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00:00 - 17:0017:00 - 00:00

5:00 PM
@JM not sure i understand what you're saying
 
@EliLansey You've said that Reduce[] choked on it; sounds like something that won't let itself be analyzed...
 
@JM well, it didn't choke. it kept on chugging, but I ran out of memory.
the thing is
even a "simple" transendental equation like
Tan[x] == -a x
reduce cant do
but RootSearch is awesome at
Reduce[{Tan[x] == -a x, a [Element] Reals, a > 0}, x, Reals]
Reduce::nsmet: This system cannot be solved with the methods available to Reduce.
 
@EliLansey On the other hand, that particular transcendental equation has been analyzed like heck... :)
 
True, but that's not the point
RootSearch[Tan[x] == -2 x, {x, 0, 20}] has no trouble whatsoever
 
What I'm saying is: there's a need to combine some mathematical effort with throwing it in Mathematica.
 
5:08 PM
yeah, i hear that...
 
posted on February 17, 2012 by Wolfram Blog Team

For 22 years, Wolfram Research has been developing technology to allow subject matter experts to bring their ideas and documents to life with interactivity. This week, as part of his keynote at the O’Reilly Tools of Change for Publishing Conference, Theodore Gray, Co-founder of Wolfram Research and Founder of Touch Press, gave the first demonstration [...]

 
boo :(
i want mathematica to do my thinking for me
@StackExchange whoa! that's cool
shame i dont have an ipad
 
@EliLansey Transcendental equations tend not to give that kind of luxury...
 
@JM yeah, the stinkers
 
There's no equivalent of Gröbner bases for transcendentals, for one.
 
5:12 PM
wish i knew what that meant :)
 
Basically, they're a systematic way to handle general algebraic equations.
 
You know Gaussian elimination, I presume?
 
yah
 
Gröbner bases generalize the notion of eliminating variables to multivariate polynomials.
 
5:14 PM
oh, ok.
so i know what you're talking about, didnt know its name
[btw, just dicosvered your blog - way cool stuff.]
[any chance of a "full feed" in the RSS?]
 
@EliLansey Full feed of what?
 
of the blog posts
 
@EliLansey ...and in fact Mathematica has the function GroebnerBasis[]. :)
 
i tend to read blogs in google reader
@JM sweet day!
 
@EliLansey which blog, mine? Doesn't WordPress already associate an RSS feed with each blog in its system?
 
5:16 PM
@JM yes. but if you look at the RSS it's just the first few lines of the post. there's gotta be a setting in wordpress somewhere to include the full contents of the post
 
@EliLansey Ah, I'll have to look into that later...
 
@JM ok, cool
 
6:13 PM
Why is Robert moving this?
16
Q: 30 days beta, or: how to improve my confetti code?

David30 days running and excellent statistics on Area 51, congratulations to all participants! However, there is no time to rest. First of all, we need proper decoration. Here's some confetti: Graphics@Table[{ RGBColor @@ RandomReal[{0, 1}, 3], Translate[#, RandomVariate[NormalDistribution[]...

 
Wat
That's clearly not a meta question.
 
@MrWizard I also can't understand. I think that if you remove "Q:30 days beta" from the title there will be no doubt on its place in the main...
 
6:30 PM
16
Q: How to improve my confetti code?

David30 days running and excellent statistics on Area 51, congratulations to all participants! However, there is no time to rest. First of all, we need proper decoration. Here's some confetti: Graphics@Table[{ RGBColor @@ RandomReal[{0, 1}, 3], Translate[#, RandomVariate[NormalDistribution[]...

Done! Migrate it back. :-)
 
I am waiting for an explanation from Robert. Maybe it's a plot to deny Heike votes. ;-p
 
She has the Waldo topic.
This is nothing.
Time to leave in protest. Later
 
I hate it when SE employees jut in and do what they think is right when they know nothing about the subject... thought they'd have learnt from the math.se and Jeff sagas...
2
 
@MrWizard I thought it was a ploy so that everyone could vote again.
 
or downvote without losing rep =)
 
6:41 PM
0
Q: Injecting a sequence of expressions into a held expression

SzabolcsConsider the following toy example: Hold[{1, 2, x}] /. x -> Sequence[3, 4] It will give Hold[{1, 2, Sequence[3, 4]}] because Sequence[] (like Unevaluated) is expanded only in the first level of heads with attribute HoldAll. How can I obtain Hold[{1,2,3,4}]? What is the simplest way to...

 
@yoda don't you lose rep if you downvote on meta?
 
@Heike no. there's no rep on meta... rep is derived from the main site, so all privileges you have on main will be available on meta
@Szabolcs is that a place holder for the trott-stre* trick?
 
@yoda Not really, but if you can solve it using that trick, please post and answer!
It's a real problem I am having.
@MrWizard How do you know who migrated it?
 
@Szabolcs you follow the trail back to the main site
 
There should be at least some justification, or some chance to get an explanation. This was a misguided move.
 
acl
6:51 PM
@Szabolcs in your question, you do not want to evaluate the list at all, right? ie, if I had a=5; Hold[{a, 2, x}] /. x -> Sequence[3, 4], you'd like Hold[{a,2,3,4}] and not Hold[{5,2,3,4}], right?
 
@acl Correct. Nothing should be evaluated, I merely need to replace x with more than one expression.
In my real code I have a Do in place of List, that must not evaluate.
 
@Szabolcs does this page not give that information? If not, oops.
 
yes, it does
 
@MrWizard Not sure if I'm stepping on your toes, but would you rather I shut up and let you do the talking?
 
@Szabolcs Not sure if this would work in your case, but you could do something like f[x__] := Hold[{1, 2, x}]; f[3, 4]
 
6:59 PM
@yoda speak your mind
 
@MrWizard thanks :)
 
acl
@Heike yes, otherwise you need to force evaluation only at a particular position. may be possible, but how?
eg this does not work:
expr = Hold[Do[1, 2, x]];
pos = Position[expr, x] \[Rule] Sequence[3, 4];
MapAt[
 Evaluate,
 expr /. x \[Rule] Sequence[3, 4],
 pos[[1]]
 ]
 
@yoda actually I really must be going. Try not to rock the boat too much while I'm away. ;-)
 
@Heike If you can package that up into a flattenSequence function, then please post an answer! I must go home now, will be offline for an hour
 
@acl It would be nice to have a ReleaseHoldAt
 
7:05 PM
@Heike We have the point-evaluation trick for that, but I didn't manage to get it working here: stackoverflow.com/questions/6633236/…
 
@MrWizard I won't :)
 
@Heike I am betting for your original idea
@yoda Do you think Tomas (or someone else) flagged it? (See the last comment)
 
@Szabolcs Tomas didn't flag it. I don't know if someone else did, but it is entirely possible that Robert saw it himself because it was on top of the SE hot questions list all day
 
Oh, that explains it.
 
I don't think anyone flagged it, although Mr.Wiz can know for sure.
 
7:09 PM
Well, admittedly the criteria for accepting an answer are subjective (which solution is prettier?) but I don't think that makes it a bad question. There is a clear problem (making pretty confetti pictures or animations), and several solutions were posted.
 
acl
@Szabolcs it is also inconsistent; why not move the undo question, which is much less likely to receive an objectively "correct" answer?
 
@Szabolcs What if you don't use replacement but something like that: f[x_] := "Evaluated"; Function[Hold[Do[f[1], ##]]][{i, 5}, {j, 5}]
See that f[1] does not get evaluated and is still hold.
 
@halirutan okay ... it's complicated to explain what's wrong with this
@halirutan let me try, maybe it will work
 
It's basically the same style which I used in the Newton Fractal I posted yesterday, where you need one part to be evaluated and the rest of the expression must stay untouched. Yours is a bit harder though
 
7:26 PM
@halirutan can you post an answer?
 
@Szabolcs np
 
I don't know which one to accept yet, but this should work too
 
@Szabolcs Ladies first
 
I think both my and @halirutan's solution are basically doing the same thing. I like @halirutan's better though.
 
@Szabolcs And maybe you shouldn'd be too fast with accepting. Maybe there come a hell of a post from Leonid from which we all can learn
 
7:42 PM
@halirutan You might know the answer to this: what's the best way to collect results in a compiled function when the number of results is not known? AppendTo is slow (O(n^2)) and Reap/Sow are not available.
OK, I'm reading this, which I did not do last time
@halirutan but maybe you can just tell me if reading that post in detail will answer my question
 
I've been looking at 500's question here and could use some help reasoning through a couple of things.
They are wanting to test whether the images pairs are symmetric. I would expect that the first thing one would want to do is reflect the second image in the pair over the y-axis via Transpose[{-1,1}*Transpose[ data ]]. Does this make sense?
 
(Got it, I'm already using it.)
 
@AndyRoss Wouldn't you want to do something like Reverse /@ data?
Oh, wait, I think I have a different idea of what data is
 
@Heike beat me to it :)
 
500's pictures look like black cats washing themselves.
 
7:58 PM
The reason I ask is that the results surprised me a bit. I looked at the euclidean distances between spatial medians (and just plain old means). The images all "look" symmetrical but these distances are seem to be approximately normal centered at 2.
This would suggest that they aren't symmetrical but my gut tells me I must have done something wrong in either the transformation or by using EuclideanDistance to compare.
 
Just looking at them suggests to me that the left ones are shifted to the right compared to the right ones
 
@AndyRoss I think the images should at least be registered rigidely. This would select effectively the transformation where the distance is minimal.
 
@halirutan I'm not sure what you mean by registered rigidely
 
@halirutan The problem is that I am collecting vectors, and a compiled Bag doesn't want to hold those
 
Sorry, rigid image registration
 
8:04 PM
@AndyRoss How do you know what the centre line is when mirroring the image?
 
@AndyRoss Transform them with translation, rotation, scaling, .. so that they match best.
 
@Heike This is a good point. I assumed based on the look of the data how they were reflected. I'll give that some more thought.
 
ImageAlign can do that
 
@Heike but wouldn't this artificially make the images more similar?
 
Got to run, but here's another question:
0
Q: Collecting results inside a compiled function

SzabolcsWhen we don't know the number of results that will be generated, the usual way to collect results is Reap/Sow. Another alternative is linked lists. Neither of these are available in compiled functions. AppendTo does work, but it has an $O(n^2)$ complexity, so it will be unacceptably slow for l...

 
8:10 PM
@AndyRoss If you transform all images with the same rigid transformation they should be comparable.
I don't know if {0,0} in the data file corresponds to the centre of the cards so they could all be shifted to the right for example.
 
@Heike got it. Thanks!
 
Hmm, Robert has now closed the confetti question
 
Oh good. He said he'd do that so that we can reopen. Please vote
 
Oh, ok
 
He said he was ok with simply closing it and leaving it to us to reopen a while ago.. we could've done it if the mods were around, but users can't migrate back from meta
but the condition was that we try to polish it into a proper question with a goal — i.e., "How can I blah this confetti code to use Heike's IRL research to make it realistic"
 
8:27 PM
I'm not sure if my research should be involved in this.
 
acl
@yoda wow Heike researches the Indy Racing League?
 
@acl That's my second job besides working for the CIA
 
either way, he wasn't too happy with the question in its current form in which it was more of a party question and no clear objective
 
acl
@Heike damn and I'm stuck with bosons and fermions
 
@acl At least you get to create black holes
 
8:30 PM
I guess we're ok... we've been pretty good about our site and scope and closing off-topic/discussiony questions, so a little fun once in a while is good. I guess the fun was had by all, then some drama, and now back to business =)
 
acl
@Heike unfortunately I don't, I am at the opposite extreme of energies
 
ohh.. still needs a mod. All the answers are deleted (I forgot if that happens after a reopen)
 
@yoda I managed to undelete my own question
So the others should be able to undelete their answers as well.
 
smart. get further ahead, while the rest sleep =)
Do you see an undelete link on the other answers?
 
@yoda I've reached my cap today anyway, so there's not much point
@yoda yes, it's on the same line as the name of the answerer etc.
 
8:35 PM
@Heike meh, don't care... was just kidding anyway :)
@Heike yeah, well.. 3 4k+ users can undelete.. so if Leonid and Szabolcs can chip in, you can do it before JM/Wizard return
alright, I'm off now. Happy confetti!
 
bye
 
@CHM It's a long story.
 
CHM
hehe. ok.
 
acl
@CHM it'll get reopened
 
9:19 PM
@MrWizard Seriously, get some sleep, now! I am worried about you
 
9:36 PM
Okay all, Szabolcs has sent me to bed. Bye!
 
acl
9:51 PM
OK, this question has 7 upvotes:
7
Q: Measure a DensityHistogram[] pair similarity

500I study human vision and more specifically eye-movements. "If we display 2 symmetrical patterns (20 min one after the other), will our gaze distribution be symmetric is my research question." The 2 figures at the bottom row below is what is displayed to subjects for 3 seconds. One pattern, then...

as far as I can tell, the real question is "what is a good measure of similarity in this context", which isn't really a well-defined question on mma. am i missing something? I don't want to downvote it or anything, just trying to understand
 
10:11 PM
Using Kullback–Leibler divergence?
 
acl
@Szabolcs is this an answer to my question?
 
No, it is not... just related
I'm off, must sleep
 
acl
10:33 PM
night
 
CHM
has anybody read GEB?
 
acl
@CHM define read!
 
CHM
@acl I shall assume you have, then!
 
acl
it depends: over time I have probably read every sentence in there, but never the whole thing at one go. it's too much for me
 
CHM
ok.
 
acl
10:48 PM
are you currently reading it, then?
 
CHM
yes. Just finished Chapter 4.
 
acl
inspirational book
 
CHM
Up till now, it is the glue that sticks a lot of mathematical/logical concepts together - things I've read on Wikipedia, or that I've been only briefly introduced.
Maybe it'll get worse.
 
acl
not really, it doesn't get worse as it progresses
 
CHM
have you read NKS?
 
acl
10:56 PM
i superficially read some parts
 
posted on February 17, 2012 by Crystal Fantry

Are you looking for a great way to spend your summer? We are happy to announce the Mathematica Summer Camp 2012! Held at Curry College in Milton, Massachusetts, students will have the opportunity to learn Mathematica’s language, apply their skills in other disciplines, and program their very own Wolfram Demonstrations! Students will also work individually [...]

 
CHM
@acl interesting, or overrated?
 
acl
well, i thought the interesting claims lacked sufficient justification. then again, as I said, it was a superficial reading, and I may well be biased against it by reading what people I think highly of think of it. in any case my opinion on this is not to be taken seriously, I think.
 
CHM
heh
 
11:23 PM
Anybody care to tell me what the assballs happened to the confetti question while I was sleeping?
 
How does one include backticks in code?
 
@AndyRoss Comments or questions/answers?
 
inline answers
So say I wanted to write Internal`SomeFunction inline
But markup as code
 
Ah, then `Internal\`P2`
 
@JM Thanks, that's what I thought. For some reason I wasn't getting it to work.
 
11:29 PM
or ``Internal`P2 `` would give Internal`P2
(there's a space in before the last pair of backticks.)
 
acl
@JM apparently it was moved to meta by Cartaino, then moved back but left closed and then reopened by a bunch of us
(looks like Cartaino changed his mind, most likely after being pestered by yoda et al)
 
@acl You'd think he already learned not to mess with us... ah well, I'll ask @yoda when he pops up.
 
acl
@JM yes that's what I thought too
 
@JM that last one did the trick!
 
@AndyRoss The backtick business is a bit hit-and-miss... both techniques seem to work on chat and in comments, but not on questions/answers. So much for consistency...
 
11:37 PM
@JM so it goes. Thanks again for the help.
 
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