The Base Camp

WedaPashi

05:42

Hi Everyone! Morning!

nhinkle

05:56

Good evening @WedaPashi!

(The internet's so weird...)

WedaPashi

06:35

@nhikle: Good Eve! Whatsup?

Aravona

07:04

Morning all

WedaPashi

morning @ara

Aravona

@Weda I think your latest question could be misleading and dangerous - questions about self medication are something you should talk to a professional about, not a bunch of twits like us on the internet...

Considering you can OD on paracetamol

WedaPashi

@Ara: Agreed to some extent.

Aravona

@Weda plus it is a very personal question and little good to other

others*

@Rory and I decided my similar question about Acid Reflux was too personal for TGO, and that didn't even involve medication

WedaPashi

@Ara: Umm.. Yeah. Kind of.. Should I delete that? Or may be let the mods come in and do that? @Rory @RussellSteen @Kevin @liam

Aravona

07:17

Someone could easily give you a misleading bit of info, the wrong dosage, and you could take it as fact and kill yourself half way up a mountain.

I've voted close on it for the reason of self medication is very misleading

3 of my parents are nurses, and as I said I've a medicinal allergy myself. Doesn't seem good to me

WedaPashi

@ara: okay

Aravona

@Weda I'd ask HERE first, and then repost if the guys agree it makes sense to

But imo, asking a bunch of non medical professionals about drug use in a situation where an OD could be harmful (solo-trekking?) just seems... a disregard for your own health

WedaPashi

@ara: Solo altogether is making this sound a crazy expedition. :( I am a bit worried about how I am gonna make it

Aravona

@Weda well I'd close the question as Off Topic personally.

I don't think many people climb big mountains solo though? I'm no mountaineer but I read a lot of articles / watch a lot of documentaries and it always seems people have to go in teams?

@Liam probably has better info on that :)

@Weda Sorry I know I don't really know you well but that question had me worried from the title alone...

WedaPashi

@Ara: Seriously?

Aravona

07:26

@Weda considering my family are all nurses, yeah. My mum works on a ward for mental health where most people on there are self medicators - not in the useful way either - but medication here in the UK is pretty regulated, you can't even usually get sleeping pills except over the counter.

@Weda only painkillers and some cold and flu tablets are usually off the shelf

WedaPashi

@Ara: Yeah, its strict in India as well. If I am not a doctor, I don't have any means to get sleeping pills et al.

Aravona

@Weda here's the NHS info on that drug - it appears to be prescription only and.. the list of 'wont be prescribed this if...' list is huge

nhs.uk/medicine-guides/pages/…

Aravona

08:28

Anyway....

WedaPashi

@Ara: Thanks for the link. This stuff looks far serious than what I had thought

Aravona

@Weda most medications are.

Liam

Morning

BTW

WedaPashi

@liam: Morning dude :-)

Aravona

@Liam howdy

How's it going?

Liam

08:55

@Aravona Not bad

Yourself @Aravona?

Aravona

@Liam kinda tired but ok.

WedaPashi

@ara: Tired, even before the weekend? Eh?

@liam @ara: Weekend plans?

Aravona

@Weda I didn't sleep well. And yeah, family birthday celebrations tomorrow... Kayaking Sunday

@Weda you?

Aravona

10:13

Everyone busy today???

Liam

@Aravona Yep!! ha ha

you not?

Aravona

@Liam sorta? mid project waiting on other people...

WedaPashi

10:58

@Ara: I just might go to a trek for a couple of days. But as there is a huge festival coming on Monday, I may not find a companion. So I might just go alone.

@Ara: I ain't busy, I just had to take my wind sensor on the top of the building, on the roof and stand with it the system, playing with the values and polarization. #Stupidstuff :-D

Aravona

@Weda cool :)

WedaPashi

11:37

@Ara: Its a slow day today :-(

I feel like I'm a scare-crow. I was standing with the huge sensor probe on the roof, when I left my desk it was sunshine out there and as soon as I set the things up with my system, it started pouring. I could just make sure that my lappy doesn't get wet. Birds who have their nests on the roof and the solar panels were going nuts, I felt like a scare-crow :D

@kevin: Hey there! :-)

Aravona

12:03

@Weda lo

Lol*

soph-e

13:16

woo, chat name change. when did that happen? :D

Liam

4

Q: Our chat room name

I'm effectively reopening the question What should we name our chat room? So ours has been called The Great Outdoors. But well that's lame..... So does anyone have any more interesting ideas on what the chat room should be called (You can add The Great Outdoors if you want). Highest vote (that...

@soph-e

soph-e

noice

Liam

@soph-e Hows things?

soph-e

things are good, i went to my university's initiation-type event yesterday, there was lots of sliding in the mud and not as much beer as you'd expect

it was good

and what's new with you?

Liam

@soph-e Nothing much. Nearly the weekend. What uni?

soph-e

13:21

@liam en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89cole_de_technologie_sup%C3%A9rieure

I've had a busy week so far, trying to figure out all the ins and outs of university right away. I've found that information is super hard to find on their websites >.>

Russell Steen

@WedaPashi -- Did you question get handled? I'm not seeing anything that jumps out in my feed as "WOAH, what is THAT doing here"

Aravona

@soph-e hey!

soph-e

@ara good morning! ;)

(it's 9am here >.>)

Aravona

@Russell er his medication one? Don't think so...?

@soph lol 2:30 here

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- Link it?

WedaPashi

13:30

@soph: Hi there

Russell Steen

Wait, just found it

Aravona

@Russell I'm on a phone.

Lol

WedaPashi

@Russell: What question? The one about the Dex ?

@russellSteen: Hi there!

Russell Steen

@WedaPashi -- I think the question could be fine. It needs a few updates. Why would you want to take Dex, etc. etc.? As it stands, reading it, I have no idea why or how that relates to climbing.

Aravona

@Russell it needs to come away from self medicating and advice on doing so yeah... Toward why do some people take Dex. Since it is prescription only in most places you can't get good info as it stands

Russell Steen

13:33

@WedaPashi -- Yes people can screw up self medicating... but 99% of medicine is taken by self-medication. This can be a valuable question in helping determine the risk level of self medicating with this... but it needs a stronger tie to mountaineering I think.

Aravona

@Russell self medicating here meaning not given to you by a doctor. Not aelf administration

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- Yeah I know. But people take a LOT of OTC medication.

And then you stack on top of that the non-prescription use of prescription meds...

though to be fair, I did just make up the 99%

Aravona

@RussellSteen Dex is not OTC

It's prescription only

hence why getting someone online to give information about how to do it is very bad

Russell Steen

I have a different opinion on how much I need a doctor to be "safe"

Aravona

@Russell please refer to my link further up the chat on why you should NOT take Dex, provided by the NHS

Russell Steen

13:36

@Aravona -- I'm not arguing about DEX. I am discussing whether or not the question should be removed on the basis of being about self-medication.

@Aravona -- Such a link would be a good part of a good answer to the question.

Aravona

@Russell it is about a DRUG which is provided by PRESCRIPTION only, so if the question gets reworded to WHY do people take Dex, it is fine

@Russell leaving it as 'Give me advice on taking Dex' is something you should speak to a doctor about

You could for one, be allergic to Dex, go half way up a mountain then kill yourself.

As someone with an allergy to Eurythromycin (the option for when you are allergic to Penicillin) I find that worrying.

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- We're not here to enforce prescription laws. I'm not going to delete a question just because it asks about a prescription only medication.

Aravona

@Russell I believe other questions are removed based on if they are personal based questions? as it stands Weda's question doesn't relate to other people?

WedaPashi

@Ara: I am personally not against taking DEX. Its a life saving drug!

Russell Steen

As someone who is allergic to three major classes of antibiotics, I find it worrying when people want to restrict information. Being able to research prescription medication without my doctor has kept me safe on more than one occasion.

Aravona

13:40

0

Q: authority and medical questions

I have encountered problems before on other sites where someone answers a medical question based on wikipedia or answers.com rather than having specific medical knowledge or training. Does this site have moderations powers enough to limit answering medical questions to medical professionals?

discussion moderation

Russell Steen

I'm glad you linked that. Please see Kevin's answer to that question.

Aravona

@Russell I disagree, wee as an outdoors site should not be giving advice on medicine

wee*

we...*

Russell Steen

"As with other types of answers, if you believe an answer is incorrect or dangerous, downvote it and post a comment explaining (preferably with citation) why. We (moderators) generally do not evaluate the correctness of answers, but if it is clearly dangerous, flag it and a moderator will determine whether it's bad enough to delete."

This question is not "clearly dangerous"

Aravona

@Russell it is dangerous to take advice of the internet from a site where people cannot verify The person in questions medical situation, in my opinion as the daughter of three nurses.

Russell Steen

@aravona -- I understand your side, but we do disagree.

Liam

13:42

I think I'm on @Aravona's side here

Aravona

For the record, why you should NOT take DEX without a doctor there to evaluate you:

are allergic or sensitive to or have had a reaction to any of the ingredients in the medicine
are elderly
are prone to allergies
have a family history of diabetes
have a family history of glaucoma
have an infection
have diabetes
have epilepsy
have glaucoma
have had muscle problems caused by taking steroids
have had psychoses caused by steroids
have heart problems
have high blood pressure
have hypothyroidism
have kidney problems
have liver problems
have migraines
have never been exposed to chicken pox

Liam

That said india (for example) has very different laws and rules on drug use than the UK/US

Russell Steen

This should be taken to Meta for further discussion by the wider community (and other mods)

Liam

@RussellSteen yep

Aravona

@Russell Agreed.

Should the question remain open, or go on hold until it is further discussed?

Whichever you decide is fine, just curious to what the procedure should be.

Liam

13:44

Relevant:

7

Q: Question asking for medical advice -- is this a liability problem?

This question on the Bicycles beta seems to be a bit of red flag, liability-wise: What do you do to heal yourself more quickly after a crash? I started a thread about my concerns in the meta.bicycles site: On or off topic: Medical advice Has this ever come up before on other sites?

discussion stackexchange-2.0

WedaPashi

@RussellSteen: May be we should close this question here and talk about it over meta and then decide on whether to re-open or not.

Aravona

@Liam interesting, thanks for that meta link

@Weda that seems sensible, and then could work on rewording the question afterwards if needs be?

Russell Steen

@WedaPashi -- II'm against pre-emptive closing

Discuss in meta. If the community agrees, the mods will discuss and close.

I'm going to discuss in the diamond room with the other mods.

Aravona

@Russell thank you. Dex also just as a note often comes with pre-tests for dosage, not somethine one can do without a doctor safely.

Russell Steen

Again - There is no clear and present danger here. No one is going to come to harm by us taking time to suss this out.

WedaPashi

13:46

@Russell @Ara @liam: But on a personal note, I still have this question in mind, and I haven't come across a doctor who understands the question. The other guy calmly told me that forget Dex, and climb down as soon as you get a headache. And, I learnt a thing from that moment: Never go to him, even for a simple dressing treatment. :-)

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- I am not arguing that anyone should take Dex. That's a separate issue.

WedaPashi

@Russell: Thanks :-)

Aravona

@Weda that is unfortunate that you cannot find a suitable doctor

Russell Steen

I will be posting an answer to the question in a moment.

Aravona

@Russell yes but someone of lesser intelligence than you could take whatever is answered in regards to medicinal questions as fact.

Russell Steen

13:48

Note on doctors and safety and the scary, scary, untrusted people on the "internet". Doctor's proscribe me stuff I'm allergic to all the time. Medicines come under many names. If I couldn't research on the internet, I'd be screwed. In one case it actually did save my life. (My doctor said I was fine, but my research on the internet indicated otherwise)

Aravona

The first thing my programming and network tutor at uni taught me was the lowest common denominator on the internet is an idiot, and work to that, lol

@Russell you're from where?

WedaPashi

@Ara: Georgia

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- The same applies to the answer to most climbing questions. Climbing is very dangerous. By your argument we should remove all climbing questions because someone "less intelligent" might take them as fact.

Also -- the entire "less intelligent" comment is rather elitist and insulting.

Aravona

@Russell whilst that is true, I put medication on a different level to sport.

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- That is your opinion, and I respect that. I just disagree.

Aravona

13:50

@Russell I quoted a tutor, nothing more.

@Russell you didn't answer my previous question however?

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- That's disingenuous. You chose who to quote.

@Aravona -- Because where I am from is not relevent and frankly, not your business.

Though I'm so easy to google, that I'm tempted to just post a lmgtfy link.

Aravona

@Russell I apologise if it seemed rude, but culture changes the quality of healthcare and was curious

@Russell lmgtfy ?

WedaPashi

Aww, what have I done! :-(

Aravona

@Weda caused a discussion :P

WedaPashi

@Russell: I'm looking forward to your answer :-) Cheers!

Aravona

13:53

@Weda different people will always see questions on medicine differently, for the history of my heated passion that questions about medication should come doctor first, is because my family work in healthcare.

I agree that doctors sometimes don't get things right, but they are still more qualified than I am to diagnose myself :)

WedaPashi

@Ara: Okay. Good.

Liam

Did anyone open a meta question?

Aravona

I barely ever take my medication nowadays - since I changed to a diet based on preventing my Acid Reflux, but I still have them for the bad days, and always get a top up. I'd have never figured out what I had without a doctor though as the symptoms are common with other illnesses.

@Liam I have not no.

Liam

@Aravona I think you prob should?

Aravona

@Liam I will not have time to

Liam

13:56

@Aravona I never take drugs (paracetamol, nothing). Unless I feel I have!

@Aravona Oh OK

Hold up

Aravona

@Weda for a note, some people also take Viagra for altitude issues.

which I find amusing :P

@Weda did you change the question on how to inject yourself? Sorry if I am misreading?

Liam

@Aravona Raises your blood pressure I think?

Not that I know.............

Aravona

@Liam something to do with something lol?

@Liam unfortunately on a work pc I can't google it easily without questions haha

Liam

0

Q: Should prescription drug advice be on topic?

There has been a bit of discussion on this question Is there a dose guide for Dexamethasone?. Should we as a site be providing medical advice? There appears to be no network wide issue here, i.e. there is no liabilty due to the terms and conditions Question asking for medical advice -- is this...

discussion scope

discuss

...........

Russell Steen

I was talking to a doctor recently who said Viagra was originally a heart medication. The erections were a side effect, and they have since found better heart meds.

@WedaPashi -- I'm afraid you won't find my answer useful.

WedaPashi

14:01

@Russell: +1 to that.

Russell Steen

@WedaPashi -- My answer boils down to "have a professional figure out your dosing, or don't do it"

Aravona

@Russell you have given what I would give as an answer.

@Russell ultimately we may have come to the same conclusion through entirely different views.

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- :)

Aravona

@RussellSteen I did honestly not mean to cause offense though!

I can get a bit passionate about peoples welfare ...

WedaPashi

@Russell: Your answer makes sense.

Russell Steen

14:05

@Aravona -- No foul here. I hope I have not offended you as well. People argue most about the things they really care about :)

2

WedaPashi

Its The Base Camp guys: We are supposed to have such discussions in here :-)

Aravona

@Russell in response to @Liams meta, if all questions on medication come up with the same answer - IE: see a doctor first... - could a generic wiki answer be useful?

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- I would think so

Aravona

@Russell you did not! I only was intrigued as to where you live as all countries have different views to healthcare and it interests me how this can then affect a persons viewpoint :)

Russell Steen

It also relates to searching. If we give a good answer that will discourage dangerous behavior, then I would want people to find it via google. So I'm not sure if it is best to close as duplicate or not. Guess I'll have to stroll over to the teachers lounge at some point.

Aravona

14:08

@Russell that sounds a good idea, I am... much more calmly!... posting my response to @Liams question in meta - which at least will give some people a reference point

howdy lover @Dyna

Dynadin

@Aravona Hey

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- Awesome! Chat is cool, but transient. I'm glad we've got it in META so that everyone can see/chime in.

Aravona

@Russell Agreed!

Liam

@Aravona yep sounds like a plan

Aravona

@Russell @Liam @Weda @Dynadin

0

A: Should prescription drug advice be on topic?

I think that in response to most medication questions, it might be a good idea to: Discuss the question in chat where possible. Suggest, firstly, that the asker talks to a doctor. Set up a good solid wiki answer for medicine based questions. If the asker has already talked to a doctor, find out...

@Russell good point about education.

Russell Steen

14:19

"If someone has been told explicitly by a doctor not to use a drug for any reason, I do not feel we should be encouraging it." -- totally 100% agree

Liam

@RussellSteen @Aravona How would you know though?

Aravona

@Liam the best we can do is ask.

Russell Steen

@Liam -- If they told us. If they're lying well /sigh

Aravona

If someone wishes to lie ...

If someone says 'My doctor advised against X which helps with A because of Y... is there a Z alternative that isn't medicine' well that is actually something we might be able to answer

I asked in here not long ago about whether my question 'What is a good food to take hiking if you have Acid Reflux' - Rory and I decided it was a bit OT as not everyone had Acid Reflux, but Rory also helped me get an answer to my question which meant I could leave the bulky box of Lansoperazole at home :)

Russell Steen

Seriously though, I don't see this becoming a huge trend. It still has to be about the outdoors. Maybe I'm wrong, but I just don't see the potential for a flood of medicine questions which are relevant and on topic. Perhaps we should wait and see if it becomes a trend/problem before we stress over it too much.

Aravona

14:24

@Russell very true.

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- Ooooo, I missed that question. Or maybe I didn't, and forgot. Regardless, acid reflux when hiking plagues me.

Aravona

I still think medicines should be held slightly differently in mind to things like first aid kits etc. Ideally, every hike should have a first Aider - and in some cases.. UK Three Peaks... you cannot do your trek without one anyway

@Russell I have it Stress related, and wanted to ditch the medicine where possible, I take it maybe once or twice a month at the moment... but my usual yogurts, milk etc is a bit hard on a hike - Rory suggested Beef Jerky -which worked great on my Snowdon climb :)

Russell Steen

I think "not ever hiker has <insert thing>, so this is OT" may be flawed logic. Not every hiker has bunions, but to those who do... they really want an answer. Those sorts of specific questions are the things people are likely to google and, IMO, likely to bring us more traffic.

Aravona

@Russell lol well I can always ask the question anyway :)

@Weda @Russell for the record I have removed my close vote as this has gone up higher than my vote should weigh :)

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- Mine is unfortunately cronic/constant. I've had it since 14 and have been slowly moving up through solutions as each stops working. There is no home remedy that works anymore. If I don't have meds, there are things I can do to make it less painful, but that's about all.

Aravona

14:28

@Russell I can imagine how that feel ...Literally?... on a bad month mine is from when I wake up all day. I do find eating in general helps, acid is doing what it should then.

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- Avoiding any trigger foods and eating regularly (but not too much) help to manage it. My baseline is your bad month. When it's bad, it literally gets so bad that I end up puking nothing but bile. Pump inhibitors help, but my body has adapted I guess because the OTC ones don't really work for me anymore.

Aravona

@Russell I have been told I cannot become a vegetarian because of my acid reflux. I eat meat so part of my over production of acid is enzymes to break down meat will be produced excessively even if I stop eating meat.

@Russell I take lansoperazole when I must which is prescription only here. 30mg dosage too... Acid Reflux runs in my family.

Liam

I'm in two minds on this discussion. I think I'm leaning slightly towards Russell's argument

Aravona

@Liam Lol @Russell and I have the same conclusion just different routes.

Liam

In other news my question asked 3 days ago is on the first page of travel

travel.stackexchange.com/questions?sort=votes

I'm awesome....

Aravona

14:35

Lol

Liam

57

Q: Does Venice smell?

I keep getting told that Venice smells pretty bad as a reason not to go (a lot of people say it's pretty crowded too but that's another matter). Apparently it's the canals in summer. Is this true? Does Venice have a problem with it's aroma or is this a bit of an old wives tale?

italy venice

Aravona

@Russell would you have said my question was on topic then about Acid Reflux?

@Liam great news.

Russell Steen

@Aravona -- I'm biased ;), but yes

Aravona

@Russell ;) will think about it a bit.

@Liam I've updated my answer to more enhance Russells than seem opposed to it - showing how we could then build up a good wiki / provide a good answer to these types of questions, therefore educating people rather than shutting them off :) is that better?

Liam

room topic changed to The Base Camp: falling == death == not a successful accent [drugs] [flapping-mice] [football-rants] [hair] [je-mappelle] [queen-of-tgo]

room topic changed to The Base Camp: falling == death == not a successful accent [acid-reflux] [drugs] [flapping-mice] [football-rants] [hair] [je-mappelle] [queen-of-tgo]

Aravona

14:43

Ok I'm done making my question make sense.

Russell Steen

In other news - youtube.com/watch?v=CB6TiRJNI-Q

Aravona

I should do some work...

Liam

@RussellSteen ha ha ha

@Aravona nah

fuck it

:)

Aravona

@Liam almost home time...

Pub tonight too.

RE one part of my answer to the meta question... Everyone should do a first aid course!! I need to do one as I'm out of date lol

2

And now I've life or death image changing to do before hometime... Take care all! Might see you this week between outings / playing Destiny!!

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