The Whiteboard

Robert Harvey

00:11

@psr Better than wearing bell bottoms I guess.

And mutton chops.

Jimmy Hoffa

04:54

@RobertHarvey I suspect you speak with experience on this topic

MetaFight

13:27

I've got a question about how to manage the configuration of PLCs (Programmable Logic Controllers). Would that be a good fit on Engineering.SE?

darn, GlenH7 isn't here.

wait... he's not the user I was thinking of.

ratchet freak

not electronics?

MetaFight

yeah, I just found them.

it seems to fit better there.

ratchet freak

I think there is some overlap there but I'm no sure on the specifics

Duga

13:56

On Programmers: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/205646/… — Ciro Santilli 1 min ago

user55340

14:16

Dirty plumber porn: two pipes, one solenoid.

user55340

(Both urinal sensors in the restroom are hooked up to the same solenoid. Walk away from one, they both flush)

user41796

@MetaFight potentially on topic, pun intended.

user41796

And you may have been thinking of @whatsisname - he's our room regular with the most amount of device experience afaik.

enderland

14:31

enderland stews

durron597

@enderland What kind of stew? Jambalaya?

user41796

15:12

@enderland stews can be quite tasty if given enough time to properly cook

enderland

hey I coudl answer that state question

0

A: How to handle initial state in an event-driven architecture?

You can have an initialize event which sets states appropriately upon load/startup. This can be desirable for simple systems, however for more complicated systems with multiple physical components as you run the same risk as not initializing at all - if a "brake on" event is missed or lost along ...

durron597

15:39

goddamnit

Jimmy Hoffa

16:50

Start by learning about function composition ((a -> b) -> (b -> c) -> (a -> c)), then think about how to normalize your functions inputs and outputs so you have a bunch of a -> a functions, and realize how compositions of these functions end up able to fit into the same uses as the individual single-functions. This is how you make multiple queries (a -> a) behave and work identically to a single query (a -> a) — Jimmy Hoffa 14 secs ago

...because I didn't want to write a full answer...

enderland

You monster

Jimmy Hoffa

It would require me to go through all the details of composition, and then delve into how you can make the container failable and then how to embed the logic into the composition to create a monad and bla I just don't want to write all that up right now

Maybe later if I get bored of office nonsense that is keeping me mildly entertained

durron597

@JimmyHoffa But think of the ~~reputation~~ children!

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 I hit 10k and just started giving any rep over that away...10k is all I want. I've never been one to be greedy, when I have enough of something I don't want for more...

@durron597 I think it's with three dashes before and after ~~something~~

durron597

@JimmyHoffa thanks

Of course the joke loses whatever punch it had when I have to ask how to do strikethrough :)

Jimmy Hoffa

16:57

(though I am a little disappointed that giving all that rep away has eroded my rep/answer ratio which was tracking right with @MichaelT until I started blowing rep for kicks)

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Well I think we all know a sock puppet who ~~resents~~ appreciates it.

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 meh, his answers were good, and he helps out with CVs and such.

durron597

@JimmyHoffa :) I know, that was a joke

Jimmy Hoffa

I wonder when I crossed 10k... I don't remember anymore

enderland

programmers.stackexchange.com/reputation

you can find out!

Jimmy Hoffa

17:03

if I add back my bounty rep I have 85 rep per answer

enderland

Nice. I've always felt rep/answer is a better metric

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT has 84 nyah nyah!

(he's given up way more rep in downvotes than I have though so.... uhh, shutup.)

11.4k downvotes O_O

I've got 563 :o

enderland

heh mine is about 125/answer :P

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland low sample size :P

enderland

shuuush1 :)

durron597

17:10

What's your median

omg. Gmail has a button for "view pull request" for github emails

like "track package" except github

enderland

lol really?

durron597

enderland

i love gmail

user55340

@JimmyHoffa only 3k of my down votes are on undeleted posts.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT so that gives you 91 :/

durron597

17:25

Again, what's the median

enderland

probably 0

durron597

i suspect you both have a much higher average than median

from outlier 100+ vote answers

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 very difficult to calculate, would have to write a really complex query on data.SE to figure out how much rep each answer is worth and sort them etc

user55340

@JimmyHoffa go to network profile, reputation tab.

Jimmy Hoffa

because downvotes are -2 and upvotes are +10 so you can't just take the answer score and presume rep from that without counting out the individual up and down votes

user55340

17:26

stackexchange.com/users/171169/jimmy-hoffa?tab=reputation

durron597

ok so if you have 85 per answer but you subtract 955 from this what happens to your average

Jimmy Hoffa

so mar14 of last year I got 10k

durron597

Actually I suppose that's not a fair subtraction because of the rep cap

Wow. Three "great answer" badges awarded here. Bikeshed IMO

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 pfah nobody mentioned the SKI boolean logical or that implements or with nothing but function application

durron597

@JimmyHoffa wait, isn't that what Jorg's answer is?

Jimmy Hoffa

17:39

ah if anybody would answer with that it would be Jorg... I didn't look that closely

@durron597 yeah his ecmascript example uses the concept - nothing but function application, no need for predicates.

in SKI combinators it's KI for true and K for false, which is precisely the two functions he defined there called tru and fls

durron597

right

Jimmy Hoffa

18:09

1

A: Bridging the gap between abstract machines and computer achitectures?

The main relationship is that you can simulate the theoretical construct in the physical one. The fact that the physical one is capable of all things the theoretical one is gives rise to the ability for theoretical testing and analysis of the theoretical machine to be recognized as implementabl...

durron597

18:22

Computer Science beta self-evaluation ends tomorrow

ratchet freak

@GlenH7 no I meant rime

as in ice that occurs in cold misty mornings

user41796

@ratchetfreak I didn't know of that term. My apologies. Feel free to rollback if you haven't already. I may go link in a dictionary definition.

ratchet freak

meh I just added frost then which is clearer

user41796

You engineers with your fancy terms... :-)

2

ratchet freak

It's not that fancy, or I'm just used to hearing warnings about "rijm plekken" on the morning weather

Jimmy Hoffa

18:32

@ratchetfreak rhyme puking? Sounds like an inner city problem

ratchet freak

no it's dutch for ice spots

Jimmy Hoffa

@ratchetfreak you sure it's not just urban for the unfortunate incidents that occur when you've had too much to drink and try to do slam poetry?

ratchet freak

nope I'm sure

rolfl

Rime is real.... just reading up on it....

Hard rime

Hard rime is a white ice that forms when the water droplets in fog freeze to the outer surfaces of objects. It is often seen on trees atop mountains and ridges in winter, when low-hanging clouds cause freezing fog. This fog freezes to the windward (wind-facing) side of tree branches, buildings, or any other solid objects, usually with high wind velocities and air temperatures between −2 and −8 °C (28.4 and 17.6 °F). Hard rime formations are difficult to shake off; they have a comb-like appearance, unlike soft rime, which looks feathery or spiky, or clear ice, which looks homogeneous and transparent...

ratchet freak

besides that, Do you want to hear something funny?

user41796

18:39

@ratchetfreak always

ratchet freak

apparently the movie fifty shades of grey is children allowed

in Belgium

user41796

O_O

user41796

Either the movie is toned down way more than I thought, or Belgium is a lot more permissive than I thought.

user41796

Or both

ratchet freak

it's the second

user41796

18:40

Yowsers.

ratchet freak

the Belgian rating system stems from the 1920's

rolfl

@ratchet ... 'Anastasia' is a university student, I am > 40... she is a girl/kid, so why can't kids watch it ;-)?

Funny how as you get older your 'baseline' for measuring people's age changes..... half-my age, my age, my daughter's age, etc.

durron597

@rolfl n/2 + 7 is the rule about how young you can date

so if you're 40 you can date 27 without it being weird.

enderland

no pretty sure that's still weird

durron597

@enderland says the newlywed ;)

ratchet freak

18:44

Also Welp is a horror film and also got the children allowed flag

rolfl

Interesting math, been married now for.... 14 years, and my wife was 27 when I met her ;-)

so, I guess I just squeaked in

enderland

you were 40 when you married her?

rolfl

You did not untangle that statement correctly

enderland

"I just squeaked in" is hard to untangle :P to me it means " I just met that metric and my wife was 27"

rolfl

Well, I have aged at the same rate as my wife... pretty much.

and been married for 14 years...

enderland

18:48

Haha

durron597

bottom line, a 40yo dating a 27yo is not nearly as weird as a 30yo dating a 17yo even though the age difference is the same

rolfl

(and I did have smileys all over).

MetaFight

What a 33 year old and a 19 year old?

ugh. I have a friend with that question.

durron597

but i don't think a 30yo dating a 22yo is unreasonable

rolfl

To set it straight, my wife and I met when we were 27 and 28 respectively.

durron597

18:49

the formula works

user41796

@rolfl Amazing how she hasn't aged a day, right?

user41796

The next couple of years are going to get downright creepy though; just saying.

rolfl

Like a good bottle of port.... improves each day.

durron597

n/2 + 7 = n -> n = 14, a 14 dating a 14 is fine but a 16 dating a 14 is weird, so even those ages fit

ratchet freak

@durron597 so a 12 dating a 12 is weird?

rolfl

18:51

Yes

durron597

a 12 dating anyone is weird

rolfl

12 is too young to date.

durron597

exactly

rolfl

The other extreme is more interesting....

so a 100 year old and a 57 year old....

durron597

nearly 100% of women are in menopause at 57... at that age does it really matter? if it makes them happy?

rolfl

18:54

Hugh Heffner @88 and Crystal Harris @28

Shudder.

durron597

@rolfl Exactly, but if Hugh's "babe" was 51? Would you still shudder? I wouldn't.

enderland

enderland feels young

user41796

How about J. Howard Marshall (89) and Anna Nicole Smith (26)?

enderland

@Ampt where are you

durron597

@GlenH7 Anna Nicole Smith is not 26 and not alive. How long ago was that?

rolfl

18:59

1993?

enderland

not helping @durron597 lol

user41796

1996, I think. Let me go pull the article back up

user41796

> On June 27, 1994, twenty-six-year-old Smith and eighty-nine-year-old Marshall were married in Houston.

user41796

From here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anna_Nicole_Smith#Marriage

user41796

(no, I didn't want that to one-box)

durron597

19:00

Yeah, I was 11 in 1994. No wonder I never heard of him. Heh, he died in 1995

user41796

@durron597 Was one helluva scandal too. His kid(s) were furious

psr

Or William M. Cantrell and Maudie Celia Hopkins. Or am I dating myself?

user41796

@psr Only if you were around when they married...

psr

@GlenH7 When I googled "civil war brides" it hadn't occurred to me that anyone might be old enough to have witnessed such a marriage. But you'd only need to be 79, plus a few more to be old enough to remember it. Not that such marriages were likely well attended...

user41796

According to my SE profile, I could have been around then. Truthfully, I know a few who could have heard of the event in the news. I suspect it was somewhat commonplace though and not newsworthy if they ended up making a law to keep the widows from receiving the pension.

Ampt

19:14

@enderland ummm... On the toilet if you must know

psr

She lived until 2008. I like the idea of having the pension program going until then (though it didn't). Still paying a tiny cost of a war until 148 years later seems about right.

user41796

@Ampt In the context of the earlier conversation, that's just ... never mind.

psr

@Ampt I hope that was billable time.

2

enderland

@psr it was a long time, either way.... ?

Ampt

@psr I only use the bathroom on company time, duh.

In terms of work quality I'd say this is my most productive half hour of the day

enderland

19:15

gotta save money on TP

user41796

@psr I don't think that many (any?) societies have all that good of an idea of the long term costs of war.

Ampt

Ugh I read about that. Pretty sure the last thing the Middle East needs is more occupation, just saying

enderland

Britain only recently repayed the USA for WWII loans I think, and Germany only recently finished reparations

user41796

The psychological damage can last generations

user41796

And that damage ripples out into the society causing unexpected side effects impacting others who were otherwise never involved

Thomas Owens

19:23

Cucumber exists for the JVM now, apparently. Should I learn what the big deal is?

user41796

YES

user41796

NO

enderland

let-tuce go! lettuce go, can't hold it back anymore

user41796

Helpful, right?

Thomas Owens

The docs on the Cucumber site kind of...suck.

user41796

19:28

That said, I'm not a huge fan of BDD. The impression I get is that BAs are trying to push their job onto develoers which isn't going to go over all that well in most cases.

Ampt

can I get the TL;DR for Cucumber?

Why are we putting plants in our coffee

user41796

I don't want to sound like I'm saying BDD has no value, but I think it's become it's own cult at this point.

user41796

@Ampt cukes.info

user41796

@Ampt Behaviour Driven Development with elegance and joy

Ampt

oh god... behaviour driven development

user41796

19:29

aka, scripted BDD rules

enderland

basically testing without writing code and writing words to do the test

Ampt

bringing ambiguity to strongly typed languages near you!

enderland

or weakly typed ones, like python

wait was that redundant?

Thomas Owens

I'm more interested in requirements. I want to move toward some level of formal specification. Maybe not the full-blown mathematical proofs and stuff, though.

Formal specification without formal verification and formal development.

Formal methods lite.

user41796

Unified Process / Rational Unified Process would likely be more fruitful for you then

Thomas Owens

19:34

How so?

I fail to see a connection between formal methods and RUP.

user41796

Several of the artifacts that can be generated through RUP are more exacting (formal) requirements and design documents than lighter weight methodologies

psr

@GlenH7 Can I make a fortune promoting Developer Driven Development, or is that already a thing? How about, "In DDD, instead of giving developers a process, you give them the requirements that the process must fulfill."

durron597

@GlenH7 Working by myself honestly in some ways has been really bad for me. Whenever I read about development methodologies (like RUP) I feel like it's all a complete waste of time

even though I'm sure it's not if I were on a team

user41796

@durron597 RUP is not Agile

durron597

@GlenH7 Well that's step 1 then :)

user41796

19:39

And some in the Agile community would explode in a blather over any insinuation that it was

durron597

@GlenH7 ok lets step back a minute then

I feel like Agile is a learning-by-doing process

I took 4 years off from programming and I've had this job for 2

And I've been the sole developer for the entire time

user41796

Agile is more about "don't worry about documentation, just talk to the business and build what they want." And "iterate fast so you don't get lost in the weeds."

Ampt

ugh are we back to talking about agile?

rolfl

extreme meta reprogramming?

durron597

We actually have a few decent applicants now and we will probably hire one of them in the next few months. I want to prepare my code and my development environment to be able to receive new blood gracefully

user41796

19:42

No, I was trying to suggest UP as an alternative to BDD for those more interested in making specifications a bit more formal without getting too far into waterfall territory

Ampt

no e in XTREME!!1!!1!!11!11

psr

@durron597 You can skip a lot of stuff if you don't need to coordinate with other people.

durron597

/me is inclined to make this a real progs question, now that I think about it, except the above question is too broad

user41796

@durron597 search a bit, I think we've already got a question or two on increasing the size of the team

durron597

@psr I know, and I do skip a lot of stuff. I want to prepare myself and the repository to be ready to accept a new person/ people

enderland

19:43

You can also end up in a crappy position if you are the only developer

durron597

2

Q: Add a second developer to the team

In my company, I'm the only developer, but we plan on expanding the team by hiring a second programmer. I know there are a lot of implications to that (especially around source control). I've Googled a lot, but haven't found a good tutorial/article on how to grow the team from one to many develop...

psr

@Ampt XTRXMX?

Ampt

@psr now you're talking my language!

rolfl

Missing italics.... XTRXMX

Ampt

<blink><h1>***XTRXMX***</h1></blink>

rolfl

19:49

Just saw you outside there, snowman... ;)

Ampt

no no no, I kill the snowmen

I'm keep thing world safe, one pound of salt at a time

user41796

@Ampt Calm down Calvin

user41796

Wait, you probably don't get that reference, do you. <sighs>

Ampt

we can contain the snowmen by plowing large areas off, to keep them from growing in numbers and converging

@GlenH7 that's a joke right? I read every comic, ever

I'm not 12 there you old fart

user41796

@Ampt Thank goodness. I was worried. He did retire the strip in 95

Ampt

19:52

yeah it's too bad no one ever put those things on something permanent. maybe like paper

they could use ink to illustrate them so that generations to come could enjoy them

gah... what a shame

enderland

Alas

user114359

Why does everyone hate me?

Ampt

look, it's just a job man

rolfl

Not you, just your composition

Ampt

nothing personal

rolfl

19:53

I hate your guts,

user114359

hah

user41796

user114359

although I did unload 100 lbs of salt on my driveway last weekend.

user114359

despite my internet name, winter is such a drag.

enderland

I love snow

I hate snow on the roads

Ampt

19:55

all roads should have radiant heating

user41796

user114359

My street is about 6 feet narrower because of all the snow plowed up on the edges, and the snowbanks on either side of my driveway are now taller than the top of the snowblower.

enderland

@Ampt oh yeah

user55340

@Snowman did you see the bit about snow blowing problem?

rolfl

In places on the sides of my driveway I have shoveled it to about 5 feet.... the kids slide down it.

user114359

19:58

@MichaelT I don't think so

user55340

www3.cs.stonybrook.edu/~bender/newpub/…

Ampt

@rolfl haha that reminds me of one of my favorite childhood memories. my house is built on a hill and my driveway is right next to the top of the hill, so he would always blow all the snow to that side and we would build a giant snow hill hahahaha

user114359

someone actually researched that algorithm

rolfl

Yeah, we have it set up such that my house is on a side-slope (driveway perpendicular to the slope), and we shovel all the snow from the drive to one spot on the downhill side. The kids can toboggan from there, across the lawn, over the 'hump' that my neighbour shovels on to the side of his driveway, then across his drive too. By this point the kids are actually on the street, going down the tarmac, which, if it's been ploughed, scratches the sleds, and gets them in trouble.

user55340

@Snowman it's either that or go outside and do it.

rolfl

20:04

I grew up in South Africa.... I often wish I grew up with more snow....

user55340

@rolfl met a guy at Tahoe from SA. Working a ski resort in California. When the season was over, he went to Chilie or NZ to work a ski resort there.

user55340

Hadn't seen Summer for years.

rolfl

Yeah, I love the snow too. Met my wife skiing in Austria. Was snow shoeing over the weekend, etc.

Me saying I hate the snowman is not true ;-)

I did build my first one when I was about 30 though

user55340

@rolfl so... You want to shovel my walk?

rolfl

I like the snow, not the work

user55340

20:08

user41796

@rolfl I don't mind the work if I know there will be enough for the kids to play

user55340

nypost.com/2014/03/04/…

rolfl

Hmmm.... seen recently... "old man & unicorn": i.sstatic.net/c25i8.jpg

Moving on

user114359

Here's another giant snowman. This one ate too many Twinkies: blog.newscom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/LARGEST_SNOWMAN.jpg

durron597

21:13

anyone find this interesting?

user41796

@durron597 isn't it Dear Leader and not Dear Reader :-D

enderland

@GlenH7 in a game I play, my alliance refers to me as "Dear Leader" which is amusing..

durron597

@GlenH7 I'm not writing a letter to myself...

Jimmy Hoffa

haha so we're "migrating to scrum" here, and yesterday I heard tell apparently our sprint just started, the teams are selected - and a manager planned everything and assigned it all and has scheduled zero meetings of the so called "teams", so scrum is apparently, a manager assigning everyone tickets and then waiting for the work to just be done. No scrum master, no conversations about the tickets, no standups... goodness people are willing to just call anything a duck if they want a duck

Ampt

@enderland yeah, but do you have a butthole?

Jimmy Hoffa

21:16

self-delusion has to be the most widely used skill in corporate america

durron597

@JimmyHoffa does it quack?

Ampt

well if they want tickets closed you could always just close them

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 it makes a sound, and quacking is just a sound so it's the same thing right?

Ampt

if they ask where the work is, ask where your daily standups and backlog is

Pyraminx

I'm back

Jimmy Hoffa

21:18

@Ampt oh I fully intend to ignore any of this until someone brings me into some kind of planning meeting to at least talk with me about the idea of doing work. I made a rule long ago that I ignore all work I get zero input on, it ensures I can't be held accountable for it- as soon as you feign responsibility the monkey climbs on your back and you're up a creek.

Pyraminx

(from a few days)

Ampt

meta comment: I will never not jump at the bing noise this chat has. I don't know who thought it was a great fit but it always makes me jump like something just broke.

enderland

@Ampt ... what?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt so don't keep your headphones on?

Ampt

the bonk noise!

BONK!

Pyraminx

21:19

@Ampt I always turn my sound down

enderland

turn it off? :)

Ampt

YOU'VE BEEN MENTIONED

BONK

user55340

@JimmyHoffa tan the monkey skin and make a paddle. Go down that creek and make for the open sea.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 I thought it was Deer Leader, every herd needs a leader, and that's who you should be addressing things to.

durron597

@JimmyHoffa Sounds like you're in a healthy working environment

Pyraminx

21:20

The person who put that sound should BONK themselves on the head

Ampt

@enderland i like being notified but I think the sound is atrocious

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT have you tried to fight a monkey recently? Good luck. Those things will jack you up.

enderland

@Ampt I'm a "notification zomg must click tab and see" type of person

user55340

durron597

@JimmyHoffa You and @enderland should both quit and start a company that doesn't suck

Jimmy Hoffa

21:21

@MichaelT my wife has scars on her eyelids from one of those right there.

will mess you up.

Ampt

ugh think of all the paperwork that would take @durron597

user55340

durron597

@Ampt True. Forget it, bad idea.

Ampt

unfortunately neither of those two is delusional enough to think that companies spring out of no where and exist solely to pay people money to come in 9-5 and do what they love

Pyraminx

@enderland me too

Ampt

21:22

the people who always say "Do what you love and you'll never work a day in your life" fail to realize that they just so happen to love running a business

user55340

Close encounters of the third kind:

user55340

> One early concept for interpreting the aliens included an orangutan on roller skates. The idea did not work, because the orangutan became very frightened the second its roller skates touched the ground, and it kept grabbing onto the arms of its caretaker.

durron597

54

A: Do I really need to stay the full 2 weeks?

I agree with Ollie; however, I'll provide you with a story. I've been at this for quite a bit longer than you. A couple years ago I decided I needed a change of pace after having worked with startups for many years and signed on with a pretty large company in financial services. They had 1,000...

user55340

@JimmyHoffa think about that. An orangutan on roller skates in a silver jump suit.

Pyraminx

I'm always off topic, amn't I?

enderland

21:25

@durron597 hey man I like having 3.5 managers

Pyraminx

.5?

user55340

Diagonal report? Or a "project manager"?

Ampt

@durron597 yeah, funny thing about that story, he made that product on company time, regardless of what equipment he used, meaning that that company has every legal right to his software. He got lucky, end of story.

now you're out a job and the company you used to work for owns the thing you've been working on for 40 hours per week for the last 6 months

durron597

@Ampt Depends on his employment agreement

Ampt

pretty sure the fact that their paying you for your time makes everything you do during that time their property

I doubt you could weasel your way out of that one

durron597

21:28

@Ampt Again, depends on the contract

He fulfilled his all his contract obligations on time and got a raise to show for it.

Ampt

I doubt that his contract is based on specific tasks being done; that would require many, many new contracts as new work came in

he likely was salaried and was expected to work 40 hours per week for the company, doing whatever the company wanted

durron597

He did everything the company wanted.

Ampt

company still owns him for 40 hours per week

any IP that comes out of those belongs to the company

durron597

@Ampt ... depending on the contract.

Most contracts have specific wording for IP

Ampt

yes, if he's got some super rare, awesome contract that allows him to do whatever the hell he wants at work, sure, it'll work. I almost guarantee that he didn't have one of those

it sounds like the company just didn't care or want it

user41796

21:32

That bit of employment law is going to vary by state and by the IP agreement the employee signed

user41796

generally, a company owns anything an employee does while on company time. However, that doesn't always hold.

user41796

and / or the company may not care to pursue it anyway

durron597

@Ampt I'm not saying you're always wrong or even usually wrong. Just saying that it's often enough to say "we don't know"

Jimmy Hoffa

@durron597 most of them also declare all your IP work is theirs not just during business hours because then if you do work from noon to 8 on any days for any given reason, you just did work during a bunch of non-business hours. Or if you put in a 60 hour week, are those extra 20 hours work they'll let you just keep rights to? Hell no.

user41796

given that they supposedly paid him for nothing for 6 months, they likely didn't care about the app

Jimmy Hoffa

21:34

Most employment contracts in our industry declare all work you do is theres, and people who do moonlighting have to OK it with the company and are best off getting a simple written exemption for the work.

Ampt

@durron597 I would argue it's such a small percentage of contracts that it's not worth saying "we don't know"

user41796

@JimmyHoffa not anymore. Those super inclusive agreements have been thoroughly shredded in several locales

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 that's a stretch. They've been shredded in CA, where else are you certain of?

user55340

Btw, told my father about that Chem blog with things I don't want to be near as a category. 70% pure HOOH? How about some HOOOH?

user55340

He was laughing and cringing.

user41796

21:35

@MichaelT your dad got to play with all the crazy sh*t

Jimmy Hoffa

They're still in just about all contracts, and the majority of the country is considerably less pro-tech, pro-employee than CA

user55340

@GlenH7 blog post the other night I linked.

enderland

course a company which is 100% fine paying people to be butt-in-seat for 6 months is probably less likely tocare about the contract their employees sign (if any)

user41796

@MichaelT yep, I remember. I thought your dad also maintained the chemical stores too

Jimmy Hoffa

@enderland likely too incompetent to notice things that may go on right under their noses. That's a vast portion of corporate america.

durron597

21:36

@enderland Excuse me, he wrote an app for the QA department

user55340

My father took a day off when the demo (not demolition- demonstrate) lab made flash cotton and left it in the halls to dry.

user41796

@MichaelT "Not on my shift!"

user55340

pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_i_wont_work_with

user55340

pipeline.corante.com/archives/things_im_glad_i_dont_do

rolfl

You are right that it is all related to good programmer practice and structure, but this is Code Review, which requires actual lines of code that work, and do things, that are inside your program files. For more general programming problems consider Stack Overflow, and for other non-specific problems that are general to other programmers too, consider Programmers.se — rolfl ♦ 18 secs ago

Pretending to be Duga <------

Would that question be on-topic here on Programmers?

user55340

21:39

0th glance looks fine.

durron597

I think SO > P.SE for that question

user41796

I'm sorry, but I consider it as a code related topic when I look at it from a programming principles perspective. I don't want to repeat code (DRY) and I don't want to do something that is not obvious to other developers (POLS). It's all about code design, architecture and dependency. Also, I can consider it a sort of "Higher-level architecture and design of software systems" as in on-topic criteria. — natenho 24 mins ago

user41796

^^^ Why do people argue with high rep users (who also happen to be mods)?

Jimmy Hoffa

@rolfl looks good to me sans a little of the wording ("is there any other possible solution?" <-- poll). durron may be right though about SO being that it's specifically about techniques Eclipse is capable of working with

psr

@durron597 I'm pretty sure that having the clues be symmetric is a necessary but not sufficient condition for the answer to be symmetric.

rolfl

21:41

It's closed on CR, and I could possibly migrate it. By default I don't migrate thoug,....

but, if you said "looks good", I would.... ;-)

I am happy for it to stay where it is, and get auto-deleted in 9 days

user55340

That looks good too.

durron597

@psr I'd be interested in a proof of that. I think if the answer is unique then that answer must be symmetric

user55340

About which axis?

durron597

I think the statement "if the clues are symmetric and an answer exists, then there exists a symmetric answer" is definitely true

I agree there is doubt for "if the clues are symmetric and an answer exists, then all answers are symmetric" (but it could still be true)

@MichaelT I think it's true for both horiz/vert symmetry AND diagonal symmetry

user55340

@GlenH7 as to old chem- things like washing your hands in benzene. Now they evacuate and get hazmat if you spill 10g.

user55340

21:49

2x2. Top: 2 1; side: 2 1?

durron597

@MichaelT that answer is diagonally symmetric...

user55340

Yes. Thus question of what axis.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT who says any axis must be straight?

user55340

@GlenH7 oh, there was also the solid Ag beaker for HF.

user41796

@MichaelT I shuddered at the thought

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