ELL's Cabin - 2015-09-11 (page 2 of 3)

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inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

8:01 PM

@snailboat No. I just restarted the laptop.

Anonymous

Oh. Well then, I have no idea what happened and oh my god, what did they do to this dictionary?

Anonymous

user image

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat The explanation is there, above the message.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Keyword searches will probably have some overlap, by the way.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat Is that . . . ? !!!

@snailboat Yes, but should we do instead?

Start by ID, oldest question to newest question?

Anonymous

8:06 PM

Well, you can generate lists of relevant question ids, cull duplicates, and post the lists on meta as question links, like I did in this question: meta.ell.stackexchange.com/q/1077/230

Anonymous

Each list of questions can be posted as an answer, and then a user can comment to say "I'm taking this list." Maybe :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But that's just 27.

Anonymous

Well, sure, but that doesn't mean it would have taken me any longer if it were 5000.

Anonymous

It just would have had to have been posted in multiple posts :-)

Anonymous

Then they can comment again to say "I finished this list".

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

8:08 PM

@snailboat That's a good idea. But meta isn't the choice. There are many other questions that won't let this get the attention it deserves. I'll do it in TCE room.

Anonymous

Then answered containing completed lists can be deleted.

Anonymous

I don't think chat will scale.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

?

Anonymous

And it's not about attention. You'd be linking to the lists from chat anyway.

Anonymous

So it shouldn't matter.

Anonymous

8:09 PM

At any rate, do it how you like :-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

This is a good idea. I wanted the work to be mine, and this way it'll be.

Anonymous

But I'd avoid any method that gives multiple people the same question, ideally.

Anonymous

One nice thing about meta is that if you post a big list of links, they'll be clickable. Links don't work in multi-line messages in chat.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hullo @JEL! Welcome to the chatroom!

@snailboat Hmm, good point.

@snailboat This photo caught my eye before anything else!

It's a dictionary!?

Anonymous

8:15 PM

It says 国語辞典 on the side.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Of course, if you do it search-based, you don't have to make lists or post them anywhere, and you can do it all from chat without a meta post. So that works, too.

Poor little (maybe not so little) dictionary!

Anonymous

Not as little as it used to be. Poor dictionary ate too much!

LOL

@snailboat Could look weird.

Anonymous

国語辞典 kokugo jiten is literally "national language dictionary". Japanese is still referred to today as 国語 kokugo in certain contexts.

Anonymous

8:19 PM

@DamkerngT. It's too late! :-)

Ah!

Anonymous

But you can downvote if you feel it's not appropriate for the site.

Anonymous

One problem is that many questions can't have good titles.

Anonymous

That's because they aren't good questions.

Anonymous

Or, if I can remove the value judgment from it:

8:20 PM

I think you could add that you want something that looks like this, but with the text for JLSE instead. (Just my idea, anyway.)

Anonymous

One problem is that many questions can't have specific titles.

Anonymous

That's because they aren't specific questions.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Did you know we have some crossover between ELL and JL.SE users already? :-) I just saw that HiruneDiver posted a question on ELL!

Oh! I didn't know that!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@Snail but we have a problem.

If I give people lists, they're not deciding how much they edit.

Anonymous

8:22 PM

Ah, I see.

Anonymous

Maybe your search idea is the best way to do things.

Anonymous

Nice and simple.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

But it's slow. :(

Anonymous

Though if you do give people numbered lists, they can always comment and say "I went down to #27 on the list. I'm stopping for now."

Anonymous

I registered for the event, but I'm only the third to do so.

Anonymous

8:24 PM

Though I see you've got the event in two rooms.

BTW, "No animated GIFs" (Community Ads). Aww...

Anonymous

Otherwise, most of the community ads would consist of cat movies.

Hehe!

I was thinking of something spinning quickly within a second or two, and wait for 30 or 60 seconds before doing that again.

Something like this:

Introducing OS1 - Her (Movie)

Please go through and replace the grammar tag with something meaningful in each instance.

2

Q: Percent with do or does?

Which one is correct? 1) How many students, in our University, does 10 percent comprise? 2) How many students, in our University, do 10 percent comprise? Is this one correct or not? I am not sure. 3) How many students, in our University, comprise 10 percent?

2

Q: Is this a correct expression of amounts and percentages?

There is a sentence I am trying to write in which I have to say 72 percent of women were able to imagine spatially to a very high extent, 41 percent were able to do so to a high extent, and so forth. Is the following composition correct grammatically, with specific emphasis on the way level is us...

Anonymous

I don't think many of ELL's tags are particularly useful. I agree with you that grammar is particularly un-useful, though.

Anonymous

8:34 PM

I think usage is also more or less useless.

I think scoring relatively high on grammar is almost a requirement on ELL. :P

Anonymous

It's my top tag! What a surprise :-)

There are times I wish the grammar tag were blacklisted.

Other times, I’m unconscious.

Anonymous

I'm still trying to figure out grammaticality-in-context.

@snailboat I have something to confess. I choked on that line. :-)

For a few minutes, apparently.

I was about to swallow my snack and your message came up. And as you know, we can't swallow something and laugh at the same time. :P

@snailboat I don't know why we have 70 of them!

8:46 PM

@snailboat And meaning. And probably tense.

Hi @DamkerngT., @tchrist

Hello, @StoneyB!

Anonymous

I wonder how many flags ELL has had. Japanese.SE is in the thousands.

Anonymous

But ELL is a busier site.

I've flagged posts a little over a hundred times.

Anonymous

I have about twice that on ELL.

Anonymous

8:48 PM

All of my flags have been marked helpful recently.

I've got about 150

Anonymous

Since April.

Probably somewhere between a thousand or two in total, three at most, I guess.

Anonymous

When I got a lot of declined flags, I took it as a message to stop flagging so much. I guess since I'm not getting any declined lately, I can flag more :-)

:D

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

8:50 PM

this -ke+yboard -thing -happe+ne+d -afte+r 3MS3's -late+st -update+  . . . why -am -I -not -surprise+d?

I -3hate+ -you -mi

c

rosoft

I have over 2k helpful flags on ELU.

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M The -'s and +'s aren't yours?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. no.

@tchrist ELU is a way busier site!

Anonymous

Wow!

8:51 PM

applauds (for the flagging)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@tchrist you -must -be+ -fe+e+ling -re+ally -ᕙ(⇀‸↼‶)ᕗ.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M I have no idea what's going on. What happens if you press numlock?

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@snailboat it -s

Anonymous

Ah! It -s. I see!

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

crolls -high -above+ -the+page+.

8:52 PM

ELU gets 62 questions a day; ELL gets 26.

I wonder what happened at Redmond.

Anonymous

Japanese.SE has been hovering between 7 and 10 or so.

Anonymous

In 2013 at its lowest point, Japanese.SE fell to 2 questions per day.

Anonymous

So, less than ELL or ELU ever had.

@tchrist It looks to me like a couple hundred questions every day!

Anonymous

8:54 PM

It's a little site!

@snailboat And graduating!

Anonymous

Yes! A little graduating site.

Anonymous

I don't know if our moderator election will be as exciting.

@DamkerngT. That's not what this says.

Anonymous

That page lists Japanese.SE as having 7.8 questions per day.

Anonymous

8:56 PM

There are some graduated sites with less.

Anonymous

Skeptics has 3.1.

On only 4.1k visits. That's nearly twice ELL's rate.

SO has 7.5k Qs/day!

Anonymous

1564

Japanese Language – japanese.stackexchange.com

Beta Q&A site for students, teachers, and linguists wanting to discuss the finer points of the Japanese language.

Currently in public beta.

So one every two seconds.

Anonymous

8:57 PM

> Okay – 10 questions per day on average is a healthy beta, 5 questions or fewer per day needs some work.

Anonymous

So is 3.1 "fewer" than 5 questions per day, or "less" than 5 questions per day?

@snailboat That's rather skeptical how Skeptics graduated. :-)

Anonymous

They changed Area 51 so it says "fewer" instead of "less".

"Five questions or less" is ok.

Anonymous

Yeah.

8:58 PM

Ahh... I remember that I've read that "less" for "fewer" is becoming more and more acceptable.

Most people would prefer "Five or fewer questions" though.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. I don't think that's true. This isn't a recent change.

Oh! It's not recent?

Anonymous

And they aren't in complementary distribution.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Now I'm using on-screen keyboard and FF. I'm way slower, but less annoying.

Anonymous

8:59 PM

That is, there are cases where you can use both.

'Acceptable' in what discourse community ... ?

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Hope you can fix your tablet soon.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

@DamkerngT. Laptop.

@StoneyB I think in all registers, iirc.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/003775.html

9:01 PM

Yah, but in academic/bureaucratic registers I think acceptability is quite recent

Anonymous

> The OED shows that less has been used of countables since the time of King Alfred the Great -- he used it that way in one of his own translations from Latin -- more than a thousand years ago (in about 888). So essentially less has been used of countables in English for just about as long as there has been a written English language. After about 900 years Robert Baker opined that fewer might be more elegant and proper.

Anonymous

> Almost every usage writer since Baker has followed Baker's lead, and generations of English teachers have swelled the chorus. The result seems to be a fairly large number of people who now believe less used of countables to be wrong, though its standardness is easily demonstrated.

Ahh

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Hmm. As @Dam would say, interesting!

Hee

Anonymous

9:03 PM

Mark Liberman put the whole MWDEU entry quoted above online here: ldc.upenn.edu//myl/llog/MW_LessFewer.pdf

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

BBL trying Windows in Safe Mode.

Anonymous

Despite the rule, less has never really stopped being used the way it was always used.

Anonymous

But it has come to be a bit of a shibboleth.

Anonymous

And that's what's changed in recent times.

We have, however, pretty much stopped using less as an adjective.

9:08 PM

> no less a person than the manager

(from dictionary.reference.com/browse/less)

It's not very common, I suppose.

That's good! But we'd never speak to a less person than the manager. It would have to be a lesser person.

Anonymous

The MWDEU is a great resource, by the way. And it's cheap.

Anonymous

amazon.com/…

Anonymous

Maybe since the title contains a determiner I shouldn't write the before it.

Anonymous

I always think of it mentally as "The Merriam-Webster Dictionary of English Usage" without the genitive suffix.

9:12 PM

$15 bucks at Amazon: practically a giveaway.

Anonymous

You can see Geoffrey Pullum's review at the top :-)

Anonymous

> BUY THIS BOOK. You can't afford not to if you have any serious interest in English grammar.

I'm delighted to see that the Amazon blurb mis-spells complex and indispensable.

Anonymous

Ooh, complext.

Ahh... I just bought Garner's Modern American Usage some months ago.

9:15 PM

The cobbler's children have no shoes.

Anonymous

I wonder what "Raised by family ranchers who are stewards of the land" means.

Anonymous

Specifically, the "stewards of the land" bit.

"We're the good guys, not complicit in megaculture"

Some sort of caretakers?

Anonymous

Wow, there's not only grass-fed ground beef, but grass-finished!

9:26 PM

See them patties graze!

Anonymous

I eat meat these days. I'm looking up the meat I bought online!

Anonymous

Poor food-shaped cow. Well, steer, maybe.

Anonymous

I still feel kind of bad about it, but it's tasty.

Anonymous

Around once a week or so.

Anonymous

I guess I'll take their word for it that they're the good guys and not complicit in megaculture. :-)

9:30 PM

It says so right there in (virtual) print, must be so.

Anonymous

I do believe everything I read.

Anonymous

Especially on the internet.

Al Gore said so!

Anonymous

Hey, this company even protects endangered species. They've got some pretty good PR!

Anonymous

> This piece of land is required by statute to use for grazing in order to save three endangers [sic] species: Tiger Salamander, Red Legged Frog and Kit Fox. This type of partnership not only allows me more acres to graze, it also allows for me to help protect open space and endangered species for years to come.

9:33 PM

Is rep cap at 200 points?

Anonymous

200 points from upvotes.

Upvote cap, yes.

Ahh... I see.

That's the only cap. You can get it other ways.

Actually, almost all beef is raised by family ranchers. What you want to look at is who they sell to.

9:34 PM

Also, it’s net +200 upvote cap.

Anonymous

@StoneyB Oh really? I'm ignorant! Most of my life, I didn't buy meat.

I think I've gotten +22 upvotes today. -- Thanks for the info. @snailboat, @tchrist

Anonymous

This meat is from Panorama Meats, and I bought it from Whole Foods.

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. It looks like you got five upvotes that didn't give you any reputation.

Oh!? It's not just 2?

Anonymous

9:36 PM

I clicked the little down arrows on your reputation > post tab to see a list.

Anonymous

There are 2 upvotes without reputation listed under one question, and 3 under another.

Anonymous

Nice job on rep capping! :-)

Ah, I have an idea. If I have 5 excess upvotes... what if I offered a bounty of +50 points today?

@DamkerngT. Only if you do it first.

Aww

Anonymous

9:38 PM

If you think you'll keep getting upvotes over the next few hours, go for it!

I should've done it a couple hours ago.

Anonymous

Or even if you don't. Putting bounties on people's questions is fun :-)

I think the current HNQ is now the one StonyB posted an answer to.

Anonymous

Eventually, I want to get my total bounties offered up to 10,000 reputation.

Anonymous

There can be more than one HNQ.

Anonymous

9:40 PM

Lately, I'm not sure how useful my bounties have been, though.

@snailboat I still have no idea what question I want to offer a bounty on. I thought it could be fun hunting. Now it seems less fun. :P

Anonymous

Aww!

Anonymous

The "live music" one is still on the HNQ list, by the way. But it's kind of low, so I suppose it might drop off soon.

Oh, it's still on the list?

Anonymous

Yes, it's on the second page.

Anonymous

9:41 PM

Anonymous

Wow, that oneboxes terribly.

I see nothing.

Anonymous

I see it because it's white on light blue, but it's hard to read.

Anonymous

For everyone else, I suppose it must be white-on-white, so invisible.

It's indeed just white. (I suppose it's actually white-on-white.)

Anonymous

9:47 PM

0

Q: Hot network questions onebox is invisible in chat

I tried to link to the front page of Stack Exchange in chat today—in other words, to the Hot Network Questions list. Unfortunately, it ended up looking like this: The white-on-light-blue is quite hard to read! But it's even harder to read for other users: As you can see, it's blin...

bug chat hot-questions onebox

@snailboat Panorama looks legit - it's a rancher's co-op and seems to be pretty aggressive in maintaining its distinction.

Anonymous

Yay!

@snailboat Upboated! (disguised as MAR :-)

Anonymous

Ah, it's a duplicate of a bug from years ago.

Anonymous

Hmmph. I thought if I voted to close my question as a duplicate, Community would mark it as a duplicate without further close votes.

Anonymous

9:57 PM

BTW you can click the "I agree" button on top to close this right away, instead of voting. — Shadow Wizard 1 min ago

Anonymous

But it doesn't work―you have to click "I agree"!

Anonymous

Now I know.

Anonymous

I wonder why close voting doesn't do the same thing.

Anonymous

Oh well, Stack Exchange is a mystery.

Anonymous

I try not to use Meta.SE, but it's the only way I know of to report bugs.

Anonymous

9:59 PM

Aside from the per-site metas, of course.

@snailboat I think we need a wand, a stone, and a cloak to solve the mystery. :-)

Anonymous

@DamkerngT. Maybe I should say it's a collection of little mysteries.

We may need rings and the ring, too, then!

@snailboat Most people with your rep can't CV on Meta SE... Do you mean you flagged or does being a mod on one site give you super powers on Meta SE?

Anonymous

I think the reason I didn't see "I agree" is because I had no reason to look at the text of my own question.

Anonymous

10:01 PM

@Catija You can vote to close your own questions.

Anonymous

I have no super powers on Meta.SE. I'm just a regular, not particularly clueful user over there.

@snailboat Seriously? ... Hmmm... I've clearly never noticed. The only place I regularly ask questions is on MSE, and I've never felt the urge to close any of them.

Clueful ... that's a useful word.

Anonymous

@Catija Well, I wanted to help mark it as a duplicate. You can also delete your own questions.

Anonymous

@StoneyB The state of clue havingness.

10:03 PM

@snailboat If you ever have a question about it, both I and MAR are pretty regular over there.

Anonymous

Thanks! I may just take you up on that.

@snailboat Unless they have... two answers or more?... or a single answer with a positive score...

@snailboat Sure :D Any time. Feel free to ping me... if I'm not in class I'm probably around... and I'll get a notice on my phone around 15 minutes after you ping. :D

@snailboat Indeed. It makes me want to manufacture an occasion to use feckful.

Or reckful.

Anonymous

@Catija Ah, I can't recall the precise requirements. But I do believe having at least one answer with a positive score is one of them.

Anonymous

I don't remember the part about having two answers or more. I assume you can find it on Meta.SE, you being a regular over there and all.

Anonymous

10:06 PM

Ooh, I like reckful.

Anonymous

Show those lexical negatives who's boss!

@snailboat Yeah, there was a question just today ...

4

Q: OP deleted question with multiple answers, How?

This question has two answers. I was trying to add a comment, when I couldn't. I realised the question had been deleted by the OP. According to the meta how does deleting work what can cause a post to be deleted, a question with multiple answers cannot be deleted by the OP.

My insurance rates have gone down thanks to my history of reckful driving.

3

207

Q: How does deleting work? What can cause a post to be deleted, and what does that actually mean? What are the criteria for deletion?

What circumstances can cause a question or answer to be deleted, and what does that actually mean? How can a post be deleted? When can't I delete my own post? Can I see a list of my deleted posts? How can I undelete one of my posts? What does deletion mean for a post? How do votes to delete wo...

support faq delete deleted-questions deleted-answers

Anonymous

@Catija I'm well aware of the "one upvoted answer" rule because there was a pattern of behavior on ELL where a user downvoted the lone answer on their question, then immediately deleted the question itself.

10:08 PM

@snailboat Hm... that seems sort of cheat-y :P

I think we've recently seen that user in strenuous action ...

Anonymous

@Catija I believe it was brought up on meta.

Anonymous

At the time.

I guess that argues that we should be more proactive in upvoting good answers so that it's impossbile for an OP to do that.

Anonymous

Upvoting good answers is always a good idea.

Anonymous

10:11 PM

Even though I haven't really been active, I still try to vote when I see good answers.

Anonymous

cs.toronto.edu/~mbweb

As someone who has been voting quite a lot, I'd be more than happy to see us upvote more often. :-)

Oh, that looks like a good read.

But I'm too sleepy now.

So, I think I have to say Good night! to everyone. Good night!

Sweet dreams, DT

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Stupid Win8. :(

Now it won't come out of the safe mode.

Actually, I can't still get it outta the safe mode.

Safe mode is clearly designed to protect the system from people like you :)

10:26 PM

sends out boot linux discs via flying saucer

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

I wish I were a Linux guy.

Oh well, I'm restoring the system into the state it was before the last effing update.

(Sorry for the language, it's 3 a.m.)

I miss CP/M.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M Or BSD!

Anonymous

I have a friend who is of the opinion that if you can't run something on NetBSD (or run NetBSD on something), it isn't worth running.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

That's a strong idea. Seems similar to my "if you don't typeset a book in TeX, the book must be gibberish."

10:34 PM

@snailboat Reasonable.

All my non-Macs run OpenBSD.

Anonymous

@inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M If you start reading linguistics papers, you'll be very sad ;-)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Of course I meant in modern books.

Anonymous

If you start reading modern linguistics papers, you'll be very sad!

Anonymous

Books tend to be easier on the eyes, on the whole, though.

Anonymous

Let's see if I've got a good example.

Anonymous

10:53 PM

Shibatani's paper Non-Canonical Constructions in Japanese is freely available online. It's rather hard to read though! Look how the glosses don't line up. But it was also published, with revision, as a chapter in the book Non-canonical Marking of Subjects and Objects, and the chapter version looks much nicer.

Anonymous

(I can supply a copy of the chapter version in PDF if anyone needs it.)

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Sad

Anonymous

I don't know what you'd think of the chapter version.

Anonymous

I don't have very discerning eyes when it comes to that sort of thing.

Anonymous

But I can tell at least that the information is much easier to digest when it's lined up properly.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

10:57 PM

It doesn't look that bad. I was expecting something else.

Anonymous

user image

Anonymous

Alignment is pretty haphazard through the whole paper, actually. Look at where each of the lines of text starts.

inɒzɘmɒЯ.A.M

Oooh \begin{align}

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Sep '1511

ELL's Cabin

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