ELL's Cabin

Damkerng T.

05:57

@snailboat @AaronBrown I decided to buy a used MLA Handbook for Writers of Research Papers (6th ed.). :-)

0

Q: have much in common/have many in common

I am confused about "have much in common" and "have many in common". I have searched and I know the phrase "have something in common". If I want to convey that between Jack and I both like many stuffs and have the same tastes,such as movies,songs,games and so on. How should I say it correctly,...

word

It's an interesting question.

Though much in common is more common, I think many in common should work too.

(What's wrong with many alone? Do we really have to say many things? I don't think so. But that's different from much in common.)

It's interesting to me 'cause it reflects how native speakers perceive the world, given that there are two choices: one is countable, the other is uncountable.

And there always are at least two choices in English.

Anonymous

06:43

Much in this sense is polarity sensitive and usually appears in negative contexts

Anonymous

So "We don't have much/a lot in common" but "We have a lot in common"

Anonymous

Whereas "We have many in common" is possible in context, but how often do you talk about having a number of countable things in common? Not very often

Anonymous

Much is still possible in this sense in affirmative contexts but it's fairly marginal and not very natural. If anything, it sounds old-fashioned

Anonymous

A few years down the road and it might be finished becoming a negative polarity item

Damkerng T.

06:59

@snailboat I overlooked the polarity thing!

Anonymous

The polarity bit is important here—the OP missed it and someone needs to explain it in an answer

Anonymous

That's one reason I can't upvote the accepted answer

Damkerng T.

It's already been accepted!?

@Xiaolong Don't forget to "accept answer" if you find it perfect(If you want you can wait for other answer). — Freddy 27 mins ago

Oh, @Freddy!

Are we going to become a FLAWLESS stack?

Anonymous

I would encourage people to wait at least a day or two

Anonymous

Askers can be in a difficult position—how can they tell an answer is correct if they don't already know what the answer is?

Anonymous

07:12

Allowing some time to pass can help with that as the community gives feedback

Damkerng T.

I mentioned that to Ben once, about rep points influencing our learners.

Anonymous

Yeah... Someone could mistakenly think that an answer is correct because it was written by a high rep user

Damkerng T.

This is partly because of the rep point system itself, and partly because we encourage everyone, including non-native speakers, to answer.

Catija

Ugh... and I always tell them not to accept so quickly.

Damkerng T.

Hello @Catija!

Anonymous

07:15

We have good answers written by non-native speakers and bad answers written by native speakers. That said, some answers written by non-native speakers do contain mistakes native speakers would basically never make.

Catija

HI @DamkerngT.

Damkerng T.

I saw you in meatie's question. I'm glad that you're around. :-)

Catija

Meatie's question?? Which one?

Oh, the touch one?

Damkerng T.

The touched one. Yes.

Catija

:D Yeah. It's an easy trap to fall into, that Maulik made. It certainly sounds like it means the emotional thing... but it doesn't imply emotion at all, really.

Anonymous

07:20

The OP also wrote "many stuffs"

Damkerng T.

Oh, I didn't notice that. That's another good clue.

Anonymous

Rather than many/a lot of things or a lot of stuff (informal)

Damkerng T.

It's one of common errors, I think.

Anonymous

Imagine how weird it would sound if you said "We have much stuff in common"! Although some speakers still occasionally use much in this sense in affirmative contexts, since it sounds old fashioned and somewhat formal/stilted, it's really weird with stuff

Anonymous

But in a negative it's fine: "We don't have much stuff in common." (informal)

Damkerng T.

07:25

In the positive (We have much in common), it really sounds formal.

Anonymous

Yes, and although it's rather stiff and formal, your sentence is still possible. But in natural speech few people would say it

Anonymous

But it's clear that much is polarity sensitive and isn't used the same way in affirmative and non-affirmative contexts

Catija

OMG, Snailboat, we have so much stuffs in common that it's like we're twins :D

Anonymous

I say "non-affirmative" because much works fine in questions: "Do you have much in common?" is totally normal

Anonymous

So non-affirmative basically means "in negatives and in questions"

Anonymous

07:28

Hehe!

Damkerng T.

:D

Oh, I remember that I have read this before, but I haven't given it a real thought. It's PEU 357.: In a formal style, much and many are more common in affirmative clauses.

(But) "In an informal style, we use much and many mostly in questions and negative clauses."

Freddy

@dam I always ask users to accept answer. There are very few accepted answers on question page. I think all S.E. sites have same problem(if you consider it as problem)

Anonymous

Many is less restricted than much, though

Anonymous

@Freddy I suggest waiting at least 48 hours if you're going to leave that sort of message

Anonymous

No one's had a chance to write a good answer yet

Damkerng T.

07:35

@Freddy I think it's better to tell a user that only when they seem to not accept any answers. This is just the first question of this user (iirc).

Anonymous

And some people ignore questions with accepted answers, so it's counterproductive accepting a bad one

Damkerng T.

And it's quite clear to me that the existing answer is not good.

Freddy

Oh okay I will take care about it next time.

Damkerng T.

I'm sure I can write something better, but it would still not be as good as I wish.

(Imagine our ELL is only as good as me.)

Anonymous

I participate on ELL sometimes even though my answers aren't necessarily all that great. I think it's okay—we try our best, and sometimes the community helps us identify and fix problems in our posts

Anonymous

07:42

Sometimes they don't, but the community is made of folks who are trying :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat From what I can remember, your answers were one of the main reasons that I chose to join ELL. :-)

I mean, everyone knows that there are a lot of English sites out there.

I've never cared to join any of them.

Anonymous

I can't always meet the standard I judge posts by…

Damkerng T.

In a way, ELL gave me some kind of hope. :-)

Anonymous

Oh! :-)

Damkerng T.

It's about the same feeling when I found PEU or Halliway's ideas. :-)

Anonymous

07:45

Well, I know some stuff about English. I would know more if I didn't spend so much time focusing on Japanese instead :-)

Damkerng T.

LOL

Probably the same for me about Thai. :D

Anonymous

Oops, I mean some stuffs

Damkerng T.

Though I think my Thai is okay enough to get by. :-)

@snailboat Argh!

Anonymous

Hehe, sorry :-)

Anonymous

Too soon.

Damkerng T.

07:49

BTW, this question looks interesting to me:

1

Q: "be" as the main verb of clause

Stackoverflow requires all users be polite and helpful when answering a question. Stackoverflow requires that all users are polite and helpful when answering a question. Is the first sentence correct? If so, what is the name of this clause? How natural and formal is it, especial...

verb clauses subjunctive mandative

I found a relevant page in CGEL student edition: books.google.com/…

Anonymous

Oh, great question!

Anonymous

Make sure you take Catija's comment into account

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

It might give you a clue about what be is doing here

Damkerng T.

My default reading makes me think #2 is incorrect, too.

(I'm still not sure about that, though.)

Anonymous

07:53

Do you guys think the official ETS GRE book is good enough for the exam preparation?

Damkerng T.

About the default reading, I think are could be possible if it's something like...

> Stackoverflow requires that all users are 13 years old or older.

@Ashwin I really have no idea, though it looks like a good book.

A moment...

Anonymous

I'm not familiar with that book, I'm afraid

Damkerng T.

Oh, I don't have it. I only have the GMAT one.

Anonymous

It does come with a CD,so it should be fine!

Damkerng T.

Hehe! I didn't know that its CD can make it fine. :-)

Anonymous

07:58

@DamkerngT. Suggested reading: uijs.ui.ac.ir/are/files/site1/user_files_98f129/…

Damkerng T.

@Ashwin If the book is similar to the official GMAT guide, the answers should have deep enough explanations attached. Is the GRE official book like that?

Anonymous

I wish these CD's came with a pronunciation section @DamkerngT.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It's the official GRE book as I said above.

Damkerng T.

@Ashwin Oh, the pronunciation. YouTube and some websites can help you a lot with that.

Anonymous

And there's one called the PrincetonReview @DamkerngT.You know that?

Damkerng T.

08:00

@Ashwin I don't have it, so I don't know how the inside of the book would look like.

@Ashwin Nope. Sorry.

@snailboat Thanks for the PDF!

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I gotta go now.Thanks mate!

Damkerng T.

I think polite is tricky.

@Ashwin See you around!

Oh, but ACTIVE BE vs. STATIVE BE makes it clear.

But covert mandative in A Student's Introduction to English Grammar (what a long name) makes it look like are works, too, in the OP's sentence.

Morning @M.A.Ramezani!

M.A.Ramezani

Mourning @Dam!

Damkerng T.

I don't like to mourn. (-_-)"

Catija

@DamkerngT. Technically, that's not SO... it's COPPA... but that's being a bit of a nit-picker.

Damkerng T.

08:08

Ahh...

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. The second sentence is perfectly grammatical. It just has a subtle semantic problem.

Anonymous

That is, the meaning isn't quite right.

M.A.Ramezani

Oh hullo to you too @snail @catija!

Damkerng T.

So it's more like COPPA requires Stackoverflow to comply with the Act. :D

Anonymous

Good mroing, @M.A.Ramezani!

M.A.Ramezani

08:10

Mroing is good too. I might consider it.

Catija

@DamkerngT. As an example, a school could say : "All of our students are polite and helpful." And this would be perfectly fine (if not likely true).

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Does the covert mandative mean that they (be and are) are freely interchangeable in that kind of context?

Catija

Hi @M.A.Ramezani

Damkerng T.

nods

M.A.Ramezani

What's the sentence this time?

Anonymous

08:11

Which kind of context?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat The OP's sentence (or mandative in general).

Anonymous

The OP's sentences are not interchangeable

Damkerng T.

I mean, I'd think that #2 (are) is wrong too, if I hadn't seen this covert mandative mentioned.

M.A.Ramezani

Ah, it's the be case.

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani That's right!

The example from the book: It is essential that he is told immediately.

M.A.Ramezani

08:13

I remember I felt uneasy when I said something like the natives be blah bah blah but I learned to ignore it and say it's correct.

I mean in a clause.

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani Here in this case, we are sure that be is correct, but what about are?

Anonymous

Be in is told is the passive auxiliary

M.A.Ramezani

There are several questions here, it'd be better to only have one. If there's a commonality between these questions, ask about that. One of those examples says 'be', the other inserts a 'that' and changes to 'are'. Which are you asking about? I think this is going to get opinions as answers, and it will be hard for the answers to answer the whole question, whatever it is. — DCShannon 5 hours ago

Wait what? >.<

Anonymous

I disagree with DCShannon

Damkerng T.

I edited the question immediately when I saw that comment.

M.A.Ramezani

08:15

What question are they not gonna close?!

Guess @Arau was right.

Damkerng T.

And I didn't really do anything, just formatting.

M.A.Ramezani

He thinks adding a relative pronoun might make the answers opinion-based? What logic is this?

Damkerng T.

On the other hand, a couple of days ago, I got this:

@DamkerngT. The asker hasn't made it completely clear whether this was heard or read ('misspelled' not withstanding), but since the alleged misspelling resulted in a real word that could plausibly be part of a real phrase this seems very on-topic. I found a few other forums where this same question was asked, apparently by different people, indicating that it's a question others may have. — DCShannon 2 days ago

Catija

@DamkerngT. Am I understanding incorrectly that it can only be used in the form of third person singular?

Anonymous

That isn't really a relative pronoun

Anonymous

08:18

There are several key differences here, not just one

Damkerng T.

@Catija Hmm... from what I read, it doesn't look like so.

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. Good. So at least they're not that much of a blind-closer.

Catija

I'm not actually certain that the OP meant to add the "that" to the second question or omit it from the first...

Anonymous

That here is a subordinator.

M.A.Ramezani

@snailboat Hmm? Let me take a look at the sentence carefully this time.

Damkerng T.

08:19

Here is the page I found the information about "covert mandative": books.google.com/…

Anonymous

A relative clause has a gap somewhere.

Damkerng T.

@Catija Me either. I wasn't sure if I should fix it, so I left it like that.

@M.A.Ramezani Before saying that, you might want to have a look at the most upvoted answer first.

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. To which question?

Anonymous

> the potatoes [ that/which/{} I ate ______ ] ← the relative clause has a gap in object position which is filled semantically by potatoes

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani The "learn by hard" one.

M.A.Ramezani

08:21

@snailboat Aha! Yes. Thanks for reminding me.

Catija

@DamkerngT. I think that's what I'm looking at, too... but the last paragraph in the sentence says:

> With verbs other than be and with subjects other than 3rd person singulars, the subjunctive and the covert mandative have the same form: It is essential that they tell him immediately.

Damkerng T.

Oh, I missed that part!

Anonymous

A subordinate content clause doesn't have this sort of gap: "I hope [ that he eats his potatoes]."

Damkerng T.

Wait, but that's only about the form of the verb.

Catija

It also doesn't explain what to do when the verb is "be". :P

Damkerng T.

08:23

I mean, I think their point is we can't tell a covert mandative from a subjunctive one if the verb is not be and the subject is not a third-person noun/pronoun.

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. Not proving anything, except that they were not paying attention when commenting on the newest question.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

They're both types of subordinate clause, but only the former is relative

M.A.Ramezani

Yep.

Damkerng T.

@M.A.Ramezani Well, there are many ways to look at it. I'll keep what I think to me. :-)

M.A.Ramezani

08:24

@Catija Freak out?

@DamkerngT. I'll pass.

Oh, hullo @evp!

I see a lot of Russians lately!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Our OP's examples are subordinate content clauses too, I think.

Hi @evp! Welcome to the room!

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. Yes they are. I was rash when I said that's a relative pronoun.

Damkerng T.

0

A: Pronunciation of Chase

There is no hard and fast (reliable) rule. Here are a few examples of /s" and /z/ sounds when the "s" is sandwiched between vowels: With /s/: case, base, chase, vase, erase With /z/: phase, phrase, laser, quasar The third response in this post has a nice list of /s/ vs /z/ sounds for you.

Catija

Oh well... I hope you figure it out, @DamkerngT. This is one of those cases where I know it's wrong but can't explain why.

Damkerng T.

I guess that Webster might've tried to respell all those with the /z/ sound with the "z". :-)

Anonymous

08:28

Content clauses are subordinate by definition, by the way. I was being slightly redundant to get my point across

Anonymous

@Catija Which? Be? I linked to a paper with the answer

M.A.Ramezani

Phaze would be a cool word to have.

Damkerng T.

@Catija I'd be glad already if I could figure it out whether it's wrong or not. :D

@M.A.Ramezani First word came to mind, eazy!

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. It's the force. It keeps telling @catija it's wrong.

Anonymous

EZ!

M.A.Ramezani

08:29

Phraze would be too weird.

Catija

@M.A.Ramezani OMG... that's it!

Anonymous

Freiz.

Damkerng T.

LOL

@snailboat BZ! (too)

Anonymous

That would be the closest we'd get to a phonetic spelling, I think. Freiz

Anonymous

We really have no need for the ph digraph except to show etymological connections

Catija

08:32

@snailboat That's a long paper... is there a page number that addresses the specific be/are issue?

Damkerng T.

@snailboat It could be interesting if we change all the spellings according to the sounds.

Anonymous

Well, the second half where it details lexical be's semantic traits

Catija

@snailboat I'm sure you're familiar with Ghoti?

M.A.Ramezani

@snailboat pH is the gist of biochemistry!

Anonymous

pH isn't a digraph

Anonymous

08:33

I'm familiar with ghoti! :-)

Damkerng T.

> In conclusion, I have shown that the assumption that every English clause requires a lexical verb is unfounded.

Wait, what?

Anonymous

Yeah, that's a silly holdover from traditional grammar

Damkerng T.

(I'm a jump-to-conclusion man.)

M.A.Ramezani

@DamkerngT. Yeah? I read references first.

Anonymous

Be is usually auxiliary even if it's the only verb in a sentence

M.A.Ramezani

08:34

Then look at graphs, then read the abstract.

The rest will depend on what the article is about and in what level it is.

fahdijbeli

morning

M.A.Ramezani

Mroing!

^ Invented by @snailboat. ^

Damkerng T.

Good morning!

Catija

Good night!

M.A.Ramezani

Catija

08:39

Ok, I'm off to bed. Be FLAWLESS, all.

Damkerng T.

Have a good sleep!

I guess we will be FLAWLESS for quite a while. :D

M.A.Ramezani

@Catija Nighty night! Don't let the FLAWLESS bite!

Anonymous

Good mroing is a Yahoo! Answers meme. Feel free to look it up :-)

M.A.Ramezani

@snailboat How I hate that name. OK OK, you convinced me not to use it.

Anonymous

How is babby formed?

►

Anonymous

08:50

That's where mroing comes from. Since you like twisting morning, I thought you'd enjoy it :-)

evp

@DamkerngT. Hi :)

Damkerng T.

Hello!

Oh, we have Stack Overflow in Russian, too!

agent5566

09:56

SF in russian looks slightly lonely

Araucaria

10:33

@DamkerngT. In conclusion, I have shown that the assumption that every English clause requires a lexical verb is unfounded. Where's that quote from?

Damkerng T.

@Araucaria From a paper. A moment...

uijs.ui.ac.ir/are/files/site1/user_files_98f129/…

snailboat posted the link to the paper a few hours ago.

eatq

10:54

@M.A.Ramezani Do not wake the lurker! :D

M.A.Ramezani

@eatq Much obliged.

Lamart

11:08

Hello!

M.A.Ramezani

Hullo!

agent5566

Hello!

Lamart

@agent5566 How did you land in this room?

@M.A.Ramezani Did you add dots in your username?

@DamkerngT. Hello Robo!

Damkerng T.

Hello!

agent5566

@Lamart by clicking "Chat" in the SF menu :D

M.A.Ramezani

11:20

@Lamart Yep.

agent5566

@Lamart and what about you?

M.A.Ramezani

@agent5566 Long story.

Oooh @Lamart you have more than 100 rep on meta.SE now. Yay!

And Shadow guy put a bounty on your question.

So your question will get even more downvotes.

I mean upvotes.

agent5566

@M.A.Ramezani Has he alredy told the story ?

M.A.Ramezani

@agent5566 I was part of the story.

@agent5566 Hehe...So many edits and you didn't notice already is misspelled. :}

agent5566

@M.A.Ramezani Is this a romantic story? a part of one you was

M.A.Ramezani

11:30

@agent5566 It was drama.

Lamart

@agent5566 My story started with chat.se , took a somersault at the scary Meta.SE and ended over here. In this time I had already pissed off half of Meta.SE (I initially had 14 downvotes on my question) and one moderator(Shog). And atm, I am the lead crackpot in finding chat.se bugs ;)

@M.A.Ramezani Drama -_-

agent5566

@Lamart look at your already buddy, @M.A.Ramezani is watching

M.A.Ramezani

@agent5566 ...With his eagle eyes.

Lamart

Captain actually goofed up something on my first day here. lol :)

M.A.Ramezani

@Lamart Trying to remember.

What did I goof up again?

I've goofed up so much I can't remember.

agent5566

11:35

Who is Captain ? @M.A.Ramezani is it you?

M.A.Ramezani

Yes.

Lamart

@M.A.Ramezani Something...thats why Shog9 was here right?

agent5566

Is it free to choose rank here )

?

M.A.Ramezani

@agent5566 What rank?

@Lamart Oh, it wasn't my fault.

agent5566

@M.A.Ramezani i'm talking about the word Captain

M.A.Ramezani

11:42

@agent5566 Oh, you can call everyone everything here, as long as it's polite and recognizable.

agent5566

11:52

Guys, did you watch new Mad Max film ?

Lamart

@M.A.Ramezani Chat.SE is getting famous slowly :)

13

Q: Demystifying chat reputation requirements

How much reputation do you need to participate in chat? It's an easy answer, right? You need at least 20 reputation to participate in chat. /privileges/chat even tells us so. But for which chat site(s) is that? Because we have at least three chat domains: StackOverflow chat StackExchange c...

support reputation chat privileges

@agent5566 Link!

agent5566

Is it the drama-post?

Lamart

@agent5566 There was no drama.

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