The Whiteboard

Quill

00:18

haproxy.org/they-use-it.html impressive list

Robert Harvey

00:42

Flagged as abusive. If you know enough to know that there are people here who you think might be dicks about it, you also already know that your question is probably off topic. It's your responsibility to find the right home for your question, not ours. — Robert Harvey 2 mins ago

Quill

00:52

> BUT in a commercial environment, you need to start to realize that perfect is the enemy of good (and good brings in the money, perfect might not necessarily bring in noticeably more for a whole lot more work). First do what is needed, then do what is nice to have. Yes, this might go against your grain no end. Just grin and bear it, and perhaps get a hobby to exercise your perfectionism and keep you sane ;-)

"don't follow best practice because you can't manage time"

Robert Harvey

01:16

Or, y'know, stop trying to be perfect.

Quill

01:31

you could almost say he's not perfect at not being perfect

Duga

03:37

I'm voting to migrate this question to Programmers. — hjpotter92 36 secs ago

Duga

05:35

Hey, why not post your architectural question here: programmers.stackexchange.com it's made for that ;-) — enzian 10 secs ago

Duga

07:16

@πάνταῥεῖ StackOverflow.com: "question and answer site for programmers". So why is asking a question for programmers off-topic? — parrowdice 56 secs ago

Duga

10:14

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it is better suited for programmers.se but even there it would be too broad and get closed. — Gordon 29 secs ago

StrawhatLuffy

10:35

0

Q: Make webservice on python

I have written python code for document summarizer which automatically summarizes a document. I want to convert it into a webservice where i can upload a document and set all the configurables in a UI and see the summarized document in the same webpage. What is a suggested framework for this? I...

jrh

11:27

@MaxHodges The link in your comment ( stackoverflow.com/questions/581570/… ) on this question about temporary files is dead, I'd really like to read this page you linked, could you explain what used to be here or post a new comment / answer?

also my apologies for posting this here but I haven't got sufficient rep in SO to chat and I don't know of any other way to get in contact with him

ratchet freak

@jrh That's a comment from 2012

jrh

yeah, Microsoft seems to like to delete their articles for some reason

it's very frustrating, archive.org doesn't even have it

If you guys want to me to delete that message I understand, it's not technically Programmers, I'm just doing what I can to clean up that post, there's no way to edit comments

Duga

11:52

I could be wrong, but I think this type of design / procon question is better suited for the programmers forum programmers.stackexchange.com/search?q=wpf ? — montewhizdoh 12 secs ago

Thomas Owens

12:48

This is such an X-Y problem. Why does an application have so many layers that you can't easily draw a picture of it?

1

Q: Is it okay to simplify a Sequence Diagram (grouping lifelines)?

Is it okay to group several Components into a single lifeline for simplicity? For example, let's say I have a UML Component Diagram, and it's a layered architecture. There are 26 components, one on top of the other, component A to Component Z. The interface to the system is Component A and the ...

uml sequence-diagram

ratchet freak

13:00

@ThomasOwens because people overcomplicate what should be simpel

Aaron Hall

13:34

Hey hey hey.

Kit Z. Fox

waves

enderland

@ThomasOwens depending on what "system of systems" means he might be using UML to describe a much larger application than a "single app"

if the OP is modeling something where his system is one piece of a system he does not control the entirety of, perhaps simplifying the other pieces would be useful

but the real question is... why would the OP be interested in UML modeling of this sort of scenario in the first place?

Duga

14:07

This might not be the right place for this question. Try here: programmers.stackexchange.com — roryap 9 secs ago

Robert Harvey

15:24

@MasonWheeler: Like you, the author thinks that unit testing is somehow supposed to prove that your program works. It doesn't. Let me repeat that: unit testing does not prove that your program works. Unit testing proves that your methods fulfill your testing contract, and that's all it does. The rest of the paper falls down, because it rests on that single invalid premise. — Robert Harvey 5 mins ago

enderland

@RobertHarvey +1

Thomas Owens

15:38

@RobertHarvey +1

user143252

15:53

the address in c has what data type

like pointer keeping an address

Robert Harvey

It's an int of some sort. I think it's 32 bits on 32-bit systems, and 64 bits on 64-bit systems.

Actually, it's probably an unsigned int. But C doesn't care what type it is.

in Discussion between Robert Harvey and Mason Wheeler, 13 mins ago, by Robert Harvey

That's the great thing about our industry. You can totally reject certain tools just out of principle, and still have a career.

user143252

ok

Robert Harvey

16:13

enderland

something like that. heh

Robert Harvey

in Discussion between Robert Harvey and Mason Wheeler, 3 mins ago, by Mason Wheeler

You don't recover that time, because that's the time you're spending developing it and it's all brand new.

Apparently I didn't explain my math properly.

Duga

16:29

This sort of question is better asked on programmers.stackexchange.com if you don't have a specific problem. But here's a resource that you'll find useful: pythonconquerstheuniverse.wordpress.com/2009/10/03/… — CJxD just now

Robert Harvey

You forgot to turn your "sense of entitlement" knob up to 11. — Robert Harvey 59 secs ago

Might as well share this so that it gets pummeled into oblivion.

-5

Q: Php echo statement not working

Hi I am trying to make an echo statement but it is not working Here it is , <?php echo"fuck stackexchange" ?< But it is not working

php

enderland

-1

Q: Converting string to LPCSTR?

So I am using FindWindow, but instead of having to change the program each time, I oviously want it to be dynamic. But when I enter the string variable that cin gave me when I was testing, it said that it required this strange lpcstr thing. I really need your help to see if there is any way that ...

c++

jrh

17:20

hmm, interesting discussion on unit tests. These chat logs stick around if I want to look at them later right?

enderland

@jrh yeah

jrh

ok, cool. thanks!

Telastyn

if it takes longer to test the code than write the code, you're doing it wrong...

and if your unit tests introduce bugs in the real code, you're really doing it wrong.

so yeah, not sure how that's a useful discussion when both parties have different understanding of what a unit test is...

enderland

@Telastyn maybe your unit tests are for a code generator and they modify your tested code for production code by accident, while simultaneously changing the test itself to pass

Telastyn

More likely, people add hacks to support tests.

daOnlyBG

17:30

Hello

user143252

question ... struct example

{

long l1;

short s1;

char c1;

char c2;

char c3;

};

Then l1 appears at the correct byte alignment, s1 will be correctly aligned

so no need for padding between l1 and s1. c1, c2, c3 can appear at any

location. The structure must be a multiple of 4 bytes in size since it contains

a long so 3 padding bytes appear after c3. ......I AM NOT GETTING WHY 3 PADDING BYTES ?

.I AM NOT GETTING WHY 3 PADDING BYTES ?

help needed ?

jrh

there seems to be a bunch of different ideas on how to best use unit tests, even on programmers.SE, e.g., this answer: programmers.stackexchange.com/a/299803/196610 "Since unit-tests capture the debugging, and testing effort into (potentially automate-able) code, it would make sense that more effort goes into them; the actual time taken shouldn't be much more than the debugging and testing one would do without writing the tests."

I've been researching testing best practices for a while, and I like to monitor this chat to see what's currently being used, both good and bad practices, so maybe I can learn from the best and identify when it's not being used correctly, too

Telastyn

indeed, very disappointing.

gnat

@RobertHarvey I'll try. how ever I think I just ask a stupid question here. — Jum Remdesk 26 mins ago

^^^ nice attitude. Really nice. Let's rename Programmers to "StupidQuestions Stack Exchange". @RobertHarvey wrt that php echo, you may enjoy revisions history over there (10K link)

Telastyn

dunno, it seems like you should get 3 padding bytes on most platforms.

user143252

17:36

why ? @Telastyn

how ?

Telastyn

sorry, I don't understand.

jrh

@user143252 msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/2e70t5y1.aspx

assuming that's C

I have to get back to work though; there's probably some SO questions on this you can look at too

user143252

still not getting ... why 3 bytes ...padding .... it makes no sense as members are in allginment

enderland

@jrh engineers have lots of opinions, heh

Telastyn

they're not aligned? 8 bytes for the long, 2 bytes for the short, 3 bytes for the chars leaves you at 13 bytes. Since you're going to want to be 16 bytes, 3 bytes padding...

assuming 32 bit. 64 bit may vary the sizes and the desired size.

user143252

17:44

but size of long is 4 bytes only

that means the above example will have 3 byte padding depend on architecure

for 64 3 byte padding ... but for 32 but no padding

Telastyn

are you sure long is 4 bytes on your system?

user143252

i use sizeof to check .... it gives result 4 bytes only

i got it @Telastyn thanks a lot ..

jrh

21:16

@enderland yeah, I read a lot of these unit testing discussions to try and figure out if my method is better or worse than what other people are using

Duga

21:40

Hopefully Programmers Stack Exchange might be more "on-topic" — downshift 48 secs ago

Duga

21:56

I am not a member of the Programmers site, but I believe that advice might be wrong. I think they specialise in conceptual computing problems that do not have a specific code angle, but they tend to get grumpy if "stuff that is off-topic at Stack Overflow" is redirected over there. I believe there is a post about it on their Meta. — halfer 58 secs ago

jrh

Just wondering, could somebody explain why this question programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/161794/… is not too broad or primarily opinion based? I like the question but I'm still kind of confused about this site's scope.

MetaFight

I guess in a sense it is opinion based... it's just that most people tend to converge onto the same opinion over time.

Being able to swap the UI out for another different UI (or for automated tests) is a standard practice.

Duga

22:17

Please stop using Programmers.SE as your toilet bowl — gnat 1 min ago

jrh

@MetaFight I haven't really seen it in practice much at work, it seems like an interesting idea though.

I've seen some open source applications implement it really badly, I don't really have a lot of good examples to go on unfortunately

Transcript for