ELL's Cabin

Damkerng T.

18:00

Oh, no!

I don't know why pazzo deleted the answer.

MARamezani

Pazzo's acting weird.

Damkerng T.

Pazzo and me chatted together this morning, about that question particularly. I hope Pazzo will bring the answer back.

MARamezani

Scrolling up...

@Dam maybe he wasn't satisfied.

Damkerng T.

Possibly. Dunno

MARamezani

Ah...Only if I get to 2k and see deleted answers and funny spams...Aaargh!

0

Q: What does "Trash everything you think you know" mean in this context?

Firstly sorry for my bad English. I'm translating an article about SMS Marketing. But I don't know what does Trash everything you think you know mean in the following context? First time customers who comb through these helpful resources observe a better ROI from their SMS marketing campai...

meaning-in-context

Another Iranian!

Damkerng T.

18:14

Oh!

I think it's answerable by using dictionaries.

MARamezani

Maybe...I was hitting Macmillan.

Damkerng T.

Or else, it must be about sentence parsing.

MARamezani

Nope.

google.com/…

It's answerable by even Google!

Let alone dictionaries.

chat.stackexchange.com/users/135450

Interesting how my total rep is round.

Damkerng T.

:D

MARamezani

Hehe! Your total rep is 14101.

Damkerng T.

18:19

LOL

14141 would be even funnier!

MARamezani

Whoa! Bows down to @Dam

isprimenumber.com/prime/14101

Damkerng T.

59 * 239!

MARamezani

I'm feeling jealous. I have to go and downvote you somewhere.

Damkerng T.

Oh, no! -- LOL

1

Q: What is the meaning of this sentence about inversion of control?

This sentence is very twisted. Can anyone break it down? It's not "inversion of control" if the control over whether there's inversion of control is not inverted

sentence-meaning

MARamezani

Your top answer is very stupid!

There!

Now you aren't that prime.

Damkerng T.

18:25

Hmm... how can we teach people to parse sentences!

Wait, what?

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. We have to install a compiler.

On their heads.

Using saws.

Damkerng T.

o_O

Is that how?

@MARamezani Um... thanks!

103 * 137!

MARamezani

Why me little!

@Jim would recommend it.

@DamkerngT. S*it! What?!

Darn 14000! A lot of prime numbers there!

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

MARamezani

Whatever!

I'll be prime...

Damkerng T.

18:31

Hee

You sure will be!

Anonymous

0

Q: Question-tag structure for "needn't have +p.p

How to form the tag question for sentence like this: She needn't have studied English.

tag-questions

MARamezani

@snailboat Hullo!

Did she?

Anonymous

Many native speakers never use needn't, and among those that do, I think making a tag question with it is pretty rare

Damkerng T.

Hmm... I'm not that familiar with needn't, but I guess it's She needn't ~~have studied~~ study English.

Anonymous

If forced, I'd go with "right?"

MARamezani

18:32

@DamkerngT. Nah...I think it's fine.

@snailboat I'll go with no?

Anonymous

It's a nice invariant tag :-)

MARamezani

Yep. Or yup.

Damkerng T.

Needn't with a past perfect makes my head spinning! -- Whiirr!

Anonymous

I think "no?" clashes with "needn't"

MARamezani

Clash that!

You're right.

@snailboat Whoa!

Damkerng T.

18:35

But suppose that needn't have studied is okay, I think need she is natural.

MARamezani

@Dam her total rep is very round!

:O

Anonymous

Though I don't really have needn't in my idiolect to begin with

Damkerng T.

Oh!?

MARamezani

48100.

My god.

Damkerng T.

48100 rep pts!

MARamezani

18:36

It only gets round like that in a purple moon.

Hullo @Suade! Welcome to the chatroom!

Can you talk?

Suade

Hello everybody

Damkerng T.

Hello!

Suade

I am new here

MARamezani

Oh, you can!

Yay!

Damkerng T.

Welcome to the room!

Suade

18:37

thanks

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. No way! I said that first!

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani The more the merrier!

MARamezani

The merrier the fairier!

Damkerng T.

picking up PEU...

Suade

I have been studying English language since too long time and I hope I could master it soon

MARamezani

18:39

@DamkerngT. I just made that up!

Suade

The merrier the fairier! this is new expression to me I am familiar with The more the merrier!

MARamezani

@Suade NICE!

Anonymous

I speak American English, and we'd use lexical need instead: "She didn't need to study English, did she?" Or: "She didn't have to study English, did she?"

MARamezani

Damkerng T.

@Suade Our @MARamezani is very good at making things up! :P

Anonymous

18:40

@Suade The merrier the fairier is non-standard

MARamezani

Too good...tastes sour.

@snailboat Good!

Damkerng T.

Ahh... PEU has need not have, but no question tag mentioned.

MARamezani

@Suade Do you hope to meet chat in the future?

Suade

I asked a question about how to make the tag question for sentence like this . She needn't have studied English

MARamezani

Well, I think you need to ask that from Shakespeare.

@Shakespeare!

@Shakespeare @Sua has a question.

Damkerng T.

18:44

9 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

But suppose that needn't have studied is okay, I think need she is natural.

"She needn't have studied English, need she?"

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. Maybe.

Damkerng T.

(I speculate that along the lines of modal verbs + have.)

MARamezani

Archaic needs an archaic response.

Suade

is it grammatically correct to use need in tag question it sounds strange for me

Damkerng T.

"He wouldn't have done it, would he?"

@Suade I think it's the only choice because you're using need as an auxiliary verb.

I'm sure snailboat will add something really useful soon.

Anonymous

18:46

It's definitely unusual to use need in a question tag

MARamezani

gingersoftware.com/content/grammar-rules/verbs/modal-verbs

Is needn't a modal? Scratches head

Anonymous

When you don't know how to form a question tag for one reason or another, you can use a general tag like ", right?" that doesn't change form based on the rest of the sentence

MARamezani

OR NO?.

YOU FORGOT IT @SNAIL!

I'M TOTALLY SHOUTING! THIS ISN'T MY CAPS LOCK! OK I'm fine now. Continue.

Damkerng T.

I think the tag ", no?" is the opposite to ", yes?"

MARamezani

Don't think. It is.

Anonymous

18:49

Right, need can be either a modal auxiliary or a lexical verb, and when you use it as needn't or need not it's an auxiliary

MARamezani

Aha.

Damkerng T.

Though ", yes?" means approximately the same as ", right?"

Anonymous

Let's ignore the non-standard question tags like ", no?" for now

MARamezani

And that's why no? confronts right?.

As they're the common forms.

Anonymous

It's better to learn the standard ones first

MARamezani

18:49

@snailboat NOOOOOOO!

Suade

thanks for helping me..

Anonymous

For many speakers need is always a lexical verb, and these speakers say doesn't need to instead of needn't and didn't need to instead of needn't have

Damkerng T.

I just expressed what I thought. I could be wrong since I'm not really familiar with needn't have.

MARamezani

@Suade People in chat, excluding me, are really friendly.

You'll get used to me though.

I'm so cool.

Suade

you are friendly too..:)

Anonymous

18:54

"You'll get used to me" perhaps? :-)

Damkerng T.

Finding some basic stuff to neutralize MAR's acidity. :P

MARamezani

@snailboat Give me a break...I'm fighting with someone else elsewhere!

Anonymous

Oh no!

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. Can you?

Anonymous

So combative!

Damkerng T.

18:56

@MARamezani I still can't find a good one. :D

MARamezani

That's because nothing can neutralize me.

Except...

EXCEPT...

Suade

what is the best way to improve my English language quickly ..

MARamezani

Drumrolls

@Suade Improve it quickly. Duh!

Damkerng T.

@Suade There are many factors involved.

Anonymous

@Suade I'm not sure, but I'd suggest using English as much as possible

Damkerng T.

18:57

Your goal, your learning style, your environment, your time available, etc.

MARamezani

CHAT HERE!

What is a better way to use your English effectively?

Having a snail vehicle teach you anything for free.

Anonymous

I'm a native speaker of English, but I'm learning some other languages :-)

MARamezani

Or everything.

Suade

Is there anybody learning Arabic?

Anonymous

I'm not at present

MARamezani

19:00

ME!

Damkerng T.

Neither am I.

MARamezani

Raises hands

Suade

@MARamezani that is great

MARamezani

I'm right and left here.

Anonymous

It has a reputation for being a rather challenging language for speakers of English

MARamezani

19:01

@snailboat I guess so.

Suade

it is easy I promise..

MARamezani

@Suade Native?

Suade

yes

MARamezani

Yay! I just earned myself a free tutor.

Suade

I hope I can help

MARamezani

19:03

@Suade Later maybe...

Are you from Saudi Arabia?

Suade

No

MARamezani

Iraq?

Suade

o

MARamezani

O?

Suade

No I am from libya

MARamezani

19:04

Ahh!

Still some hours away.

Dang!

@Suade Now I hereby introduce you to chat regs:

Chat regs, @Suade, @Suade, chat regs.

I'm MAR, the coolest guy in the universe.

16, a nerdy chemist, and an apparently chair cyclohexane

Meet @Dam...A robot that always assigns something.

Or has his cat look after him.

Damkerng T.

raising tail

MARamezani

34251663453627 years old, a techie, and a robot.

Suade

Are you chemist @MARamezani

MARamezani

@Suade Quasi-chemist.

Meet @Snail or, still looking for something to pick on us about.

Suade

I studied chemistry at college

MARamezani

19:09

She has 4352535666 snails.

@Suade :O YAYAYAYAYA!

She's older than the tree of life, is a linguist, and loves tmesis.

Meet out do|tic weirdo: @JimReynolds

An alien who sucks life outta me whenever he can.

Older than ten times @Dam's age.

Looking for a way to terminate life on Earth.

He's soooo jealous.

That's about the regs today @suade. Thanks for watching our boring show with patience.

Damkerng T.

applauds

MARamezani

Poor Law! He gets his bizarre questions downvoted by a confused learner usually.

@Suade Organochem?

Anonymous

I'm not trying to pick on anyone

MARamezani

Yeah.

Social media.

Typical!

Anonymous

I'm just trying to be helpful

MARamezani

19:17

You are! TV shows are deceiving!

@snailboat BTW I was kidding!

Damkerng T.

I somewhat doubt that grammar or style discussions from ca. 150 years ago are on topic in a English Language Learners forum. Have you considered asking the guys over at ELU? — Stephie 4 mins ago

Aww...

MARamezani

You are helpful!

@DamkerngT. Hmm.

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Aww... Don't worry. We all know MAr was just kidding!

MARamezani

He has a point!

@DamkerngT. MAr wasn't kidding.

MAR was.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani But what fun would it be if English had no Shakespeare's? :-)

MARamezani

19:23

@DamkerngT. Then we wouldn

't

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani Sorry for typing from iPad!

MARamezani

Brought to you by typo department, dammit!

Anonymous

I know, but "I was kidding" doesn't work there

MARamezani

Where?

What? Why?

Anonymous

Because the original joke would only be funny if it were in some way true, so it only works as humor with the presupposition that I really do pick on y'all

Anonymous

19:27

So it doesn't work as humor

MARamezani

Scratching head

Anonymous

That sort of joke isn't

MARamezani

@snailboat What is the original joke?

Anonymous

It's okay, I know you were just trying to be funny :-)

MARamezani

This isn't good. We have a spam left back at chem that has been there for four hours

Anonymous

19:29

Link it in chat so it can get six spam flags

Anonymous

And it'll get automatically removed

Damkerng T.

Phew!

MARamezani

@snailboat Heh...I succeeded in hacking @Suade mind.

@snailboat It's in chem.SE. And The Periodic Table is well...

Anonymous

@MARamezani Where?

MARamezani

The chemistry chat.

Anonymous

19:31

...More specifically? :-)

MARamezani

Apparently Martin's having a party for a week.

And our chat's structure has collapsed.

Anonymous

I don't see the spam

MARamezani

HERE, WITH ALL MY LOVE AND RESPECT:

-6

Q: kncncs kkslslf jfsjlskjlf

jknknznkznkljojn hdadkja,nas hjj

equilibrium

:}

I wonder what those people get from spamming.

WOO! Which one of you guys haz a chem account?!

Anonymous

Oh, it doesn't look like a spam

Anonymous

It looks like they asked a question, then "deleted" it by replacing it with gibberish

MARamezani

19:33

It's promotional content.

Anonymous

So it would more properly be called vandalism, I think

MARamezani

It still promotes content.

Lamart

Hallo Capt and Vehicle!

MARamezani

@Lamart Hullo soldier!

You have an account on ELL!

Yay!

Damkerng T.

Hello!

Lamart

19:34

Hello Robot!

MARamezani

Thank you and +1 — Lamart 2 days ago

Damkerng T.

Hello!

MARamezani

We don't usually post simple thank yous as comments.

Lamart

Why?

Anonymous

Because reading "thank you" doesn't help future readers

MARamezani

19:37

^ That. ^

Anonymous

Personally, I think saying thank you is fine, but it's sort of how things are done on SE

Lamart

@snailboat Do you mind if I call you Vehicle? Or you can choose something else.

Anonymous

You can call me that if you like :-)

Lamart

Hello@Catija

Hello@Suade

MARamezani

@Lamart Call her SNAILOR!

She likes it.

Anonymous

19:39

Sometimes I actually do say thank you if I feel like it's needed to lighten up the tone of what I'm saying a little bit

Anonymous

@MARamezani frowny

Suade

مرحبا

MARamezani

To me?

Lamart

?

MARamezani

Oh, that's an auto message.

@Lamart Means well done.

@Suade Wait! For calling snailor snailor?

Lamart

19:40

It means Hello

Anonymous

I thought Suade was saying hello

Suade

No it doeesn't mean well done

MARamezani

Yeah...But could also mean well done...

Wa...it!

مرحبا بک had some linguisty thing that made it turn from Well done to Hullo

It's called ایهام in Persian.

Anonymous

Interjectionalization?

MARamezani

I'm looking for the English variant.

Damkerng T.

19:42

language is hard! ... A robot had a flash of that thought in his mind.

MARamezani

@snailboat No no...Something way more sophisticated.

Anonymous

Well, interjectionalization is when something becomes an interjection.

Anonymous

Īhām

Īhām in Persian poetry is a literary device in which an author uses a word, or an arrangement of words, that can be read in several ways. Each of the meanings may be logically sound, equally true and intended. == Definitions == In the 12th century, Rashid al-Din Vatvat defined īhām as follows: "Īhām in Persian means to create doubt. This is a literary device, also called takhyīl [to make one suppose and fancy], whereby a writer (dabīr), in prose, or a poet, in verse, employs a word with two different meanings, one direct and immediate (qarīb) and the other remote and strange (gharīb), in such a...

MARamezani

Whatever. The most important thing is that مرحبا does mean hullo.

@snailboat No.

Lamart

Veh, are you a teacher?

Anonymous

19:44

I'm just a snailboat.

MARamezani

It's when something means two things at the same time.

And one of its types is historical something thingy.

Lamart

You are a moderator!!!

Anonymous

I'm a moderator on Japanese.SE

Anonymous

On ELL I'm a regular user

MARamezani

@Lamart Be careful where you're stepping...

@Suade you know what I'm talking about?

I dunno if it exists in Arabic, but it must be there.

Lamart

19:46

Veh, you have 23k rep!!! So much!!

Anonymous

People use double meanings in English fairly often

Anonymous

There's a term, double entendre, but it's typically used when one of the meanings is sexual in nature, so it's not appropriate here

MARamezani

@snailboat I've noticed it.

Anonymous

Though it doesn't have to be used that way

Lamart

@snailboat But on clicking on your name, it says you are a moderator.

MARamezani

19:47

@Lamart It's not so much when you have tmesis on your side.

@Lamart A mod in one SE site is a mod in the whole chat.

Lamart

It has that diamond/rhombus/kite

Anonymous

That's true, I'm a chat moderator

MARamezani

And a strict one in that. Be careful @Lamart...

:}

Anonymous

But most of the time I hope not to do any chat moderation :-)

Catija

@Lamart Hi :)

Lamart

19:49

Rob fell asleep?

MARamezani

@Dam @Dam @Dam

Oooh, can you guys guess what animated film this is?

Lamart

@Catija Can I call you Cat?

Anonymous

I can't

Anonymous

I haven't seen that film

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani Ah, a talking cat!

Suade

19:51

Is Persian your mother language @MARamezani

Catija

@Lamart Sure.

MARamezani

@Suade No.

Catija

@MARamezani I cheated (reverse image search) but I wouldn't have ever gotten it. It's not a game I'm familiar with.

Lamart

So we have a Capt with a Vehicle and a Robotic Cat. Great!

MARamezani

Dang it!

@Lamart You forgot a chair cyclohexane.

@Suade my mother language is a dialect of Turkish.

I live in Tabriz, East Azerbaijan province.

Anonymous

19:53

It's very common for greetings to be grammaticalized

MARamezani

I only study Arabic at school,... With some extra study by myself.

Anonymous

They lose their literal meaning (semantic bleaching), are reduced in pronunciation (phonological erosion)

Lamart

@snailboat I am sure you are a teacher.

Anonymous

For example, English goodbye comes from God be with ye

MARamezani

Yes.

Anonymous

19:54

But most speakers today are unaware of the origin of this word

MARamezani

@Lamart She is! She teaches me words I forget the next quarter.

Anonymous

So does it really mean "God be with ye" when people say "Goodbye"? Not really―it's lost its literal meaning (semantic bleaching)

MARamezani

BTW people that image was from

Michael D. M. Dryden, Canada

6.3k 7 29

electrochemistry everyday-chemistry organic-chemistry physical-chemistry electrolysis homework biochemistry

(A PhD in computational chemistry, or at least, he has an MA)

Anonymous

And it's been reduced in pronunciation so that it's no longer recognizable as the complete phrase

Damkerng T.

Ahh... it's now computational everything.

Catija

19:56

Oh, so it's not trivia, you're actually trying to figure it out?
It's from Ratchet and Clank, a video game series.

MARamezani

:O

Chemists. Are. Weird!!!!!

@Catija UNBELIEVABLE!

Anonymous

Japanese konnichiwa 'Hello' is reduced from sentences like konnichi wa go-kigen ikaga desu ka?

Anonymous

Literally you could say it means 'this day' (marked as a topic)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat I learned about Goodspeed because of The Rock.

Anonymous

But when it's used as a greeting, it doesn't have that meaning anymore

Lamart

19:58

Veh, you are Japanese?

MARamezani

@snailboat I see my mistake has given you chances to prove points!

Anonymous

Even though the konnichiwa part is recognizable

Damkerng T.

@snailboat That's really long!

Anonymous

I am not Japanese

Anonymous

The only language I speak natively is English :-)

Anonymous

19:59

I'm afraid that even though I've been studying Japanese for about eighteen years, I'm still not very good!

Lamart

How many languages do you know? 10?

Anonymous

Dunno

MARamezani

@snailboat At all!

Anonymous

That's a hard question to answer

MARamezani

@Lamart 6000.

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