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user55340
00:26
@RobertHarvey How about those good ole Vax 780s?
user55340
user image
user55340
Wait... something funny with that one.
user55340
user image
user55340
toyvax.glendale.ca.us/~vance/vaxbar.html
user55340
... and out of close votes.
user15026
00:43
Cheap peach flavoured sparkling wine + cheap fake orange juice + random lychee nectar juice thing = pretty tasty
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey 
Foo defer_expensive (Thunk cheap, Thunk expensive) {
    if (Foo good_enough = force (cheap)) {
        return good_enough; }
    else {
        return force (expensive); }}
This actually makes sense... C in Python style, without removing the braces.
user55340
01:05
@AshleyNunn As a... um... I won't say an oenophile, but I can appreciate it... peach flavored sparkling wine sounds like an abomination. Though at least it wasn't Arbor Mist... Please tell me it wasn't Arbor Mist.
user15026
@MichaelT Nope, Bambino. There might be Arbor Mist on my counter though....
user55340
...
user55340
Get this girl some whiskey! Stat!
user15026
shrug If I had the money for better, I'd do, but I don't. So I will futz about with my wine beverage abominations until better things come about.
user15026
Like I know it's just pretty much "juice that happens to be sold at the LCBO" and have no designs on thinking this is what wine tastes like.
user55340
01:10
(note, you're talking to someone who once did peach stoli vodka + tang)
user15026
@MichaelT That sounds delicious!
user55340
Mmm... fuzzy cosmonauts.
user15026
Then again I have a ridiculous love for tang.
user55340
Letter To A Young Programmer Considering A Startup
3
user20683
@MichaelT We are willing watching the D&D movie, it's her first time. Hopefully our last time. Thus the cheap wine is necessary.
user55340
01:21
Btw, you know what Jonathan Coulton's current job is? He's the music for NPR's Ask Me Another... npr.org/2014/08/14/340113246/thong-song-gone-wrong
user55340
You may also enjoy listening to npr.org/2014/08/14/340113255/… ...
user55340
> Anthony Jeselnik's Rules For Roasting
1. Don't get too drunk.
2. Don't stay too sober.
3. It is better to break rule #1 than it is to break rule #2.
4. Never actually agree to take part in a roast. They're awful.
user55340
That sounds fairly useful for coding too...
Duga
Duga
01:39
@scuzzlebuzzle Conceptual questions are better suited to another site, like Programmers maybe, Overflow is for specific problems with your code. Not theory or concept. Thanks — Notorious Pet0 23 secs ago
user55340
01:52
I'm going to apologize now... I made fun of Canadian hockey performance in the playoffs. Sorry.
user55340
@Undo I am under the impression that the interview was during a playoff game while beer was being imbibed rather than the morning after with the disappointment of your team's performance (admit it, they're going to get beat by teams that have no snow on the ground at the rink in December) and the hangover casting a shadow over the cognitive facilities. — MichaelT 5 mins ago
user15026
@MichaelT I am not sure what team you are trying to reference here, because Leafs didn't make playoffs, Habs are still in it for now, Calgary just went out. I mean if Habs make it out of a 3-0 deficit to make it to the next round I will be a little shocked, but it has happened.
user15026
I mean I don't (for obvious reasons) want the Habs to go any farther, but hey.
user55340
@AshleyNunn Calgary vs Anaheim (California) and Montreal vs Tampa Bay (Florida) if I read the tree right ( nhl.com/ice/stanleycup.htm )
user15026
New York and Washington get December snow (afaik), as does Chicago - the only one still in guaranteed to have the least chance of December snow is Anaheim.
user15026
01:59
Calgary just lost to Anaheim
user55340
@AshleyNunn Current temperature in Anaheim is 74F.
user15026
So its Blackhawks/Ducks, and then whoever wins the Habs/Lightning and Caps/Rangers matchups.
user15026
So while I get how you got there, it's not the strongest jab at my country ever.
user55340
Habs/Lightning is 2-3... they can make a comeback... but I'm still admitting to teasing a Canadian about national sport hockey religion.
user15026
Habs have to win every one they've got yet, that's very much statistically unlikely. I think, if I remember the stats right, only 6 teams have done it.
user15026
02:02
And really, no snow in December doesn't mean much when it comes to ability to have a good team....
user55340
@AshleyNunn As a Wisconsonian, I still think hockey in places where there is no snow is... somehow wrong. Go Wilds!
user15026
Hey it means cheap tickets, usually :)
user15026
At least, that's what I've heard.
user15026
@MichaelT Wild singular :P
user55340
There is no 'I' in team.
user15026
02:05
No, but there's no "s" on the team name either ;)
user15026
(Also, I know I should root for the remaining Canadian team, but I just can't do it. I can't be a playoff Habs fan :P)
user15026
I need to pick a good American team to follow instead.
user55340
@AshleyNunn somewhere it snows in winter...
user15026
@MichaelT That leaves me the Caps, Rangers, and Hawks.
user55340
@AshleyNunn ... you're not going to join with the one Minnesota team that Wisconsin can root for?
user15026
02:08
@MichaelT Oh yeah, and the Wild. :)
user15026
Hm.
user55340
Wait, they lost to Chicago.
user55340
The Bears still suck!
user15026
hahahaha there we go.
user15026
So not Chicago, then, because they kicked out the Wild.
user55340
02:09
Ok... so its got to be the team that wins the rangers vs capitals.
user15026
So, Caps or Rangers....might pick Rangers because my local team used to be their farm team (We're the Kitchener Rangers)
user15026
@MichaelT or you know, this would work too :P
user55340
For SF vs Oakland I know people who pick the winning team of the cross divisional game to root for.
user55340
(Baseball... 49ers fans would never root for Raiders)
user15026
Baseball is a sport I know very little about.
user55340
02:11
@AshleyNunn there's a team up there...
user55340
Toronto Blue Jays
The Toronto Blue Jays are a Canadian professional baseball team based in Toronto, Ontario. The Blue Jays are a member of the East Division of Major League Baseball (MLB)'s American League (AL), and play their home games at Rogers Centre. The "Blue Jays" name originates from the bird of the same name, and blue is also the traditional colour of Toronto's other professional sports teams: the Maple Leafs (ice hockey) and the Argonauts (Canadian football). In addition, the team was originally owned by the Labatt Brewing Company, makers of the popular beer Labatt's Blue. Nicknamed "the Jays", the team...
user15026
@MichaelT Yeah, I've watched the Jays play a few times in my life, but it goes so slowly
user15026
I've never seen the Argos play, but then again I've never seen a live pro football game.
user55340
Gives you time to sit back and enjoy your wine... oh, wait, channeling Giants and Pac Bell AT&T there.
user55340
(In San Francisco, on the 600 block of Folsom St, there are two buildings on the even side... Metromile is at 680... AT&T is at 666)
user55340
02:18
user image
user55340
That just has 'evil' written all over it.
user15026
@MichaelT That really, really does.
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
02:46
How current does an HTML5 book have to be to be a good book, all other things being equal?
Have things changed a lot in the last year? The last three years?
user55340
03:00
That making a difference question... one of the tangent projects on another team that I work with is working on an online financial management application for offenders who have been released... to help them not get into financial trouble again so that they don't feel the need to reoffend. Its not glamorous, but I'd contend that it is making a difference.
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
03:21
Yep. If it's a good software project, it's already making a difference. Few software projects don't matter, unless you're a cog in the wheel of some enterprise application. Even then, it's not so bad unless they're building bombs or something.
user55340
03:40
One bit to realize is that the making a difference somehow are often cogs in the bigger machine.
user55340
You're not likely a rocket scientist working for SpaceX... as a programmer, you're more likely digging in the IT department for some large company... that enables the builds and testing for the embedded software in rocket ships snow plows that help keep the roads clear so that the rocket scientists can get to work.
Ampt
Ampt
0
Q: How to remove the 'Trial' symbol when I generate QRCode by iReport with barcode.jar?

WYCCHAAAAI generate QRCode by iReport with barcode.jar.But the QRCode has a 'Trial' symbol .How to remove it ? Thanks!

barcode
howabout no
durron597
durron597
teaching tag is down to only 11 open questions. click this link if you want to help close them
Ampt
Ampt
03:57
@durron597 down to 10 now, and there are a few on the fence (4)
durron597
durron597
@Ampt sweet thx
user114359
04:31
I'll help tomorrow. I mean today. Same thing. Yawn.
durron597
durron597
@Snowman Heh, you probably already closed all those questions.
 
1 hour later…
Duga
Duga
05:39
This isn't too on-topic for StackOverflow. You might also want to try over at Programming StackExchange. — Will 41 secs ago
 
1 hour later…
Stack Exchange
Stack Exchange
07:02
Lambda the Ultimate - Programming Languages Weblog: FLOPS 2016, promoting cross-fertilization across the whole declarative programming and theory and…
posted on May 11, 2015

LtU generally is not appropriate venue for posting call-for-papers, but there have been exceptions, if the CFP has an exceptionally wide appeal. Hopefully FLOPS 2016 might qualify. http://www.info.kochi-tech.ac.jp/FLOPS2016/ FLOPS has been established to promote cooperation between logic and functional programmers, hence the name. This year we have taken the name exceptionally seriously, to…

 
1 hour later…
Duga
Duga
08:07
Welcome to StackOverflow. The questions you're asked are very good questions for a programmer to ask, but unfortunately they simple fall right outside the guidelines for StackOverflow. You might have better luck at programmers.stackexchange.com — GreenAsJade 17 secs ago
Duga
Duga
08:46
Better suited on programmers? If this was a member of my team I was working with, I'd first of all read the commit message/ any comments around the piece of code I was unsure you (as you have done). Then if i still didn't understand it, maybe follow the code through, and see what it does. If i still wasn't sure what was going on, I'd attempt to ask someone that is more familiar with the project, preferably the guy that added that portion of code. — MLeFevre just now
 
4 hours later…
durron597
durron597
13:07
Current STCI status: learning 189 open questions / education 44 open questions
user55340
13:31
@durron597 you need to write a stci reporting bot.
durron597
durron597
user image
user55340
For the challenge!
durron597
durron597
@MichaelT Ah. "need" seems a bit extreme, then :)
user55340
The lazy compels you... And don't forget hubris.
overexchange
overexchange
14:09
user image
In this usecase diagram, why "bank security" is not part of the system? Is it external system?
André
André
that <<security>> actor there?
overexchange
overexchange
yes
Telastyn
Telastyn
people are not part of software systems, rather by definition.
overexchange
overexchange
here <<security>> is not person as displayed. bank customer is person. I think <<security>> is considered another system.
André
André
If you call the <<security>> as Bank, doesn't that solve your issue?
<<security>> is a Actor of the use case. whether is a person, system, bird. I don't see why a use case diagram is supposed to map that
overexchange
overexchange
14:16
context is ATM machine software, where <<security>> validates the card and validate existing balance.
André
André
so there you go! :-)
> In software and systems engineering, a use case is a list of steps, typically defining interactions between a role (known in Unified Modeling Language (UML) as an "actor") and a system, to achieve a goal. The actor can be a human, an external system, or time.
overexchange
overexchange
so things(conceptual/physical) who perform action(like verify card/..) should not be part of the system?
ok
so <<security>> is a role?
user41796
@overexchange Security is more properly defined as both a system and an actor
user41796
A role can belong to an actor
André
André
I'd understand this diagram as there is a external system that validates the funds and stuff, the system would interact with it
user41796
14:20
And I would separate out authentication / authorization mechanisms from available balance type services
user41796
@André Yes, external systems to the use case are defined as actors
user55340
Heh. One of the entries in the ascii art tree challenge is using an interpreter written for language design challenge two months ago.
Telastyn
Telastyn
@overexchange - it's got a head, and stick arms and stick legs, it's a person.
user55340
@Telastyn the phantasmid person?
user55340
Phasmatodea
The Phasmatodea (sometimes called Phasmida or Phasmatoptera) are an order of insects, whose members are variously known as stick insects (in Europe and Australasia), walking sticks or stick-bugs (in the United States and Canada), phasmids, ghost insects and leaf insects (generally the family Phylliidae). The ordinal name is derived from the Ancient Greek φάσμα phasma, meaning an apparition or phantom, and refers to the resemblance of many species to sticks or leaves. Their natural camouflage can make them extremely difficult to spot. Phasmatodea can be found all over the world in warmer zones,...
overexchange
overexchange
14:27
@GlenH7 So, bank customer is a person and an actor in this use case where as <<security>> is an external system and an actor in this use case.
user41796
yes
overexchange
overexchange
thank you
user41796
And there ought to be some sort of "bank teller" system / actor to handle the transactional work
overexchange
overexchange
ok
Telastyn
Telastyn
@MichaelT - yeah, they're the only sort that can interact with software systems.
overexchange
overexchange
14:31
you mean that box in the diagram that does the transactional work?
user55340
@Telastyn it can masquerade as 1s and 0s which computer systems regard as data.
user41796
@overexchange Anything to do with funds should be done by a teller, not security
user41796
When you walk into a bank, the guard doesn't handle your request that day, the bank teller does.
user41796
The guard just verifies you're allowed to be there
user41796
It's a separation of responsibilities
user41796
14:35
Otherwise your security object becomes bloated with a lot of functions that are unrelated to the primary responsibility (ie. "provide security") of the class.
overexchange
overexchange
security comes with <<>> symbol(how do we call this?) and bank customer uses note symbol(a box) in use case? How do we decide that usage?
Telastyn
Telastyn
@MichaelT - not so much, it's got the tiny arms that can manipulate the bits. normal people fingers are too fat.
overexchange
overexchange
separation of responsibilities i think I would learn in design patterns or OOD, not sure
user41796
separation of responsibilities is fundamental to object oriented design. Design patterns are effectively unrelated.
user41796
Generating (good) use cases also relies upon separation of responsibilities
André
André
14:39
@overexchange, not sure about <<>> or the boxes, here is how I usually write actors sparxsystems.com/resources/uml2_tutorial/…
overexchange
overexchange
the author calls <<>>, something like gilmot. could not spell out.
user41796
burn please: programmers.stackexchange.com/q/283467/53019
overexchange
overexchange
In this sequence of software development course, am currently learning UML( started). so am yet to start OOD. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OkC7HKtiZC0&list=PLGLfVvz_LVvQ5G-LdJ8RLqe-ndo7QITYc
youtube.com/…
youtube.com/…
youtube.com/…
youtube.com/…
user55340
@GlenH7 needs either three down votes or two days.
user41796
@overexchange That's like saying "I'm learning to drive a car and haven't learned how to use the brakes yet. I'll learn that later."
overexchange
overexchange
14:47
but the author of these courses has recommended to follow this sequence UML -> OOD -> Design Pattern -> Code refact -> java algo based on his past software dev experience in Apple
Telastyn
Telastyn
those that can't do, teach.
user55340
That's excessive for most situations.
user41796
9 mins ago, by GlenH7
Generating (good) use cases also relies upon separation of responsibilities
overexchange
overexchange
ok
user41796
@overexchange It's likely that the author of those courses considers SRP to be so fundamental to proper design that it's assumed you already know to do so.
user55340
14:49
Design -> code. Refactor when appropriate. Design patterns when the problem they solve is encountered.
user41796
In other words, they assume you are already following SRP
overexchange
overexchange
@GlenH7 I think the author is currently explaining how UML diagrams are used to express in layman terms? "how to" part can be understood when OOD is done. I understand what you say.
My current bet is, completing SICP to learn programming and follow this sequence chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/21595807#21595807 to apply for a job as java developer.
André
André
I'm sure there are great books around about system design and UML, take sometime googling about those, good luck with your studies :-)
overexchange
overexchange
15:10
thank you
A use case is the specification of a set of actions performed by a system, which yields an observable result that is, typically, of value for one or more actors or other stakeholders of the system If each ellipse in the system is use case then what does set of actions mean for use case "Insert Card" in my diagram?
Ampt
Ampt
15:26
can I just say that I'm almost certain that the internet will make future archaeology more interesting than less?
you come across some of these old progs profiles and wonder where these people went
I know, I know, the great rescoping of progs and all, but it's just so interesting to see people with thousands of rep, who haven't even logged in in >3 years
maybe their profile links to a blog they made one post on 4+ years ago
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
I don't remember where I read it but I once read an interesting perspective saying at the rate people study historical folks, thousands of years from now there will be so many more people vs. the number they're studying that everyone studying the histories will be hanging off every letter of some solemn boring persons twitter account trying to write dissertations on Richard The Not-Quite-Mathematician-Who-Went-Into-Construction
user41796
@Ampt As we continue to clean out the cruft, it will be interesting to see high rep users with no questions or answers publicly associated with their profiles.
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
have to figure out where I read that.. it was pretty funny but also just a neat depiction taking a scenario to it's maximal conclusion
Ampt
Ampt
@JimmyHoffa nah, I think with the rate at which people generate junk, it will become a case of "what in here is actually important, and changed this person life" rather than "we only found this one artifact that represented this entire tribe, I wonder how we can extrapolate"
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@Ampt nah because the point was the population of people studying historical stuff will be such that they'll all be fighting to get rights to be the one studying anything since there won't be enough for them all to study
user55340
15:32
The fragments of Pythagaras is an ancient Twitter?
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
but yes, the truth is the amount of information on record these days vs. in the whole of the historical record is going to make for some big changes to historical studies
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
My friends and family keep sending me IT job listings. Apparently, they don't understand what I do.
user41796
@RobertHarvey You work with computers, right?
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
[sigh]
user41796
And, oh, hey, um, my PC has been acting real weird lately. Could you take a look at it?
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
15:38
Yeah.
Everyone understands what a bartender does.
user41796
That's an easy one - they make us happy!
user55340
@RobertHarvey as long as they don't start sending you QA position openings...
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Blecch.
Got a poke from Amazon. I'm taking their programming test on HackerRank today.
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
haha just heard our scrum master say "We've evolved beyond the standups" (translation: Let's just not do standups, process is stupid; stupid process. Scrum doesn't need process!)
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
So now it's just scum?
But Amazon is looking for rock stars, just like everyone else.
Employer^^'s Programming Manager left for better pastures.
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
15:42
We never had planning meetings, only did standups and hardly that so... how people convince themselves they're doing scrum when they're doing...nothing... is just silly. Not that I care for scrum, I just hate the lying-to-yourselves people do; gets in the way of getting shit done if you can't be honest.
user41796
@RobertHarvey Yes and no. I think their hiring practices have had to evolve in light of changing scale for them. They can't afford to only hire purple squirrels anymore.
user41796
@RobertHarvey Did you follow up with him to find out if there's additional roles at his new gig?
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@GlenH7 I poked him this morning. Funny how I knew something was up months ago when I interviewed. Just felt a weird vibe from him.
Like he was tired, worn out.
user41796
The "any pasture is greener than this pasture" state of mind. Been there.
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 dangerous state of mind; I've gone from the pot into the frying pan with that one before..
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
15:45
In this case, it might be true.
Employer^^ was a very hard guy to work for.
And he's had a history of not being able to hold on to people.
Though his PM was there for 7 years.
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
It's surprising how bad things can be. I worked a job where the manager fired and hired someone new every 3-6 months just because he had an overabundance of temper and lack of maturity.
and he did that with only a team of 7 people
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
@JimmyHoffa average turnaround of 3.5 years?
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
one of those things you can never know until you start working there
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
@JimmyHoffa or ask the right questions to the interviewer
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ratchetfreak they lie; he lied.
told me his team had been with him for over 6 years; turned out only one guy had been there that long and everyone else was much shorter. He also told me it was a guaranteed hire after the contract period- he was only doing the contract because it was how his business worked. Turned out he only had like 2 full time guys and everyone else he wouldn't bring on full time, likely because it would make it harder to fire them when he was in a mood.
@ratchetfreak just can't never know what you're getting into. I learned my lesson- there's almost always somewhere worse you can be. Which is one shitty reason to stay where you are but people are messed up.
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
15:54
Weird engagement conditions (i.e. contract-to-hire without good reason, two-year salary offers) are a big red flag, IMO.
I applied for the gopher position at the college. It's one year where I'm making money while I look elsewhere.
JoeP
JoeP
Hey guys, I got pointed here for posting this question: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/283626/…
user41796
@JimmyHoffa Yes, but now you know you've found your local "rock bottom." Nothing will be worse than that. :-)
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@RobertHarvey yeah, there's always lots of red flags to watch for, hard to ever know what all to watch out for.
JoeP
JoeP
anyone wanna chat about it??
user41796
For reference:
user41796
15:55
-3
Q: More than just a 'programmer'

JoePSo with the constantly changing technological world we live in, every year it seems we move further and further from 'the metal' so to speak. Abstraction increases all the time, and the entry barrier to become a programmer is constantly lowering. For example I just attended a job fair for my comp...

self-improvement computer-science
JoeP
JoeP
oh cool thats nice
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@GlenH7 hah! I'm terrified of where I could end up worse than that; but if that taught me anything, it's that there are worse places to be whether you can imagine them or not.
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@JoeP Oh, I totally don't agree with your initial premise. You have to know more than ever to be a productive programmer.
Telastyn
Telastyn
the entry barrier to become a programmer is constantly lowering - I'm not sure I agree.
user55340
@JoeP btw, welcome to chat.
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
15:57
> It seems like programmers are a dime a dozen these days
^- depends on the coder
user55340
Entry level web form designers in some markets... Yes.
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
But it turns out that the Programmer/Analyst the college hired fell through (they passed me up for someone else). They gave him something to do, he couldn't do it, and they fired him. Now they're interviewing for the job again.
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
Embedded systems coders? Far less common than javascripting CSS-full website prettying folk
Telastyn
Telastyn
if you want to do deeper stuff, then do deeper stuff. Yeah, plumbing up webpages is the common garbage work of the programming field
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
The Programmer/Analyst job makes about 15K more than the gopher job.
So now I'm interviewing for the wrong job (on Thursday).
user55340
15:59
An actual coder who can go from ER diagram, mvc web app, html and jquery? Not as common.
user41796
@RobertHarvey Can you talk to their HR and get put back into consideration for the P/A role? Or is that not kosher with that crowd? I remember them having .... odd interviewing practices.
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