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01:44

0

Q: Suggestion: Markup for an incorrect example

Can we have markup for example sentences, as distinct from actual quotes? And markup to distinguish a correct example from an incorrect one? (Strikethrough is a poor substitute.)

Damkerng T.

09:27

1

Q: Look at them playing/play

Look at them playing in the water. Do you use LOOK AT + somebody + gerund form? How is this different from look at them play in the water?

grammar

PEU 242.7 (look at) says that look at can be followed by either object + -ing or object + infinitive, with an implication that "object + infinitive" is AmE.

Damkerng T.

11:51

1

Q: Yet in affirmative statement

I've been thinking of how 'yet' in the affirmative statement works. I think [1] through [3] work but I'm not sure about [4]. [1] A: We've got to hurry! B: Calm down. It's early yet. [2] A: Is he coming back soon? Has he finished his job in Beijing? B: No, he has two years yet. [3] We have a ...

adverbs

This could be dialectal, but I think (by taking a quick glance) all of the examples are possible.

Freddy

12:11

Hola

@dam I am not sure about 4th example

Damkerng T.

@Freddy I think it's similar to an example given by Macmillan: Ron and Charlene will be in Florida for another six days yet.

Hello!

Freddy

It does not sounds normal but seems correct

Damkerng T.

Though I think they're possible, I wouldn't recommend them to learners.

I mean using them.

Freddy

nods

wow first monsoon rain just started.

And it is not at all normal

Damkerng T.

Oh! How heavy is it?

Freddy

12:26

Below normal. I don't think it will last for more then 10 minutes. :(

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Anonymous

Look at them go! is AmE? Really?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I wonder that too, but that's what Swan said. :-)

Anonymous

I would've guessed it'd've been fine in BrE

Damkerng T.

I think he was thinking about an activity verb, like play or eat. Go has a wide range of meaning, I think.

Anonymous

12:35

My kneejerk reaction is skepticism, but I'm too lazy to look it up in PEU or check corpora right now :-)

Anonymous

Good morning, by the way!

Damkerng T.

Good morning!

Anonymous

I feel suddenly like I should choose my greetings based on your time zone since you choose yours based on mine

Damkerng T.

The example he uses is: Look at them eating! (or Look at them eat! for AmE)

Anonymous

Good evening! :-)

Damkerng T.

12:37

Well, good evening, too!

Anonymous

Yay!

Anonymous

I checked my world clock app and everything. I'm time zone challenged, you see.

Freddy

good(morning, afternoon, evening)

Anonymous

Well, maybe PEU is right.

Damkerng T.

I've miscalculated your local time so many times!

@Freddy All time zones in one!

Anonymous

12:39

Maybe—and this is just speculation—both are grammatical in both dialect groups, but one is more frequent than the other in each

Anonymous

Good tide, Freddy!

Damkerng T.

nods -- That was quite the same feeling I had the first time I saw that entry.

Anonymous

An example of that is have got for possession. In AmE we usually say I don't have any change while in BrE I haven't got any change is more frequent, but both are grammatical in both dialect groups

Freddy

@dam Yes, Everyone can pick their own.

Damkerng T.

nods

@Freddy Hehe!

Anonymous

12:42

Since PEU is a pedagogical grammar and not a million pages long, it sometimes has to simplify discussions about things like that

Anonymous

Which is okay

Anonymous

PEU is a pretty good book overall :-)

Damkerng T.

nods -- Though I think I've got a few entries that I don't entirely agree with the book.

But that only means that I do use the book!

Anonymous

I doubt you'll be able to find any book about grammar you're 100% in agreement with, to be honest

Anonymous

No need to throw it out over a little red ink :-)

Damkerng T.

12:47

Indeed! :-)

Anonymous

Say, I just realized, you have the app version, right? Does that mean you can't take notes in the margins, cross stuff out, etc.?

Anonymous

This is the first time it occurred to me that the app version might have a disadvantage

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I can't do that indeed. But I don't do that to any book anyway. :-)

@snailboat It could be a big disadvantage for annotation lovers, though.

Anonymous

Oh, I'm a compulsive note taker and margin scribbler :-)

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Anonymous

12:50

It sounds better at the end, because if you say it first, you're telling your listener that what you're about to ask isn't really that important or something for him to really worry about. If, by contrast, you say it at the end you give him the chance to be magnanimous and do you a great favor. — pazzo 13 hours ago

Anonymous

I don't really understand this comment

Anonymous

It has multiple upvotes, though

Anonymous

I think it sounds fine at the beginning

Damkerng T.

I'm one of the two. I think, in the fuzzy part, he was saying that...

Starting a question with "By any chance" will make it less likely for the listener to care to hear the rest of the question.

Anonymous

And I don't think the meaning changes much in different positions, to be honest

Damkerng T.

12:53

For some reason, if I try to move "By any chance" to the beginning of a sentence, I think I will replace it with "By the way".

Though the two are not completely interchangeable.

Anonymous

They seem different to me

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

By the way suggests you're bringing up a new topic

Damkerng T.

It's a little weird to me to say "By any chance" as the first words to a strange anyway.

Anonymous

Oh, it sounds fine to me. I probably say it that way :-)

Damkerng T.

12:55

"Hello. By any chance, do you know where the Happy Church is?"

M.A.Ramezani

Hullo!

I don't know where Happy Church is.

Sorry.

Damkerng T.

I think I'd phrase it as, "Excuse me. I'm sorry, but do you know where the Happy Church is?"

@M.A.Ramezani Hello! -- Hehe!

Anonymous

Sure, your phrasing seems good

Anonymous

In your example just now, the question is the first thing you say after beginning the conversation, so by the way wouldn't work

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

12:58

By any chance would be fine, though

Anonymous

My snails seem happy :-)

Damkerng T.

Thinking over it again, now I think it could work.

Yay!

M.A.Ramezani

Yay!

Is that because you're eating fatijas?

Damkerng T.

My tummy seems happy, too. :-)

Anonymous

Mmm, fajitas

Damkerng T.

12:59

I just had some fish sausages. :-)

M.A.Ramezani

Me too. What a great day!

Anonymous

I got some new spices. I got a container of crushed habanero flakes :-)

M.A.Ramezani

I'm gonna get another ice cream.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Neat!

Anonymous

I've never had a fish sausage

Damkerng T.

13:00

@snailboat It's quite delicious! It's a bit like fish balls, but in the form of sausages.

Anonymous

I've never had fish balls

Damkerng T.

Oh! :D

M.A.Ramezani

It must be like chicken ham.

Damkerng T.

You should try some. :D

Anonymous

Chicken...ham?

Damkerng T.

13:01

@M.A.Ramezani Almost! But it's a bit less, hmm... what's the word

Anonymous

I mostly eat vegetarian food

M.A.Ramezani

Fatijas.

Anonymous

Fajitas can be vegetarian. You don't have to use real meat

M.A.Ramezani

I won't become a vegetarian mostly because then I should avoid ice creams.

Anonymous

That's vegan.

Damkerng T.

13:02

Oh, this Thai word has no equivalent English word!

คาว

Anonymous

Vegetarians can have ice cream

Anonymous

But I don't since my body can't digest it

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. Easy: Three fingers.

You could do it with two English words. ^

Anonymous

Also because I don't want to get fat :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat That's a very good reason!

M.A.Ramezani

13:04

Well, I typically lose the calories I gain from food.

In spite of my latest trend of laziness.

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani It's a bit easier when we are very very young.

Anonymous

Sure. You can eat anything as long as you burn off an equivalent amount

Anonymous

It's also easier for males!

Damkerng T.

True!

M.A.Ramezani

Ya know @snail, there's a reason exercises and sports are fat burners TM.

Anonymous

13:05

Your body is extremely energy efficient when it comes to exercise. You have to do an insane amount of exercise to offset a small amount of extra food

M.A.Ramezani

When your body 'gets used to' burning calories, it would, even when you don't do hard work.

Anonymous

It's better to exercise and not to overeat

M.A.Ramezani

That is, your metabolism gets a nice boost.

@snailboat Well, yes. I'm thinking of staying where I am while you're planning on losing.

I mean losing weight, haha!

Damkerng T.

I remember that professional swimmers can need as high as 6000-7000 calories a day.

Anonymous

You don't know anything about my weight or metabolism :-)

Anonymous

13:07

Yes! When I used to work out 6+ hours a day my metabolism was insane

Anonymous

I ate like a pig, too :-)

M.A.Ramezani

I'm wondering if pigs eat a lot now.

I mean I've never seen 'em.

Anonymous

Well, in this figure of speech they do.

Damkerng T.

Some people can burn calories they take real fast.

M.A.Ramezani

Since their meat isn't Halal, Iranians don't keep them for meat.

@DamkerngT. All of this is partially dependent on your genes.

There's a recent trend in Iran wherein people claim

> Ah! See that guy? He says he eats one third of me and still he weighs twice as much as me. Corpulent dork! There's no such thing as genes being involved. It's just eating.

While they're wrong.

Oh my! What's that 5001 next to my name?

It just couldn't be 5000.

Anonymous

13:12

Sorta. Anyone can gain weight by overeating and anyone can lose weight by undereating.

M.A.Ramezani

:'(

@snailboat But how much overeating? How much undereating?

Anonymous

The main organ involved in weight is the brain

M.A.Ramezani

That's what's dependent on genes.

Anonymous

Yeah.

M.A.Ramezani

@snailboat I was getting to that.

Anonymous

13:13

My brother got the skinny genes.

M.A.Ramezani

Lucky him!

Anonymous

So it's hard for him to eat enough to gain weight, and his basal metabolism is decent

Anonymous

He doesn't feel lucky. He always wanted to gain weight

Anonymous

He was 5'7 and 90 lbs when he finished growing

Damkerng T.

Wait 90 lbs?!

Anonymous

13:15

Yeah. Skinny genes!

Damkerng T.

That's very light!

Anonymous

He's put on a good bit of muscle since then. Next to no fat, though

Damkerng T.

Oh, he was even lighter than my aunt (who was also very thin when she was young)!

nods

Anonymous

He skates a hundred miles each week

Damkerng T.

Wow!

M.A.Ramezani

13:16

@DamkerngT. He flew with the wind.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

M.A.Ramezani

@snailboat Is he expecting to gain weight with that?

Damkerng T.

I guess he could be a featherweight easily.

Anonymous

He still has trouble getting himself to eat enough.

M.A.Ramezani

That itself explains a lot.

Anonymous

13:17

@M.A.Ramezani He's built plenty of muscle, so yes, he gained weight

M.A.Ramezani

Oh cool.

That's all he needs.

Why gain weight?

What's his BMI?

Anonymous

Muscle weight.

Damkerng T.

Muscle weight is a good thing, imo.

M.A.Ramezani

For a muscly guy, a BMI of 23-26 indicates awesome health.

Anonymous

Muscles by themselves burn calories but the effect size is small. It's still good to have them

M.A.Ramezani

13:19

Yeah. And a gun too.

Anonymous

But muscles don't do as much to burn calories as some people suggest

Anonymous

I don't understand your gun segue

M.A.Ramezani

Pronouncing segue - please weight

Anonymous

Damkerng T.

LOL!

Anonymous

13:23

That image never stops making me laugh

Damkerng T.

That bowl is awesome! It's bulletproof!

M.A.Ramezani

@snailboat Beautiful!

Anonymous

I'm assuming you were talking about adding a gun to soup.

Anonymous

By the way, his BMI is still well under that 23-26 range

Anonymous

Also, he can digest dairy fine, even though I can't.

Anonymous

13:32

And he likes to use an absolutely insane amount of cheese and drink giant milkshakes :-)

Anonymous

And he keeps his freezer full of ice cream. Like, literally full. He's got like 30 flavors

Anonymous

I think dairy must be his favorite thing in the world :-)

M.A.Ramezani

He's having a happy life.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh!

That's quite a lot!

Anonymous

Well, he's a grown man, he can have as many types of ice cream as he wants :-)

M.A.Ramezani

13:35

...As long as his income allows.

Anonymous

That won't be a problem

Damkerng T.

He could open an ice cream shop ith that many ice creams, even! :)

Anonymous

He does make his own ice cream

M.A.Ramezani

Then that's why the supermarket next to our apt. has run out of ice cream.

Oh!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Makes sense!

M.A.Ramezani

13:37

Then that's why it ran outta milk too.

Anonymous

I used to get little milkshakes when I visited

Anonymous

Now taking multiple lactase tablets isn't enough

Anonymous

My body just rejects it

Anonymous

That's okay, though. I was never crazy about dairy like him :-)

M.A.Ramezani

You're body's really sensitive about stuff. Tell it to 'let it go'!

Damkerng T.

13:38

:D

M.A.Ramezani

@snailboat You should be!

Anonymous

My favorite foods in the world are hot peppers, onions, and garlic!

M.A.Ramezani

Nice blend!

Anonymous

:-D

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I'm sure you're safe from vampires. :-)

Anonymous

13:41

Phew!!

Anonymous

Vampires suck.

Damkerng T.

Literally!

Anonymous

Actually, I love vampires. I read all the urban fantasy I can get my hands on, good or bad :-)

Damkerng T.

But not zombies?

Or zombeavers. :P

Anonymous

Zombies come up too but I'll go on record as saying I don't like them.

Anonymous

13:43

But!

Anonymous

IZombie is an amazing show.

Damkerng T.

looking that up...

Anonymous

Shaun of the Dead is good, too.

Anonymous

iZombie is new this season.

Damkerng T.

Oh! -- nods

Anonymous

13:44

It's hilarious :-)

M.A.Ramezani

I zombiestified because of World war Z.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat It seems so!

@M.A.Ramezani Fast zombies are charming, right?!

M.A.Ramezani

I love movies with substantial plots.

Anonymous

I used to never watch TV, but now I use it as a social activity

M.A.Ramezani

Movies that make you think.

@snailboat I bet that's because of @Dam!

Damkerng T.

13:47

Eh?

Anonymous

Well, I've never watched TV with Damkerng exactly, but it's fun discussing TV here, I guess :-)

Damkerng T.

It is!

user116848

Good evening peeps!

M.A.Ramezani

Hullo!

Anonymous

But I was thinking of my friends here in the US I watch with

Anonymous

13:49

Right now iZombie is the only show airing here that I'm watching, but it's a good one :-)

M.A.Ramezani

It's an Apple product right?

Anonymous

Hehe

M.A.Ramezani

iPad, iPod, iZombie.

Damkerng T.

weZombies.

Man_From_India

:O

Oh I was having some questions regarding English....it's a bit strange...and now I see snailboat...

M.A.Ramezani

13:51

Robot zombie...

Damkerng T.

Hello, @Man_From_India!

Anonymous

Good week, @Man_From_India!

M.A.Ramezani

Cool!

user116848

Kewl!

Anonymous

(I made up a greeting based on @DamkerngT.'s good month!)

Man_From_India

13:52

@snailboat no is considered as a central determiner, and such is used both as predeterminer as well as postdeterminer....but then why we don't use such no? :O

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Hee

Man_From_India

Hello guys :-)

user116848

Hello!

M.A.Ramezani

@Man_From_India Oh no. It begins again.

Man_From_India

snailboat is there :-) it's bound to happen :D

btw how it is going @M.A.Ramezani?

M.A.Ramezani

13:54

Tomorrow I have a Persian grammar and structure exam.

Man_From_India

okay so u need to study...what r u doing here? :P ;-)

M.A.Ramezani

I'm now thinking: "Adverbial noun phrase, sentence adverb, adverb's adverb..."

Man_From_India

where is the real zombie?

M.A.Ramezani

BEHIND YOU MFI!

Man_From_India

goosebumps :-/

M.A.Ramezani

13:55

@Man_From_India How much studying do you think I need?

Man_From_India

@M.A.Ramezani u r great!!! :D so can't guess :-) but I needed 23 hours' study ;-)

M.A.Ramezani

I'm MAR, not great. Who's this great anyway?

Man_From_India

it's a a special title like Dr. :P

it's meant only for u

(no pun intended)

user116848

The chat room just got very crowded!

user116848

Awesome!

Man_From_India

13:59

hello @Arrowfar

user116848

Furious 7 - Official Trailer (HD)

►

user116848

@Man_From_India Hey :-)

M.A.Ramezani

Trailer?

user116848

I watched it the other day.

Man_From_India

:O

M.A.Ramezani

14:00

Give me the download link!

user116848

@M.A.Ramezani You will have to download the full movie or something :-)

Man_From_India

Pirates of Persia @M.A.Ramezani

Anonymous

Such is special

user116848

Go pirates! Go!

M.A.Ramezani

@Man_From_India Haha! You have no idea...

Excuse my typos. I'm talking in three rooms now.

Man_From_India

14:01

@snailboat that's what one google book result showed...but I needed more, so I came to you for help :-)

user116848

So in the movie they visit Dubai.

Anonymous

It's an adjectival predeterminer (part of speech = adjective, function = head of adjective phrase, function of adjective phrase = predeterminer)

user116848

Yeah many sports cars there. Some Arabs there are super rich.

user116848

But for hire sports cars are boring!

Anonymous

Other AdjPs as predeterminers include as/so/how/too/this/that + adjective

Anonymous

14:02

See CGEL p.435

M.A.Ramezani

@snailboat What's an adjectival thingy?

Man_From_India

okay...now it's a bit clear...

M.A.Ramezani

MFI MFI!

in We love math, physics, chemistry and random talk., 7 mins ago, by M.A.Ramezani

Where in India do people talk Indian English?

Like as in their mother language.

Anonymous

Significantly less than 1% of InE speakers are native speakers

Freddy

In school! :D

Man_From_India

14:06

@snailboat true

M.A.Ramezani

Hmm...

Freddy

1% is not small number. Just saying

M.A.Ramezani

That's like 2 million people?

That's a small number in comparison to the number of stars in the universe.

Man_From_India

@Freddy And in offices and places where hindi and that place's native language is not know to the speaker :-)

2

Anonymous

No, it's around 220,000 if memory serves

Anonymous

14:08

And I'm not saying that's an insignificant number, but the vast majority are non-native speakers and that shapes the language

Man_From_India

Not only that even those speaking English here are mostly non native...

Freddy

I don't know any community who have "English" as native language in India.

M.A.Ramezani

@Freddy ELL.SE Indian Community of Indians (ELLSEICI) has English as their native internet language.

Man_From_India

@Freddy I thought few like Ruskin Bond is a native speaker of English :-)

user116848

I hear in Pakistan we have a language called Brahui in which we have some Latin alphabets.

user116848

14:22

> Brahui is generally written in the Perso-Arabic script and there is even a Latin alphabet that has been developed for use with Brahui.

M.A.Ramezani

Interesting!

user116848

Yes in the province of Baluchistan.

M.A.Ramezani

Woo near Iran?

user116848

Yup!

user116848

Here some tourists go to Iran by car I hear. All we need is visa and border crossing!

M.A.Ramezani

14:26

But

user116848

My father suggested me the same thing in the past, but I said "Some other time dad!"

M.A.Ramezani

Our Baluchistan has very dangerous borders.

user116848

Well, we have a car in good condition.

M.A.Ramezani

Dangerous as in a lot of smugglers pass by and say hello (or hullo) to you there.

user116848

Yeah I know, on borders all kinds of crazy stuff happens, even killings.

user116848

14:28

Waziristan is another story.

user116848

I have traveled a lot though.

M.A.Ramezani

Good.

But I'm not a traveler myself.

Freddy

@Arrowfar have u been to wagha border?

@Man_From_India nods with Ruskin Bond

user116848

@Freddy Yes, near that. But not exactly at the border.

Freddy

Great :)

user116848

14:49

Lators gators!

user116848

Toodle pip!

M.A.Ramezani

Have a nice time!

user116848

Thanks, you too!

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