ELL's Cabin

Anonymous

18:01

I don't really have a reason to buy a book about legal writing at the moment

Anonymous

I'm too lazy to find out for myself what the difference is between them :-)

Anonymous

I'm having tea! That's more important.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, I'll make some for me too!

Aww, Garner's Dictionary of Legal Usage ハードカバー won't ship to here.

Anonymous

Mean!

Anonymous

Hey, is there an e-book version?

Anonymous

18:07

Oh, that's the legal one

Anonymous

There's a Kindle version of the other one

Anonymous

I found out recently there was an e-book version of Native Listening

Anonymous

amazon.com/Native-Listening-Language-Experience-Recognition/dp/…

Anonymous

Look, it's only $18 in e-book form!

Damkerng T.

Neat! Thanks for the link!

Fantasier

18:09

The cover sorta reminds me of The Lord of the Rings.

Damkerng T.

:D

Anonymous

It has some of the research I've discussed here before about how people perceive spoken language

Anonymous

Native and non-native

Anonymous

@Fantasier It is a fancy cover, isn't it?

Anonymous

A lot of linguistics stuff either has an ugly cover or a stock cover shared by a zillion other books

Fantasier

18:12

Fancy indeed :-)

Damkerng T.

fancying writing a book titled 'Non-Native Listening' ... :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Ah, but the book is all about that, too :-)

Anonymous

It's about how our minds work

Damkerng T.

Oh, no!

Anonymous

She's a psychologist and a linguist

Fantasier

18:13

So much psycholinguistics :-P

and cognitive science.

Anonymous

Yeah, it's what you call psycholinguistics

Damkerng T.

2nd attempt: fancying writing a book titled 'Non-Native Listening: Like a Machine' ... :-)

Fantasier

Oh, by the way, why did we need to create this room? Was there anything wrong with the old room?

Damkerng T.

(with a sub-title: How to beat Siri at your second language) :P

@Fantasier There are two main reasons, actually.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Don't let me stop you from pondering writing a book, by the way! :-)

Anonymous

18:15

I do think it's a good book to read. Twenty years of research went into it

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Oh, I've already added her book to my Wish List. :-)

Anonymous

Another frustrating thing about linguistics books: A lot of them aren't really intended to be bought by individuals

Anonymous

They expect them to be purchased by university libraries and the like

Anonymous

And their prices are often astronomical

Damkerng T.

nods

Fantasier

18:16

Yeah... They are usually not affordable :-\

The first time I looked the CGEL up to see the price. I was shocked. lol

Anonymous

Well, there are books that cost in the hundreds of dollars that are just a couple hundred pages

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier Oh, yeah? I'm still shocked, though. :P

Anonymous

CGEL is at least a monumental work

Anonymous

Reference grammars are always expensive.

Anonymous

Unless you get them used.

Anonymous

18:17

Which I recommend, if possible :-)

Anonymous

I got Martin's Reference Grammar of Japanese (1975) for $11!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Wow, that's super-cheap!

Anonymous

Right now I'm focusing on getting books about Japanese

Fantasier

It's a little inconvenient. If I want to use it, I have to borrow it from the library.

Anonymous

Or general linguistics

Anonymous

18:18

@Fantasier Yeah. Though some libraries don't let you take their reference books.

Fantasier

@snailboat Luckily, mine does. But still, it's much better if I have it on my shelf. Anytime I'm curious it's within my reach.

Anonymous

Next on the list might be Comrie's Tense

Damkerng T.

At the moment, all non-Kindle books on Amazon (used) I tried gave me this message: Sorry, this item can't be shipped to your selected address.

Anonymous

$25, not exorbitant :-)

Anonymous

I need to read about relative and absolute tense

Anonymous

18:20

I've read about it in the context of Japanese, but I know Comrie wrote about it and his book is considered a standard introduction on the topic

Anonymous

But I've never read it

Damkerng T.

1

Q: Why "truly" instead of "truely"?

Is there any reason, historical or grammatical etc? Why isn't this tolerated like "judgement" or "blueish"? I couldn't find related posts around here or EL&U forum as far as I searched. I'd truely appreciate your answers...

spelling

Ah, should we close it or leave it?

It's interesting, though. Then again, I feel like it's an etymology question.

Fantasier

Looks like an English Stack question.

Damkerng T.

nods

Anonymous

The ELL answer might simply be that it's arbitrary at this point

Anonymous

18:25

It doesn't reflect pronunciation and the spelling isn't related to any productive process

Anonymous

...I think

Anonymous

I don't actually know the answer to the question

Anonymous

broccoli forest is a linguist in Japan

Damkerng T.

Oh!

Fantasier

But his point is actually quite interesting :-)

Oh, broccoli forest is their name!

(Well, pseudonym, I guess)

Damkerng T.

18:28

I wonder what (stab) in their profile means. :-)

Fantasier

Haha. His bio on Japanese Stack.

broccoli forest

4.7k 3 19

grammar word-choice words kanji nuances translation meaning

Damkerng T.

LOL

Anonymous

@Fantasier Before I ever saw the name broccoli forest, I felt that broccoli were tiny giant trees

Damkerng T.

Umm... tiny giant trees? :D

^There must be a good linguistic term for it.

Fantasier

I tried googling broccoli tree and got something, um, that can be related to what you said.

Anonymous

18:30

Anonymous

See, they're like very very big trees, if they were very very little

Damkerng T.

Oh, look who's here! Hi, @MARamezani!

MARamezani

Who's here? Worried

Anonymous

All of us, I think

MARamezani

Anybody missed me?

Fantasier

18:31

Oops, wrong one :-P

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani No worries. We just miss you.

Um.. missed, I think.

Fantasier

^ could be the "original" size of broccoli.

MARamezani

@Fantasier I love Photoshop.

Fantasier

@MARamezani I don't. It's expensive.

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier You can subscribe to it now.

$10 a month

Anonymous

18:33

I bought Photoshop CS2 a long time ago.

Anonymous

I've never needed anything newer :-)

MARamezani

...and regretted it.

Fantasier

Yeah... I think we don't really need anything newer than CS2.

Anonymous

No, I'm relatively happy with my purchase, though I don't use it all the time

Fantasier

My first Photoshop experience was 7. It was good enough back then :-)

Anonymous

18:34

I have a couple art tablets to go with it

Anonymous

One's a big 21" Cintiq, and the other is a little tablet that takes a lot less space :-)

Fantasier

Wow, you have Cintiq!

Like a digital artist :-)

Anonymous

Yeah! Like! :-)

MARamezani

How many days have I been gone?

I've been through hell.

Anonymous

I mean, technically I am what you might call an artist, but that word is probably far too kind

MARamezani

18:36

Hullo @AndrewKolenteew!

Anonymous

@MARamezani A lot. A lot of days. Where've you been?

Fantasier

I bet my drawing skill is worse than yours. :P

@MARamezani Keep going! (Like they said)

MARamezani

@snailboat In Iran.

Anonymous

Welcome to the Cabin, @AndrewKolenteew!

MARamezani

I'm not back though.

Fantasier

18:37

From where?

MARamezani

This is my subconsciousness.

Andrew Kolenteew

@snailboat thank you)

Anonymous

@MARamezani Your subconscious is good at typing.

Andrew Kolenteew

@MARamezani hello

MARamezani

I've/He's been practicing ya know.

Fantasier

18:39

There are keyboards in hell?

Or typewriters?

Or... what came before typewriters?

Andrew Kolenteew

@MARamezani I haven't understood you

MARamezani

@AndrewKolenteew Where? Last message? Don't worry though. I don't understand myself too.

Anonymous

@AndrewKolenteew Don't worry, MARamezani is silly :-)

MARamezani

Especially after the effing exams.

Andrew Kolenteew

@MARamezani Ok) I speak English enough well, but I'd like to improve my English, to speak it not worse than native speakers. That's why I need practice\

Fantasier

18:43

@MARamezani Now I see what you meant by hell.

Andrew Kolenteew

@snailboat Ahah)

Damkerng T.

Hi @AndrewKolenteew!

Andrew Kolenteew

@DamkerngT. Hi!

@DamkerngT. How are you&

?*

MARamezani

In fact, I'm also gonna vanish for some days.

Damkerng T.

Good. Thanks! I'm browsing the main site at the moment.

@MARamezani Oh, some more exams? or a summer trip?

MARamezani

18:45

@Dam is gonna breathe out ta his nostrils for some moment.

Stupid auto correction.

Damkerng T.

I'm thinking about adding a couple of entries from two grammar books for Cookie Monster.

Andrew Kolenteew

@DamkerngT. Very well, but I'll go to work. English is well, but the application must work in the future, as fast as it's possible

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. My exams have barely begun...Am screwed.

Damkerng T.

@AndrewKolenteew The sooner, the better. :D

@MARamezani Poor thing!

MARamezani

in The Periodic Table, 12 mins ago, by MARamezani

Haha, poor things.

Damkerng T.

18:48

:D

MARamezani

This is the cycle of life.

Damkerng T.

0

Q: What's the difference between the simple past tense and the present perfect?

The simple past tense indicates that an activity or situation began and ended at a particular time in the past. The present perfect expresses the idea that something happened (or never happened) before now, at an unspecified time in the past.The exact time it happened is not importa...

grammar

Andrew Kolenteew

@DamkerngT. By the way the verb to think can not be used in Continuous

Damkerng T.

This question got 18k views, but only 2 votes!

@AndrewKolenteew Really?

MARamezani

BTW, Chem.SE graduated, and I was absent when everyone was shedding tears of victory...Heartbreaking, even for a dolt like me. :{(

Andrew Kolenteew

18:49

@DamkerngT. Ыгку

Sure*

MARamezani

What's with the asterisks?

Andrew Kolenteew

Where are you from? I'm from Ukraine

Damkerng T.

@AndrewKolenteew Are you really sure?

MARamezani

A use I'm not aware of?

@AndrewKolenteew Iran.

Anonymous

@AndrewKolenteew Think is typically a stative verb, so we usually use it in the present simple: "I think you're right."

Anonymous

18:51

Particularly in informal speech it is sometimes used as a dynamic verb: "I'm thinking you're right."

Andrew Kolenteew

@snailboat alleng.ru/mybook/3gram/6verb_09.htm

Damkerng T.

We can also ask someone what they're thinking, even.

@AndrewKolenteew Burn it!

Anonymous

So your rule is not true all the time, though it's true that people usually use it as a stative verb

Andrew Kolenteew

this site is in Russian, but the list of verbs is in English

MARamezani

@AndrewKolenteew No link can beat the mighty @snailboat.

Anonymous

18:53

It's best to think of that as a general guideline, not a strict rule

Anonymous

Almost any stative verb can be used as a dynamic verb some of the time, but some verbs are more restricted than others

Anonymous

It's a complex topic to describe precisely, so it's often simplified

Andrew Kolenteew

@snailboat No, no. It's a logic of English grammar. You think till the death. What do you think about in the moment?

Damkerng T.

@AndrewKolenteew I'm thinking, you're wrong.

Andrew Kolenteew

We can not say What are you thinking about

No you think that I'm wrong

I'll try to find an English site with grammar about it

MARamezani

18:57

Grabs popcorn I'm thinking this is getting interesting.

@AndrewKolenteew I'm now thinking that not all of the grammar sites out there are reliable.

Andrew Kolenteew

There are verbs which are normally not used in the Present Progressive, like:
be, believe, belong, hate, hear, like, love, mean, prefer, remain, realize, see, seem, smell, think, understand, want, wish

Damkerng T.

"Just A Dream" by Nelly - Sam Tsui & Christina Grimmie

►

Andrew Kolenteew

englisch-hilfen.de/en/grammar/present_progressive_verbs.htm

Damkerng T.

Especially for @AndrewKolenteew

Anonymous

@AndrewKolenteew See The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language p.167, under Dynamicity

MARamezani

18:59

@AndrewKolenteew BTW you can use block quotes here.

Damn that auto correction!!!!

Andrew Kolenteew

Ok.

Damkerng T.

@AndrewKolenteew I can't read Russian, but I think that page looks pretty good, though it's still incomplete. At least they got the part "not normally used" right. Can you think of a real example of, let's say, hearing?

Andrew Kolenteew

I hear you.

Damkerng T.

No, I mean hearing, not hear.

MARamezani

> I'm hearing spooky sounds here...HALP!

Andrew Kolenteew

19:05

I do it at the moment, but I don't use continuous

I hear you now

I sure what I say.

Anonymous

> Are you hearing this?

Anonymous

That's a perfectly natural English sentence in the right context.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani some [HALP] <-- Here!

MARamezani

Ya know, the point is that stative verbs are usually without -ing, not always.

Andrew Kolenteew

Do you hear this?

Anonymous

19:07

@MARamezani Or, to put it another way: stative verbs are always with -ing, but sometimes they turn into dynamic verbs :-)

MARamezani

Common @Andrew, English is more flexible than that!!!!!¡

Fantasier

I'm not even sure most of those are stative verbs.

Damkerng T.

> I'm hearing you clearly on 104.4 FM in Whitchurch, north Hampshire this morning! It's a refreshing change from the usual fare on the dial!
https://www.facebook.com/resonancefm/posts/10150622555443107

Andrew Kolenteew

Maybe in slang we can say like this, but in classic English-grammar we can not say this

Damkerng T.

LOL

Andrew Kolenteew

19:09

Are you native speaker?

MARamezani

No.

Fantasier

I'm not. But snailboat is.

Damkerng T.

I'm not.

MARamezani

But meet @Dam and his examples anyways.

Damkerng T.

But if someone said, "I'm thinking ..." or "I'm hearing you clearly" etc. you'd be wrong if you thought what they said was wrong.

Anonymous

19:10

@AndrewKolenteew You're making the mistake of assuming the grammar you read is a correct and comprehensive description of the English language.

Anonymous

The rules you learned are "baby rules"―they're helpful at first, but they're simplifications that aren't completely accurate.

MARamezani

That's the hammer. ^

@Andrew be the nail.

Anonymous

That's not to say the rules are entirely false. They just don't work 100% of the time.

Andrew Kolenteew

I'll download book soon and find this rule. I must check it))

Co Koder

hi all

Fantasier

19:11

@MARamezani I think you could be a little nicer? :-O

Co Koder

I am looking for a word to express how close a person to another person. For example, your best friend is very close to you. Can I say "closeness"? or any other word?

Andrew Kolenteew

the closest.

I think it's better

MARamezani

@Fantasier That's an expression man...I mean Fa.

@CoKoder Hmm...closeness...Could you be more specific about the context?

Hullo BTW!

Damkerng T.

@CoKoder Closeness should work in general.

Co Koder

@MARamezani I want to rate how close all my friends are. For example, "closeness" of my girl friend is 100, my best friend is 90 and so on...

Fantasier

19:14

@MARamezani Hmm? Which expression are you talking about?

I think closeness is good enough?

MARamezani

@Fantasier Hammer and nails.

Andrew Kolenteew

@snailboat I have have spent much time to learn English grammar, that's why I'm sure in my opinion. Maybe in talk native-speakers do not use all the rules in grammar.

of grammar*

Fantasier

@MARamezani And what was your intended meaning, exactly? I suspected it wasn't something nice?

MARamezani

@CoKoder This is one of the cases that I would coin something, but closeness is good.

@Fantasier It was.

Co Koder

Ok, thanks.

Fantasier

19:17

@MARamezani Really? What does it mean then? Enlighten me!

MARamezani

I meant for it to mean This is the bottom line which points directly at the problem you're having. Accept it, though it might be bitter.

Put plzzzs there if you want politeness and stuff.

Fantasier

@MARamezani :-( !

MARamezani

To me too.

Fantasier

I knew it!

Dang

I can never trust you MAR :-P

Andrew Kolenteew

So I'll go to work)))

MARamezani

19:19

Yup, that's me...

Fantasier

A liar!

You deserve hell!

MARamezani

@Fantasier It feels hot!

Fantasier

Must be! You could try living in Thailand like me, too. Just as hot.

Damkerng T.

Is ))) the new smiley?

I think we got a question with ((( ... ))) earlier today.

Fantasier

I don't know. If it were, I think it would be a very weird face.

You know, let's rotate it 90 degrees clockwise and... ugh

Weird face.

Face, do you even face?

MARamezani

19:23

@Andrew we're pleased to announce that your face is weird.

Fantasier

Of course that's not what I meant!

MARamezani

Exxxactly.

Fantasier

Exxxxactly not.

Damkerng T.

I still can't find my face! Where is it? Where is it? (I remember I posted a close-up shot here. Um... I mean, Asimo's face.)

Found it!

Fantasier

@AndrewKolenteew Please consider keeping your mind a little more open and not sticking too much to only one book. That way you will definitely improve better and faster.

MARamezani

19:25

Nice selfie.

Damkerng T.

:D

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. Am I the only one that thinks this is actually really spooky.

Damkerng T.

LOL!

MARamezani

@Fantasier Good point. You're not getting a star.

Fantasier

@MARamezani I didn't expect one anyway. Don't confuse me with yourself :-P

MARamezani

19:26

@Fantasier That's @Dam before planning doomsday with Jim.

Fantasier

@MARamezani Who's this Jim? You?

Damkerng T.

keeps planning...

Fantasier

I knew it! You're the mastermind behind every single catastrophe on earth.

MARamezani

@Fantasier Akh I meant Jimbie.

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier I haven't seen Jim for a while. He must be busy.

MARamezani

19:27

He's busy crying.

Damkerng T.

Jim Reynolds, Taipei, Taiwan

3.2k 2 21

grammar meaning word-choice word-usage meaning-in-context difference american-english

Fantasier

Oh, right.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani Or playing with cats and dogs. :P

Fantasier

I don't see him very often :-) (Or maybe the other way round)

MARamezani

I wonder how many people on ELL with some rep actually don't have grammar as their top tag.

Damkerng T.

19:30

@MARamezani It appears to be a prerequisite of some sort. :D

Fantasier

I seem to recall that at one point snailboat mentioned ELL was like a morphosyntax Q&A site.

Damkerng T.

1

Q: "How is this called" Vs "What is this called"?

Which of the following is more suitable as a title for a picture with aמ arrow toward a part of body's anatomy? How is this called? What is this called"? I need for a picture of a part of the body, that appears without information about this part. So, I need to ask what it is in the...

sentence-structure

Fantasier

11

Q: This site isn't English Morphosyntax Learners

Questions about English should be allowed on ELL. We don't need to restrict our topicality to an arbitrary subset of questions, like those about morphosyntax ("grammar"). In particular, questions about semantics and pragmatics ("meaning") should obviously be on-topic, given that they're major...

discussion

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Cute!

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Hee

MARamezani

19:32

She mentions lots of things.

Just like they.

My god.

Damkerng T.

!

Fantasier

You have a god in your possession. My GOD [ironic] you must be RICH!

Anonymous

My top tag is grammar by a huge margin

Anonymous

ell.stackexchange.com/users/230/snailboat?tab=tags

MARamezani

She could've said grammar instead of morphosyntax...

Typical @snailboat.

Fantasier

19:36

But for some people they're not the same thing.

:-)

Grammar is ambiguous.

MARamezani

@snailboat You mean morphosyntax?

Anonymous

I try to say morphosyntax when I mean morphosyntax

Anonymous

I may not always succeed :-)

MARamezani

Don't worry. Failure brings success.

Keep failing.

®

I meant

Fantasier

@MARamezani I wonder if you could say that about the exams you just finished.

:-)

I'm addicted to typing :-) now.

MARamezani

19:38

I wonder too.

Fantasier

So much influence from this chat.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani A quote that could be useful in your exams: "When all else fails, ... we don't."

:P

MARamezani

Only my pen is useful to me in the exams.

That sentence is usually a lie.

Fantasier

So we could actually take your brain and heart out and you would still be fine?

That scene would be so cool, but maybe a little graphic.

MARamezani

Yep.

Fantasier

19:40

Well not a little.

MARamezani

I'm a chair cyclohexane. We ain't got no heart and that jazz

Damkerng T.

Let's just say, "a lot." :-)

MARamezani

A lot!

I said it! I said it!

Anonymous

@Fantasier I'm sorry! :-)

MARamezani

Where's my money?

Fantasier

19:41

No, he told us to say "a lot," not "A lot!" like that!

@snailboat Don't. I'm perfectly fine with it :-)

MARamezani

Pishhhh.

@Fantasier I'm sorry to say that this is stage two of addiction.

Trust me.

Fantasier

@MARamezani You lost your wallet again? How many times do I have to tell you to keep it in your bag?

MARamezani

I dun research on it.

Fantasier

Oh, you muast [sic] be an expert on this thing then.

MARamezani

@Fantasier How many times? Oh lord!

Fantasier

19:44

@MARamezani Like, a zillion times maybe.

MARamezani

Hullo @SanŚ́́́́Ý́́́́Ś́́́́! Welcome!

@Fantasier You were so loud saying it I didn't hear you.

Hullo @FarArrow!

Fantasier

@MARamezani Are you trying to be poetic? Because I just spotted a paradox.

(Or was it an oxymoron? I'm so terrible at lit)

Damkerng T.

0

A: "How is this called" Vs "What is this called"?

OP's version #1 (using how instead of what is [something] called?) is a typical non-native speaker error. If you compare Google's results for how what called site-specific to ELL and again for site-specific to ELU, you'll see the error often occurs in actual question titles from non-native speake...

Fantasier

(But I'm in a faculty that's focused on studying lit! What am I doing here!??)

Damkerng T.

Wow, 19,700 results on ELU!

5,870 results on ELL.

user116848

19:46

@MARamezani Hello MA!

Fantasier

Hmm... Latin is surprisingly fun.

A lot of inflections but I'm studying it bit by bit, so I should be fine at this pace...

Damkerng T.

@Fantasier Like dead fun? (in more than one sense :-)

Fantasier

@DamkerngT. In both senses I guess. :-P Time will tell

The thing I really love about Latin is probably the fact that it has no articles. Yay.

MARamezani

XxßVIIñ

user116848

Galician detected,

Anonymous

19:54

@Fantasier Japanese too! :-)

Anonymous

Japanese has lots of inflection, too.

Anonymous

Though it's not exactly the same thing

Damkerng T.

I still doubt if the absence of the after as in Cookie Monster's question is really about the law (or legal writing).

Fantasier

I think I'll keep Japanese for later. I've seen my friends at uni studying Japanese... Difficult enough :P (Mainly because they need to remember a lot of Kanjis for tests I think)

I mean, they don't usually complain about grammar or something like that. Only kanji.

MARamezani

πΔπß

Damkerng T.

19:56

@Fantasier Maybe the Japanese dorama help them a lot. ;-)

Oh, probably the anime and manga too.

Fantasier

That's a surprise. I thought drama in Japanese would be durama.

Instead it's do!

Oh, that reminds me, another thing my friends hate is loanwords written in Katakana.

Damkerng T.

Hah! I kinda like it.

You see, Mr. Roboto always speaks in katakana.

(or so I was told)

MARamezani

Τηισ ισ Γλεεκ

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani Is that Latin?

Anonymous

@Fantasier The typical epenthetic vowel in Japanese is /u/. The biggest exception is following /t/ and /d/, in which case it's /o/

Fantasier

19:59

One of my friends once spent a lot of time trying to figure out the meaning of アスファルト.

Damkerng T.

LOL -- Google Translate says: Tiis currency Gleek

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