ELL's Cabin

Jim Reynolds

09:27

Hi @Dam and all

Jude Niroshan

11:27

good evening everyone!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

o/ @Jude @Jim!

Jude Niroshan

Ohh... i see, you see totally unique now ^_^

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I was unique!

Jude Niroshan

Why was ?

i'd say, it is

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Nah I mean, I didn't need to be a mirror me to be unique.

Jude Niroshan

11:35

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M opps! i forgot. Happy Ramadan to you! I believe you are celebrating

Damkerng T.

@JimReynolds Hi!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@JudeNiroshan More like, happy Fetr!

Ramadan is officially over.

@DamkerngT. o/

jimsug

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M @ jim pings me as well :L

Jude Niroshan

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M meh..

Damkerng T.

o/ guys!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

11:37

@jimsug You're special.

Jude Niroshan

11:58

"The present system uses a very basic excel sheets, the decision for appraisal of approving leaves not well planned." is this correct?
leaves = sick, annual or casual leaves

Damkerng T.

a and sheets don't go well together.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Also, unless you're giving a creepy computer error message, the decision. . . has to have a verb.

jimsug

*don't go together

Damkerng T.

the decision for ~~appraisal of~~ approving leaves is not well planned, perhaps?

jimsug

I would tend to say leave rather than leaves

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:02

I don't think that's a big problem.

jimsug

I don't think I've ever seen it as **sick, annual or casual leaves**

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Maybe a matter of style.

Damkerng T.

@jimsug Maybe don't go together well flows better?

jimsug

"The present system uses very basic excel sheets, the decision for appraisal of approving leave not well planned."

"The present system uses a very basic excel sheet, the decision for appraisal of approving leave not well planned."

Either/or

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

What?

jimsug

12:04

And yeah, I'm going to _insist_* on _**leave**_ because _leaves_ sounds weird.
* idk why and I guess you don't need to listen to me.

Damkerng T.

Better break it into two sentences, imho.

jimsug

@DamkerngT. I'm pretty sure a very basic excel sheets is not grammatical at all.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. I was thinking of a semicolon.

jimsug

It could only work if the item was referred to in the singular as Sheets

like Google Sheets, for instance.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I don't think that would work, the second part is not a finite clause.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I was thinking the second part is better of with a verb, and a semicolon.

jimsug

12:05

We're all reading it as The decision for appraisal of approving leave is not well planned.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Rather than being a clause.

jimsug

Ugh, this is where my linguistics training gets in the way

Jude Niroshan

"The present system uses a very basic excel sheet, the decision for appraisal of approving leaves are not well planned." Ok?

jimsug

In the field I'm trained in, the clause is the highest unit of written language.

@JudeNiroshan That's okay, yeah.

Jude Niroshan

Thanks everyone!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:08

@JudeNiroshan No no wait!

Damkerng T.

@JudeNiroshan Better replace that comma with a semicolon.

jimsug

You can't replace it with a semicolon as is.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

How come you're not seeing it guys?!

Damkerng T.

Also is.

jimsug

What follows the comma would not work as a sentence as is.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:08

Bingo!

Jude Niroshan

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M huh?

jimsug

Oh hang on

it's changed.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

> The present system uses a very basic excel sheet, the decision for appraisal of approving leaves ~~are~~ is not well planned.

jimsug

I didn't read the latest one :3 properly

leaves still seems weird, but I will let that slide.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Even better, replace that comma with a period and Capitalize T in the.

jimsug

12:10

Yeah.

Damkerng T.

@jimsug I guess it could work in the context. Not sure.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Well I was to excited to do that.

jimsug

Either works. Use a period, because people don't always know how to use semicolons and might think you're doing it wrong.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's like when you make your teacher's correction of your paper wrong.

Jude Niroshan

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M is this the most perfect one; after all this loooog discussion? ^_^

Damkerng T.

12:12

> The present system uses a very basic excel sheet. The decision for appraisal of approving leaves is not well planned.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@JudeNiroshan No, with the period.

Yeah, @Dam sums it up.

Jude Niroshan

Thanks again!

Damkerng T.

@JudeNiroshan I'll leave it to you to verify whether The decision for appraisal of approving leaves makes sense in your context, BTW.

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. honestly, i copied it from this another source. I don't have a proper idea of this. Never used this phase before o.O

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Liquid phase?

Jude Niroshan

12:15

slideshare.net/smres/human-resource-management-system-hrms

5th slide

Damkerng T.

Somehow Slideshare.net doesn't work on my browser.

And I can't find the sentence in the transcript.

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. give me 10 secs. i'll write that sentence here

Damkerng T.

But here is the transcript of slide #5:

> 5. Existing System The Present system uses a very basic excel sheets, The decision for appraisal of assigning next task are not properly projected. Need for extra effort Data maintenance may not be accurate Longer time to find a suitable employee No facility for employees to know their details Danger of losing files in some cases It is not User Friendly Samaresh Debbarma, MCA – VI, Assam Don Bosco University 28-February-2014

Jude Niroshan

The Present system uses a very basic excel sheets, The decision for appraisal of assigning next task are not properly projected.

Damkerng T.

I imagine that it's written as a bullet list or lists.

And it's probably OCRed, so maybe that "," is actually a ".".

Jude Niroshan

12:19

@DamkerngT. does it something goes continuously with those bullet point facts?

jimsug

@DamkerngT. Maybe. But the capitalisation is wrong, so I wouldn't bet on that.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Bah, are we talking about a ppt?!

Damkerng T.

@jimsug nods

jimsug

Slides.

Same thing.

There's way too much text on that slide.

Whoever has written this is not a native British/American/Australian English speaker.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug Nor a professional ppt'er.

jimsug

12:20

"Professional" ppt'er

:P

Where do I sign up?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

In a Windows, or Mac, or Linux?

Damkerng T.

@JudeNiroshan My point about it being written as a bullet list was about writing in headlinese (i.e. as if each item were a headline).

jimsug

@DamkerngT. This is true. But then, we're concerned with how @JudeNiroshan is going to be using it now.

But in general, yes. That kind of bullet point need not be written in full sentences.

Damkerng T.

nods -- I think it's the best for Jude to not to imitate the presentation.

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. agree with you. But as i'm not a native speaker, i'm learning from these. So, how can i use this into my context?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

12:28

Get rid of the appraisal.

Damkerng T.

You can also try to rephrase your sentence to something safer.

16 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> The present system uses a very basic excel sheet. The decision for appraisal of approving leaves is not well planned.

The present system uses a very basic excel sheet. The decision for leave approval is not well planned.

jimsug

I wonder what happens with nested chat oneboxing?

34 secs ago, by Damkerng T.

16 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> The present system uses a very basic excel sheet. The decision for appraisal of approving leaves is not well planned.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

8 secs ago, by jimsug

34 secs ago, by Damkerng T.

16 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> The present system uses a very basic excel sheet. The decision for appraisal of approving leaves is not well planned.

just now, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

8 secs ago, by jimsug

34 secs ago, by Damkerng T.

16 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> The present system uses a very basic excel sheet. The decision for appraisal of approving leaves is not well planned.

5 secs ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

just now, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

8 secs ago, by jimsug

34 secs ago, by Damkerng T.

16 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> The present system uses a very basic excel sheet. The decision for appraisal of approving leaves is not well planned.

jimsug

Will it nest forever? :P

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

5 secs ago, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

just now, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

8 secs ago, by jimsug

34 secs ago, by Damkerng T.

16 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

> The present system uses a very basic excel sheet. The decision for appraisal of approving leaves is not well planned.

Damkerng T.

12:30

o_o

jimsug

(Sorry for derailing the conversation.)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

5 secs ago, by jimsug

(Sorry for derailing the conversation.)

Jude Niroshan

The present system uses a very basic excel sheet and also decision for leave approval is not well planned.

now?

Damkerng T.

Looks like you need at least the before decision.

still thinking if 'for' is the best preposition... but 'for' should work...

jimsug

The present system uses a very basic excel sheet and leave approval decisions are not well-planned.

Damkerng T.

12:32

Oh, yeah! That eliminates all unsafe parts!

Jude Niroshan

@jimsug sounds better

jimsug

;)

I do what I do.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug Zis cool!

Jude Niroshan

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M now i know :)

Damkerng T.

just spotted 'excel'... wondering if 'Excel' would be better...

Jude Niroshan

12:35

@DamkerngT. eagle eyes!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Even better; Robot analyzers.

Damkerng T.

Nah. I just grabbed something from my fridge. When I came back, I read the last few messages again. That's how I saw it.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

In half? Did you saw it in half?

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I could. I might. But I wouldn't!

jimsug

@DamkerngT. Well. This is interesting. Technically (and I suppose, for the purposes of an ELL chatroom, it is) correct, though I'm starting to wonder whether Excel is common enough that it doesn't need to be capitalised.

Damkerng T.

12:38

@jimsug I wonder that too!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

To the ngram!

Damkerng T.

Hmm... what's that word... when a brand name turns a common word?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

books.google.com/ngrams/…

@DamkerngT. I thought the wordness of excel might interfere; it doesn't.

jimsug

Doesn't it? How can we really know?

Better to use a POS-tagged corpus like COCA or BNC or GloWbE.

You can restrict it to purely nominal uses of the word.

Damkerng T.

Ahh... genericized trademark is the word.

Jude Niroshan

12:59

guys! i have finished my document. How can i show it to you? shall i use hastebin?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Use wastebin.

Jude Niroshan

hastebin.com/yucaqebavi.vbs

user116848

hi

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Enjoying eid? Or meh?

Damkerng T.

I'll refuse to open anything .vbs. :-)

user116848

13:01

Btw Eid Mubarak to all Muslims here!

Jude Niroshan

@Arrowfar hi!

user116848

@JudeNiroshan Hi!

jimsug

I won't, vbs won't run on my machine :P

user116848

Hi @jimsug!

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. shall i paste the content here? about 150 words

Damkerng T.

13:02

@jimsug :-)

jimsug

@Arrowfar Hey :)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Arrowfar Enjoying candy.

o/

Damkerng T.

@JudeNiroshan Here is fine. It's probably easier for everyone.

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. thanks!

Human Resource Management Module

Main Focus:
Main target of this module is to develop an effective and efficient web based “Human Resource Management System” for Cargills Bank PLC.

The present system uses a very basic Excel sheet and leave approval decisions are not well-planned.

Core Functionalities:
 Maintain Employee details in all island wide Cargills bank branches.
 Apply leaves and get them approved by the managers through a systematic approach.
 Maintain updated contact directory of all employees for branch wise; restaurants, cab services, which can be claimed from Cargills Bank.

Damkerng T.

No problem.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

13:03

@Arrowfar Eid mubarak!

That's 150 chars?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M You too!

Jude Niroshan

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M pardon me :D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@JudeNiroshan K what am I supposed to do with this?

Jude Niroshan

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M just a rough look on this context and see whether the readers can easily understand my english. I mean what i'm trying to do in my project.

Damkerng T.

The most obvious error throughout is the subject-verb agreement error.

Jude Niroshan

13:07

@DamkerngT. would you mind to correct me?

Damkerng T.

I'm on iPad, so it's a bit too difficult for me to type anything long.

Jude Niroshan

@DamkerngT. no problem. it's ok.

Damkerng T.

Another common error is the article usage.

Let me give you an example...

jimsug

**Employee** need not be capitalised if it doesn't appear at the beginning of a sentence.
Again, **leaves** feels weird but may not be wrong.
**branch-wise**, unless it's something that has a special meaning here
*Personal information management **to ease the work** of higher level management in Bank*, that middle bit feels weird.
_Allow employees ... **even** for past few months.* Why does this say _even_?

Damkerng T.

> Employee have First name, last name, name with initials,

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

13:11

Also, @Jude core functionalities are supposed to be nouns, not verbs.

I mean, in that kinda bullet, you should use a gerund.

jimsug

What's wrong with my formatting? :(

Jude Niroshan

@jimsug hahah. yes. For a native english speaker like you could easily identify those weird spots. but what are the correct matching?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Maintain Employee details in all island wide Cargills bank branches. -> Maintaining Employee details in all islands. . .

I dunno what the rest means.

Damkerng T.

@jimsug We can't format out multi-line messages.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug Markdown hates you.

jimsug

13:12

Ah.

Damkerng T.

*our

jimsug

@JudeNiroshan to ease the work of is probably better for

I mean, you're not going to have a feature that makes it more difficult for them, right?

;)

@JudeNiroshan As for that even ... You don't need it. Just get rid of it. Unless you meant only.

Jude Niroshan

@jimsug yes. i'm going to help them by providing this new system to their workplace

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I don't even know what @Jim is talking about. Weren't this better if we did it sentence by sentence?

Jude Niroshan

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M nods!

jimsug

13:15

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M There are two people who will be pinged by @jim in here at the moment.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M We've got two Jim's in the same room now. :-)

jimsug

@DamkerngT. Ninja'd ;)

Damkerng T.

;-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug That's my pure intention.

But no, they're not.

There has been a recent change.

SO only one user gets pinged.

jimsug

Really? That's cool.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

13:18

Yeah, now the script finds the first matching person with the ping, and pings them.

If Jimbie says something later than you, writing @Jim will ping him, not you which isn't the case here.

Jude Niroshan

so, i guess now we can focus on those sentences, aren't we?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

No we can't, but go ahead.

jimsug

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M The most recent person, yes?

Damkerng T.

Don't know if it's a better idea, but I think doing it one paragraph at a time is easier to handle for everyone.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@jimsug Yes.

user116848

17:45

Anybody home?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I'm home.

Just came back from writing an answer.

user116848

Where? Chemistry?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

ELL.

user116848

I was writing an answer on ELU main site but got a message that the question has been closed.

user116848

Shucks!

user116848

17:47

I left some comments on the main site though.

user116848

I leave small comments.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That just sucks!

It's frustration rank 2.

user116848

What's rank #1?

user116848

Look what I found:

user116848

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:50

> This post has been edited 1 time since you began. Your current edit will only be saved if it's more substantive than the previous edit.

user116848

I was feeling like that cat a while ago.

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Whoa!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's when you start the edit but someone has submitted one.

user116848

Well, it happens, no biggie I think.

user116848

What's biggie for me is a down vote or a psychotic comment.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

17:52

-1s don't bother me anymore.

ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ

user116848

So "downvote" is not a one word. I got a red line under downvote so I had to type down vote.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Bah, shtoopid spell-checker.

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M They don't? I am surprised.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Or spellchecker.

user116848

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yes it is.

Damkerng T.

17:54

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Looks kinda cute-cool, but still with a bead of sweat. :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

ಠ_ಠ

The best face ever.

user116848

ಠ_ಠ

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

ಠ_ಠ

user116848

I copy pasted yours.

user116848

ಠ_ಠ

user116848

17:55

Ahh, so we can't copy paste again and again in chat.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Yes unless. . .

user116848

It would have been fun.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

ಠ_ಠ

user116848

ಠ_ಠ

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

ಠ_ಠ

user116848

17:56

ಠ_ಠ

user116848

Yes we can :)

user116848

Ctrl+Shift it is.

user116848

I just figured.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Whee!

user116848

Eeee!

user116848

18:00

So I asked around and people in my apartments generally have no trouble with their internet connection. Looks like I am the only one.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

You're special.

user116848

18:15

Someone here (where I live) recently told me not to listen to music.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Why?

user116848

You know it is forbidden for us muslims they say that's why.

user116848

Do you believe it?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

It's not forbidden; it's good to avoid.

user116848

It is 50-50 I guess. Some say it is okay.

user116848

18:18

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Yeah I hear it is good to avoid.

user116848

There are reasons too but I feel kinda awkward sharing them here.

CopperKettle

Good evening!

user116848

Good evening @CopperKettle!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Night!

CopperKettle

Good to avoid any music during the Holy Month?

user116848

18:20

@CopperKettle Good thing you stopped by here. You'll find me here :)

user116848

@CopperKettle Yes it is.

user116848

Well, not just in Ramadan, all the time they say.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I don't believe in that.

They're too careful.

This is close to sufi teachings.

CopperKettle

@Arrowfar Are there many such folks there?

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Did you mean to say Salafi teachings?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

No, sufi.

I don't know the exact spelling.

CopperKettle

18:24

I thought adherents of Sufism enjoyed music. In Chechnya they certainly do.

user116848

@CopperKettle Yes the religious folks are like that. I am a religious person myself but I'm not strict in anything I guess.

user116848

@CopperKettle Yes in Sufism there is some music involved.

CopperKettle

@Arrowfar In everything. (0:

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Bah I don't find the right word.

CopperKettle

Takfiri Salafism?

user116848

18:26

@CopperKettle Um so anything is not correct? :)

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@CopperKettle Nah for God's sake. I wasn't talking about terrorists!!!

CopperKettle

@Arrowfar "I am not strict in anything" seems like "I'm totally a loose cannon"

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M You're getting better at it! :D

user116848

18:27

@CopperKettle Yeah? I see.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@CopperKettle Maybe he should've said not as strict.

user116848

Thanks.

CopperKettle

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Probably (0:

user116848

Yeah okay, I read the sentence again and "everything" looks cool.

user116848

Sufi music

Sufi music is the devotional music of the Sufis, inspired by the works of Sufi poets, like Rumi, Hafiz, Bulleh Shah, Amir Khusrow and Khwaja Ghulam Farid. Qawwali is the most well known form of Sufi music, and is most commonly found in the Sufi culture of the Indian Subcontinent. However, music is also central to the Sema ceremony of the whirling dervishes, which is set to a form of music called Ayin, a vocal and instrumental piece featuring Turkish classical instruments such as the ney (a reed flute). The West African gnawa is another form, and Sufis from Indonesia to Afghanistan to Morocco have...

CopperKettle

18:34

I like this one:

Makhi Madni by Ustad Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan

►

user116848

Yeah he is Pakistani.

user116848

Very well known.

CopperKettle

I forgot the meaning of "Maki Madani"

user116848

Ah, well, I don't listen to such songs.

CopperKettle

But this song is really cool, like Jazz improvisation

user116848

18:36

@CopperKettle Our sacred places in Arabia.

CopperKettle

Ah, Mecca and Medina!

user116848

Yeah.

user116848

Some people here listen to him like crazy.

user116848

I like some his songs as well but i don't remember the names.

CopperKettle

@Arrowfar I aint surprised! But I only loved this song (I listened to half a dozen).. probably because I don't recognize the text

user116848

18:40

I just listened, it is not that bad.

CopperKettle

I've got to go to sleep early in case I go bicycling tomorrow. Goodnight, @Arrowfar!

user116848

@CopperKettle Yes sure. See you later!

CopperKettle

Its 20 minutes to midnight. (;

user116848

Yes it is.

user116848

Same timezone :)

Damkerng T.

18:49

1

Q: Requesting a word for this sentence

I want to write a sentence: I have the right to voice my __ The word I'm looking for to fill the gap means unsatisfaction and resentment/complain but in a more subtle and formal way. I vaguely remember a word starting with the alphabets: disc--, which perhaps would suffice here, but can'...

word-request

In case someone wants to add more guesses.

user116848

19:08

Time for me to go to bed.

user116848

Guys send me lots of pings, I like to read them in my free time. Ciao!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Later!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

19:30

Hullo @Nathan! Welcome to our humble Cabin!

Nathan Tuggy

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hey, thanks for the welcome ;)

Damkerng T.

Hello, @NathanTuggy!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

No probs!

Nathan Tuggy

I'm trying to search for references on the pattern "so [adj] a [noun]", but I can't figure out how to phrase that, and Ngrams is not helpful...

any ideas?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

We sometimes go OT here, but the other room is totally languagy.

@NathanTuggy So_ADJ_a_NOUN?

Damkerng T.

19:32

@NathanTuggy Like, He was so great a man?

Nathan Tuggy

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M You'd think that would work, but it runs into a hard-coded word limit, so you have to trim it to three words, and then it just flops

@DamkerngT. Yup

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Darn.

Nathan Tuggy

@DamkerngT. Or "So great a man was he", or whatever. "It's so common a pattern I should be able to find it easily!"

Damkerng T.

I might've posted an entry from Practical English Usage related to that...

6

A: Usage of indefinite article and too

Your sentence, It was too stupid a question. is a good and correct usage. However, you can rephrase it if you'd like, I thought (that) the question was too stupid. Let's forget the question -- It was too stupid. NOT It was a too stupid question. (Please see an excerpt from a gramm...

> 14 adjectives (3): position after as, how, so, too

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@NathanTuggy Lemme think. . . That wasn't quite the right pattern.

Nathan Tuggy

19:35

@DamkerngT. I think that'll work pretty well, thanks :)

Damkerng T.

You're welcome!

Anonymous

@NathanTuggy Can you give a complete sentence as an example?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

5 mins ago, by Nathan Tuggy

@DamkerngT. Or "So great a man was he", or whatever. "It's so common a pattern I should be able to find it easily!"

Anonymous

The adverb so in phrases like that often co-occurs with a that-clause in a correlative construction

Anonymous

As in that example:

Anonymous

19:39

> It's so common a pattern ~~that~~ I should be able to find it easily!

Anonymous

The so...that correlative construction

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

OK.

Anonymous

I'm not sure what sort of reference you're looking for

Anonymous

You can find examples in corpora: corpus.byu.edu/coca/?c=coca&q=40568246

Nathan Tuggy

@snailboat Mostly trying to demonstrate that "so" in that context is fine and that rephrasing to use "such" instead is completely unnecessary

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

19:44

@NathanTuggy Then COCA works fine!

Nathan Tuggy

@snailboat That's pretty spiff, all right! :)

Anonymous

You can click on the individual examples to see the sentences they appear in. They'll show up at the bottom.

Nathan Tuggy

... relatedly, at least two people have flagged the (wrong) answer that motivated this research as VLQ or NAA -- what's up with that?

Anonymous

I'm sorry, I haven't seen the original question or answer. Could you paste the link again? I missed it.

Nathan Tuggy

@snailboat I didn't actually link it before, but ell.stackexchange.com/questions/62102/such-that-so-that/…

Anonymous

19:47

Oh! I see.

Anonymous

It might've been an automatic VLQ flag by the system because of the answer's low character count.

Anonymous

And then someone reviewing it might have gone on to flag as NAA.

Anonymous

Dunno!

Nathan Tuggy

Yeah, it's odd. I voted Looks OK both times, but it's just ... puzzling.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Bah, technical inaccuracy != NAA.

Anonymous

19:53

I don't think NAA is valid. I do think that if it were scored positively I might downvote it, but I'd rather not pile on downvotes on a negatively scored answer.

Anonymous

But it's not really what NAA and VLQ are for.

Nathan Tuggy

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Exactly!

Anonymous

A good learner's dictionary should also show this word order.

Anonymous

macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/american/so_1

Anonymous

> (followed by an adjective and “a” or “an” and a singular countable noun): ♦ The yard seemed small for so large a house.

Damkerng T.

19:56

I really love this dictionary!

Anonymous

ldoceonline.com/dictionary/so_1

Anonymous

> 18 so great a man/so small a part etc formal
> used to emphasize an adjective, especially when what is being mentioned is surprising or unusual:
> - He had never spoken to so large a crowd before.
> - It was amazing how much they accomplished in so short a time.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

in Language Overflow, yesterday, by inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I hate Macmillan.

Because it's always so right.

@snailboat Now that's one good dictionary.

Damkerng T.

:D

Anonymous

I've settled on Macmillan as my go-to learner's dictionary. I originally started using it because it had IPA and audio for both AmE and BrE pronunciations, which I think is an important feature.

Transcript for