The Whiteboard

user41796

5:00 PM

@SimonAndréForsberg Yeah, bad Duga, bad. We wanted to pounce on that one. :-)

Robert Harvey

Why is that a bad one?

user41796

@RobertHarvey Duga didn't post it in here and should have

Robert Harvey

Oh.

Duga

@user2348184 - there's insufficient information to answer this question. It would get closed and possibly downvoted on Programmers. — GlenH7 2 mins ago

Robert Harvey

Heh.

Closing the barn door after the cows get home.

user41796

5:02 PM

Yep

Simon André Forsberg

I plan on adding some keywords to @Duga and assign 'scores' to them to make it better estimate what to post where.

user55340

Basket ball style points or soccer style points?

user55340

(80-63 vs 0-1)

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman you know what would make me happy? if amazon rocks wal-mart's and target's business and 10 years from now they've gotta change their business model to something other than impoverishing-employees-for-profit. Especially since Amazon actually pays all it's employees, factory and all decently I understand

Robert Harvey

Been giving some thought to that word origin question. Arrays are in assembly language, so it wouldn't surprise me if the first occurrence of the work was in the EDSAC in 1949, which had an assembler.

enderland

5:13 PM

Walmart/Target still will have their place for quite some time though @JimmyHoffa

user41796

And I thought Target paid a bit better than Walmart did

Simon André Forsberg

@MichaelT more likely soccer-style. Ideally though, I would like to have a number between 0 and 1 as a result.

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland 'course, would still be a nice world

user55340

Floating point soccer!

enderland

Problem is that a lot of people simply don't add economic value

It won't be long till Amazon more or less automates their warehouses entirely

And then those folks too will be out of a job

user55340

5:14 PM

"That penalty cost you 0.002486 points"

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I understand the same actually. Target can stay perhaps.

user55340

Amazon did buy some robot company not too long ago.

enderland

Much of their warehouses are already automated

Robert Harvey

People without skills are screwed. The only places that still use secretaries extensively are schools (oh, the irony).

In most places, people just write their own letters and spreadsheets now.

Jimmy Hoffa

true, unskilled workers just don't even make sense anymore... but the bigger problem is employers still aren't training. I wonder if that's going to be what evolves - as unskilled workers become less and less relevant, it's in tandem with skilled workers becoming more needed. Perhaps there's a tipping point where we require skilled workers enough that the supply is far below it and companies begin training the unskilled again. Amazon will start training people to maintain it's robots etc...

Alternatively, there will be a construction boom. Unskilled labor can always convert to skilled labor in the construction industry - carpenters, masons, roofers, HVAC, electricians...

Robert Harvey

5:22 PM

Employers want other employers to pay for their training.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey of course, but I wonder if a tipping point is on the horizon say 5, 15, 30 years from now where the demand for skilled workers is 40% above supply, or 60%, or whatever that causes a market evolution towards training

reality though seems more likely efficiency increases will ensure our demand for the labor never gets that far above supply...

Robert Harvey

We used to have excellent trade skills training in the schools. But I guess the community colleges have given up on that. AVC has maybe one programming class that it offers from time to time, and that's it.

Jimmy Hoffa

and then we're back to everyone starts learning to build buildings, and perhaps real estate becomes cheap as every unskilled laborer in the market is out building some structure or another...

enderland

The problem is "butt in seat" is becoming less cost effective to have actual humans vs robots/computers

Say 50 years ago there was a lot of economic value you could add simply by being a "butt in seat" type person

Now? Those jobs are becoming automated

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey it doesn't pay. Marketing has convinced people that it's unglamorous and you'll never make a dime - reality being that's marketing invented just to lead people to the more expensive choice of university for "mind smarts"

enderland

5:24 PM

Starbucks makes a machine that creates complicated lattes/etc already, how long until the entire store becomes a kiosk?

Manufacturing is already going automated in many regards

Food service just has such a low cost of labor that it's less viable

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland catch up - we already recognize unskilled labor is to be gone ASAP

enderland

But fast food or walmart types of stores have ridiculous turnover and that is a huge cost that computers/robots do NOT have

Jimmy Hoffa

but what happens next?

Mass exodus into the ocean as every high school drop out gets drunk and goes for The Last Swim ?

Robert Harvey

If we ever get to the point where a computer can read a CEO or business analyst's scrambled mind, we'll all be out of a job. I cost myself probably a decade (back in 1980) because I thought it would happen in 10 years (that computers would be programming themselves), but it never happened.

enderland

The demand now is arguably already higher than supply for skilled workers (especially knowledge workers)

Jimmy Hoffa

5:26 PM

@enderland yes, but not high enough to cause companies to train...is there a tipping point where that changes do you think?

enderland

Imo the limiting factor isn't training so much as... ability to learn and do the job

Jimmy Hoffa

demand at 120% of supply = we'll start training unskilled people ? Or ?

enderland

Some people just can't do technical jobs

Or, rather, will never put the time/effort into it (we can argue about whether there is actual skill involved or time, but the point is that many people will NEVER be able to do knowledge work jobs)

That limiting factor has nothing to do with training

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland I disagree. Skilled labor happens at multiple levels of complexity. Training to the level we are used to dealing with? Everyone around SE is an extreme outlier. Not even relevant and definitely not worth pondering as a part of any sample.

enderland

@JimmyHoffa Perhaps, but the roles of corporate drones chugging away and "adding value" are slowly being eliminated and refined into "can you actually add value?"

Robert Harvey

5:28 PM

@enderland Starbucks should be thinking in the other direction... Barristas that are friendly, engaging and get paid well. The product isn't just the coffee.

Who wants to get a coffee from a robot?

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey ah so a service industry boom perhaps usurps the unskilled laborers?

enderland

@RobertHarvey It depends, I imagine a large percentage of their business is drive-throughs and it's a heck of a lot cheaper to put a small kiosk up than it is to have a large store

Jimmy Hoffa

A population only needs so many services though...

Robert Harvey

There are always things that cannot be outsourced or automated. High-touch service industries are one of them. Imagine trying to buy a house without a Realtor.

user55340

@RobertHarvey kureg

Robert Harvey

5:30 PM

I love my Keurig, but when I go out for coffee I like making eye contact.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey true, but a city can only have N number of restaurants before new ones just don't get enough business and can't support themselves... service industry size has a maxima that's a function of local population and local economy

I think the number of unskilled laborers with nowhere else to go will nowhere near all fit into that industry...

Robert Harvey

Which is why more people need skills.

enderland

I am optimistic many people can learn new skills, but I am also realistic that many people cannot do that (or will not)

Jimmy Hoffa

Do you think the skilled labor supply will increase more rapidly than demand, to the point of reducing the unskilled laborers population?

Robert Harvey

There are some people who you wonder how they manage to get through an entire day.

Some of them don't. They just live in a state of perpetual catastrophe.

Jimmy Hoffa

5:33 PM

Where will all the unskilled laborers be 10, 20, 30 years from now when there's no longer but a teency number of unskilled jobs available? Will they have moved on to being skilled laborers? Will companies have begun training them with skills? Will they join the construction industry where skills are always acquirable? Will they take a long walk off a short pier?

I don't know the answers, but it's a curious thought to wonder

Robert Harvey

We're already there, sort of.

Getting a job without skills is very difficult.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey it's not glaring enough, much of the country still doesn't recognize the issue, it's getting worse and somewhere between 10 - 30 years from now it will be something everyone will recognize.

that's partially an issue of segregation though, people with skills know people with skills and don't run in the same circles with the other side of the coin, and vice versa. Many problems that are large like this are such that people don't realize them simply through social isolation.

Robert Harvey

But like @enderland said, some people are either unable or unwilling to learn job skills, and I think that proportion is increasing as technology gets more sophisticated and the job market gets more fiercely competitive.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey I didn't ask if there will be a huge unskilled labor population, I asked what that population will do.

What happens next?

Think about it. Who knows.

user41796

@RobertHarvey Likewise, lots of people have been fed a line ~~of shit~~ saying they should only work at a job that they love and that they're complete failures if they don't.

Robert Harvey

5:37 PM

Some people feel that they won't be given a fair shake, and my experience is that it is true to some degree. Companies want the "perfect" employee; they want someone that's psychologically sound, gung-ho about working there, organized at all times; problem-free, essentially. Someone that doesn't exist.

Someone they like.

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey and what will that population be doing in 30 years when it's 3 times the size of said population now?

Robert Harvey

Making iPads in China?

Jimmy Hoffa

@RobertHarvey mass people exportation?

I guess it could happen

I'm thinking the everyone's-going-to-be-building-something because they didn't know what else to do and so they learned to build houses is more likely than we start exporting low skilled people to other countries

Robert Harvey

Even housing is not immune. They've already figured out how to make click-together houses in a factory, using walls that already have the cutouts for wall sockets and light switches.

It takes about 72 hours to stand up such a house.

Jimmy Hoffa

I wonder if it will cause a new drive for organized labor? When there's 3 times as many unskilled hardly-employable laborers than today, it would be quite a force if they organized to say "From now on, all hair stylists are a member of the hair stylists union, and it takes 3 people to cut your hair."

Robert Harvey

5:42 PM

We already farm out most of our manufacturing to China because Americans want too much money to build things with their hands.

That won't stop until China workers demand $30/hour to build iPads.

Jimmy Hoffa

that actually seems kinda plausible. Perhaps when so many people are hardly employable, organized labor will really gain enough backing to cause some minimum-level-of-employment for tons of people, forcing companies to carry huge overheads just to avoid having their entire workforce walk-out (when 2 members of everyone's family goes unemployed for 2 years until those people join said union, lots of people will suddenly be pro-union)

it would be like privatized communism haha

oof that's a scary thought O_O

Robert Harvey

heh.

Hey, has anyone here had a good look at that Altair clone?

Jimmy Hoffa

but when half your countries population is unemployable, how do you feed them? Government's not going to do it...unions popping up to fill the hole kinda makes sense

Robert Harvey

I've often wondered if it weren't for China, how many people would actually own a smart phone? I think not so many.

They would either be too expensive, or Apple would make less profit, oh noes.

Here's what the inside of the original Altair looks like:

And this is what the inside of the clone looks like:

All of the required circuitry is in the front panel.

For fun, they actually provided ATX-compatible studs in the bottom, so that you can put a PC motherboard in it, if you want to.

Jimmy Hoffa

Slave labor has long been an amazing engine for innovation and progress. If it weren't for said spread of smart phones, where would tech be today? How messed up is that fact? Reality is disturbing at times...

durron597

5:53 PM

So I just looked at the SO review queues for the first time in quite awhile and saw the Triage category

If a question requires significantly more information is that a "should be improved" or "unsalvageable"

e.g. "My code is getting an IndexOutOfBoundsException HELP ME!" is the entire question

Robert Harvey

Is there guidance on Meta?

user41796

I'd vote for unsalvageable and burn it to the ground! :-)

Robert Harvey

@durron597 Looks like "unsalvageable" equates to "should be deleted."

durron597

@RobertHarvey It looks like an open question

61

A: Help us test question triage!

It's unclear to me what the cutoff point or difference is between "Should Be Improved" and "Unsalvageable". When I think something should be improved, usually it's because there's an applicable close reason. However, the close reasons are located under "Unsalvageable". Right now, "Should Be Im...

Robert Harvey

In my opinion, if a post is unsalvageable, it shouldn't be closed, it should be deleted. I think there should be 4 buttons: "looks ok", "needs improvement (from anyone)", "close (because OP must edit)", "unsalvageable - this needs to be deleted". — gunr2171 Dec 4 '14 at 13:43

I'm inclined to agree with that. Basically, "There's no hope for this question."

user41796

5:58 PM

Reminds self that I should get some moah repz on SO so I can review there too

durron597

@RobertHarvey It's one of those situations where the user has almost zero rep and would require massive effort that can only be given by the author to make the question usable

Robert Harvey

I'd call that unsalvageable.

durron597

@RobertHarvey Ah, unsalvageable brings up the flag box

Here's another nearly zero information one

stackoverflow.com/review/triage/7100188

Robert Harvey

@durron597 Right, so unsalvageable means "needs moderator attention," I guess. Though note that not all moderator flags make it directly to the diamond moderator queue. Some of them are put into the 10K queue for awhile.

@durron597 Yeah, that one is just off-topic.

durron597

I did Unsalvageable -> VTC (too broad)

Robert Harvey

6:04 PM

I suppose I should stop closing questions in that queue, and let their little experiment run its course.

There's a delete link right next to that flag link. See it? — Robert Harvey 7 mins ago

What is it about people and deleting their own questions? "Oh, my precious little snowflake."

user41796

copy-pasta doesn't take that long to do either...

Robert Harvey

Double-underscores are the reason I may never use Python.

durron597

Odd. I got a honeypot with 12 upvotes and I marked it as "needs improvement"... I passed though.

@RobertHarvey Don't you mean __Double__underscores__

Robert Harvey

GAH!

Jimmy Hoffa

6:19 PM

just for kicks I wrote a euler 54 txt file parser in Haskell

Robert Harvey

Well, let's see it.

Jimmy Hoffa

hastebin.com/evopuhukal.hs

just give the contents of poker.txt to readHands and get a list of (hand, hand)s

user114359

What's with the Euler 54 love recently?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman it's fun

Robert Harvey

@JimmyHoffa How much more Haskell code would be required to rank the hands?

Jimmy Hoffa

6:21 PM

@RobertHarvey dunno, haven't done that

was just messing around thinking about how to model the cards and if it made sense like I thought

Robert Harvey

Because that parser code is very concise. Though it doesn't really take all that much code to parse it in c#, I suppose.

Jimmy Hoffa

the suit is just a bitflag and the value is just 1-13 on that

user114359

@JimmyHoffa I agree, I am working my way through Project Euler myself. But it seems like lately everyone is latching on to that one problem out of hundreds.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Snowman it's just been brought up in here a few times because it is so easy to grok

Robert Harvey

And it has enough complexity to make it reasonably challenging from a programming perspective.

Jimmy Hoffa

6:25 PM

@RobertHarvey no it really doesn't, but I do like the simple clarity of the code there - the meaning of the suits and values is quite clear to read... though I suppose I could just have made a list of pairs and done a filter operation...may have been simpler...

durron597

@Snowman I only did it because @MichaelT mentioned it in here. Blame him ;)

Jimmy Hoffa

readCardSuit x = snd . head $ filter ((==x) . fst) [('H',32),('S',64),('C',128),('D',256)]

there's "less code" doesn't really make a lot of difference though

if I wanted to import the dictionary library I could just use that..

suits = M.fromList [('H',32),('S',64),('C',128),('D',256)]
readCardSuit x = case (M.lookup x suits) of Just a -> a

that's using a map

hastebin.com/jexicapeso.hs

Jimmy Hoffa

6:59 PM

hastebin.com/ixifubaket.hs

Playing in Haskell is fun...

user55340

8:02 PM

Ha! Close voted before @oded

user55340

0

Q: How should I go about making real time notifications in my php application?

Hi am building an application using mysql and laravel as the backend and angularjs as the front end. I would like to add some real time functionality to my application, something simple as when a user submits a comment to a post via a form, a remote user can then view that comment without the nee...

psr

@JimmyHoffa After cheap stuff like this fails to work. codeday.org

user114359

@durron597 @JimmyHoffa that's it, I'm going to have to code Euler 54 myself. I haven't gotten that far but I'll make an exception so I can join the cool kids' club.

durron597

@Snowman Aww you're sweet

user41796

@durron597 No, he's ice cold. He's a snowman after all...

user114359

8:12 PM

it was 5 degree during this morning's commute

user41796

@Snowman move South?

user41796

I think @Telastyn heard us talking about cold commutes to work and decided to join in

Telastyn

mere coincidence, but it was like -7 this morning. hurrah for heated garages.

user114359

I actually intend to move south but not yet. It's a long story, and a little too personal for sharing with the internet.

user114359

hurrah for remote start.

user114359

8:22 PM

my car will be nice and warm before my afternoon commute.

user41796

I think it was only in the teens for me, but I was grateful to walk into the attached garage to get in the car.

user41796

@Snowman Just do what the rest of us do - delete off the messages. :-)

enderland

@Telastyn even non-heated garages are nice in this weather...

durron597

60 degrees outside right now

i played tennis outside last night

enderland

It was below 0 actual temp this morning and a... good amount of wind chill

Telastyn

8:24 PM

I suppose.

durron597

@enderland any interesting workplace updates?

enderland

@durron597 No, actually

user55340

@Snowman 5 deg... Above zero? I was at 11... Below.

durron597

@enderland We still haven't filled our Java developer opening in Texas...

enderland

@durron597 I'm not experienced enough for that

user41796

8:30 PM

@enderland certainty can be good

durron597

@enderland We're hiring 21 year olds. I'm interviewing one tomorrow

user55340

Thinking of using a hue light for today's weather. HSL model. H = temp. S = precipitation amount. L = time of day.

enderland

@durron597 Yeah, but, they probably have more formal software dev background than I do

durron597

@enderland As a wet-behind-the-ears undergrad?

enderland

@durron597 I don't have a formal comp sci/comp e background

so a lot of the more "basic' CS stuff I just don't know

I have a TON more of the businessy and people side than most young'ins (and frankly probably most devs since on the whole software folks hate that side of things)

Telastyn

8:33 PM

in my experience anyone who visits this site for an hour knows more basic CS stuff than new grads.

durron597

@enderland I mean, look. If you don't want to pursue this because you hate warmth or because you just got married and don't want to move, that's one thing. But I know you to be very level headed and intelligent; let me decide if you're qualified

enderland

@durron597 lol. yeah the not moving thing hurts too :P

durron597

@enderland :)

user114359

8:54 PM

@durron597 what city in Texas?

durron597

@Snowman Houston

user41796

@durron597 you poor soul. It's a frigid 63F where you're at... Oh how do you ever survive???

user114359

Texas is too hot but some day I would consider Austin.

durron597

@GlenH7 THAT'S WHAT I'M SAYING, OH EM GEEEEEE

user55340

Snowman would melt?

durron597

8:56 PM

@Snowman Houston is cooler in summer and hotter in winter than Austin because it's closer to the Gulf.

user114359

I have family in Austin.

durron597

It's also only a 3 hour drive.

user55340

@durron597 but Austin has the cooler people.

user114359

but at the same time, the Cowboys play in neither of those cities, which is a plus.

durron597

@MichaelT True... until May - September, then they all become a sweaty sticky mess

@Snowman Indeed (Giants fan here)

user55340

8:58 PM

(Packers and the frozen tundra...)

durron597

@MichaelT Packers fans are just insane. No offense. I like watching them on TV but I'll never go to Lambeau.

user114359

Laugh all you want, but I'm from Cleveland. I love the Cavs and put up with the Browns.

user55340

Dome? What's that? Oh yea... Some team out west uses that when they think it's too cold despite their Scandinavian heritage.

Telastyn

the dome has been torn down for like a year now.

user41796

@durron597 Not sure you can even get into Lambeau without serious connections.

durron597

9:01 PM

@GlenH7 Right. That's why they're insane. Guaranteed frostbite day

user55340

Waiting list position for season tickets can be willed to heirs.

user55340

NFL season ticket waiting lists

The National Football League has enjoyed success in selling out many of their venues from season ticket sales alone. Out of 32 teams in the league, 24 claim to have waiting lists from under 1,000 people to over 150,000. For some fans, this means a wait not just of years, but decades. This is due mostly to the NFL's short window of play; there are only eight regular-season home games, forcing the most devoted fans into a desperate and sometimes costly search for a limited number of events. Since 1973, the waiting lists have also had the by-product of preventing any home games of certain teams from...

user55340

Look at that image.

user55340

This would mean a name placed on the list today would be eligible for season tickets in 955 years

user114359

I was thinking about starting a programming challenge over on the code golf SE to simulate a powerball type lottery. I describe the lottery like this: given an infinite number of drawings, it is a net loss. It is only relevant because if by chance you win, you will have more money than you need in a human lifetime.

user114359

9:08 PM

clearly the bigger the jackpot, the more people are tempted to play, which affects the jackpot as well as the potential earnings (bigger chance of a split pot)

user114359

I was thinking of a GA type program that tries to find the optimal amount to wager each time (abstaining not being an option) to maximize profit over billions of trials.

user114359

or, minimize loss

durron597

-EV is -EV is -EV

if your -EV on one $1 lottery ticket is -0.05, then you will expect to lose -0.10 on two lottery tickets

> Some retailers have low profit margins, but high volume. The old joke is told about a retailer who sold products below cost, losing a little money on each sale. “I make it up on volume,” the retailer said.

user114359

maybe the approach is given a large but finite number of wagers, how many members of the population can expect to make a net gain? Is there an optimal way to play without sinking too much money into it?

user114359

Maybe this is a terrible idea for a programming challenge. I just wanted to see if GA could find a way to succeed or at least minimize failure

user114359

9:21 PM

GA v. randomness

enderland

However sometimes the EV of a $1 lottery ticket can be greater than $1 ;)

durron597

@Snowman How many members can EXPECT to make a net gain? Zero. How many members WILL likely make a netgain? P(Win) * Population

user41796

Y'all take the fun out of entertainment... :-)

user55340

You are thinking of some iterative prisoners dilemma for a lottery?

durron597

@GlenH7 I'm not the one who put an open air football stadium in one of the coldest places in the continental US

user55340

9:24 PM

@durron597 they were all open air then. Gb just decided to keep it that way rather than being wimps.

user55340

And I think we can all agree that the Bears still suck.

enderland

newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/07/…

durron597

@MichaelT wut r u talking about jay cutler first ballot hall of fame amirite

user55340

@enderland how about a game of blackjack?

user114359

Not that simple: as the jackpot increases, some people are willing to increase wagers which affects the probability of winning

user114359

9:27 PM

anyway time for the drive home, I'll check back later.

durron597

The problem is, the jackpot gets divided amongst all winners. e.g. the three winners who have to split the recent Powerball jackpot

user55340

@durron597 as much as a ~~four~~ former qb would disagree, one person does not make a team.

user55340

@durron597 news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/…

durron597

@MichaelT Well, the bears do have Matt Forte too. But it's way more fun to make fun of Cutler, since Forte is actually good at the game

Duga

@RenaissanceProgrammer Using Chrome and installing Chromecast solves it for you. The question is more aimed at programmers who want to remove the problem for their end-users. — mahemoff 19 secs ago

rolfl

10:04 PM

@durron597 - FYI, I put the Java8 stream processor in to a tight loop, and timed each iteration..... (including closing and reopening the input file....):

LongSummaryStatistics{count=1000, sum=376000, min=376, average=376.000000, max=376}
DoubleSummaryStatistics{count=1000, sum=6784.560368, min=5.611086, average=6.784560, max=237.637652}

times in milliseconds (Doubles), and count of winning hands in longs)

user41796

@rolfl I think you got sniped hard there....

rolfl

@GlenH7 I confess, I am lost on that statement.... sniped?

user41796

I first saw this problem on the Google Labs Aptitude Test. A professor and I filled a blackboard without getting anywhere. Have fun.

rolfl

I see, I like that

user41796

Yep. Hence my statement of your being sniped hard by that java problem.

rolfl

10:13 PM

Yes, in a sense, I did, but no truck has run me down, yet.

user41796

Yes, please look both ways before crossing the street

rolfl

I did get to learn some new tricks in Java 8, and figured out some of the warmup / performance issues.

durron597

@rolfl Are you saying that yours is slow because of a cold VM?

rolfl

I am saying mine is much faster on subsequent runs.

durron597

@rolfl Is it as fast as mine?

rolfl

10:14 PM

yorus would likely be too, but I have not measured how much.

I do like some Java8 shortcuts...:

    System.out.println(LongStream.of(results).summaryStatistics());
    System.out.println(LongStream.of(times).mapToDouble(t -> t / 1000000.0).summaryStatistics());

results is the 376 winning hands, and times is the time-in-nanos measured by System.nanoTime() before and after calling the system

durron597

Again, I'm waiting for the 1 year mark to let bugs work themselves out

rolfl

The arrays are 1000 members long.

Did you pick up that ClassLoader.getResourceAsStream() produces a much faster stream than FileInputStream?

durron597

@rolfl Mine uses the former but I didn't know that. Why?

rolfl

I know, I was sniped ;-) Your code was so much faster than mine, and mine suddenly went 4 times faster when I used the resource mechanism

I have not found a reference as to why it is that much faster..... I think it's a native-instead-of-Java code thing

Robert Harvey

@rolfl: Does your Euler54 code take into account things like the 3-ranking carries more card weight than the pair in a full house?

rolfl

10:20 PM

yes

Robert Harvey

How were you able to get it to sort that way? Is it some Linq magic?

user55340

@RobertHarvey that's the bug in my perl version.

rolfl

7777 6666 5555 4444 3333 2222 1111 0000
   |    |    |    |    |    |    |     --> Lowest ranked card
   |    |    |    |    |    |     -------> Second Lowest card
   |    |    |    |    |     ------------> Third lowest card
   |    |    |    |     -----------------> Second highest card
   |    |    |     ----------------------> Highest ranked card
   |    |     ---------------------------> SMALLSAME - Rank of low pair, if any
   |     --------------------------------> LARGESAME - Rank of largest group, if any

durron597

@RobertHarvey mine does too fwiw

rolfl

I shift the rank in to nibble 6 of the long score, which will be the rank of the 3-card group

durron597

10:22 PM

		private void handleTrips(Value current) {
			trips = true;
			demotePrimary();
		}

Robert Harvey

Ah, OK. I overlooked the SMALLSAME and LARGESAME ranks.

durron597

at that point in the algorithm, primary will be the pair if the pair was detected first (eg KK333)

for KKK33, primary will be null so it's irrelevant

rolfl

A trick that took me a while to figure out, but is likely obvious to many, and will be obvious now to the rest, is that you cannot have a flush if you have a pair, triple, or quad of a kind

durron597

@rolfl Yes, mine takes advantage of that. It checks for straight/flush first and doesn't do the pairs check if it's a straight or a flush

rolfl

Also, you don't need to know what the flush is in, just that it exists... so you don't need to know the actual suit, but just that all the suits are the same.

It is enough to count the distinct characters in the suit position, and see if the count is 1.

Robert Harvey

10:25 PM

[makes a note of that]

You can see how much I play poker, though I am familiar with the rules.

durron597

Mine checks that card0 = card1, card1=card2, card2=card3, card3=card4 (for suits)

rolfl

Mine does.... wait for it .... ;-) :

hand.stream().mapToInt(c -> c.charAt(1)).distinct().count() == 1

No, that's in the question....

durron597

See, i find that far more confusing than this:

		for(int i = 0; i < 4; i++) {
			if(cardSuit(i) != cardSuit(i+1)) {
				return false;
			}
		}
		return true;

ok the revised one isn't that bad.

rolfl

Noone has answered the question, perhaps I can update the code.... hmmmm.

durron597

I should go answer it with a "your program's methods are way too long" answer.

maybe if I weren't a code review vampire i would :)

@rolfl Is diff a keyword in java8?

rolfl

10:32 PM

nope.

enderland

@durron597 out of curiosity what level person are you guys looking for?

durron597

@enderland Junior

enderland

hmmmmm

durron597

We don't have a lot of money yet :-P

enderland

lol

durron597

10:35 PM

But the job is stable, I have more job security here in this 5 man company than I did at Employer^, where my department was more than 20 people

The partners have work that produces money, and as long as we produce money (it doesn't have to be a net gain against salaries, it just has to look like it WILL be), they believe in the project so it's quite safe

enderland

I am definitely... intrigued

Can't relocate though :(

durron597

@enderland We actually have a few applicants we like now (this wasn't the case a few weeks ago) which makes a telecommuting applicant a lot less appealing.

enderland

Ah, well, that's good - helps me not have to ponder things... :)

Telecommuting at a new company would be difficult

durron597

But I'll let you know in the second week of March or so if this round of applicants proves inadequate

enderland

Ha, sounds good ;)

durron597

10:40 PM

@enderland Last year we had even less money and we tried to hire an unpaid intern. After half a dozen on-site interviews, we hired... no one.

enderland

medium.com/ted-fellows/…

Simon André Forsberg

Oh, this is just brilliant....

I was working on @Duga, and I used a Python script to extract the comment ids for all the comments in @Duga's Playground. Then I made API requests to extract the comments themselves, but almost all of the comments that recommended Programmers have been deleted, so I couldn't extract those comments.

durron597

@SimonAndréForsberg Haha

Simon André Forsberg

there is of course the chat itself, but extracting the comments from there is not as straight-forward.

user41796

I don't know if mods can pull comments directly or not

user41796

10:52 PM

And we have at least one or two SO mods we can easily ping for that

Simon André Forsberg

If they could, I could give them a bunch of comment_ids which I am interested in.

@durron597 the joke's on you, this means that the @Duga update will be delayed.

Robert Harvey

We can only pull comments one post at a time.

enderland

Deleted comments would be a nightmare too

user41796

@RobertHarvey Blech. That's effort

Robert Harvey

Duga should log all of the comments it identifies.

Simon André Forsberg

10:57 PM

@RobertHarvey I have the comment ids, I'd just want the comment markdown

Robert Harvey

Are you using the Stack Exchange API?

Simon André Forsberg

yes

Robert Harvey

What is your query string for new comments?

What does the URL look like?

Simon André Forsberg

URL url = new URL("https://api.stackexchange.com/2.2/comments?page=1&pagesize=100&fromdate=" + fromDate +
"&order=desc&sort=creation&site=" + site + "&filter=" + filter + "&key=" + apiKey);

final String filter = "!1zSk*x-OuqVk2k.(bS0NB";

Robert Harvey

And you do this once a minute, or something like that?

Simon André Forsberg

10:59 PM

once a minute, yes

Robert Harvey

Ok. Maybe you can give me a query string that contains some deleted comments, and I can run it on the API with my login?

Simon André Forsberg

sure

oh crap, now I have

{"error_id":502,"error_message":"too many requests from this IP, more requests available in 77716 seconds","error_name":"throttle_violation"}

Robert Harvey

Oops.

Hmm, apparently it would use a StackApps login? I wouldn't have any more mojo than you do, if that's the case.

Simon André Forsberg

I believe this is a correct query though: api.stackexchange.com/2.2/comments/…

oh, wwait a minute. I forgot to add my stack API key of course

yes, I think it uses some StackApps API key mumbo-jumbo

I know there's a way to authenticate users using the API, but I have no idea how that works

Robert Harvey

Looks like the key is associated with an app (in this case, Duga).

Oh, well.

Simon André Forsberg

11:04 PM

hmm...

I guess I'll have to use HTML code to extract some "real" comments for some testing

Robert Harvey

It was worth a try anyway. The diamond gives me more limited power than most folks realize.

enderland

Most people in this room can sympathize, though? :)

user55340

Robert is mad at/with power.

Robert Harvey

Just mad at.

user55340

(I am only italics, not blue)

Robert Harvey

11:06 PM

I haven't MODABUSED in at least an hour.

user41796

@RobertHarvey slacker

user55340

on so, with 10k rep, could hit the "four close" list rather hard.

user55340

(Fixing a dumb npe of my own creation)

Simon André Forsberg

I'll just rewrite my Python script a bit I guess and see what I can do

@RobertHarvey wouldn't surprise me that even if we would try to authenticate you using @Duga's StackApp, you still wouldn't be able to see deleted comments with the Stack API.

Robert Harvey

Very likely not.

durron597

11:11 PM

@RobertHarvey Speaking of looking for work, have you looked at these? stackexchange.com/work-here

You might have a leg up on other applicants ;)

Robert Harvey

@durron597 Let me get back to you on that.

user55340

Super diamond!

Robert Harvey

Double D's.