The Whiteboard

user55340

12:00 AM

@WorldEngineer Python has it, because thats what you did back in the day. You gave fairly raw access to the C libraries because you were dealing with C programmers and needed to let them think like C programmers sometimes.

user55340

perldoc.perl.org/functions/listen.html linux.die.net/man/2/listen

user55340

listen SOCKET,QUEUESIZE; # perl
int listen(int sockfd, int backlog); /* C */

user55340

And then you've got some python:

user55340

socket.listen(backlog)

user55340

Trying to make an abstraction on top of C is a painful thing that takes lots of smart brains lots of time.

Ixrec

12:05 AM

and if you actually want a filesystem or a socket API, it's not clear that there is a point trying to go one level "higher" than where the C functions happen to be

user55340

While Larry and Guido were certainly very smart, they were also smart enough to realize "trying to redo this isn't an effective use of our time right now - here's the C interface, people know it and can read the man page for the deeper meanings of it if they want."

user55340

        Socket socket = new Socket("192.168.1.104", 4000);
        ObjectInputStream ois = new ObjectInputStream(socket.getInputStream());
        String message = (String) ois.readObject();

user55340

Whee! I've got close votes again.

user55340

-2

Q: Why Javascript is so horribly loosely typed?

+"3" // 3 'foo' - 3 // NaN ? "foo" + false // "foofalse" boolean is converted to string 8 * null // 0 ? From learning perspective, these are tough rules to remember, despite being the most popular language. Is it the nature of data entered on user interface driving this design decision? W...

user55340

sigh

user55340

12:08 AM

(and on revision 3 within 8 minutes...)

Ixrec

at least it's attracting close votes

user55340

@Ixrec with that title, its hard not to.

Ixrec

follow-up: Why is C so amazingly tightly typed except for that stupid void* thing?

3

user55340

9

A: Java: The best way to learn it when MOOCs and books are not enough?

You won't like this answer because you've already heard it. Go code! Seriously. At some point, coding becomes an experiential thing. You have to "do it" in order to "get it." You're there. So go code. but I haven't had any reasonable goals and reading books feels like eternal loop that ...

Ixrec

"This topic was taken from Stack Overflow, but it was put on-hold due to Opinion-based question. So I moved it to here."

classic

user55340

12:14 AM

> closed as primarily opinion-based by MichaelT, Kilian Foth, psr, Bart van Ingen Schenau, Jalayn Aug 1 '13 at 12:15

user55340

0

Q: What are the "best practices" to learn Java if MOOCs and books are not counted?

Because I want to get help in this and I want to help others struggling with similar problems, I will try my best to formulate this topic fit for the Stack Overflow. What are the "best practices" to learn Java if MOOCs and books are not counted? This is a subjective question, but IT world doesn...

java arrays methods constructor

Ixrec

I saw that, but it's always extra funny when the question itself declares "I am opinion-based, BUT"

Ampt

@Ixrec That's a really, really valid question lmao

Ixrec

I'm fairly sure we have it on the main site somewhere

user55340

You should go ask it on Stack Overflow.

Ixrec

12:17 AM

I'm not that brave

user55340

It will get +50, a hot question, a meta post, closed, reopened, closed, deleted, undeleted, reopened, closed, locked, and then a SE employee (maybe Oded?) will finally delete and say "cut that out"

4

Ampt

also, thinking more about it, it's really not that tightly typed in most cases

user55340

@Ampt Nope - its not at all. Thus the trolling nature of it.

Ixrec

there are no tight types, it is all an illusion

user55340

Or, "its tightly typed... just everything is an int"

Ixrec

12:19 AM

except in Haskell of course

user55340

@user16307 some code - ideone.com/PtU10J and its assembly goo.gl/dqK15Y . The compiled code sees no difference between the char and the int other than the size (a byte vs long in intel syntax). That it is different sizes is made at compile time and done. — MichaelT Aug 5 at 22:18

Ampt

damn I just got trolled so hard, then nerd sniped

user55340

#include <stdio.h>

int main() {
  char a = 'a';
  int b = 97;
  printf("%d %c\n",a,b);
  printf("%c %d\n",a,b);
}

Ixrec

I find the more I think about strong v weak typing the more I conclude the terms mean absolutely nothing

except for some vague sets of characteristics which happen to be generally correlated with compiled v interpreted languages

user55340

27

A: The Definition of "Strong Type Systems"

A strong type system is a type system that has a compile-time restriction or run-time feature that you find attractive. A weak type system is a type system which lacks that restriction or feature. Seriously, that's it. You read the Wikipedia page, so you know that there are at least eleven dif...

user55340

12:22 AM

> Seriously, that's it. You read the Wikipedia page, so you know that there are at least eleven different mutually incompatible meanings of "strongly typed". The term is useless unless clarified; no two people discussing a type system need have the same definition in their heads of "strongly typed".

durron597

18

A: Why does EnumSet have many overloaded of methods?

Varargs methods create an array. public static void foo(Object... args) { System.out.println(args.length); } This works, because of the implicit array creation. EnumSet is a class designed to be very, very fast, so by creating all the extra overloads they can skip the array creation step in ...

user55340

(and then read the comments in Karl's attempt at an answer)

durron597

17th in HNQ right now

Ixrec

@durron597 oh, I didn't even notice that was your answer when I was browsing on my phone earlier...

durron597

@Ixrec :)

Ixrec

12:24 AM

people are so much harder to recognize without avatars

durron597

Wow. I'm 16th in week rank on SO

41st in month rank

just 7 rep short of Jon Skeet in week rep

ooh

58

Q: Collapsible Code Markup

Background When answering questions on SO I generally like to ensure that my code is runnable by including sample data, so someone can copy, paste, and run it, seeing exactly what I'd proposed. However, often this setup code takes up a lot of space before the code of interest, so I have to put ...

feature-request status-review code-formatting markdown

Jimmy Hoffa

12:51 AM

@gnat Enterprise is the least damaged by spaghetti. Could you imagine the internet gone spaghetti? Ewww, we would probably still be 5 or 10 years behind in technological advancement from how stunted the web would have been..

Instead, the Spaghetti lives in the enterprise where it just fucks with dumbass marketing and business departments which make money hand over fist regardless of how stupidly they use technology.

user55340

"What drives the language designers to provide such peculiar coersion rules?" – Brendan Eich had 10 days to design and implement LiveScript. It's a wonder ECMAScript is designed as well as it is. Other languages take much more time. Alan Kay started thinking about OO in the 1960s, designed the first iteration of Smalltalk in 1972, but the first public release wasn't until Smalltalk-80 V2 in 1981, that's 9 years of design. matz started designing Ruby in 1993, the first public release was in 1995. Fortress was in the design phase for over 10 years without ever getting released. — Jörg W Mittag 10 mins ago

user55340

I really don't hold that ruby is a good example of good design.

user20683

@MichaelT it's not terrible either

user20683

again, C baggage

user55340

foo?1:2 # this is a syntax error
foo ?1:2 # this works fine

user20683

12:56 AM

@MichaelT there's more than one way to do it even if that means that you've got more head methods than a hydra

user55340

~ $ irb
irb(main):001:0> def foo?
irb(main):002:1> return 42;
irb(main):003:1* end
=> nil
irb(main):004:0> bar = 42
=> 42
irb(main):005:0> bar?1:2
SyntaxError: (irb):5: syntax error, unexpected ':', expecting end-of-input
bar?1:2
      ^
	from /usr/bin/irb:12:in `<main>'
irb(main):006:0> bar ?1:2
=> 1
irb(main):007:0> foo??1:2
SyntaxError: (irb):7: syntax error, unexpected ':', expecting end-of-input
foo??1:2
       ^
	from /usr/bin/irb:12:in `<main>'
irb(main):008:0> foo? ?1:2
SyntaxError: (irb):8: syntax error, unexpected ':', expecting end-of-input

user55340

So, define a function foo? and a variable bar

user55340

bar?1:2 doesn't work - need a space there so that it doesn't look like a function. bar ?1:2 works fine.

user55340

However, the same space syntax rules don't work for foo? ?1:2 - you need more spaces in there.

user55340

That's got nothing to do with C baggage. That's a wtf on the "oh, we need a ternary operator" and not thinking through what that does to the syntax.

user55340

12:59 AM

irb(main):008:0> foo? ?1:2
SyntaxError: (irb):8: syntax error, unexpected ':', expecting end-of-input
foo? ?1:2
        ^
	from /usr/bin/irb:12:in `<main>'
irb(main):009:0> foo? ? 1 : 2
=> 1

user55340

Not sure why the last bit didn't get copied in... but there it is.

durron597

ruby is dumb.

user55340

Ruby was designed with a "well, Javascript has it" mentality.

user55340

Or then there's wonderful things like...

user55340

> `has_key?(key) → true or false`
Returns true if the given key is present in hsh.

user55340

1:04 AM

> `include?(key) → true or false`
Returns true if the given key is present in hsh.

user55340

So... why have both of them defined in the hash class? docs.ruby-lang.org/en/2.0.0/Hash.html

user55340

> `member?(key) → true or false`
Returns true if the given key is present in hsh.

user55340

> `length → fixnum`
Returns the number of key-value pairs in the hash.
`size → fixnum`
Returns the number of key-value pairs in the hash.

Ampt

1:20 AM

@JimmyHoffa want to shoot some terrorists?

Do you want to shoot a terrorist? It doesn't have to be a terrorist!

user55340

Do you want to be a calptrap?
Come on lets play a psycho
Or ride our meat bicycles around the halls...

user55340

Lets hear it for Canadian musicians (artist's site: chrishadfield.ca/music )

user55340

user55340

*!(@_%

Ampt

1:36 AM

looool

user55340

Chris Hadfield – Feet Up – Official Lyric Video

►

user55340

Car Talk - My Government Vehicle Shakes at 17,500 MPH

►

user15026

@MichaelT OMG WANT

Robert Harvey

1:56 AM

Is there a way to block proxy scripts from my ISP?

user55340

@RobertHarvey Depends on how they do it.

Ampt

proxy scripts?

as in what happens when you enter an invalid URL?

Robert Harvey

That too.

Ampt

or are they literally man in the middle attacking you

user55340

Charter (for example) does an annoyingly 'good' "replace the text of the page on the fly"

Robert Harvey

1:57 AM

@Ampt I consider it such an attack.

Ampt

I use AdBlock

user55340

invalid URL would be a "switch your name server"

Ampt

but any site that uses HTTPS should be secure against that

which is a lot, thankfully

Robert Harvey

Basically, anything that is not a pure Internet connection. Anything they might use to listen in any way.

Well, I guess I can't control sniffers.

Ampt

I think the best option if you're truly paranoid is to use your own SSL proxy

tunnel everything

it's relatively cheap if you're into that kind of thing - usually $5-20/mo

Robert Harvey

1:59 AM

I don't have any real reason to be paranoid. But Cox has a bad attitude about this sort of thing.

Ampt

eh, try adblock then

if you find stuff in pages that shouldn't be there, you can add it to your adblock registry

poof it's gone.

user55340

In Canada

►

user15026

@MichaelT I love this, have since the first timeI saw it :)

user55340

Whats with Canada?

durron597

Canadian, Please | gunnarolla & Julia Bentley

►

user15026

2:02 AM

I use adblock plus and ghostery on my machine and that makes me feel relatively content about stuff

user55340

Hopelessly Midwestern

►

Ampt

@MichaelT communism and gay marriage if I believe what I see on Fox.

user15026

@Ampt and health care

Ampt

Sorry, I figured that fell under "Communism"

user55340

@AshleyNunn Only if you ask the Donald... otherwise its not mentioned on Fox.

Robert Harvey

2:04 AM

Heh. There were six ads on the newegg front page alone.

user55340

"If you think that sushi looks a lot like bait... you're hopelessly midwestern"

Ampt

@RobertHarvey AdBlock man

just do it

you've got nothing to lose (but ads)

durron597

Is this NAA? stackoverflow.com/questions/6377174

Robert Harvey

That's why I knew there were six ads. :)

user15026

@Ampt oh yeah thats true

durron597

2:05 AM

@RobertHarvey If you look at that plz let me get a helpful flag

Robert Harvey

@durron597 Already deleted.

Ampt

what do I want to play tonight

suggestions?

durron597

@RobertHarvey lol ok

Robert Harvey

Hoo boy. Reuters is ad central.

durron597

I'm being so picky about my flags after I got 16 declined flags in 35 flags

Ampt

2:06 AM

maybe I'll try CS:GO for the first time

user55340

@Ampt banjo.

Ampt

kazooie?

durron597

@RobertHarvey Example of an answer that I've been not-flagging

Robert Harvey

@durron597 Those are better custom-flagged with something like "This answer doesn't really add anything."

user55340

@durron597 down vote, +fav, come back with 20k rep, delete vote.

durron597

2:12 AM

@MichaelT I'll never remember to do that.

user55340

@RobertHarvey "declined: It adds a different viewpoint on another answer."

durron597

@RobertHarvey custom flags are more likely to get helpful than NAA / VLQ for stuff like that?

user55340

@durron597 There's a reason I have 107 favs on P.SE.

Robert Harvey

"This answer doesn't really add anything, and can be safely deleted or converting to comment without hurting anything."

durron597

@MichaelT ha.

user55340

2:13 AM

Gnat has 456.

durron597

@RobertHarvey done

@MichaelT Yeah, but he doesn't have 20k rep. At this rate I'll beat him to 20k on SO before he gets it on Progs

user55340

Btw, @gnat (given that you've poked the question):

user55340

DELETE brain FROM flag_reviewers WHERE reviewer = 'idiot' — gnat yesterday

user55340

There may not be a formal feature req post, @TinyGiant, but it's been raised enough (most notably by MichaelT, who's removed his SO account, though some of the posts are on Meta.SE) that I'm content with everyone just keeping on doing what they think is right and meeting somewhere in the middle. I think there might even be a Q post that flat out says "change this", but I'm not going to be able to find it right now on my phone. — Josh Caswell yesterday

user55340

The post that Josh might have been thinking about was:

user55340

2:17 AM

21

Q: What constitutes an answer?

A fairly consistent question that gets raised on MSO is what constitutes an answer. This takes several forms: Why was my NAA flag declined? (example) These comments should have been an answer. (example) answers that appear to address the question. (example) This appears to be related to a he...

discussion answers comments not-an-answer

user55340

@RobertHarvey it should then be considered that the text for NAA should be updated to state instead: "This was posted as an answer, but is nonsense, asks another question, or is just a 'thanks'. For all other issues, use a custom flag." However, that doesn't take into account that mods are suggesting using answers as durable comments or suggesting that the criteria for an answer is "appears to addresses the question" rather than "fundamentally answer the question". — user289086 Nov 18 '14 at 1:45

Robert Harvey

Really, it's not that difficult to figure out.

People get confused because they tried to read into it. Not an answer means it's not an answer. That's it.

user55340

@RobertHarvey Until the community, as a whole, has a better way of taking care of popular poor answers, it will remain an issue. However, I've washed my hands of SO and only poke at the meta in morbid curiosity of what will blow up next. Its now a soap opera instead of a reality show that I'm part of.

gnat

@JoshCaswell What constitutes an answer? — gnat 28 secs ago

durron597

0

A: what namespaces are needed for this piece of code? (c#)

Are you adding the reference to the System.Drawing assembly?

Notice what the accepted answer says to do.

gnat

2:27 AM

@MichaelT you should have left your meta account intact, removing only main one at SO. I recall most of your posts at MSO by heart but not all of 'em :)

user55340

@gnat when one goes, they both go.

Robert Harvey

@durron597 That's an answer.

durron597

@RobertHarvey Reads like a question to me

Robert Harvey

Not a great one.

user55340

It is asking for clarification to the question from '09, from before when comments existed.

gnat

2:28 AM

@MichaelT I know. Usually it's not a problem. Not in this case though

Robert Harvey

It can have a question mark in it, and still be an answer

durron597

Notice (i've flagged about 30 answers in the last few hours), that's one I've decided to paste here instead of flag and move on

user55340

@gnat data.stackexchange.com/meta.stackoverflow/query/…

durron597

0

A: Android: Autoscrolling HorizontalScrollView

why arent you using Linear layour with horizontal orientation?

user55340

The only thing in the post that still links back to something that is consistent across all the posts is the OwnerDisplayName, which for deleted accounts is really hard to change. Not as useful for live accounts where a tweak to the profile changes all that.

Robert Harvey

2:36 AM

I've been surfing very intermittently/casually for the last 10 minutes, and have already racked up 244 ads.

Had no idea there were so many.

user55340

For me, I don't use ad blocker except for particular sites with especially egregious advertisements. Often advertisements are part of the business model for the free web page - the choice is "enough people see an advertisement" or "the page is behind a paywall or limited articles / month"...

durron597

@RobertHarvey Is this an answer?

gnat

3:53 AM

@RobertHarvey unlike moderators, flaggers look at both question and answer. Back then, when flags went only to mods, this was not an issue. Mods declined, flaggers learned. But it's not so anymore. Many flags are handled in LQ queue where reviewers, like flaggers, see both question and answer, and they "teach each other" that it's okay to flag NAA when answers says "London" to the question "What time is it now?" When mods intrude into this with their answer-only UX, bad things happen

not that I am having problem with that, it's not my headache. Just an observation

...SE team could probably try to bring back old harmony by making answer-only UX for LQ reviewers, but then, flaggers will (re)learn to use Other flag at "- What time is it now? - London" and this will likely kill moderators

gnat

4:14 AM

what a revelation...

Any difference? my friends told me that "stack exchange" is undergraduate or master level, and "stack overflow" is PhD or research level. I think my question is very basic, so I asked here. Am I wrong? If it is, sorry about that, I can move to other places. — breezeintopl 1 min ago

...wow. Just... wow

or maybe the guy is blocked at SO and simply makes things up. That's more likely

...no, not blocked. This seems to be for real! "stack exchange" is undergraduate or master level, and "stack overflow" is PhD or research level

woo hoo. TIL

Duga

6:45 AM

I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it rather belongs on programmers.stackexchange.com — RedX 29 secs ago

Ixrec

well, now I'm convinced I should never even bother attempting to use an NAA flag

@GeorgeStocker "If someone has to think about how the answer 'doesn't apply' to the question, then you probably shouldn't flag it as 'not an answer'. I'm not sure why that's so hard to grok." Your comment defies its own logic. It suggests I have to think about the meaning of "Not an Answer" while simultaneously suggesting that mods shouldn't have to think about why it's not an answer. It is literally not an answer. Why is that any harder to grok than the fact that "Not an Answer" apparently doesn't mean "not an answer"? (Don't read this too hard or long. You'll get a headache. ;) ) — jpmc26 Aug 12 '14 at 1:38

Robert Harvey

Not an answer means "It's something other than an answer." Spam, a new question, a comment, "I like turtles." All of them are "Not an Answer."

That said, I've grown tired of making the distinction. If something is flagged and should be deleted, I'll delete it. That's how it used to work before the review queues came along.

Duga

8:51 AM

1st. Edit the title, make it recognizable for programmers to see what the question is about. 2nd. This does not belong on stackoverflow. Use Google (or other sources) instead. Maybe you can find some at your local library. — MoosMas 57 secs ago

This question is probably better suited for Programmers Stack Exchange — Jonas 23 secs ago

Duga

9:17 AM

I think this question could be treated as off-topic, as it doesn't consist a specific problem, so in my opinion it is more suitable for example to Programmers — m.cekiera 9 secs ago

Duga

12:42 PM

Thanks for your feedback. I was allready prepared to be downvoted a few times with my first questions as the rules for good questions can be interpreted quite individual. I also understand that my question goes probably to much into polling. The thing is, in my opinion it also qualifies as "development methodologies and processes". Should I just rephrase it and post it into Programmers.SE or should I refrain from it alltogether. I see many people with the same problem but as I have found no real answer to it I thought it would be something of common interest. — YokeM 26 secs ago

RubberDuck

@maple_shaft do you mind explaining why this was migrated? programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/291593/…

I thought things should only get migrated when they're off topic.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt been on a horror binge lately instead of fiddling at the computer after work

Mr. Jones: Very well implemented and acted up until the last third where they stretched what should have been a 2-4 minute scene trying to play up an atmosphere like insidious' Nether was dragged out ~30 minutes or so... If they cut that scene down, removing the endless reams of film that served no purpose to the movie they may have had something. Really though, though their production and acting was good, the story ran into plot holes pretty early on with the protagonist being arbitrarily stupid just to try and generate film content

Happy Coffee day (Coffee|coffee?)

@RubberDuck sometimes things are migrated out of spite; i.e. The Workplace

RubberDuck

@JimmyHoffa the workplace stuff I get. Those questions are off topic here.

I'm not upset, just curious.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RubberDuck I was making jest. Nothing is migrated out of spite; I frankly don't know why that was migrated..

RubberDuck

lol

Jimmy Hoffa

12:51 PM

perhaps just because it would likely get better answers given the content over there

EE do a lot more embedded system documentation than anybody at P.SE

RubberDuck

In fact, it did get better answers there. I had cross posted because it was on topic in both places.

Jimmy Hoffa

We'll tell you how to file a TPS report

RubberDuck

I'm already pretty good at that.

Jimmy Hoffa

See, then you're all set. Now you just need a catchy name like Michael Bolton and you can become king of software documentation, knocking Thomas Owens off his spot

RubberDuck

But @Jimmy, I already have a catchy name.

Albeit, not as catchy as yours.

Jimmy Hoffa

12:54 PM

Mine'll catch ya with cement shoes, then it's curtains.

RubberDuck

Anyway, gotta get to the daily ~~standup~~ waste of 15 minutes. Nice to see ya buddy.

Jimmy Hoffa

Make sure to tell them their 15 minutes could have been spent celebrating Coffee Day which makes them a blocker.

3

ratchet freak

@JimmyHoffa unless they provide coffee at the time waster and then it's an ode to the holy burnt-bean juice

gnat

@MichaelT if you will have time, I would be interested to learn your thoughts regarding Recent Trouble With Popularity

Jimmy Hoffa

@ratchetfreak only if they have an appropriate shrine and practice the relevant chants

Jimmy Hoffa

1:08 PM

> well if you know what is good for you, you best go run and hide, daddy's got a new coffee or five

> Our coffee, who art in the machine, hallowed be thy grinds...

(too profane?)

user55340

wolframalpha.com/input/?i=how+many+cows+in+North+America%3F

user41796

@MichaelT I need to figure out how to decipher Alpha better. It said:

user41796

> Result: 33

Thomas Owens

Hmm. Greenland has 15 cows?

user55340

It was one of the suggestions from the "world population " question

user55340

1:18 PM

Ok. I'll bite. wolframalpha.com/input/?i=world+population — Ross 6 hours ago

Thomas Owens

Oh. Are there 33 countries in North America?

user55340

23

user55340

wolframalpha.com/input/…

durron597

HAPPY COFFEE DAY

maple_shaft

@RubberDuck hi, I migrated to EE on the request of an EE moderator

he wanted to merge the question from our site into the question on their site

Thomas Owens

1:22 PM

@maple_shaft :(

user55340

47 chickens in Asia... According to wolfram

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT I thought it was made by a mathematician? It can't even count..

maple_shaft

@ThomasOwens It didn't really seem ontopic to me here

user55340

(I left feedback there)

maple_shaft

it seemed more hardware related

Thomas Owens

1:23 PM

@maple_shaft Seemed on-topic, without any down votes or close votes.

maple_shaft

It was tagged with the C tag but there is no C anywhere in the question

it is about pin mapping

user55340

@ThomasOwens after last nights barrage of crap, number of close votes is not the best metric

Thomas Owens

@maple_shaft Yeah. I've written code that interfaces with custom hardware before. There's a big disconnect between what EEs make/want and what SEs make/want in terms of documentation.

user41796

@ThomasOwens Question wasn't really written that way though

user41796

I can see what you're saying about it, but as currently written I think it's a better fit on EE. And it's already been answered there.

user41796

1:26 PM

A question about bridging the gap between EE and SE would be much more interesting.

user41796

One of the things I struggled with when I took that 8 hour engineering test was bridging the norms of the two fields.

Jimmy Hoffa

I could see it working here, it was well written and focussed, good content and no reason we shouldn't have kept our paws on it. But it definitely wouldn't have received the quality answers here EE would give it just because we're more versed in a different form of documentation (long form prose of bullshit)

> this set just copies things off random internet pages and pastes them until the compiler tells them it's fine; this set actually measures things... how can I bridge these? Measure how much is copied? Number of pastes before the compiler passes?

RubberDuck

@ThomasOwens that's kind of why I posted it here originally, I was interested in the doc from the SE side of things, not necessarily the hardware side of things.

user55340

@RubberDuck asking the identical question on multiple sites is likely to get migrated and merged. And that is good - keep all the answers to the question in one place. To post on multiple sites, think about how to craft the question specifically for each audience

RubberDuck

That's a good point @MichaelT.

I was just curious why it was migrated away when it seemed to be on topic here. In my experience, the rule of thumb is only to migrate off topic questions.

I'm honestly not bothered by it. I was just wondering the logic.

And @maple_shaft I don't believe I was the one who tagged it with C. Just for the record.

user55340

1:45 PM

@RubberDuck we've had a history of multiply posted identical questions here and the general consensus of the community has been "migrate to merge"

user55340

Looking at the SE goal of having a search that returns one spot (rather than dozens of forums) speaks to this.

RubberDuck

Fair enough.

gnat

this can be OK, so long as the question is tailored to each audience on the different sites and is materially different in each case. Just to be 100% clear, copy-pasting a question across sites with no changes is considered abusive behavor. — Jeff Atwood ♦ Jan 15 '11 at 3:51

user55340

@RubberDuck the history of the community is also important and hard to account for. We had a user who was insistent of posting the question to as many sites as could be reasonable.

durron597

@gnat @RubberDuck This.

user55340

1:55 PM

10

Q: Should cross-posting be allowed sometimes on Programmers?

I ask the community. The following question here led to the OP asking the greater meta.stackexchange.com site here which seems to have a broader and more popular consensus that when a question is well received and on topic that it should not be closed as "Off-Topic" for purposes of preventing cr...

discussion faq-proposed cross-posting

user55340

For example, this question was posted (identical) on p.se, math, so, and cs.

user55340

4

Q: Japanese Multiplication simulation - is a program actually capable of improving calculation speed?

I'd like to write a simulation of Japanese Multiplication to get benchmarks on large calculations utilizing the shortcut vs traditional CPU multiplication. I'm curious as to whether it makes sense to try this. My Question: I'd like to know whether or not a software math shortcut, as described ...

math theory cpu

durron597

@MichaelT Is it time for us to go through the faq-proposed cleanup again?

user55340

@durron597 poke at my last post on it - I don't think much has changed.

gnat

on the other hand...

2

Q: Why was this flag declined?

I flagged a question using this message: as complained in comments, cross-posted at SO: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/284058/… (flagging per http://meta.stackexchange.com/tags/cross-posting/info - "If you spot a user cross-posting, please make use of moderator flags to inform the mo...

support declined-flags cross-posting

:)

I check for cross-posting for reasons that have nothing to do with flags or moderators (in fact, my reasons are not even specific to Stack Exchange). It's up to moderators to decide whether they want to be additionally notified of my findings or not. Neither flagging nor abstaining of flags is hard to me. I only don't want to play russian roulette guessing whether moderator is in the mood to accept or decline my flag — gnat May 17 at 17:45

...and yeah, I don't flag for cross-posting since (I sometimes flag cross-posts but for other reasons)

user55340

2:03 PM

Not sure if there was a flag or if it was a mod to mod communication (or a flag with "I'm a mod there and want to merge this")

user55340

There are wordings and credentials which make flags more likely to be handled.

user55340

Back when I was flagging for so to p.se migration, promising to make sure the question doesn't get an immediate reject made favorable flag handling more likely.

user55340

Anyways... @RubberDuck if you want a version of that question here, we'd likely be happy to help craft it in here so that it's the best that can be asked.

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT Migration is only for off-topic questions. I'd say that 99% of questions should be tailored to each community. It's OK to ask the same question on multiple communities, but only a small number (that 1%) can actually be directly posted on one or more communities and actually be a good question.

user55340

@ThomasOwens I believe that policy is in conflict with the "search brings you to one place" founding principle.

Thomas Owens

2:13 PM

@MichaelT That's a silly principle today. We're communities of experts. Didn't someone do an experiment where they asked an algorithm question here and on Computer Science and compared the answers they got?

user55340

It is something that SE should look more into and give better guidance on as it's often a point of stress and poor user experience.

user55340

The infamous croissants

Thomas Owens

Oh, yeah.

user55340

Glen and Giles did that.

durron597

@MichaelT Removed a couple of entries.

user41796

2:17 PM

@MichaelT And then some evil mod removed the SO version. <sigh>

user55340

6

A: Can cross-posts actually be valuable to two communities, with the exception of being worded identically?

We're here again? A good question is very unlikely to be identical on multiple sites I've discussed the no-cross-post debates over the months and I never could understand what was wrong with posting an identical question on two sites when it was perfect for both sites as-is. It is pure hub...

user55340

3

A: Can cross-posts actually be valuable to two communities, with the exception of being worded identically?

I wrote a pretty good answer on Arqade as to why cross posting questions tends to be problematic. The core argument is that even if the question is the exact same, the answers won't be, and will make assumptions on core competencies and approach taken. I particularly like the last paragraph: ...

user55340

Having clear guidance on how multiple sites interact is something that should come from SE. I have yet to see it.

user41796

@MichaelT Talk about someone who kept jumping from meta to meta just to find someone who agreed with their abusive behavior

user41796

"Look at all the bullies over there! I couldn't possibly be the problem!"

user55340

2:22 PM

I do have a proposal for how to get better cross site eyeballs.

user55340

9

Q: Add a limited cross site question feed to the main page

Often people have lamented the "this is appropriate on multiple sites, but people yell if I post copies of it on both" or "I'd post it on the other site, but it doesn't get enough eyeballs - this one gets more (even though its off topic here)". This is a problem. The answer to this problem woul...

feature-request tags rss site-crossover

user55340

@GlenH7 from academia:

user55340

@Moriarty In grad school I was, roommates had we. Hmm. Problems some had. Hard was sharing. Nightmare roommates some had. Again and again. Nightmare roommates they were! Strong is the projection of blame in them. Yes. Hmm. — MichaelT Jun 8 at 21:01

Thomas Owens

Construx has been publishing a lot of good videos to YouTube.

user55340

(Read other comments for context)

user55340

2:24 PM

There is only one way this answer could be improved: by re-writing it in yodaspeak. — Moriarty Jun 5 at 12:06

user41796

@MichaelT Nice...

enderland

@MichaelT that question/answer is particularly... meaningful to me considering that in a few days I'm going to start the formal process to complain about and remove (perhaps against his will) my graduate adviser

Thomas Owens

TIL Eclipse Mars dropped support for JDK 1.6.

gnat

@ThomasOwens ...which is not surprising, if you take into account that even next version, JDK 1.7 reached End-of-Life in April 2015

user41796

@enderland He's not willing to voluntarily leave?

user55340

2:32 PM

Still have two systems here running 1.6 on the server.

user41796

I've seen some ugly situations, but I've never seen a case where an adviser wouldn't step down if asked. Being an adviser takes a level of effort on their part and if that effort isn't appreciated, just as easy to move along

enderland

@GlenH7 I'm not sure yet, the documentation for my complaints against him is pretty compelling and I do actually want to finish my degree

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT Yeah. I should see about pressing the issue.

Ampt

@MichaelT Did you see the new intelliJ 15 preview? HiDPI support!

user41796

@enderland Is this your primary adviser or just those who are on your thesis / dissertation board?

user55340

2:34 PM

@Ampt yep. You are a happy person now.

Ampt

@MichaelT soooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo happy

gnat

@MichaelT that's insecure. Just like systems with 1.7 became insecure since April. An option for those with money is buy paid support for old stuff. I think both Oracle and IBM offer support to older versions. Even for Java 1.4, go figure :)

enderland

I am basically going to not finish with a thesis based masters, and do a project based one - I don't know if this is something he will take well (and frankly he won't since the person he is which has caused this problem)

@GlenH7 My primary adviser for my thesis work

user41796

Ouch.

user41796

So that certainly gets more difficult. Is there another adviser who is willing to pick you up?

enderland

2:35 PM

I sent my last draft on March30th and have not received any feedback yet (4.5 months now) and the previous two times were both 3+ months

@GlenH7 My goal is to convert my thesis into "indepdent study" credits, take a 3 credit "capstone project" class and finish

user55340

@gnat that requires multiple government agencies to update. This is not a fast process. ... And update our server software which requires new support contracts. This is not a fast process.

user41796

@enderland Have a chat with the graduate office or dean first to make sure that will work

user41796

Worst case is you get into a spat with your first adviser and now no one will touch you. So you end up being screwed and can't finish things out.

durron597

@Ampt Also, it's coffee day today!

Ampt

@durron597 Right? It's just all goin my way today!

enderland

2:40 PM

@GlenH7 oh I know, this is such a mess :( I sent an email to my adviser asking for permission to convert some credits to "independent study" credits sunday night, if I don't hear back I'm going to forward to the grad program director and basically raise hell (since my adviser has a list of things that are pretty self-incriminating, like, explicitly telling me to not contact my committee without his approval)

durron597

@enderland ouch.

enderland

he is by far the worst boss I will EVER have in my career, almost assuredly

user41796

@enderland Just tread carefully and try to have as many face-to-face conversations first where you lay the groundwork. Unfortunately, it becomes an "us vs. them" scenario where the academics rally around each other and they won't rat their fellow profs out.

enderland

@GlenH7 I think in this case, the facts of the case are actually compelling enough that it's pretty much impossible for me to "lose" - but I've thought about stopping by in person to meet with the two graduate directors (since I fortunately live in person there still)

user41796

@enderland You'd be surprised about how with even the most compelling evidence that you still end up losing.

enderland

2:44 PM

@GlenH7 yeah. well I'm basically laying a very clear email trail too

my last email was basically "bait" in some sense, if he doesn't respond then I have more evidence that I've tried to work with my adviser to no response

I don't hold my breath about my adviser ever apologizing, the only times I see him apologize are carefully calculated sympathy moves

durron597

@enderland Sounds like classic NPD

enderland

It'd be nice if he just says, "I approve changing some of your credits and getting you finished"

durron597

He doesn't care about your problems, only his own

enderland

@durron597 wow, reading wiki on that is like reading a biography

user41796

An additional tactic to consider is ratcheting up your level of neediness so he has an incentive to help get you out the door.

enderland

2:48 PM

@GlenH7 I've thought about that, but I don't trust/expect that even if I was going to be fired from my job in December if I didn't finish would phase him

durron597

@enderland Unfortunately I'm well versed in it.

user41796

"Let's have a weekly, hour long phone call to go over matters."

user41796

Email at least 2 or 3 times per week, including follow-up emails "Hey, have you had a chance to get to this?"

enderland

see the thing is, that all rational approaches completely fail - you'd think that a weekly phone call to discuss would be a great approach but he would NEVER give a grad student that much time

user41796

Regardless of the likely NPD, you have to make yourself a nuisance so he wants to get rid of you.

enderland

2:49 PM

and if he feels someone is manipulating him, he gets... emotional and basically childish in his "getting back" perspective

which is why I am treading very carefully

durron597

You have to phrase everything about how it helps him

user41796

^^^ This

durron597

The trouble is, it has to be about the things he actually cares about, not about the things you think he should care about.

enderland

@durron597 the problem is: he has literally no incentive to help me, except with the threat of me escalating to the university

he doesn't care about students graduating (or on a personal level, at least from his actions) and it's not even just me who have significant delays in getting meaningful feedback

offering for me to basically quit my thesis/convert it to indepent study basically is the "this requires 10 seconds of your work to approve and then you never need to spend another minute on enderland" option

durron597

I would probably say "I need X done. If you don't have time (I understand you have a lot on your plate) I'll bring it to the dean"

It is a threat, but it might not come across as one

enderland

2:52 PM

@durron597 that's basically the nuclear button and will raise hell like none other and make him incredibly pissed off (which at that point I won't care)

durron597

it's not the nuclear button if you phrase it that way

enderland

I am already convinced my goal is to do a non-thesis option, dealing with my adviser is like throwing a grenade

durron597

just say "here are my needs. if you can't meet them I will find someone else who can"

enderland

@durron597 threats or perceived threats go over really poorly

@durron597 the problem with that is I still need his approval basically to do anything (your adviser in grad school has so much - too much - control over your MS/PhD)

like, the problem is, all reasonable approaches run up against someone who is completely a control freak/micromanager and yet doesn't put any time into his students - it's part of the reason I want out of that relationship

like, it should not even be normal for an adviser to take 3+ months to get back to anyone about any of their research work (this alone is a WTF?!?!? thing to most people with reasonable graduate experiences) and it's a fundamental assumption here... :(

user41796

@enderland I'd bet a dollar that having an in-person conversation with either of the graduate directors will be both very informative and very eye opening.

durron597

2:56 PM

@enderland Some good stuff here

enderland

@GlenH7 one of the graduate directors is sorta this guys boss, too

durron597

44

Q: What are some options for a graduate student abandoned by Ph. D advisor?

I'm currently doing a PhD in applied mathematics, I'm about to start my final year. The problem that I've been working on for the last 2 years was originally proposed by my advisor and one of his colleagues. The direction of research wasn't that good, the problem had already been studied by ...

phd graduate-school advisor

user41796

@enderland My brother ran into some delays like that when he was closing out his thesis. That said, it was with his committee and his adviser was good about helping prod things when my brother pointed it out.

enderland

@durron597 yeah I've read a lot of them, but again, my adviser does not fit the mold for "completely disinterested adviser"

@GlenH7 yeah, that's normal and how it should work

user41796

@enderland I'd argue that's not how it should work, but that's a different conversation.

enderland

2:58 PM

@GlenH7 hey I'd be happy to have that situation now :)

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