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00:40
On OS X : is it still common to have folders named with .'s ? I mean are things like Mathematica.app etc. normal?
(kind of hard to write platform independent code if one cannot test on Mac ...)
00:52
@RolfMertig Yes, it indeed is common. All apps have the .app extension. The OS treats these directories differently and hides the contents. If you click on the directory, it opens the binary associated with it. This works very well for 99% of their users who will never have to look inside an app directory.
@Hypnotoad thanx. And FileType["/Mathematica.app"] is Directory, yes? And normal users do not create directories with a . inside, right?
Hi @Verbeia, was IT nice to you?
@RolfMertig Yes, but we are in a weird situation where they did yet another scan to see if anything but Mathematica can do the job they want, found out the answer was "no", and now have to think about what can be done in-house.
@RolfMertig yes, it's Directory. The default location is /Applications/Mathematica.app, not in /. Re: normal users, I wouldn't make that assumption... it's not prohibited by the OS and I have seen people use . in their naming conventions (instead of _ or - or spaces)
And of course IT doesn't (yet) have Mathematica experience and has no UI design experience.
Ah, the joys of working for the government =)
00:56
@Verbeia reminds me when I was a PhD student in germany: everbody would come and ask me about Mathematica. When I was Postdoc in Hollands, things were much much quieter. Just hide what you know ...
@Hyp
The stupid thing is it would be more than possible to build something a bit less GUI-like if a few key users and managers would be willing to change.
@Verbeia well, it's not really that simple. They also have to look at maintaining the code base... if you're the only person who knows how to use mma and developing/maintaining code is not in your job description, then they're certainly going to consider and reconsider switching (and most likely end up going with a .NET gui). What you can do with it is only one piece of the equation...
@Hypnotoad Yes exactly - I am sure that they would be able to maintain code given time and a bit of training. But there's also the issue of domain knowledge.
Considering my actual job, developing code is definitely not in my job description! :)
I know :)
@Verbeia Try to talk them into CDF/webMathematica based. Check out greenformula.com/projects.php : there is a screenshot of a CDF (webMathematica generated) and a true webMathematica example with JS-sliders (not that I am a big fan of mixing PHP and webMathematica, but it can be done)
01:07
@RolfMertig What I'm going to suggest is a CDF simple GUI for one-panel graphs, and then full Mathematica with a palette interface for pasting code for more advanced users.
@Verbeia Good. And keep in mind that EnteriseCDF is going to be extremely cool: Sign a CDF in EnterpriseCDF as PlayerPro capable, but run it in Player (v9).
@RolfMertig btw, if you need some testing on mac, I can help you out. If all you need is some confirmation of various $Variable and OS options, you can just make an nb and write the output to a text file and I can run it send that to you.
@Hypnotoad Could you try on OS X Import["http://www.mertig.com/mathdepot/CopyRemote.m"]
NotebookOpen@CopyRemote["https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38623/SE%20Uploader.nb",FileNameJoin[{$UserAddOnsDirectory,"SystemFiles","FrontEnd","Palettes"}]]
@verbeia No wonder we have a crisis ...
@RolfMertig :-D
@RolfMertig It works fine here
01:15
@RolfMertig I haven't been able to find out much about EnterpriseCDF so far. I think IT can do that bit.
@Verbeia It is hard to find out anything ...
@Hypnotoad Thank's! This is on V9, yes? Do you also have Version 8?
@RolfMertig v9. I have v8 too, do you want me to test on that?
@Hypnotoad if you have time. no hurry. I am just exercising.
@RolfMertig They have very different underlying infrastructure and much simpler graphs (PS could you please delete that comment in a bit to maintain some anonymity?)
@RolfMertig Works fine in v8 too
01:27
@Hypnotoad Thank's.
@RolfMertig lol... two of us are right here. You could've just asked us :)
@RolfMertig But I would like to bounce ideas off people in a non-public forum. Do you know how to find my verbeia email address?
@Verbeia yep. sorry.
Alternatively, would you object if I sent you an email at the address on your Mma.SE profile (abusing my mod privileges)?
@Verbeia already sent you a mail. Though I am going to bed quite soon. 2:34 here ...
01:35
@RolfMertig No hurry - I'm going to lunch now anyway.
Good night!
@Hypnotoad There is an alternative, using my little installer package (don't want to compete with @Leonid, but just like to do things as simple as possible for users and me). Could you test if this works on OSX? Import["http://www.mertig.com/mathdepot/Installer.m"];
InstallPalette["https://dl.dropbox.com/u/38623/SE%20Uploader.nb"]
Good night @All. need to sleep.
@RolfMertig Yup, on both v8 and v9
 
2 hours later…
03:22
0
Q: Unanswered Questions

rcollyerThe most recent posting of the Unanswered Questions Community Ad by Hypnotoad lists 349 questions as unanswered. This is nearly 10% of the total questions on the site. Some of the questions are genuinely hard, and that is reflected in the number of votes they have. But, most have 5 votes or les...

 
2 hours later…
05:06
@Hypnotoad you here?
Anyone around?
ohhh ... sooo lonely
05:34
@belisarius What's up?
@Hypnotoad I'm watching "Cloud Atlas" and forgot what I'm calling you for. Really a masterpiece
Ohhh I remember now
this question
6
Q: Do you know of any web-based university course that is entirely Mathematica based?

Piotr SemenovDoes anybody known of a web-based university course entirely built with Mathematica? I mean one where the whole course (lectures/labs/exams) is presented in Mathematica FrontEnd form. My point is that Mathematica is very user-friendly, supporting the principle "if you can visualize this data/pro...

Good question, bad fit for the site
What do you think about it?
I agree that it's broad and open-ended, and wouldn't object if it got closed. I would've voted to close as a regular user, but I'm not going to singlehandedly close it
@Hypnotoad Agree, Mma.se isn't the right site for it, but it is a rather good question indeed. Is meta a better place?
No, let it be here
Hmmm ... There can't be a "best" answer (objectively at least)
@Hypnotoad I'm not a purist, I'm just trying to protect the answers "for the future". In some future time, a few people may want to delete the question
05:44
There is scope for a good answer here... At the heart of the post is a hidden question that was never asked — "How can I use Mathematica to design a university course (i.e. presentation/mix of code and output/hiding ugly code/manipulate and dynamic considerations, etc.)". Refocusing it this way moves it away from a "list of examples" style to a more higher level "design considerations/project planning" sort of question which is a good fit and a good question.
In that same answer, there is scope for discussion on some of the topics in these presentations, and highlight what needs to be considered and where to find examples for it.
@Hypnotoad No,no. That was posted a few times on SO (the "how do I?" part) I've done it myself once. This is more specific, and perhaps more interesting. It's about "How others did it?"
I remember a very good answer by @simon explaining how he makes tests templates with Mma
On SO, right? I remember that one too, I think
but this question in better However a bad fit for the site. I'm concerned about its future
if someone like to try my CDF and please let me know if they find any problems or something not clear. I need to submit this to demo project sometime and like someone to try it. 12000.org/my_notes/mma_demos/single_degree_of_freedom_responses/… it is simulation of second order system, with harmonic input and also impulse
@Nasser You're all in for WD, aren't you? :)
05:52
They should hire @Nasser :)
@belisarius I use it to study from. Each time I learn something new, I like to simulate it
@Verbeia Long time no see
I always learn something new when I can try different values. Hard to do that from just looking at equations.
@Nasser But making a robust presentation takes a lot of time!
The equations implemented by this demo are in documented in my page here: 12000.org/my_notes/dynamics_cheat_sheet/index.htm , first chapter. I do not use DSolve nor NDSolve. I use the actual analytical solutions.
05:55
@belisarius Hi, just cleaning up a few chat comments that were a bit too identifying
@RolfMertig I hope you don't mind that I deleted a couple more of your comments.
@Verbeia :D Anybody could identify you easily in the street
@belisarius, yes. it takes more time, if one wants to make it look good and work well. I just wish the performance can be improved for the rendering. M is fast for computation, but I think it is slow for CDF display
@Nasser M is good for prototyping and experimentation. I was never able to put a single line of M in a real production line :(
if someone tries it and find any thing not clear or think they found a bug, please let me know.
@Nasser Why don't you try to create a a meta tag "Wolfies demos"?
06:00
lol
@belisarius :-)
Direct copy and paste to Cross Validated. Unbelievable. Are you actively trying to convince people that your questions are not being asked in good faith and demonstrate the fact that you ignore comments asking for their deficiencies to be corrected? — Oleksandr R. 4 hours ago
This chap really is unbelievable...
@Hypnotoad I could write a whole book speculating about what those three plots mean
06:02
btw, 51 questions and he still hasn't formatted a single one correctly... he got pissed that people were repeatedly telling him to format his posts properly, so he uses images (this is what he used to do initially)
a boring book, I mean
@Hypnotoad Thanks! I had my downvote tank at a high water mark. Now I feel better
I hate those leechers
@belisarius Downvoting bad posts is a service to the community :)
@Hypnotoad And we have no other way to educate him?
@halirutan Hi!
@halirutan We may just kill him softly
@belisarius Hi.
06:08
@belisarius btw, I like the "self correcting" nature of the community in this post (see my comments)... perhaps the clearest example of it at work
@halirutan I've stopped responding to him or attempting to answer/make sense of his questions. Now we need 999 others to do the same =)
@Hypnotoad Nice indeed. The only cloud in the sky is that that the OP hasn't ack'ed your comments yet
@Hypnotoad Unfortunately, the diamond makes it difficult for you to apply the other usual correction measure: vote to close. I think a lot of his questions need just that.
@rcollyer Hi!
@belisarius hola. como estas?
@rcollyer Wow! That's a full Spanish boasting
but
it's "estás"
:)
06:14
@belisarius I am quite well aware of that, but I haven't figured out how to add accents in an easy way, yet. Nor, am I likely to. :P
@rcollyer So... á é í ó ú :)
and ... ñ ü
@Hypnotoad voted to close that question as NRQ. the inability to copy the code is just causing havoc with my ability to understand what it is he is asking.
@belisarius I can't remember if where se goes, but el burro mas que tu!
@belisarius el burro se mas que tu! (?)
@rcollyer mmm ... in English?
@belisarius the donkey (jackass, if you prefer) knows more than you. It's supposed to rhyme with the vowels.
@rcollyer On the contrary... I'm just avoiding commenting because he annoys me and I don't want to respond/get into a discussion. Besides, he's now managed to piss everyone off on this site that I no longer have to say anything =) His questions also easily attract 3-4 close votes and I finish with the fifth.
06:18
@rcollyer Ah ... :P
@Hypnotoad sorry, I meant more in terms of early voting. But, finishing them off works very well. :)
@Hypnotoad You aren't my rm -rf anymore. Where is that sane confrontation spirit?
go kill him
I voted you for moderator. You promised to free us from outlawyers and students
I just found an amazing thing
@belisarius what is an outlawyer?
@belisarius I promised only one thing:
Sep 16 '12 at 18:15, by R.M
I promise to peg the Argentinian peso to the Infix
06:21
@rcollyer An outlawyer is a toad by another name
@belisarius ah.
I have to go and get back to my revisions. Ugh. Hopefully, I will be done with them tomorrow. :P
Night all.
@belisarius You mean an outlaw, although outlawyer gives me a new perspective on lawyers =)
@rcollyer The best luck!
@Hypnotoad That was the intention
@belisarius thanks. Now if I can get this thing to log me out ...
if you ping @rcollyer he compulsively pops back in
06:24
Please see this:
sol = {E^(-0.035 t) (1.085 Cos[0.31 t] + 2.95 Sin[0.31 t]), -1.1 Sin[
0.0 - 0.1 t]}
Now I plot this, one time with Chop and another without Chop. Colors go away
Plot[sol, {t, 0, 10}, PlotStyle -> {Red, Blue}]
Plot[Chop@sol, {t, 0, 10}, PlotStyle -> {Red, Blue}]
@Hypnotoad BASTARD!
... :)
Plot[Chop@sol, {t, 0, 10}, PlotStyle -> {Red, Blue}]
06:25
@Hypnotoad I was popping in to mention that only 6 more days to go, then I hit 365 consecutive.
@Nasser Evaluated-> True
@rcollyer I saw... to the best of my knowledge, you're the only one with full attendance. You're followed very closely by Sjoerd and myself
Yes. But why??
@Nasser 'cause I like it
:)
06:26
Ok
@Hypnotoad damn right. There can be only one.
@Nasser Search the site
good reason
I have 357
2 days! you missed 2 days?!? How could you?
06:27
@Hypnotoad How long does a toad live?
@rcollyer Actually, I technically missed neither... just that I didn't take any actions that counted (like voting)
@Hypnotoad You don't need to
just logging on
@Hypnotoad actually, if you look around enough, they'll count, too. I've gone weeks without voting.
@rcollyer yep
Seriously, this time. Good night all!
06:29
@rcollyer see ya
do people think that CDF's are used in industry as much as they ought to be. Other than Java applets, I do not see anything close to CDF's. But Java applets are dead now. But I do not see many site that use CDF's either
One can't even run Java applets in browser these days. I struggled 3 hrs today and could not run the applets that came with Java JDK 7 update 10 on any browser.
@belisarius @rcollyer Logging in doesn't count... (visiting other pages does). So if you login and read off the titles of the 50 questions on the home page (which is what I did on my vacation), it doesn't count unless you click on at least one
@Nasser Mma is related to science and perhaps some high tech industry. Those guys doesn't do much presentations
@Hypnotoad I can show you in private if you can delete a chat room forever afterwards
26
A: Consecutive days problem #97?

Jeff Atwood 2010-10-03 02:09:19 user accessed site 2010-10-02 06:32:30 login 2010-10-01 01:07:43 user accessed site We see a login on 10-2 but no access to internal pages (login pages, along with a number of other homepage style pages, don't count as "access").

@Hypnotoad Nope. Bullshit. I can show you
@Hypnotoad Hehe ... Jeff is wrong :D
06:36
lol
@belisarius Java applets used to be used for education. There are many sites that had java applets (which many do not work any more) but there are plenty there, many at schools site. I do not see the same with CDF's.
I just think many do not know about them. CDF's that is.
@Hypnotoad I was contacted by the SE staff about that. Tricking it is quite simple. But I promised not to spread the knowledge
Was this on SO?
@Hypnotoad yep
@Hypnotoad On every site, BTW
It's not a secret, since it was mentioned on MSO a few times (although, not the exact method)... but no one takes it as seriously as this guy
06:41
@Hypnotoad The "method" is just stupid. And the badge too. But I understand the SE's motives to keep it running
The "visit every day for a reward" has a really good effect on user retention... nearly half the ipad games implement some form of reward for visiting every 24 hrs. After 100 days, you're Pavlov's bitch
@Hypnotoad I think SE was the first enterprise that explored high tech & science guys vices. And they've done a great work. Perhaps the game industry precedes them by 15 years, but Jeff discovered a wide niche
OMG I won a badge for this stupid answer
10
A: Domain Coloring

belisariusHere is something quickly made, and similar to what you are after. You'll have to work out the details, though: HotColor[ z_ ] := Which[ 0 <= z <= 3/8, RGBColor[z 8/3, 0, 0], 3/8 <= z <= 6/8, RGBColor[1, (z - 3/8) 8/3, 0], True, RGBColor[1, 1, (z ...

life is difficult to understand
Hehe... enjoy! :)
@Hypnotoad BTW, now I'm at 20K. Do you know if the "four 20K users can demote a toad mod" motto is true?
@belisarius The rule says you'll need 4 non-mod users at the toad's rep bracket :/
06:55
@Hypnotoad Well, we're six now
Yeah, but 0 in 30–40k =)
@Hypnotoad btw, nine 20k users in a year seems a pretty good performance for a small site
@Hypnotoad and three more in a few days
Somehow, I'm proud of it
@belisarius Indeed! 9 20k+ and 20 10k+. Never thought we'd get this far, after all the kerfuffle last year (2011, actually)
@belisarius same here.
@Hypnotoad well, I myself resisted a lot before devoting.. I've thought the site's scope too narrow. But the mean user is outstanding.
@Hypnotoad I always have problems choosing when to use "mean" and when "average" is better. Could you explain?
@belisarius To be honest, I didn't think it'd be this successful either... ~5k questions in 1 year! I remember that someone posted (on the closed proposal) a chart showing that SO received only 2k questions in 3 years, so a new proposal for mma will not be viable. I've seen questions and uses here that I never would've thought of. In a lot of ways, SO was restraining the community
07:09
any one knows what happed to the Maple proposal to make a stackexchange site just for Maple like for Mathematica? someone (may be rm-rf) posted a link to this long time ago I remember, there was one vote for it. but I lost the link. I am just wondering if there will be a Maple group here like Mathematica
@Hypnotoad I continue to issue reopen votes on SO like this in one
1
Q: Mathematica code to draw a graph of this differential equation?

GravitasDoes anyone know the Mathematica code that will trace the graph below? Here is the equation for the graph, a second order linear differential equation with constant coefficients: Here is the graph traced by this equation: Quote from the book "Times Series Analysis and Forecasting By Exampl...

It was reopened at last
I think when M becomes more popular, we will have many more questions here. Now, there are not many questions actually.
I mean compared to Matlab group
@Nasser For a software package, popularity just doesn't come out of thin air. You've to engineer it, and WR isn't good at it
WRI has a marketing group.
@Nasser kill them all :)
07:13
may be they need to hire more marketing folks
before Julia takes over in few years (if it does ;)
@Nasser I personally think the design of Mathematica is beautiful. But I wasn't able to convince many people about that
it is hard for new users to use actually. I took a class where we had to use M, many struggled with the syntax. There is a steep learning curve that drives many away
also, functional style is not as common for many users.
@belisarius In idiomatic English usage, "average" is the word to use to informally convey "somewhere in the middle" — "Your performance is average", "The average rainfall is X", "On an average...". On the other hand, "mean", conveys an emphasis on the statistics and you'd use it when you're referring to sum(...)/N. Not to mention, in your usage above, "mean" could be interpreted as "nasty/rude"
@Hypnotoad Yep, I'm, aware of the "rude" meaning, and that is what I'm always trying to evade
@Hypnotoad Thanks a lot for the explanation
you're welcome :)
07:22
@Hypnotoad In Spanish there is only one word, "promedio". It's always difficult when your mother's tongue has less words for the same meaning
@Hypnotoad Have you read "Zen and the art of motorycle maintenance"?
@belisarius Yeah, that can be hard... Germans have the opposite problem — they probably also have a word for when a donkey computes the mean and they never know if the English "average" was calculated by an ass
3
starred :)
@belisarius Sadly, no. I've wanted to read it for a long time, but somehow dropped off my radar
@belisarius when referring to Spanish, it's mother tongue i.e., no 's, as otherwise it literally refers to your mom's tongue :D
@Hypnotoad Well, try to read it. A wonderful book Curiously, for a Spanish speaking folk half the book is trivial because we have two words for "quality", and the book uses 50 pages to explain to English readers the difference between them
@Hypnotoad yep, yep. My English is too rusted
07:42
I'm off to bed soon... good night @belisarius
08:06
@Hypnotoad g'night toad!
 
2 hours later…
10:20
The code to multiply a matrix with another matrix, using Java: I am really impressed.
I am sure it is very fast also.
11:59
@RolfMertig, thanks! will check it out
 
2 hours later…
13:41
Hello there, I need some help with Compile. I think I have the MinGW gcc set up correctly under Mathematica, though I keep getting `LibraryFunction::libload` and `Compile::nogen` errors when I try to compile to C. Any idea why? Here is my code:

Needs["CCompilerDriver`"]
$CCompiler = {
"Compiler" -> CCompilerDriver`GenericCCompiler`GenericCCompiler,
"CompilerInstallation" -> "C:\\Applications\\Programming\\MinGW",
"CompilerName" -> "gcc.exe"
};
f = Compile[{x}, x^2, CompilationTarget -> "C"];
And the errors:

LibraryFunction::libload: The function compiledFunction10 was not loaded from the file C:\Users\Z\AppData\Roaming\Mathematica\ApplicationData\CCompilerDriver\BuildFolder\uriel-3772\compiledFunction10.dll. >>

Compile::nogen: A library could not be generated from the compiled function. >>
Interestingly, this works without any problem:

Needs["CCompilerDriver`GenericCCompiler`"];
greeter = CreateExecutable[
StringJoin[
"#include <stdio.h>\nint main(){printf(\"Hello world.\");}"],
"hiworld",
"Compiler" -> GenericCCompiler,
"CompilerInstallation" -> "C:\\Applications\\Programming\\MinGW",
"CompilerName" -> "gcc.exe"
];
Import["!\"" <> greeter <> "\"", "Text"]
@IstvánZachar hi. 32-bit?
@Nasser probably fast enough given that you have to enter the matrix elements by hand to start with...
@RolfMertig Java 7 seems to have quite impressive FP performance. A far cry from the bad old days.
14:03
@IstvánZachar brb need to change a laser's wavelength
 
3 hours later…
16:40
@IstvánZachar 32 bit or 64 bit?
 
3 hours later…
20:03
@OleksandrR. @Szabolcs: hopefully everything is 64bit...
I asked mathematica.stackexchange.com/questions/17098/… for Fast Sieve implementation and reached to GCD. Is mathematica's GCD the fastest possible implementation?
@MohsenAfshin For as long as you're working in Mathematica, yes.
@Szabolcs, I mean isn't it possible to make a faster GCD customized for a type of numbers (here Primorial numbers)?
20:20
@IstvánZachar which MinGW distribution did you use?
@OleksandrR. Yes, I think I have 32bit MinGW. Let me get back after making sure I'm running 64bit gcc....
I'm pretty unfamiliar with c compilers as you could have guessed...
@IstvánZachar 32- or 64-bit MinGW doesn't exactly matter but you do need one capable of producing 64-bit executables (-m64).
But I guess 32bit MinGW is not capable
am I right?
@IstvánZachar if you mean "MinGW" proper then yes. The 64-bit-capable version is MinGW-w64.
Indeed. I just realized that MinGW does not have 64 bit version (sourceforge.net/projects/mingw/files/MinGW/Base/gcc/Version4/…)
20:25
By the way, the instructions in the documentation about how to make MinGW-w64 work are complete nonsense. You need to do a lot more, including regenerating libraries in GNU COFF format and editing the source code (MinGWCompiler.m). If you're interested in saving time I would recommend using Visual C++ instead.
huhh. That sounds frightening enough for me.
So that settles: Visual C++ then.
@IstvánZachar instructions here...
I forgot to mention there that you have to have .Net 4 installed before all this.
@OleksandrR. Thanks, I'll try to put everything together
I'm sure that I have .Net 4. At least I'm sure of one thing : )
20:36
@Mohsen Afshin Re fast GCD, how does one tailor that for e.g. primorials? I mean, if you know it's a primorial, then there's not much to do and you don't need a GCD for that.
@IstvánZachar more info related to MinGW-w64: forums.wolfram.com/mathgroup/archive/2012/Jun/msg00323.html. But you can ignore this if you just want to use Visual C++.
@OleksandrR. I am really grateful for your help, thanks for the links!
I think I'll go with the Visual C++
21:07
@OleksandrR. well, the basics needed by Compile do work with those instructions ...
But yes, Visual C++ is a much better choice
@Szabolcs well, that is true I suppose, but hardly anything else works normally without either MathLink or the "Wolfram Runtime"
21:44
@OleksandrR. Have you considered making that mathgroup post into a blogpost here on mma.se? I think it would make a wonderful blog post, could help some people and the mma.se blog could use the traffic as well:)
@OleksandrR. Thanks a lot again, I successfully set up the Visual C++ compiler, and it works now as a charm! One magnitude of speed-increase compared even to the WMV-compiled code, woohoo!
 
1 hour later…

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