ELL's Cabin

Damkerng T.

06:11

@M.A.Ramezani I think he made a very good point in his question on Meta SE.

@M.A.Ramezani It looks faint on my screen. It looks like two people talking to each other. :-)

What is that compound?

M.A.Ramezani

07:29

O.O

@Dam I got an answer. I need more time to check whether if it's correct.

0

A: Why is "at least" commoner than "at the least" but "at very least" is less common than "at the very least"?

Why is at very least so uncommon compared to at the very least? Because at the very least is valid syntax while at very least is not. Without a definite article, the word very is an adverb that describes additional (positive or negative) magnitude. The word least describes a concept that by ...

o/ @Dam!

Damkerng T.

o/

M.A.Ramezani

\o/

/o/

\o\

Damkerng T.

:-)

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. You sure you wanna know the name?

Damkerng T.

Yep! Why not?

M.A.Ramezani

07:34

OK here goes: I'm now a 2,4,6-triphenyl-2,4,6-trimethyl-1,3,5,2,4,6-trioxatrisilinane.

Try to say it in one breath.

Damkerng T.

I'd rather assimilate it without reading. :P

@M.A.Ramezani Though it's an interesting and fair argument, I doubt whether this part The word least describes a concept that by definition cannot receive additional magnitude (the smallest thing isn't the smallest thing if there is something smaller) is a circular argument, 'cause if that's true, why can we say at least?

M.A.Ramezani

Agreed. I haven't thought thoroughly about that answer yet.

Also I don't think their reasoning for the existence of the works.

Damkerng T.

@stillenat: I'm not sure you can apply "most" to abstract verbs with sense #2 above. I can only think of constructions like "We mostly love weddings" (which I suppose could mean either more than half of us love weddings, or we love more than half of all weddings). But I think you've made a wise decision - omit "the" every time and you shouldn't go far wrong. Some might not be keen on at very most in my final point, but it does validly occur. — FumbleFingers Jun 4 '13 at 15:43

See something in that comment? :-)

agent5566

08:06

hi folks

Man_From_India

hi @agent5566

agent5566

Today i seated in subway wagon and thought about simple thing: to go verb in continious form.

Man_From_India

Yes :) tell more :)

agent5566

I'm trying to construct my thoughts in English, wait a minute pls ;)

It is used to show intesion, for exaple "i'm going to watch TV", right ?

Damkerng T.

08:24

@agent5566 Yes, it is.

By the way, we don't use seat(ed) that way. In your sentence, was would be better; was sitting is also possible.

agent5566

@DamkerngT. thnks! But if i want to say about movement process? It would be in same form? I'm going to the work now

Damkerng T.

@agent5566 Welcome! -- That's fine, too.

But it should be I'm going to work now or I'm going to the/my office now.

Note that the two have quite different meanings.

agent5566

08:45

so, the sentence i'm going to work has two meanings, which depend on context, right?

Damkerng T.

Not that. Sorry! I mean I'm going to work now and I'm going to the/my office now don't mean the same thing.

Let's forget I'm going to the/my office now for now. Maybe I shouldn't have brought it up.

agent5566

what is the difference? how to say about movement process, movement by my legs to the office but with work word ;)

Damkerng T.

The pattern 'be going to + verb' approximately means "about to" or "will definitely".

@agent5566 Okay. That one is a bit different. It's just the plain old simple progressive.

> A: What are you doing?

> B: I'm walking/driving/going (back) to the office.

agent5566

but work can be noun

right? and so why can't i use it in general continious pattern?

Damkerng T.

Work is quite a tricky word. (Almost all simple words are.) It can be a verb, it can be a noun. When work is a noun it usually means a job. You can use it to mean a place where you work, and usually the article will be dropped. So, I'm walking to work is okay.

But! I doubt how often people really say that.

agent5566

08:55

Oh, i've got it

Damkerng T.

(On the other hand, I walk to work every day is perfectly fine and probably common enough.)

Man_From_India

Sorry @agent5566...had to b off...some work...

Good afternoon @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

Good afternoon!

Man_From_India

See u later...work :(

Damkerng T.

Understood!

agent5566

09:01

resume: so, to go verb can be used in general continious pattern for movement process (even in case of legs, but to walk is more natural for legs ;) ), right?

Damkerng T.

That's an unexpected question! But I think yes, you're right. :-)

I mean, the two verbs mean different things.

Off the top of my head, I'd say that go is about movement in general, and walk is, well, walk! :D

agent5566

yeah, and walk is movement too ;)

Damkerng T.

So when we move from one place to another with our legs, both verbs are equally fine. I'm not sure which one is more common, but obviously, when someone says I'm walking [...], he or she must think that what they're doing is walking. :D

agent5566

i see, you have helped me alot

Damkerng T.

No problem!

agent5566

09:10

My issue with work is in russian meaning of it, we can use one word for job, work, office

Damkerng T.

Ahh

job vs. work is a common confusion for most learners, I think.

Note that work is almost always uncountable.

fahdijbeli

morning

Damkerng T.

Morning!

agent5566

Tenses are a big confusion for me, and articles :)

hi @fahdijbeli

Damkerng T.

@agent5566 It's the same for almost every learner, I think: the big four.

(tenses+aspects, modality, articles, prepositions)

agent5566

09:23

But i like fixed word order in sentence, it is one of the key reason that so many people could learn the language. Learning language with flexible word order is mind blowing for english speaker, i think.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... good point.

In my opinion, English is a rather easy language to learn, but very difficult to master.

Like, you can be fluent in English in a few months (let's say that we define "fluent" in such a way that allows that), you can be about 80-90% native-like in a year or two, but it probably takes a lifetime to be 98% or more native-like.

For one thing, most mistakes of the big four I mentioned usually won't cause any confusion.

But to get all of them right at all times is another matter.

agent5566

I think it's almost impossible to get native level in any lang after some age, kid brains absorb lang semantics

Yours captain obvious ;)

Damkerng T.

I think it's a common belief (which I determine to break). -- What does 'Yours captain obvious' mean, btw?

agent5566

recall to captain obvious meme

Damkerng T.

I've heard captain obvious (probably spelled Captain Obvious) before, but never heard it used like this (Yours captain obvious). So I was a little confused.

Maybe Thank you, Captain Obvious! or (Sincerely) Yours, captain obvious?

agent5566

09:39

No, i mean i'm captain

Damkerng T.

Hah! :-)

agent5566

"Yours captain obvious " as in letters

maybe regards more natural in this case

Damkerng T.

Right. I didn't expect you to drop the comma, 'cause you consistently used it up to that point. :D

agent5566

09:53

;)

Crazy Ninja

10:52

hi

anyone here?

Nick

11:07

Hi There.

I'm here :D

This is my first time in this room.

Crazy Ninja

11:55

@Nick Warm welcome to you Nick

Nick

12:15

@CrazyNinja Thank you. Is this the right place to talk about English?

I don't know whether to post my queries on English Learners or the English Language SE site.

Crazy Ninja

@Nick absolutely yes. Even i came here to learn. I have lot to learn.

Damkerng T.

@Nick Welcome to the room!

@Nick You can post on either site, depending on the purpose of your question.

Nick

@CrazyNinja I went to the other room but those guys are very off-topic

Damkerng T.

If it's about how I should say or write this or that, then post it on ELL.

If it's about why English works like this or that or how come a word has its meaning, then post it on ELU.

Nick

So, the other place is more history than subject?

Damkerng T.

12:27

Hmm... I think most of them think of the main site there (ELU) as a more serious site.

But it shouldn't be a problem, at all, if you ask anything in their chat room.

Oh, I see. You meant their chat was off-topic. -- LOL

Nick

@DamkerngT. It's still pretty vague. From what I can infer, I should appraoch you guys when I don't know how to say things properly and those guys when I want to know something about say, poetry and literature.

@DamkerngT. Yeah, they're talking about TV Shows as we speak.

Damkerng T.

@Nick It's vague indeed; because the two sites were once one. :-)

Nick

@DamkerngT. As a rule of thumb here, I'll learn how to use my sword at ELL and I'll sharpen the blade at ELU.

Damkerng T.

You can do that, definitely.

Nick

So, let me introduce myself a bit.

I'm from India but I identify my natural tongue as English because well, that's the language I use to communicate with myself in my head and it's what comes more naturally to me.
Even though it's my more pro efficient language, I'm not sure I have adequate mastery over it.
English is what I grew up hearing, although it's not what I spend the majority of my time speaking these days.
*sigh* I no longer have that luxury.

Damkerng T.

12:36

Well, I've never had that kind of luxury. :-)

I'm from Thailand. You can think of me as a language enthusiast. I'm also a small business owner, who once was a (hell of, or so they say) programmer.

Nick

@DamkerngT. You mean the luxury of not being able to speak in a language you're more fluent in.

Damkerng T.

Ask me how many days I've ever spent in a country where most people speak English as their first language.

Nick

@DamkerngT. If that's rhetorical, then I believe you must understand the difficulty of holding onto a part of you, without losing anything else.

Damkerng T.

I guess so. :-)

So, in many ways, I understand the challenges most learners face.

Nick

@DamkerngT. A language enthusiast. What others do you speak besides Thai? Also, what do you program in?

Damkerng T.

12:46

Speak? I think I can really speak only English besides Thai.

I haven't counted the languages I use. Let's just say, a lot. :-)

Nick

@DamkerngT. Si :D

I wish to be an able writer one day.

Damkerng T.

Thanks to the Internet, now everyone can! :P

But what kind of writing are you thinking about? A novel, perhaps?

Nick

@DamkerngT. No, any writing whatsoever.

I'm a pretty horrible writer and communication is an area I wish to drastically improve upon. I'm in hope that this community (ELL) can help me improve my effectiveness in this regard.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... it looks to me that you can write prose just fine.

What area, specifically? If I may?

Nick

@DamkerngT. I just don't feel like I can get my point across. Every time I formally long paragraphs, they feel wrong somehow.

Damkerng T.

12:54

I see. You're stuck in the high register.

Is that it? (Sorry if I guessed wrong.)

Nick

@DamkerngT. I don't know what that means but yeah, I feel that the way I express myself isn't as good as it can be. I know what this sounds like but this isn't just some insecurity. I really do feel I commit very big mistakes.

Damkerng T.

Hmm... first of all, I think there's nothing wrong with long sentences.

And IMHO, you seem to get your points across well enough.

@Nick A-ha!

Tell me more about the big mistakes you're thinking of.

Nick

@DamkerngT. No, I get them across satisfactorily; not beautifully. I'm very concerned about the fact that I'm intensively wordy and also my lack of knowing proper punctuation makes me nervous at commas and things like that.

I'm not even sure I used the semicolon correctly in the above.

Damkerng T.

looking...

Ahh... A comma would be better there.

Anyway, creative writing is a different beast.

Nick

@DamkerngT. I wouldn't call my concerns as regarding creative writing but expressing things and communicating properly.... without using as many words as I'm using.

Damkerng T.

13:04

But I take it that you think in English, right? (You mentioned that a while ago, I think.)

Nick

@DamkerngT. Yeah but only because it's what I'm most comfortable with. I don't know my parents language as good as them.

Damkerng T.

I see. I remember that I had a similar problem when I started working abroad.

Some people said, "Damkerng, your English is okay, but why do you have to be that wordy?"

Nick

Exactly. I'm very very wordy. When I speak, when I write. I always feel like I'm using too many redudant words that I can cut back on.

Damkerng T.

Well, then, cut them down. :D

Nick

No one realizes the mistakes they make when they're making them do they?

Damkerng T.

13:11

I believe you can do it, probably very easily.

@Nick Yes. Especially in real (or spontaneous) speech.

Nick

@DamkerngT. I think I can too but only with proper guidance. I didn't create language or it's rules. Could you link me to some resources on learning English?

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I don't know if any grammar book will be useful to you considering your skill.

But I can recommend a few books on writing.

Several Short Sentences About Writing

Argh! The one-boxed feature!

Nick

@DamkerngT. I do not formally know grammar.

Damkerng T.

Oh! Hmm...

But your grammar seem to be quite solid. Maybe it's because it's your first language.

As I understand, most native speakers (writers or not) don't know much about grammar of their own language.

Most books I know are for learners.

Most other grammar books I know are for linguists.

M.A.Ramezani

Hullo!

Damkerng T.

13:18

Hallo! (in German)

Oh, this could be a good choice! One moment.

amazon.com/Students-Introduction-English-Grammar-ebook/dp/…

Nick

@DamkerngT. Exactly. The average speaker is least bothered by semantics and the like.

Damkerng T.

I think it aims at undergrads who are native speakers of English.

Nick

@DamkerngT. Do linguists study the history and usage of a language? If so, is ELU for those who are interested in linguistics?

Damkerng T.

@Nick There are some linguists there.

We have a few linguists or linguistic students here on ELL, too, I think.

Nick

@DamkerngT. This book is interesting. I shall look into it.

Damkerng T.

13:24

Another good book came to mind: Artful Sentences.

Nick

@DamkerngT. Mhh, I think I should be looking at those books designed for tests such as TOEFL or the like. Although I'm not sure I'll be writing them, they seem to have these "standards" that I'd like to know about.

I find that there seems to be different kinds of English. Here, in India, we use the language in a much different way than in Europe or America.
I like to think I'm inclined to some kind of neutrality.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. This one is more current than CGEL, a cheaper alternative to CGEL. But it's of small volume compared to CGEL. I think for that it misses out some part.

Damkerng T.

@Nick Oh, you can try to focus on those verbals tests of SAT, ACT, GMAT, GRE, and the like.

@Nick Yes. I bought a high-school grammar book widely used in India because I wanted to know more about Indian English. :-)

@Man_From_India But for native speakers, it should be sufficient, imo.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. nods

@DamkerngT. Which one did you buy?

Damkerng T.

@Man_From_India None. :-)

Or not yet. :D

I bought Artful Sentences: Syntax as Style earlier this year, though.

And a few books by Garner.

Oh, and one by Leech, and one by Huddleston.

Man_From_India

13:33

oh i thought u bought school grammar books used in India :P

Damkerng T.

That, too! :-)

I think I've bought about 10 English books or so this year.

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Leech means...comprehensive grammar of english?

i have that one too :-)

Damkerng T.

Ah, not that one. Meaning and the English Verb.

Man_From_India

ohh so u study a lot about language, that is actually good.

Damkerng T.

nods :D

Man_From_India

13:36

And I read fiction more :-)

Damkerng T.

I bought one novel, too.

Man_From_India

But recently i am reading in a very slow pace...not everyday I read now :-(

Damkerng T.

Believe it or not, its first chapter has only one sentence: F*ck you. (Sorry about the language! It's in the book.)

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Which book? :D

Damkerng T.

A moment...

> amazon.com/Savages-Novel-Don-Winslow-ebook/dp/B003L785PG

Chapter 2

> Pretty much Chon's attitude these days.

> [...]

:D

@Man_From_India Aww...

Man_From_India

13:42

Good...read it :-) tell me how it is after you have finished reading.

Damkerng T.

I will!

Man_From_India

Do u like to read in kindle or any other ebook? Or u like paper book?

Damkerng T.

I don't mind reading on Kindle or paper, but Kindle has one big advantage. I get the book instantly.

Without having to pay any shipping cost, even.

M.A.Ramezani

Sorry guys, I was busy writing an answer and a comment.

The answer:

0

A: 2015 Community Moderator Election Results

I saw myself responsible for thanking our pro tem dudes! They've done a great job! We still have a long way to go, but a large portion of what chem.SE's today is because of the monumental discipline of our previous moderators. $\mathbf{Our~ hats~ are~ off~ to~ you,~ \color{red}{@F'x}, \color{blue...

Damkerng T.

Hey, tell me about the trick you used to make the last line that small!

M.A.Ramezani

13:46

My comment:

Damkerng T.

If I'm not mistaken, <font> doesn't work on SE.

M.A.Ramezani

Ahem, I'm a humble guy with a PhD in lolic chemistry. — M.A.Ramezani 20 mins ago

@DamkerngT. Easy. <sub>

Damkerng T.

I use <sub> every once in a while, but it never gets to the size that small!

Man_From_India

@DamkerngT. Right, even I use...not that small.

M.A.Ramezani

Triple <sub>.

Damkerng T.

13:47

Hah! It's nestable?!

Good to know. Good to know. :-)

Man_From_India

Even I didn't have any idea. but why not :D

good one!

Damkerng T.

Thanks for the trick!

So Manish is one of the mods there now.

M.A.Ramezani

He was.

He is.

He will be.

Damkerng T.

Ahh

(I remember him from the winterbash before the last.)

M.A.Ramezani

Oh?

What do you remember?

Damkerng T.

13:51

He got one of the secret hats before everyone else.

And maybe he was the winner. (Not sure)

M.A.Ramezani

He was a meta.SE guy.

Damkerng T.

(Correction: He got most of the secret hats before everyone else. :-)

M.A.Ramezani

He left there due to lack of time.

Damkerng T.

I see.

M.A.Ramezani

0

Q: Reading Comprehension question -

The standard methods of science proceed from observations to hypotheses to testing these hypotheses in controlled experiments. However, it would be a mistake to suppose that every hypothesis that comes out of observation lends itself to rigorous scientific scrutiny. There are, in fact, many q...

O.o

Manish? MANISH?!

Damkerng T.

14:02

Another Manish, probably?

M.A.Ramezani

o/ @Fenil! Welcome to the SE chatrooms!

@DamkerngT. Hey BTW, do you have autoreviewcomments?

Damkerng T.

What is that?!

M.A.Ramezani

Do you have anything from StackApps?

Damkerng T.

Oh, no. I don't use any SE apps.

M.A.Ramezani

Not SE apps, anything from StackApps.

Man_From_India

14:04

@M.A.Ramezani I do use Stack App on my phone...

M.A.Ramezani

Hah!

Man_From_India

Sorry SE apps I use

M.A.Ramezani

So @Man @Dam meet

280

Q: AutoReviewComments - Pro-forma comments for SE

No more re-typing the same comments over and over! This script adds a little 'auto' link next to all comments boxes. When you click the link, you see a popup with 6 configurable auto-comments (canned responses), which you can easily click to insert. This script was inspired by answers to thi...

script comments

2

Damkerng T.

Ahh... That's a good idea. I know I could use some stock comments.

Oh, it's available as a userscript too.

M.A.Ramezani

Well, just search that SE. there are a bunch of useful things you can use with SE sites.

Hmm$\ldots$ Currently I run two scripts: Favorites enhancer and AutoReviewComments.

Damkerng T.

14:09

The last time I used Greasemonkey was maybe 4-5 years ago.

M.A.Ramezani

SE additional optional features isn't running.

I figured it messes with MathJax, so I stopped it.

Damkerng T.

nods

M.A.Ramezani

It's really charming to use it on ELL though.

Damkerng T.

JavaScript is good, but it's one of the most abused things on the web.

M.A.Ramezani

It's one of the most abused things in the universe.

Damkerng T.

14:13

I guess you're right!

Nick

@DamkerngT. Are you talking about @ManishEarth, he's always there in the Physics Room. He studied at IIT Bombay if I'm not mistaken.

Damkerng T.

@Nick I suppose so. I remember that M (or Mu).

M.A.Ramezani

@Nick Hullo! Are you a native Englisher?

Damkerng T.

I was on ELU that year.

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. Was it scary? Did you run away in the end?

Damkerng T.

14:16

@M.A.Ramezani Not really. It was very friendly and lots of people were there (because of the winterbash).

Nick

@DamkerngT. Ah, his avatar was a black bold µ on a white background. His username is @ManishEarth

Damkerng T.

@Nick Yes!

Actually, SE became part of my life because of that winterbash.

M.A.Ramezani

Oooh I can't wait for the winter bash.

Nick

@M.A.Ramezani I believe I am although my family, culture and heritage would have you believe otherwise.

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani Wait till December. :D

M.A.Ramezani

14:19

Waiting$\ldots$ makes me thirsty!

Damkerng T.

LOL -- Sorry!

M.A.Ramezani

Two hours and 23 mins till iftar.

Nick

@M.A.Ramezani Don't expect every chat room to have $\LaTeX$ enabled.

M.A.Ramezani

No chatroom has $\LaTeX$ by default.

I just turned mine on.

Damkerng T.

I have a primitive built-in TeX processor in my head.

M.A.Ramezani

14:29

My robo-friend, about TeX, the primitive is the better.

Damkerng T.

:D

Nick

@M.A.Ramezani I haven't. Is there any automatic way to have it enabled once I reach anywhere on chat.stackexchange. This should be made into a browser extension or something similar.

M.A.Ramezani

in The Periodic Table, Apr 23 at 12:09, by Martin

ChatJax (LaTeX in Chat) with enabled mhchem

Damkerng T.

1

Q: you're gonna go out with this win -- meaning?

Example (audio clip): Yeah, they had us the first half. I'm not gonna lie—they had us. We weren't defeated, but they had us. But it took guts, it took an attitude—that's all it takes. That's all it takes to be successful is an attitude. And that's what our coach told us. He said, “Hey, it's g...

comprehension

M.A.Ramezani

I made a bookmark from the code Martin wrote in his answer, then enabled the bookmarks bar in chrome.

Damkerng T.

14:33

Sounds like a good question for StoneyB.

I'm sure it's fine, but he would know how to explain it, grammatically.

M.A.Ramezani

@Nick for example, this is a screenie:

Notice the bookmark ChatJax

Whenever I wanna turn it on, I click and drag the Chatjax to the tab.

Nick

@M.A.Ramezani Well, ofcourse I know that, silly. But my bookmarks bar is crowded and I often prefer to hide it. So, I don't like the bookmarklet. I was wondering if it could be auto-enabled from the client side.

M.A.Ramezani

@Nick Then just select the code and drag it to the tab.

Google search is gonna be a pain in the A though.

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