ELL's Cabin

pazzo

00:08

Hi

Damkerng T.

Hi!

pazzo

I wrote an answer to ell.stackexchange.com/questions/56018/…

Damkerng T.

Yes, I read that!

pazzo

But now I am not satisfied with it. Because I can't tell if the singer is singing Whaddya waiting for? or WhaTTaya waiting for?

She's English, so its possible she's keeping the T...

Damkerng T.

Here is my analysis.

32 mins ago, by Damkerng T.

I think she meant to sing "waddar you waiting for", but a) her /r/ is basically not there in this one (/r/ is there in other occurrences of "What're you waiting for?" in the song); b) she rounds her lips before /y/ in "you" and this co-occurs with the schwa of "dar". Results? This "waddar" of hers sounds like "waddo", as our OP's heard. (I think this is also related to our case that Jim heard my "neural" as "neuro".)

I think she was trying to blend American /r/ into her vocalization.

pazzo

00:12

hmmm. very interesting analysis.

!

Did you put it as an answer yet?

Damkerng T.

No, I saw yours, and I'm satisfied. :-)

pazzo

Hmmm... maybe I should concentrate on her lip-rounding more? :)

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

It's hard to imagine how she actually vocalized it. I mean, we can't see her lips when she was recording the song.

pazzo

Yeah but what do you hear?

I've listened so much I am hearing what I want to hear...

Damkerng T.

I heard as I mentioned in my analysis.

This one at 1:17 is the most ambiguous one, imho.

Other "What're you waiting for?" of hers are easier to catch.

pazzo

00:17

yeah it was that instance, I was listening with the song in the background and suddenly thought, wait she just sang "WhaTTayou"

Damkerng T.

nods -- That's what I heard too. Something more like a schwa which sounds a bit like the "o" vowel of "do".

So I repeated it, and came up with my analysis (why this "d"+schwa sounds like "do").

Maybe I can try listening to her song with my headphones (which allow me to pick up more subtleties)...

On my headphones, I can hear her /r/ of "waddar you waiding for", but it's so subtle.

pazzo

Is it even possible to say WhaTTa(r)you? ... Of course, I ask that as an American, who would not pronounce that with a T :)

Damkerng T.

Oh, I see. I think she wanted to make a flap-t.

I imagine her tongue glides quickly from [ɾ] to [ə] to [ɹ] to [j].

([ɾ] = flap-t)

Because the time is too short in that verse, I think she had to squeeze everything, so [ɹ] is hardly there, and [j] partially coalesces with [ə].

pazzo

00:33

yeah I am with you there, that stuff all ellides

Damkerng T.

Maybe if that verse was longer by a few milliseconds, we would be able to hear the [ɹ] more clearly. :-)

nods

I still haven't watched that movie. :D

pazzo

ah, me neither; ive no interest

Damkerng T.

Oh! I have. :P

It made a buzz at Oscars anyway. :D

pazzo

<-- rarely watches the Oscars

Damkerng T.

Understood!

pazzo

00:45

Oh is @Jim Reynolds here or not?

Damkerng T.

His avatar is here, but I think he's not here.

Perhaps not until a few hours later.

pazzo

He's in Taiwan?

Damkerng T.

He's an American in Taiwan.

pazzo

Like an American in Paris...

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

Indeed!

pazzo

00:47

And you are in Thailand?

Damkerng T.

Yes, I'm Thai.

pazzo

I thought I remembered correctly. I guess I'm going to listen to the song in my headphones, FWIW....

Damkerng T.

nods

Does "Ago December it snowed forty four inches in Buffalo" in your profile means that you're in Buffalo?

Oh, Austin. I watch concerts from Austin on WPR sometimes.

Umm... I mean WPT (video.wpt.org).

Gotta go. See you later. Bye!

Anonymous

02:56

@DamkerngT. Hmm, it's ungrammatical, but I think it's supposed to be an example of English rather than something directly related to the user

Anonymous

03:44

Anonymous

This is my new snail! :-)

Damkerng T.

Aww!

Looks like a levitating snail. :-)

I am not very sure, but I think from is a good option, and I think using through there is not correct. — Man_From_India 12 hours ago

I guess that Man_From_India must've thought that it's not about money saving tips, but it's the tip money itself! (I thought that myself, too. Is Alex a waiter?)

@snailboat Oh, I forgot to ask: What's the name of this little one?

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I'm still not sure! Maybe Pliny :-)

Damkerng T.

Oh, nice name!

What does it mean?

Anonymous

Pliny the Elder

Gaius Plinius Secundus (AD 23 – August 25, AD 79), better known as Pliny the Elder (/ˈplɪni/), was a Roman author, naturalist, and natural philosopher, as well as naval and army commander of the early Roman Empire, and personal friend of the emperor Vespasian. Spending most of his spare time studying, writing or investigating natural and geographic phenomena in the field, he wrote an encyclopedic work, Naturalis Historia, which became a model for all other encyclopedias. Pliny the Younger, his nephew, wrote of him in a letter to the historian Tacitus: For my part I deem those blessed to whom,...

Damkerng T.

03:51

Ahh

Oh, I pronounced the name wrong!

Anonymous

04:07

@DamkerngT. There's another common garden snail called the Roman snail

Anonymous

They aren't common around here though

Damkerng T.

What do they look like, these Roman snails?

Hmm... (got some pictures on Google)

Anonymous

Fairly similar! :-)

Anonymous

That's from Wikipedia

Anonymous

04:09

They have the same general shape but they're a little bigger and their coloring and such is different

Damkerng T.

I thought they might've carried the Eagle or something. :P

Anonymous

You know, giant snails are a common motif in fantasy artwork

Anonymous

google.com/search?q=giant+fantasy+snail&tbm=isch

Anonymous

I don't know if I've seen any snails carrying eagles

Damkerng T.

I found this in my Roman snail search results:

@snailboat Roman ones, probably. :P

Anonymous

04:13

@DamkerngT. Oh, wow :-)

Damkerng T.

@snailboat Gigantic snails!

Loch Snail!

0

Q: 'except if' vs 'if not'

[ODO:] unless {conjunction} = Except if (used to introduce the case in which a statement being made is not true or valid) Source: p 139, Introduction to Logic (2 ed, 2010) by Harry J. Gensler (see Linguistics or ELU) “Unless” is also equivalent to “if not”... 1. The above two defini...

Oh, no! (I feel sorry for LawA51PC that they couldn't get it intuitively.)

Anonymous

04:49

I don't think the approach Law Area is taking to language is especially productive

Anonymous

But to each their own, I suppose

Anonymous

0

Q: Fall/Come Under Investigation

I have a question about "come under" and "fall under". These: He came under suspicion for fraud. He fell under suspicion for fraud. are standard English. Could I then write these: He came under investigation for fraud. He fell under investigation for fraud....

grammar meaning usage

Anonymous

I guess investigations don't loom over stuff like suspicion does!

Anonymous

But we do say under investigation, so it's a reasonable question

Anonymous

I don't really have an explanation, I guess

Anonymous

04:58

(I'm sure someone else can write one, though :-)

Anonymous

05:18

Hey, contrary to my intuition, there are corpus results for come under investigation!

Anonymous

Of course, they're much less common.

Anonymous

> He had come under investigation by postal and legal authorities as early as February, but they appeared to be making little progress in their efforts.

Anonymous

I wonder if that's a blend of be under investigation and come under suspicion like the one meatie is making

Anonymous

It sounds strange to me

Anonymous

I think under investigation is typically a predicative complement, most commonly as a complement of be but with other verbs as well

Anonymous

05:23

Hmm, be under investigation is fine, but become under investigation is strange

Anonymous

Maybe because it's something people actively do? was placed under investigation

Anonymous

Ahh, I can't explain any of this. :-)

Anonymous

Well, that's okay.

Jim Reynolds

05:57

@snailboat Come (to be placed under) investigation.

Or come into the spotlight (?)

Anonymous

Snails are fun to watch

Anonymous

It's very relaxing

Anonymous

They take their time :-)

Anonymous

The little one is surprisingly fast, though.

Anonymous

I've already forgotten about that came under investigation stuff.

Anonymous

06:16

Snails have come into the spotlight :-)

Anonymous

1

Q: How to intuit 'unless'?

I already know, and so ask NOT about, the meanings or proofs of: A unless B = A, except if B = A if not B = Either A or B. I ask only for intuition; do NOT prove formally or use truth tables. My problem: I want to avoid memorisation. So whenever I see unless, I always need to pause for 5 mi...

reasoning

Anonymous

Hmm, I don't think doing extra analysis is the solution to that problem

Anonymous

I think Law Area just needs to practice

Anonymous

Until it becomes natural and not something that requires thought

user62015

10:11

Hi!

Freddy

@user62015 Hola

user62015

I want to ask you one question.

When you use 'etc' we always use '.' right?

Freddy

yes

user62015

So after the '.' we should use the capital letter?

Freddy

"." is used because it is short form of "et cetera"

it is not used as full stop

user62015

10:15

So we should use a small letter?

Freddy

Yes if it is not last word of sentence

user62015

Okay.

I understood thanks.

Freddy

your welcome :)

MARamezani

11:39

etc.

MARamezani

13:17

Wow! It's really deserted here!

Freddy

yup

hola

MARamezani

Hullo!

Freddy

@MARamezani Due you like programing?

MARamezani

Depends.

Freddy

On what

MARamezani

13:24

On depending.

Freddy

depending on what

MARamezani

It's, in short, depending on the depending on the dependence of the dependent independence of ...

Freddy

oh cool :)

your dependence on depending is cool if dependence of your depending is independent of dependence

MARamezani

This phenomenon is referred to as dependensificationicizationiticizationificationism.

@DamkerngT. CONTEXT!

I think she says the pin though.

Freddy

and study of this phenomenon is called dependensificationicizationiticizationificationising

MARamezani

13:32

We're getting to great depths.

Freddy

Yes soon there will articles on this room's achievement. We will be famous all over the world.

MARamezani

Aren't we already?

I thought there was a film about us.

Namely, Hotel Do|tivania.

Freddy

not that way. We will be famous for our contribution to English language

MARamezani

English is already thanking us.

BTW @Fred have you studied organochem?

Freddy

Now whole world will thank us

nope

MARamezani

13:40

What about in school?

Freddy

We have organic not organo. I think they are different, isn't it?

MARamezani

Organochem is the IUPAC name for organic chemistry.

Sheeeeeeeeeeesh.

Freddy

Ohh okay thanks for sharing secret

Yup i do learn that

MARamezani

How deep have you gone?

Do you study reaction mechanisms?

Freddy

Yes but basics, like markonikov and aniti-markonikov. I think we will have it in more detail this semester.

MARamezani

13:45

Hmm.

Do you study IUPAC nomenclature?

Freddy

yes

MARamezani

OK OK.

What exactly are the topics you study?

Name them.

5 pts.

Freddy

Solutions(currently learning), electrochemistry, organic, solid state, p block(most boring)

wbu?

MARamezani

Oh, in 10th we have 1) Atomic theory 2) Periodic trends 3) Ionic compounds 4) Covalent compounds 5) Organochem

@Freddy What topics do you study in organochem?

Freddy

Haloalkane and haloarene compounds, alcohol, Phenol and ether compound. 2 different chapters for all this, i will learn this semester.

MARamezani

13:52

Halorene?

You mean alkenyl halides?

@Freddy This semester you're talking about = 11th?

Freddy

12th

11th is over

MARamezani

O.O

I'm having my 10th over.

Freddy

haloarene is Aryl halide

it is aromatic compounds don't know much more

MARamezani

Haloarene! You typoed back there...

Freddy

yes you are year younger

yes I did

MARamezani

13:55

@Freddy You're gonna study haloarenes in this semester?

Freddy

yes a whole chapter on it

MARamezani

You're screwed.

Freddy

you have very good syllabus. Actually your 10th stuff i had learned in 11th

MARamezani

solid state...Tell me more about it.

You study Bravais lattices?

@Freddy [Emoticon for bragging]

Freddy

emoticon

Solid state on chemistry point of view. Different crystalline structure, arrangements, semiconductors and much more

@JimReynolds hola

@MARamezani What you meant by "you are screwed"?

MARamezani

14:02

@Freddy It means you're dead. Slanguage.

Freddy

I mean why?

MARamezani

Because you'll be studying aromatic + reaction mechanism.

@Freddy Hmm...

Oh, BTW I've studied the books for 11th and the 12th grade.

Freddy

I know but it will be easier because i will only have MCQ's.

MARamezani

I mean our 11th and 12th, of course.

@Freddy Em Cee what?

Freddy

multiple choice question

MARamezani

14:05

Oh!

Freddy

Is there different blocks(s p d f) in 11th and 12th?

MARamezani

In our 11th, we'll be hit with 1)Stoichiometry: A little more advanced 2) Thermochemistry 3) Solutions and colligative properties.

Not much organochem.

:(

Freddy

Theremo is my favourite is physical chemistry

Orgo is best because you only need to understand least mugging up

MARamezani

In our 12th, we have to deal with 1) Kinetics 2) Chemical Equilibrium 3) Acid & Bases: Different theories and 4) Redox

Freddy

Okay equilibrium is also good to many numerical problems.

MARamezani

14:08

@Freddy Figures out, many students love high school thermodynamics because it doesn't get scary.

I mean,

many students that actually like some part of their lesson.

I pretty much guess @Fred you haven't seen the aggressive part of thermochem.

Hullo @Jim!

Freddy

I am glad there is no periodic table. You are lucky

nope only 3 laws

MARamezani

@Freddy There is.

@Freddy And a hell comes outta those three laws.

Or rather, breaks loose.

Freddy

that chapter will screw you trust me

MARamezani

@Freddy There is atomic theory and periodic trends.

10th.

What is it about periodic table that you study?

Freddy

Different blocks one by one in detail

MARamezani

14:12

Tell me some details about those details.

Freddy

uses, chemical properties, physical properties, trends, exceptions, allotropes :')

of each group

MARamezani

S*it!

Somehow looks like our periodic trends, but worse.

Freddy

Yes

I need to go

bye

MARamezani

We study trends and exceptions and chemical properties.

TTYL!

@Jim now you can talk.

The scary part of the speech disappears.

Damkerng T.

15:40

@MARamezani Well, you're right!

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. I'm always right!

Damkerng T.

LOL

MARamezani

Hullo!

Damkerng T.

Hullo!

MARamezani

How have you been doing?

Damkerng T.

15:41

I've been doing great!

MARamezani

Chat's been lonely without you posting random questions.

Damkerng T.

How was your exam?

@MARamezani Aww

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. What exam?

Bio?

Damkerng T.

You mentioned something 400 pages.

MARamezani

That was math, yesterday.

It was biology today morning.

Damkerng T.

15:42

Oh, so it's the exam season? :-)

MARamezani

I somehow thought I already typed was there

@DamkerngT. Just before the exam season.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani It could've happened to anyone.

@MARamezani Oh, so the math yesterday and biology today don't count?

MARamezani

Our school is basically killing us with exam preparations that are worse than the exams themselves.

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

MARamezani

ell.stackexchange.com/questions?sort=featured

Damkerng T.

15:44

Apparently, you've survived the prep, so far.

MARamezani

Noticed that Study.English.Well's account exists no more.

Damkerng T.

Oh, no!

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. Well, I wouldn't call it surviving...

But I'll hit a 95 in math and 90-95 in bio.

Not too much for a nerd.

Damkerng T.

Their questions are actually interesting, even though a bit localized.

@MARamezani That's near perfect!

MARamezani

I scored a measly 92.5 in chemistry.

:(

Damkerng T.

15:47

Umm... are you sure that's measly?

MARamezani

But all my mistakes were arbitrary stupid thingies...If we can actually call them mistakes.

Like I did the comma in naming organic compounds in the IUPAC way the English way around.

@DamkerngT. I'm the chemistry god of our school, and our school is among the ten top schools in Iran.

So, 92.5 is very "measly".

Damkerng T.

Aww...

MARamezani

[Emoticon for bragging even when I fail]

Damkerng T.

Hehe!

MARamezani

Answered an ELL question today.

Damkerng T.

15:49

I guess sometimes it happens to everyone in tests. To be human is to err.

MARamezani

And a chemistry question.

Damkerng T.

@MARamezani Yay!

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. I'm not a human.

Damkerng T.

LOL

MARamezani

My chemistry answer is rather...Well, I personally love it!

2

Q: Why does Thallium form TlF and TlF3 but aluminium only forms AlF3?

Does this have something to do with the inert pair effect?

physical-chemistry inorganic-chemistry quantum-chemistry halides

> ...provided by Sidgwick...

Damkerng T.

15:51

@MARamezani Thallium says, Thank you!

MARamezani

This is too awesome to be the wording of a student.

@DamkerngT. Meh...I got the answer with Google searches and understanding a Wikipedia article.

Damkerng T.

Yeah, but I think the "why" part is yours.

MARamezani

The ELL answer is about conjunctive adverbs...Woo I'd forgotten that cool name.

Damkerng T.

At least you after reading the article.

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. We can say that...

Ahh...The random downvote striker back at chemistry is back!

Damkerng T.

15:56

Oh!

MARamezani

Someone's been randomly downvoting a lot of high rep users in chemistry.

Hullo @Catija!

I see you recently have been active on ELL!

Damkerng T.

Hmm... lemme think... Are both although and nevertheless conjunctive adverbs?

MARamezani

Keep up the awesome work.

Damkerng T.

Morning! @Catija

MARamezani

@DamkerngT. I thought so.

Damkerng T.

15:58

Traditionally, although is a conjunction, and nevertheless is an adverb.

Catija

Hi guys :)

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