The Whiteboard

user55340

00:22

@Ampt time to move to Seattle? Amazon launching one-hour booze delivery in Seattle

user55340

> Starting Tuesday, Prime members in Amazon’s hometown of Seattle can get one- and two-hour delivery of beer, wine and hard liquor like whiskey, rum, and vodka with the launch of Prime Now there, making Seattle the first U.S. city to include alcohol in the assortment of products eligible for the quick-delivery service.

user55340

You know this means that they'll make a PBR dash button for the hipsters there.

user55340

user15026

If I could move to America, I think I know where I'd go, now :p (but since you still want large sums of money to fix my cyborg parts if they fail...don't think it is actually going to be a thing.)

Robert Harvey

Handy Visual Studio tip of the day: if you ever get a broken build with no error messages in the error list, you can get the compiler errors to show up in the window by selecting Build Only in the Filter ErrorList To dropdown in the Error List window. (Visual Studio 2015)

Yes, you heard me right: making the filter more specific shows more errors. (Time lost: 3 hours).

user55340

00:28

@AshleyNunn Isn't Seattle just south-western Canada? Kind of like how Baja-California is for the US?

user55340

See if you can persuade them to do drone booze delivery to Victoria BC...

Robert Harvey

It has great coffee, eh?

user15026

@MichaelT I am sure that won't raise any red flags anywhere :P

Ampt

00:46

@MichaelT s/hipsters/the enlightened few/g

user55340

In Seattle, thats the same thing.

user55340

(I wonder how much PBR you can get with the minimum purchase order?)

Ampt

probably a 6 pack

user55340

Hmm... maybe. There's the Seattle hipster tax in play too.

Ampt

it's ok, by the time they hit wisconsin, I expect kegs to be on delivery

Ampt

01:07

@JimmyHoffa want to shoot some ~~tourists~~ terrorists?

Robert Harvey

02:14

...but neither the GPL nor the AGPL say anything about protecting the API itself; in fact, I believe such a restriction would run counter to the concept of "free software." The GPL is about source distribution, not about sealing off API's per se. It's the code that fulfills the API specification that is protected, not the specification itself. — Robert Harvey 7 mins ago

Robert Harvey

02:24

Science Fiction and Fantasy. Where you can find the answer to the quintessential question: "Did Greedo Shoot First?"

Hosch250

Are API questions on topic?

At CR, we have a user who is considering moving a question here: codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/102021/…

Mat's Mug

@Hosch250 beat me to it ;-)

0

Q: C library public API types

I'm evaluating a library whose public API currently looks like this: libengine.h /* Handle, used for all APIs */ typedef size_t enh; /* Create new engine instance; result returned in handle */ int en_open(int mode, enh *handle); /* Start an engine */ int en_start(enh handle); /* Add a new ...

thoughts?

Hosch250

@RobertHarvey Our CR mod, @Mat'sMug is busy taking out the trash, so I get to ping you.

Would you mind taking a look?

durron597

02:44

@Hosch250 @Mat'sMug I'm surprised the question is off topic on Code Review.

Mat's Mug

I'm on the fence.

Hosch250

@durron597 It looks awful like stub code, but I haven't done anything either way.

durron597

Well, as I'm sure you both know, is that a question must be off topic on the original site before it can be migrated.

Robert Harvey

Eh, if it compiles...

durron597

For example, algorithm questions on Stack Overflow should never be migrated to Programmers.

Even though they might be "more" on topic here.

Hosch250

02:47

It is lacking more detail than some questions I've seen closed as off topic for lack of detail.

Mat's Mug

it's very much boiled down to a specific aspect of the code, which goes against the spirit of CR, which is that answerers are free to comment on any and all aspects of the code.

durron597

A complete interface library could be a valid code review topic, right?

Like, let's say someone put SLF4J on code review.

Hosch250

If it had the implementation too.

durron597

No, just SLF4J API.

And said "have at it, what do you think"

Hosch250

AFAIK, API reviews are as off topic as reviewing a set of C# interfaces without implementations.

They are both stub code.

Mat's Mug

02:50

if it's not on-topic here, it'll end up closed as hypothetical/stub code on CR

OP is very cooperative though

I just don't get the Programmers.SE scope (sorry if that's taboo here!) to just migrate

OTOH, it's really an on-the-fence post, right in the gray area of CR on-topicness. Hence I'm not hammer-closing it.

durron597

It's gray area here too

It's, honestly, gray area on stack overflow also

Hosch250

I don't see anything mentioning API review in the help center.

Mat's Mug

eh, I think it's a case of when in doubt, don't.

durron597

@WorldEngineer Are you around?

@MichaelT? @GlenH7? @gnat?

Ampt

I don't see a question - it reads more like a debate: "Which of these options is better", which I'm not sure makes it a great fit here either

Robert Harvey

03:03

Subjective questions on Programmers can often pass muster if they are specific enough.

Ampt

your call - just reads to me like someone wants third party validation that they are, infact, the most correct on the interwebz

Mat's Mug

lol kinda huh

durron597

@Ampt I agree

Ampt

Maybe I'm reading it wrong - it just comes off that this person spent all this time making these changes and submitting a pull request - and the repo owner said no, he likes it his way

durron597

@Mat'sMug @Hosch250 You two should read this: meta.programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/6758/…

Ampt

03:06

in which case we will leave snarky comments and then close it, because that's what we do best

3

Mat's Mug

resists urge to star that ;-)

4

Robert Harvey

Presumably the original author put some thought into the original API, so any significant changes would have to be really compelling, especially if you're going to break existing clients.

durron597

@Mat'sMug Heck, I'll star it.

@RobertHarvey Agreed.

Honestly... there's no question there

He's already made all the points

Ampt

He just wants us to agree with him

durron597

one away breaks encapsulation, one way breaks type safety.

Mat's Mug

03:07

I'll leave it on CR

Ampt

but really, the repo owner gets the final word

durron597

@Mat'sMug One thing I tend to notice about code review... correct me if I'm wrong

But moderators tend to unilaterally close stuff a lot over there

I think you should see if it gets 5 votes from non moderators.

Ampt

coughbetterthanmath.secough

durron597

At that time, then revisit migration again

Ampt

he didn't say he was going to close it :)

he just wasn't going to move it

durron597

03:09

I wasn't talking about him, I was talking about... other moderators.

Robert Harvey

How tough would it be for our small team of half-dozen developers to put in some sort of CI system? Perhaps based on Cruise Control?

durron597

possibly there should be a Meta.CR discussion about whether API questions are considered stub code

Heck, I'll make the post.

Ampt

@RobertHarvey like make one you were going to use? or make one to sell?

Robert Harvey

No, just use one.

Ampt

we had a CI system at my old workplace where teams were 4-6 people, worked fairly well

really it's selling it to management (If you give us 100 hours now, we can save 500 over the next year)

durron597

03:11

@Mat'sMug @Hosch250 meta.codereview.stackexchange.com/questions/502/…

Ampt

if you've done that... then you're already there really

Robert Harvey

Do you have to build anything? Or can you just write scripts and settings?

Ampt

yeah, it was the embedded systems gig

stuff like "If we can overhaul our testing framework, we can save 10x as many hours over 5 years making testers for new products"

or "we need to create a better story board because ours is falling apart and we lose track of stufF"

I'm not sure what exactly you're looking for in terms of recommendations, but we just had a weekly (or maybe it was bi-weekly) status meeting for new ideas, and progress on approved ideas

once we had an idea and vetted it out to make sure it made sense, it got a budget and just became another project we could work on

user20683

@durron597 I have a deadline but yes I am around

Ampt

so no, its definitely not impossible to make CI work with a small team of devs - the hard part is getting management to let you do stuff you can't sell in order to make long term payments

I may be totally mis-reading what you're asking though :)

durron597

03:16

0

Q: C library public API types

I'm evaluating a library whose public API currently looks like this: libengine.h /* Handle, used for all APIs */ typedef size_t enh; /* Create new engine instance; result returned in handle */ int en_open(int mode, enh *handle); /* Start an engine */ int en_start(enh handle); /* Add a new ...

c api library

We are discussing whether that should be migrated here

Robert Harvey

I think our small management team is already sold on it. It's just a matter of keeping the fires put out long enough to get it done.

Ampt

@RobertHarvey yeah, you've got to be able to have time to actually work on the stuff - and that usually means having stuff pushed back so that you don't have a full plate 40 hours a week

of course management wants you to spend 10 hours now to save 100 hours next month, but they don't want to give you 10 hours this week to do it

Mat's Mug

@durron597 meh, I'll just leave it in the hands of the CR community. if it ends up answered, all the better; if it ends up closed, I'll reconsider migrating.

Ampt

because that's 10 hours away from something they could be selling

durron597

Well, we should get @WorldEngineer opinion, would be nice to have a progs mod sign off on that plan too. make it unanimous

Ampt

03:18

We had a very good manager who pushed hard for time like that, so it worked well for us

if no one is willing to do that for you, it may be harder

user20683

@durron597 I feel like it's kind of looser than what we typically go for but I'm personally more liberal to scope than most of you guys

user55340

> So, here I am. What do others think?

user55340

As written, I'd be very tempted to close as opinion.

user20683

@Ampt let's not go Godwinning our scope

durron597

@MichaelT Pros and cons, right?

Ampt

03:21

That's it, I'm opening a meta post so that we can get a close reason that includes the word 'Nazi'

user55340

Opinion poll. Trying to win an argument against the repo owner.

durron597

> There's no question there, one way breaks encapsulation, one way breaks type safety, which is more important is an opinion.

@MichaelT Yeah.

I would probably skip in CV queue if it had been posted here originally.

user55340

Question includes answer is a question smell.

user55340

> To me, this is obviously better for the following reasons (otherwise I wouldn't have spent hours making the change):

Ampt

well, to my (untrained) eye, that seems to be preferable on CR, no?

(ignoring the obvious fact that they are trying to migrate it here)

user55340