relative words have so many rules that are specific to English and unlike other languages that I worry about any attempt to compare them…
They don't have a clear (read: 50%) idea of English clauses, so distinguishing the difference is gonna be hard for them.
Anonymous
Yay
Is ke Arabic or Persian?
Anonymous
10:09
Japanese is a fun example. Relative clauses in Japanese are so extremely unlike those of English
For instance, I'm something like 60% fluent, thus, I can visualize the difference, while you guys can see 'em.
@DamkerngT. Persian.
@DamkerngT. Note that this is a handbook for teachers, not students.
So it subtly indicates my point.
Anonymous
There are no relative words at all, no pied piping, there are resumptive pronouns and gapless relatives, relative clauses come before their head nouns, and there are also some head-internal relative clauses
Anonymous
Plus, relative clauses are basically identical in form to sentences, apart from main clause phenomena
Anonymous
In fact, it's very difficult to say whether an adjective before a noun is actually a relative clause in Japanese
@snailboat That's a feeling I sometimes have while reading Japanese!
Anonymous
10:12
Learning English relative clauses must suck :-)
Anonymous
Also, almost any argument can be omitted in Japanese at any time, including in a relative construction, so relatives can be more ambiguous in Japanese
Anonymous
In 紹介した人, is the person the one who did the introducing, the one who someone was introduced to, or was someone introduced to them? Could be any of those…
Anonymous
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M You might be interested in the more general term relative construction
Anonymous
That term doesn't specify "clause"
Oh, according to Swan (on the pages I can see, none of which unfortunately is about relative clause), Farsi verb inflection indicates the agent. So Farsi speakers may produce: *\It becomes built (for It is built.)
Anonymous
> translit.: Sadhaa saal ast ke mardome Farsizabaan hamvare divane Haafez raa mikhaanand va az aan lezzat mibarand va in iaadegaare geraanbaghaaie lesanalgheib raa aziz va geraami mishemaarand.
> word-by-word: Hundreds year is that people Farsi language always anthology Hafez read and from that enjoy and this heritage precious fortune teller love and respect ...
> idiomatic: For hundreds of year Farsi speakers have enjoyed reading Hafez's anthology, respecting and loving the precious heritage of this 'fortune teller' ...
ke --> "that" --> poof!
@DamkerngT. ast = it's*/*is
Here it should be it's.
28 Sep!
10:29
@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M @DamkerngT. @snailboat Hi!
I need your help to get the answer.
B. Martha missed her dog (1)/ who died of a (2)1 skin infection at a (3)/ very young age. (4)/ No error (5)
Was the answer 2 or 5?
I chose number 2 but it shows number 1.
Oh! Hmm...
10:33
How?
What was the topic of the test?
Any idea?
We need to find the error in the sentence.
Anonymous
Maybe they want a comma.
@snailboat Okay.
Great point!
10:34
It could be the reason.
Anonymous
It's hard to say for sure what the test makers want.
@snailboat @DamkerngT. Thank you so much. See you around.
Anonymous
See you!
@snailboat Sometimes they tell the students what they want, sometimes they don't.
See you! @user62015
Anonymous
I guess so!
10:38
I don't like the way some tests format this kind of question in one single line.
But it's probably the best way to copy-and-paste or save the questions in a text file.
Not sure if most tests associate this kind of sentence correction questions with reading or writing skills.
Maybe just the grammar skill.
10
Q: What do native speakers think of word roots?

Yummy SushiAs the number of English vocabularies required by my English literature teacher is increasing, I am now confronting a great problem memorizing them in a short time. Simple words are okay to me, but it's especially difficult when I come across words with crazy suffixes and prefixes or with tricky ...

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M It was a great success!
Anonymous
I thought about quoting a reference about first language acquisition in the comments thread but then I was lazy
Ahh
Terr isn't a root word, it's an coincidental grouping of letters. Terra has a completely different etymological root than terror and terrific, which share the same root and originally had related meanings. — Kevin Krumwiede 5 hours ago
Hehe!
I guess that confirms that root words and etymology don't really matter at all for native speakers. :P
 
1 hour later…
11:57
@snailboat "Luckily, Japanese doesn't have anything like backshift". How about this? counterfactuality Japanese
@DamkerngT. Will have a think about that and pop back later ... Am teaching in a sec ...

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