The Whiteboard

user41796

00:30

@RobertHarvey You don't know the half of it. It's funny we're talking about bus tolerance because a kind-of important project I'm working is hinged around one guy being able to explain to his team how a particular Access DB works so they can tear it apart. Of course, I'm reliant upon whatever they can produce. On another project, we just injected a whole new technology along with a radical change on how we're processing things. Let's not talk about when those are due. Joy!

Jimmy Hoffa

00:52

I can't do it. I'm going with design option #1 and #2 -> I'll make a retriever instead of a repo, it will allow me to avoid breaking the Law of Demeter on reads of the model. The update code will still live just in the messages. Pondering implementing a deep clone on each entity in the model so the reads can call Clone() and always return new instances so no two readers have access to the same object and none can access the internal model instance directly other than the repo and update messages

the "retriever" will just be a read-only repo

user55340

02:33

Hey! Its my old factually advisor's notes in a question:

user55340

0

Q: Readers Writers algorithm help - starvation and no starvation

I found this link, as an explanation of r/w problem - http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~bart/537/lecturenotes/s7.html But, i'm having problems realizing is there any starvation present here and why? Also, if there is, what should be changed? I would also appreciate help with confirming the answers on t...

user55340

I took that class!

Stack Exchange

15:49

Ars Technica » Stack Exchange: Can software be protected from piracy?

posted on March 15, 2014 by Stack Exchange

It's either easy to use or easy to protect; it can't be both. Right?

Shahar

17:39

Hey guys

do you recommend any sql searching method

amon

20:16

Low quality question gets low quality answers. So far not surprising. But for some reason, 2/3 of them are in Spanish???

Robert Harvey

20:58

That's probably the same guy with two different user accounts.

I have a better one. User posts conceptual question on Stack Overflow. I answer it, but it only gets 5 views by the time I finish my answer. Since there's no language tag or code, I move it to Programmers, where it gets 89 views and 2 new answers, one of which the OP accepted. Now the OP is complaining on Meta that his question was migrated.

Robert Harvey

21:16

@WorldEngineer: If this guy insists on the migration getting reversed, I think we should delete the question from here.

Shahar

does anyone have any recommendation to creating a search engine for mysql?

well not a search "engine" I just need basic search

Robert Harvey

Use Lucene, unless you think you can get by with a bunch of LIKE clauses in SQL.

Shahar

Yeah that's what I had bookmarked

although I thought I can just do MATCH() AGAINST()

barlop

if you guys thought "hey, it'd be useful if I wrote a program like, procport.ext (I won't mention the extension as it's not stated what it's written in), but if you thought such a program would be useful, whereby if you pass it a process name e.g. procport chrome.exe then it tells you what port it is using. And if you pass it a port, then it tells you what process is listening on that port. procport 80 might return a web server. So, would any of you think that is useful and if so

would any of you think "ah i'd write it in batch" or "no way would I write that in batch ,i'd use ..." ?

Robert Harvey

I'm pretty sure that there are DOS command line utilities that already have that capability.

barlop

21:30

well robert, what would you do?

Robert Harvey

50

Q: What port is a given program using?

I want to be able to figure out what port a particular program is using. Are there any programs available online or that come with windows that will tell me which processes are using which ports on my computer? PS - before you downmod this for not being a programming question, I'm looking for t...

windows networking

barlop

oh man

obviously there is a command like that. netstat for example

I guess your answer to the question is you don't see the use of the program that I thought of

so you would thus never think of writing such a thing

what I mention is a program that combines the features of netstat and tasklist

there isn't a command that does that

netstat -b is a bit slow.. but a program could be a bit quicker if it used netstat -aon and tasklist, combining them. but that's a side point.

Robert Harvey

Certainly you could write your own program. You can write anything you want, for learning purposes.

barlop

that's not really what I asked, I just asked what your thoughts would be on such a program, and I think you wouldn't want to write it, and that it would be a waste of time , that is a reasonable answer..

but let me take that question further..

with you, given your answer

suppose you thought there's value in learning and indeed there can be..

would you consider there to be much learning value in learning how to do it in C vs learning how to do it in batch?

or neither? I suppose one could probably find more worthwhile things to learn within C

Robert Harvey

Batch isn't really a programming language. It is, but trying to write a program like this in it would be like swatting a fly with a pipe wrench.

Batch really has a different purpose.

barlop

21:37

so do you think it is too intricate a problem to be that suitable for batch?

Robert Harvey

It's the wrong tool, unless you're trying to write a batch.

If you're writing a program, you need a programming language.

barlop

what would you say is the purpose or great use of batch?

just automating tasks.. scripts of a few lines?

Robert Harvey

That is the purpose for which it was designed, yes.

barlop

well, it was designed for more than that really

for example, there is for /f

which can tokenize a string

Robert Harvey

You wouldn't try to tighten a screw with an icepick. Just sayin'

2

barlop

21:41

yeah but i'm just interpreting that, do you think for /f tokenizing a string, is probably something to ignore within the batch language?

Robert Harvey

To the folks trying to star my posts: one of these days I'll learn how to use chat properly.

@barlop Don't read something into what I say that I'm not actually saying.

barlop

well, the program I described can be written in batch and the more difficult parts would be just grabbing the process if from a list..

i'm just wondering why you say it's like an ice pick.. Suppose you think batch files are absolutely fine when doing things like what for /f tokenizing a string involves

then what aspect of the program I mention makes you think batch is nto suitable for it?

batch files take parameters %1 %2 %3

so it is meant also for programs that are small tools

Robert Harvey

Write an operating system in batch if that floats your boat.

barlop

I couldn't write an operating system in anything

it sounds like you don't want to be specific about what aspect of the little tool I mention is unsuitable for batch

Robert Harvey

I don't want to get into an argument about semantics.

barlop

21:46

but that may be because you don't use batch that much and you don't want to diss a language even a scripting language

Robert Harvey

I don't use batch for anything but batches. I don't think about whether I would write the space shuttle software in it, because I don't consider that a valuable use of my time.

barlop

yeah that's probably sensible.. If you were to write the tool I mention in your favorite language, how long do you estimate it would take?

Robert Harvey

There's no way to estimate that without a requirements matrix and a software design specification.

barlop

(i've been writing it in batch, I wonder if I were a proficient programmer maybe i'd be quicker in a programming language).

Robert Harvey

You learn how to program by writing code. Batch seems simple because it is, but it's simple because it doesn't have to be complex to do what it does, which is to batch things. Learning a programming language takes longer, but you get more power.

barlop

21:54

VB might be trickier than batch 'cos batch has some fairly weak syntax, and no debugger

and there are ways of doing things in batch, that are complex because batch is so limited.

but yeah it's simple to batch things

But when there are things in the batch language, and many common uses of batch scripts that are far more complex than batching things

if you look for example on dostips forum, the questions are almost never just how do I batch things

and nobody there is saying "oh don't bother it's a waste of time doing it in batch"

Robert Harvey

Why would you expect to find posts about programming languages on a forum called "dostips?"

barlop

i'm not sure what you mean. They give answers on batch scripting

but the things they deal might include the thing that I mentioned just now, which you thought wasn't what batch is really good for

Robert Harvey

So, to be clear, I don't really consider Batch a full-blown programming language.

A scripting language, yes. A way to execute several programs in sequence, and pipe output from one into the input of another? Yes.

The right way to write the next version of Angry Birds? Uh, no.

barlop

22:12

well nobody would dispute any of that

sounds like you wouldn't write a 25 line batch script?

unless the 25 lines were just executing 25 different programs.. or something like that.

Robert Harvey

Sure I'd write a 25 line batch. I might even write a 100 or 200 line one. But it would still be a batch.

barlop

yeah and you're defining batch as.. executing serveral programs in sequence and piping.

Robert Harvey

Batch file

In DOS, OS/2, and also Microsoft Windows, batch file is the name given to a type of script file, a text file containing a series of commands to be executed by the command interpreter. A batch file may contain any command the interpreter accepts interactively at the command prompt. A batch file may also have constructs (IF, GOTO, Labels, CALL, etc.) that enable conditional branching and looping within the batch file. Similar to job control language and other systems on mainframe and minicomputer systems, batch files were added to ease the work required for certain regular tasks by allo...

barlop

yes I know what a batch file is

I just wrote one

if you're trying to say that you may write a batch file but it would still be a batch (meaning it would still be a batch file), then that's just a cliche, a tautology

Robert Harvey

You haven't read the Wikipedia article. Otherwise we wouldn't be arguing the relative merits of batch files over a real programming language.

You asked how I define batch. The wikipedia article is the answer to your question.

barlop

22:19

I don't know why you think we are arguing the relative merits of batch files over a real programming language.

Robert Harvey

That's how I define batch.

barlop

then what you wrote was ridiculous, a cliche, a tautology

Robert Harvey

Then what is the argument?

This better go somewhere fast, or I'm switching off.

barlop

well, all I was asking was.. what aspects of my program were not suitable for a batch script in your view

you didn't want to answer that you said it was semantics.

Robert Harvey

What are the main features of your program?

Does it have a UI? Is it graphical or command line?

If it's graphical, batch is out.

barlop

22:22

command line obviously

Robert Harvey

Does it make complex decisions or data analysis? If it does, batch is probably not suitable.

barlop

I told you the program earlier...

I already wrote it it is 23 lines

you seemed to think such a program wasn't suitable in batch script

Robert Harvey

If you already wrote it, then why are we having this conversation in the first place?

barlop

I think we are on two different wavelengths!!

shall we leave it?

Robert Harvey

Sure.

barlop

22:24

heh.. ok, I intended it as a discussion on what would be a wise or unwise choice to write it in.

because an unwise choice can take longer than a wise choice

Robert Harvey

It's irrelevant if it's already written.

barlop

no it's not irrelevant at all

Robert Harvey

Yeah, I think I'll leave it.

barlop

the subject of choice of tool for particular functions is relevant, but yeah let's leave it!

I was basically surveying views too, and I got your view, that you'd use a programming language for the task I mentioned.

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