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2:03 AM
I think my install is acting a little flaky. Over the past couple of days, I've noticed it take a long time to do simple tasks. First, there's the complete lack of syntax highlighting for symbols from packages. Second, some tasks seem to send the kernel into an infinite loop. The most recent one: at some point it will be unable to Import a "TABLE". I've run a check on the hd to verify that it wasn't the hd itself that was at issue. But, it is getting frustrating.
Closing down seems to work, for a time. Is there any way to verify my installation? Should I ask this on the main site?
 
2:29 AM
Never mind about Import. It appears I have a resource leak in my code, to the tune of ~31000 InputStreams. Yep, you read that right. Have to figure out why they weren't closed. :(
For the curious, I was using StringToStream to Read in an array of numbers in a line loaded from a file, and was forgetting to Close the Stream. So, for each file, I kept building up more and more streams, and likely Import was having a hard time getting its hands on one. StringToStream is evil, and a better method for converting a String to a number has to be devised. Or, just ensure it is wrapped appropriately. :P
Hi @RM and @CHM
 
CHM
@rcollyer was going to say Hi.
 
R.M
Hi :)
 
CHM
After reading your paragraphs.
 
They're somewhat embarrassing. Especially, the ~31000 open streams. No wonder my system was running a little weird.
 
CHM
Hah!
31K, how did you manage that...
 
R.M
2:43 AM
@rcollyer I remember reading something like that here
 
Still doesn't explain the highlighting issue ...
 
CHM
Well, there's something good about MMA not failing.
It could easily have.
 
R.M
Feb 14 at 14:11, by Szabolcs
@MrWizard Perhaps it'd be useful to include a link to that "cautionary tale". It's not at all obvious that it's so important to close streams. He was using StringToStream exactly for the same purpose, and that's how he ended up with a gazillion open streams.
 
CHM
@RM Lol.
 
R.M
That's in reference to some question here
 
CHM
2:44 AM
Ok
 
Hmm, missed that conversation.
I had even set up the code with a CheckAbort to specifically ensure that it would reach the Close, but never included the Close line. (pun intended.)
 
CHM
Just in case you guys didn't read the chat logs: evaluate this: Experimental`Explore[]
 
R.M
yup, have had plenty of fun with it :)
 
CHM
=)
 
2:48 AM
@CHM Simple, sometimes the only way to easily process a file is to read it in line by line, and determine what to do with it then. Unfortunately, there is not a great way to convert 1.19273e-10 to a number MMA can understand, hence StringToStream and Read.
 
CHM
Such functionality has to become official, it'll help the newbies a lot, especially the non-programmer newbies.
 
R.M
@rcollyer why is that hard to convert?
 
CHM
@rcollyer does it average it to 0?
 
They're mixed in with Integers.
@CHM nope.
@RM Also, it requires hand crafted code. I'd prefer a built-in mechanism.
 
CHM
Ok.
 
2:50 AM
For what it's worth, the values dealt with magnetic quadrupoles, so they're not large to begin with.
 
R.M
Too small is also a problem :)
 
Yeah, they're on the scale of immeasurable.
 
R.M
you're just converting to double, right?
 
yep.
 
R.M
Internal`StringToDouble[string] does it
2
 
2:55 AM
Damnit. I hate finding out about such functions.
 
R.M
Thank Oleksandr for that :) I did not know about it before he mentioned it here
 
That's one that should be exposed.
 
R.M
Found the link so you can thank him :)
 
CHM
Why aren't those functions documented?
 
R.M
Because they're for internal use and will probably never be documented according to DL (and probably won't disappear either)
 
3:01 AM
Honestly, some of them should be promoted to general use.
 
R.M
Bag/StuffBag is pretty neat and interesting. I got a chance to use it in a recent answer
 
I'm curious about the Handler subsystem.
@RM upvoted it, too.
 
CHM
@RM well my next question is how do you find out about such functions?
 
type ?Internal`*
it gives the full list.
 
CHM
Thanks
Good to know.
 
R.M
3:06 AM
@CHM In general, I search for stuff with *`*foo* for anything that might have foo in it. Since Mathematica is pretty verbose, it is very likely that a few trials will point you to interesting stuff
 
There is no documentation to accompany them. so, experiment at your own risk.
 
CHM
@RM ok
 
Hmm, this looks like it could be interesting, although it's likely just a flag: Internal`CompileOnDemand.
 
CHM
Well can't you look inside the MX files for more information?
 
R.M
The MX files are only machine readable, not human.
 
CHM
3:09 AM
I just know that it exists, never used it.
 
R.M
@CHM I'm reasonably certain that it can only read mx files that you've created on your system... but then again, I don't tinker much with these, so don't take my word for it
 
CHM
Well you're probably right. WRI must sign/encrypt their source.
Actually, let me try it.
One minute and we'll have our answer (should have).
Wrong "magic number".
Has got to do with my version of MMA.
 
Which means they've specified a key that is known internally.
Oddly, this question did not have a straightforward explanation. It went a little deeper than I thought it would.
Night all.
Before I go, I must say the lack of presence of one of our moderators has begun to annoy me. Especially since he finds the time to visit other sites.
 
R.M
3:34 AM
@rcollyer well, I'm sure they have their reasons. Also, we were notified of it in advance, so we should be patient. Besides, not all network moderators have the sites they moderate as their primary activity site :)
 
CHM
@rcollyer Hmm.. I saw he posted on Bio, too.
I'm not annoyed, just surprised.
 
I was fine with it while he wasn't posting at all. Now, I'm starting to get annoyed. Oh well.
@RM ;)
 
R.M
I don't know if Sjoerd and Mr.Wizard are flooded with flags and mod stuff to do, but if they are, I'm sure they'll let SE know to add more. In the mean time, there's plenty of us to do the routine closing + deletion.
 
CHM
Magic number wrong: 1075838976 not 1075052544
 
R.M
@CHM who are you drunk dialling? ;)
 
3:39 AM
@RM I understand. I don't think they're flooded. Just frustrated. As I said, oh well.
@RM someonenot in the states.
 
CHM
@RM that perl MX dissassembler :P
 
Definitely something to get drunk over.
Now that I'm no longer flooding my system with open streams, good night.
 
R.M
@CHM I thought perl scripts were the byproduct of drunk typing :P
Anyway, I got to go now. Good night all.
 
CHM
Night @ both
 
4:12 AM
Hmmm ?Explore`*
It's a pity that this functionality doesn't work on ListPlot or DateListPlot.
I just contributed the last remaining delete vote for this question but I felt a bit bad about it, given the highly voted answers on it. I'm wondering if we shouldn't have some guidelines on what to do with marginal questions that attract good answers.
 
R.M
@Verbeia ah, so that explained the drop in rep :) I was confused, because the rep history didn't show "removed"... maybe it just hasn't updated its cache
@Verbeia well, it only takes 3 2k/4k users to vote to undelete, so we'll take each one as it comes... guidelines for such cases only makes it messy and to be honest, will be fringe cases. Either way, I am not voting to undelete this, nor do I disagree with the deletion.
 
4:33 AM
@RM I lost a small amount of rep too, at just the wrong moment to send me down the rankings. I had managed to maintain position #10 for quite a while despite travelling all last week and not really seeing any questions I can answer for a few days.
So I suppose my delete vote will be seen as above board :)
 
CHM
"80 days later…

CHM
0:35
Wow. 80 days without chat. Is that a record?"
 
@CHM where is that?
 
CHM
Theoretical physics.
@Verbeia what was the question you vote-closed?
 
CHM
@Verbeia I don't have mod privs :)
I haven't passed the 1000 rep mark yet.
Forget the 2K one.
 
4:42 AM
Oh, right, sorry. Well, have to get to answering more questions or asking some questions that gets everyone interested and upvoting :)
 
CHM
Hehe. I'll do when I have questions! Most questions that are asked here, I couldn't answer.
Too young an MMA user.
 
@CHM That's ok - much of my rep has come from questions. I have been using Mathematica for a long time, but on and off.
 
CHM
Off-topic: I hadn't realised, until an hour ago, that there were Physics and Theoretical Physics stacks. Wonder why they split.
 
@CHM No idea, but there might be something about it in their Area 51 pages?
 
CHM
Nothing obvious, no.
I haven't looked thoroughly, though.
 
4:49 AM
Being an economist, what the physicists do is not something I track closely (even though economists are said to suffer "physics envy")
Interestingly, economics.SE is not getting much traffic, and yet there is a proposal for a "Research Economics" stack.
 
CHM
Hmmm.
Weird, lol.
I thought about something, for site statistics.
 
I don't know why anyone's surprised at the lack of traffic on econ.SE. First, there are no right answers in economics (but lots of wrong ones). Second, the people best placed to give certain answers are legally not allowed to. (e.g. central bankers with strict policies on what they may say publicly).
 
CHM
@Verbeia BTW, my internet might fail. If it does, I'm going to bed. If I stop answering, you'll know why xD
Hmm..
Well, I'm surprised that there's a "Research Economics" proposal, as well as an Economics beta.
Just like what is going on with Theo.Phys and Phys.
But about the site statistics... I've thought about compounding every indicator into one, like this: Questions per day * Percent answered * (avid users/total users) * Answer ratio * Visits per day
Which means, nothing probably, but it might be an indicator of site health if the number is divided by total days in beta.
I should modify my code to compile the list for all betas... just too lazy now.
FWIW.
@Verbeia waste of time, or give it a go?
 
 
4 hours later…
F'x
9:15 AM
@CHM the indicator of site health is better obtained as a derivative (i.e. evolution of the last N days divided by N), because a site may be healthy even if it started very slowly
well, tomorrow Mathematica.SE will have spent 90 days in beta
 
@Fx According to my profile I've been visiting the site for 91 days. I wonder what happened to those extra 2 days.
 
F'x
@Heike maybe your days last 23 hours and 28 minutes?
and my profile says "visited 34 days, 30 consecutive"… shiny shiny badge!
 
@Fx That would explain why time seems to fly by so fast.
 
F'x
@Heike plus, if your missing minutes are between say 3 and 4am in your local time, you'd really never notice them missing
do you have a hard time waking up? tired much in the morning?
 
@Fx Maybe that extra time is stored somewhere and released again during boring meetings.
 
F'x
9:26 AM
those are classical symptoms of hypoemeresis (from Greek ὑπό, under + ημέρες, days)
2
I've been a sufferer for a long time: days are too short
 
 
4 hours later…
1:14 PM
@rcollyer @rcollyer I import files with strings like yours (#.###e##) and have just used "TSV" as the import method `Import["filename.txt","TSV"], and then added my own wrapper to strip out our usual headers and column info.
 
1:38 PM
@tkott That's why I was using Import[..., "TABLE"]. The issue with the particular file was there was a lot of formatting that I wanted to preserve.
@CHM Physics gets a lot of low-level/crackpotish questions that is off-putting to serious researchers. Not that I can answer questions on Theoretical Physics, but I prefer it over the other one.
@Heike For some reason, Area51 started recording towards the end of the first day, not at the beginning.
 
@rcollyer I've found "TSV" to be much more reliable than "Table" for importing data. Then again, there's no formatted type things that I need to preserve. What kind of info are you storing, out of curiosity?
 
1:59 PM
@rcollyer another approach I've sometimes used is to use a regex to replace "e" in scientific format numbers with "*^", which can then be understood directly using e.g. ToExpression. (Seems to me that "*^" is really not widely used at all in the community? Personally I use it all the time.)
 
@tkott For the files I was using Import[...,"Table"] on, they're just the results from a density functional calculation: one line per calculation with all data being floating point numbers.
 
@OleksandrR I use the "e" notation everywhere. It seems to be the universally* accepted norm. (* = Matlab / LabView / MMA / Origin)
 
@tkott yes, but point is, Mathematica can't understand it. It uses "*^" in place of "e".
 
@OleksandrR I prefer "*10^", and get annoyed with my students when they write using "e". :)
@OleksandrR True, but Internal`StringToDouble does what I need.
 
@rcollyer totally agree. Sometimes I see papers with the "e" exponentiation. It annoys me greatly.
 
2:03 PM
@OleksandrR That slipped past the editors?!? Wow.
To me, it is fine if it is discussing the exact output from some code. But, not if discussing the value itself.
 
@rcollyer for papers published in (e.g.) Elsevier journals some people use Excel for generating the figures...
 
I know. Unfortunately.
APS accepts submissions in Word.
 
Also some fields of computer science publish conference papers rather than journal articles. The standards for presentation are a lot lower there than in the natural sciences, it seems.
 
I shudder to think of the tool chain required to convert that to SGML. (Submissions in Word, that is.)
 
@rcollyer embarrassingly, I've submitted a paper as a Word document. But not with Excel-generated figures. (This was sent to J. Chem. Phys.)
 
2:06 PM
@OleksandrR AIP?
 
@rcollyer yeah.
 
They probably share the tool-chain then.
 
@OleksandrR Right, I guess you can't write "1.0e10" in MMA, but it does understand it when importing files using "Table", "CSV", or "TSV", which is all I care about :)
 
Although, thinking about it, the newer versions of Word have an xml format (dumbed down SGML), so conversion might not be that difficult.
@tkott Exactly why I wanted to use a built-in tool.
 
@rcollyer most likely. To be honest I found it a bit annoying how their typesetting resulted in highly uneven line spacing when certain lines contain characters with accents (e.g. overtilde) or large superscripts or subscripts.
 
2:08 PM
That sounds like fun.
@OleksandrR What was the paper on?
 
Spectroscopy of a small molecule. I would give the reference but of course I published under my real name...
 
@rcollyer yeah, good to know about Internal`StringToDouble[]
 
Okay, must go. Data analysis calls. Bye all.
 
@tkott I wish I had known about it before creating nearly 31000 open string streams. It's nice to know, I can still find creative ways to bring MMA to its knees.
 
@rcollyer Oh, I seem to do that just by forcing it to use multi-GB of ram and it shutting down the kernel. Pretty common occurence when trying to do matrix equation solving and simplifying.
@rcollyer I haven't graduated yet to the need for quirky ways of bringing down MMA :)
 
2:19 PM
@tkott Oh, I'm getting to that part of the data processing stage, again. But, it will have to wait a few days while I get other calculations up and running. Then, look out.
That does a very good job of bringing mma to its knees. :)
Although, that was on v.6. I hope v.8 fairs better.
To get that working, I had to downsample the function. I'd prefer to use an InterpolatedFunction, but that doesn't seem likely.
Later.
 
 
2 hours later…
CHM
4:50 PM
@rcollyer then Physics is like Biology (crap). I just hope the upcoming Chemistry beta doesn't fall prey to stupidity.
@rcollyer I figured (as many others have, obviously) ultrasonography would be a good way to measure blood flow. Turns out the gods of Biology don't like ultrasonography.
@Fx Agreed, but I'd have to learn how to use the SE API... gneh. From the couple of calculations I made, the number was around 2.9 K.
It seemed roughly stable, before adjusting for time in beta.
 
F'x
5:35 PM
@OleksandrR I have submitted a J Chem Phys today, but a LaTeX manuscript (although I had to convince the senior author first)
 
5:46 PM
@Fx That sounds frustrating.
Here's an interesting idea for an IDE. The Table format reminds me of the Notebook interface in Mathematica. Personally, I'd like the ability to visually trace through my code like in the link, though.
 
 
2 hours later…
7:22 PM
Talking about cutting it close. The disk drive in my macbook broke today. Luckily it's covered by applecare but apparently that's expiring in 4 days time, so I'll have to find an apple shop tomorrow and hope they can repair it within the next three days.
 
CHM
@Heike viva AppleCare.
I've gotten 1000$'s worth of reparations on my MBP just before christmas, for the 300$ AppleCare cost me.
@Heike you should call them, in case you don't find an apple store.
I'm sure they'll extend your warranty until you find one.
 
@CHM I just hope they'll count the day I brought it in for the guarantee and not the day it's being repaired.
 
CHM
No no no. Once you talk to the clerk and register your product for repair, it's over.
You're good, I mean.
 
@CHM There's an official apple reseller in the city where I live. I'm pretty sure the do repairs (or can at least send it away to get it repaired)
@CHM I hope so.
I've heard good things about apple customer service
 
CHM
I had my screen, keyboard and HDD all replaced in about 1h30, in one night. The guy told me I'd have to come back in two days. He called me back once I was getting in my house "Uh, sir, we've repaired your computer"
@Heike it is good, if you pay for it.
 
7:26 PM
@CHM That's quick.
@CHM I only paid £40,- for my apple care, so that's at least less than a new superdrive
 
CHM
If customer service wasn't excellent, I'd see absolutely no reason to pay a premium to get an Apple product. I'd get a cheaper PC with linux. Customer care is priceless, especially when your computer is a workhorse.
@Heike 40 pounds? How long are you protected?
 
@CHM Three years
 
CHM
o.O
 
It bought it together with my macbook
 
CHM
/feels ripped off
 
7:28 PM
Applecare is much more expensive if you buy it separately
 
CHM
I bought it with the laptop, too. That's weird.
 
Maybe it was a special, or your macbook is more expensive than mine.
 
CHM
But then, my cousin called me yesterday: she bought an MBP at a re-seller. She also bought Office Mac. The clerk asked her if she wanted them to install Office, she said yes, and paid the 70$ he asked for the installation.
 
The only other problem I can see is that I bought my macbook in the UK but am living in the Netherlands at the moment.
 
CHM
No, maybe I was being dumb, and didn't inform myself well enough.
@Heike maybe there are different tariffs, yeah.
(I was disappointed of my cousin, 70$ for a couple of clicks... what a rip-off)
Anyway, gotta get some work done. Good afternoon!
 
7:31 PM
@CHM $70 for installing Word?
Good bye
 
CHM
@Heike yes. Ri-di-cu-fuckin'-lous
 
 
1 hour later…
8:34 PM
@Fx good question about the new potatoes on cooking.SE
 
8:48 PM
@CHM I would've thought a more likely reason you were downvoted is that blood flow through a certain blood vessel and total blood volume aren't directly related, and if you know the dimensions of all blood vessels (an unlikely proposition if you include all capillaries etc...), you already know enough to calculate total volume without caring about flow rate.
@Fx I'm not really familiar with TeX; I gather not a lot of people in chemistry departments are (and most of us seem to use Windows too!). For TeX submissions to AIP, do you get a template, like with APS journals, so you can lay it all out as you like and make sure the typesetting is okay? Or are you still at their mercy to convert what you give them into a correctly typeset article?
 
CHM
9:03 PM
@OleksandrR true, there's bound to be an approximation made somewhere.
 
F'x
@EliLansey thanks, I feel really frustrated about that one :)
@OleksandrR the template is called RevTeX, and it's somewhat standard TeX class; but they still perform some translation into their own markup language, and errors can be introduced (I remember from an earlier article)
 
@CHM you would presumably have to assume a single time constant for recirculating all of the blood through that blood vessel (highly unrealistic), ormeasure a hierarchy of vessels (quite involved). Also a single blood vessel doesn't have a constant volume; they expand and contract depending on the dynamic blood pressure.
 
CHM
@OleksandrR yes indeed.
All of the methods proposed involve a fair amount of guesswork. I just enjoy complaining about Biology.SE
 
@CHM do you get to keep the previous (broken) hard disk? I've never been inclined to take up warranties on hard disks; I'd rather securely destroy them myself. (The ones with glass platters are nice for that...)
 
@Fx maybe it's a question for theoretical physics.SE ? :)
 
CHM
9:16 PM
@OleksandrR no. I was frustrated about that too, but I figured I had mostly school stuff on there. I lost a year's worth of lab reports, which was heart breaking, but nothing else really important.
I had an old back up (I back up regularly now) with all my music and pictures. When I reinstalled OSX, I did it using their security configuration guides
I'd feel less bad if my disk were to fail me again.
@OleksandrR I think the only thing the AppleCare warranty doesn't cover is the battery. It's pretty extensive.
 
@CHM I guess you can encrypt your data on disk to begin with and then delete the decryption key before you hand it over for service. But even so, it's not ideal.
@CHM sounds good. Personally I don't use a laptop and Mac OS confuses and frightens me, so not really something I've looked into.
 
CHM
@Fx I've updated my question, to which you already answered.
@OleksandrR After spending my youth with Winderp, the move to OSX was a godsend.
 
@CHM I find Windows and Linux absolutely fine. But OS X, I cannot understand at all.
 
CHM
9:31 PM
Hmm.. well, OSX should feel familiar if you're at ease with Linux.
 
@CHM probably if you do everything at the terminal. It's the GUI that I find confusing. Everything about it just seems unintuitive. On the other hand, maybe it's that I haven't had enough experience using it to give it a fair chance.
Not sure if the same would be true of Ubuntu's new Unity UI or Gnome Shell, neither of which I've used either. Standard Gnome and KDE seem usable enough, although 99.5% of what I do on Linux is at the terminal over ssh anyway.
 
CHM
Which would explain your unfamiliarity with OSX.
 
@CHM I think I'm just not really a "GUI person".
 

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