The Whiteboard

jozefg

04:07

@JimmyHoffa You'll enjoy this stackoverflow.com/questions/19917285/…

user55340

15:10

@JimmyHoffa that disconnect yesterday... you called it. The hint of a scratch at the back of my throat and some coughing this morning. Likely a cold coming on.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT On the bright side there's a cause for you being so vacant yesterday, it's not just your natural state heh

enderland

lol

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT I got over a cold in 2 days this year. I'm pretty sure my new found addiction to Arnold Palmer and hot tea helped. Now, to clear this non-stop cough that always lingers.

user55340

@ThomasOwens I get that lingering cough all winter too, but yea... the cold and the floating head feeling is not conducive to work.

enderland

15:29

so I wonder if it's bad if I hard code my login password so I can have a script to auto login to various intranet sites and automate things, since some of our sites still require this....

enderland

16:15

does anyone here have a good reference they like for understanding how xPath works? I guess I can just copy the paths blindly but this seems like a recipe for disaster - it seems the whole concept is basically just listing the tree structure explicitly for xml (?)

(maybe it's that simple?)

user55340

16:53

@enderland I've dabbled in it before. It can be quite powerful.

enderland

I'm automating the process to add people to certain email lists (there is no way to "add yourself to a list") or remove yourself since this is a waste of all my time to do

user55340

17:10

So yea... Meta... any comments?

user55340

1

Q: Current events - Questions and answers

Related: The coding for charity Q. Any hope of ever being on-topic? Coding for good or charity How can programming ability be used to help people in poverty? How should we deal with questions that are attached to a specific time or event? The one that is currently in the spotlight is Are the...

Thomas Owens

+1

user55340

Those questions... I know they are well intentioned and I do feel for them - its just not the right place for them.

user55340

And I really haven't seen the dedication from people who want to ask them to look to preserve them - curate the answers, down vote the bad answers, flag the awful answers, keep the links up to date, etc...

Thomas Owens

There may be good questions about the subject, but I haven't seen a good one that isn't a list and isn't time-sensitive.

If there are good questions, it may be an appropriate tag wiki.

user55340

17:17

It would be a good spot for a chat room... or a blog post.

user55340

Or if someone can do a really good job of asking a question in not a time sensitive way and have a good answer for it that could get a collaborative lock on it.

user55340

@ThomasOwens btw, did you look at that tag wiki on scala over on SO?

user55340

(on the subject of what can be done in a tag wiki)

Thomas Owens

@MichaelT That's kind of what I was thinking of.

I do wish you could have wikis on tag-worthy subjects without the tag, though.

Something like charitable-coding would be a good tag wiki, but it needs at least one good question in order to make it viable.

user55340

I believe that the chat room would likely be the best option. They are easy to create, automatically clean themselves up and really don't need much in the way of curation.

user55340

17:27

Thus you can list all you want in chat, and the temporal nature of it nicely locks the room after a period of time of inactivity.

Thomas Owens

In a time-sensitive event, using a chat room to organize on SE would be best. Otherwise, another setting would be more appropriate.

user55340

So the typhoon question to chat, and a general coding for a cause in collaborative lock questions or tag wikis?

user55340

> This question's answer is a collaborative effort: if you see something that can be improved, just edit to improve it! No additional answers can be added here

Thomas Owens

I'm not sure what the guidance for the collaborative lock is. It seems like it would be a good question for such a thing, but it needs regular curation.

user55340

So does a tag wiki though.

user55340

17:31

Our canonical collaborative lock question:

user55340

2192

Q: What technical details should a programmer of a web application consider before making the site public?

What things should a programmer implementing the technical details of a web application consider before making the site public? If Jeff Atwood can forget about HttpOnly cookies, sitemaps, and cross-site request forgeries all in the same site, what important thing could I be forgetting as well? ...

web-development

Thomas Owens

It seems like the collaborative lock is a work-around for the fact that tag wikis need a question to exist.

user55340

It has the added benefit of being a question (which means it is nicely indexed)

user55340

It shows up in search results (both our own and googles) and can be used as a dup target.

Thomas Owens

Honestly, I'd say that whole question should be moved into the web-development tag wiki.

Any other question like that is too broad. I'd close as too broad, since it gives a better impression of the type of question that we're looking for.

user41796

17:46

@ThomasOwens which is exactly what's happening with this question: programmers.stackexchange.com/q/218248/53019

user55340

The 'problem' with the questions is the person asking the question just wants to throw it out there and let other people do the work of building the answer.

user55340

If they want to show that it can work, they should write the question and the answer and do a really good answer that is all encompassing. But again, people don't want to do that.

user55340

@enderland ibm.com/developerworks/xml/tutorials/x-xpath

user55340

Note the 'Table of Contents' in the upper left. The '1 of 11 | Next ->' bit.

user55340

18:06

@robertharvey cigital.com/papers/download/developer_gambling.php might be a fun read (and reference) for that shuffle question.

user55340

Also, that was one of the flaws in the enigma encryption.

enderland

@MichaelT This is great, much better than the silly little bits I was able to find online

Jubbat

18:27

Hi, do you think asking for opinions regarding this recent talk (youtube.com/watch?v=TS1lpKBMkgg -- We're Doing It All Wrong by Paul Phillips) in programmers SE would be a valid question? I started learning scala recently and then I stumbled on this video and I am hesitating to continue my learning. It seems Scala could be in a dead-end. I would like to see what's the consensus here.

user41796

@Jubbat That's a better question for chat than for the main site. On main it would need to be closed as "Primarily opinion based."

Jubbat

thank you, I thought so

user41796

@MichaelT has been looking at Scala lately. @JimmyHoffa and @jozefg are quite literate in FP and may have opinions to share. It's lunchtime-ish for most in the US so you may need to be patient to see others' thoughts roll in.

Jubbat

No problem, I'll check a bit later if someone wants to share their thoughts then.

user41796

@Jubbat - here's a link to a chat a few days back where we briefly touched upon Scala. I had some related concerns. chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/12047739#12047739

Jubbat

18:34

thank you

user41796

MichaelT's points regarding understanding the JVM are well founded and worth considering. Even if Scala dies off, you'll still have that knowledge. Java and the JVM aren't going anywhere for the foreseeable future.

Jubbat

Yes I agree. However I'm a Java dev now, so I think learning scala wouldn't add to my JVM knowledge

user41796

@Jubbat Are you asking if "should you" learn Scala? Or are you asking if Scala is doomed because Paul Phillips left TypeSafe! ?

Jubbat

more like the latter, but not exactly that

I think one could infer from the talk that the problems plaguing scala seems to put the language in a dead end, I want some second opinions to see if someone already watched the talk and if my conclussion is correct and those points are valid

The bottom line seems to be that the compiler is a kludge

but the issue is not with the language itself

I wonder if rebuilding the compiler would be a feasible way out

user41796

18:55

I'm listening to the talk now. I'm not overwhelmed by his insights (yet), but I'll withhold judgement until it finishes.

Jubbat

thanks for taking the time

Jimmy Hoffa

@Jubbat What makes you think Scala's doomed?

Sorry just curious, I haven't personally bothered to poke at Scala

Jubbat

it seems the compiler is so over-engineered / code is so messy that it's extremely difficult to modify now

also Scala depends heavily on libraries, rather than having features built-in in the language

for instance operators like "+" are methods in disguise

I'm not sure about this, but that might mean changing the compiler (if that could be a way forward) wouldn't be so easy

user41796

@Jubbat Oh, so like C, C++, and Java? </snark> Sorry, but I don't necessarily see that as an issue.

Jubbat

I mean not "changing" the compiler, replacing it

yes, I'm not sure, it might not be an issue

Jimmy Hoffa

19:11

@Jubbat This isn't an issue, though if the compiler is an unworkable trainwreck then that is an issue and separate from having your standard functions defined in the library rather than the compiler

It's a normal FP thing to have the primitives and their functions defined in a base library rather than in your language itself

One common task for new learners of Haskell is to reimplement the "Prelude" library which is full of all your basic stuff

Jubbat

I think it was done with the purpose of making extensions to the language feel like native to it

Jimmy Hoffa

Using peano numbers and arithmetic etc are good lessons for people learning how this stuff works

user55340

@Jubbat Understanding different ways of using the same JRE will not hurt you. Some ideas of FP that exist in Scala today are working their way into Java 8 and beyond.

Jubbat

instead of trying to get it right from the beginning (because they would have probably missed things anyway)

Jimmy Hoffa

@Jubbat Nah, it's more about good language allows you to create the most basic of things with a minimum of facilities

the fact that it lets you define "+" rather than the language not having abstract enough concepts to allow it

Jubbat

19:15

I was feeling a bit skeptical about java 8, I read Josh Bloch saying that they should have been built from the beginning

otherwise you get a complexity explosion as you keep adding things to a language

user55340

Remember that there are three parts to what is seen as Java. There's the JVM, the JRE, and Java the language.

Jubbat

he was referring to closures in particular

user55340

Scala, Clojure and other similar languages make use of the JVM and get the JRE for 'free' as part of that deal.

user55340

The other thing thats kind of 'fun' with those languages is writing a library in them (because the ideas match the style of coding) and the calling that library from Java.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Jubbat yeah it's not arguable that java should have allowed first class closures from the beginning, .NET has had them since v1.1, but they weren't a part of the lexicon the devs working on java were after. They were C++ guys after a better C++, so now you have a language that's based on C++ in java long after C++ should have died a horrible death

user55340

19:20

The original java (aka 'oak') was targeting embedded systems. They hoped to make a jvm on a chip (the way they have a forth intpereter on a chip now).

Jimmy Hoffa

Yeah, I remember that..

god it's original intent has been so lost

user55340

So the original java was a rather small language... then they started going "oh, the web" and adding on things to make it a big language.

user55340

(that was the applet days)... and then they went "Oh WOW! Enterprise!" and started going after application servers and the like to fit into that rapidly growing area.

user55340

The language and the jvm (and the jre) have been responding to the way the language is being used. Not an altogether bad thing, but it does lead to a more complex language in the end.

user55340

Many times, changes to the JVM must be justified by corresponding uses in Java, even though the driving factor is from other languages that use the JVM.

Jimmy Hoffa

19:28

@Jubbat save yourself the hassle, go learn Haskell and be better for it :)

Scala just wishes it were Haskell anyway

Jubbat

haha I dabbled a bit in Haskell some time ago, I like it

but I think there aren't many Haskell jobs around

Jimmy Hoffa

@Jubbat and there's lots of Scala jobs around? If you're learning FP for a job you're doing it wrong, you want an FP job go learn quantitative finance

user41796

@Jubbat - so I just finished up with the video. I don't know Paul or his background. Clearly, he's very passionate about compilers. But the majority of that session came across to me as "this is what I don't like" as opposed to any fundamentally unworkable or unresolvable issue. He presented a lot of points as prima faciea evidence, but the conclusion wasn't immediately apparent to me.

Jubbat

but you can use Scala as a concise Java of sorts

no need to go all functional either

user41796

So, if you need to learn Scala for whatever reason such as the Play framework, then I would say go for it. If you were wanting to broaden your programming horizons, Jimmy's suggestion of Haskell isn't all that bad.

Jubbat

19:37

thanks for your opinion, I also think he wasn't completely explicit in the implications

my original intention was to eventually a get a job in something other than Java, it feels a bit "clunky"

user41796

To be a little harsh, a lot of his talk equates to "I'm right, you're wrong, nyah nyah nyah." There were too many unsubstantiated digs at his previous team for my liking.

user55340

For broadening horizons and employability, I'd put Clojure and Scala under one's belt to be able to point to practical uses in another Java shop.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Jubbat there's plenty of "other than Java"s, but Scala doesn't have some great number of jobs out there, it's not particularlly better for job prospects than Haskell, OCaml, F#, Clojure, or numerous other FP languages. Again if you want a job in FP go crak open a math book, the language is not the main qualifier that gets someone an FP job, it's their understanding of the business domain which will be something very math based.

If you need to use Scala learn Scala, if you want to learn something to better yourself learn Haskell, if you want to learn something to get a job "other than Java" learn C# or if you want even further off the beaten path that will still provide job opportunity, learn Node.JS or Ruby or Go

Decide your goal, if a job "other than Java" is your goal, there's far better choices than Scala which is very unlikely to accomplish that goal

Jubbat

I also thought with scala I could get a java job and say "hey I can program this in scala and call this java libraries, it's interoperable" and work my way in myself

user55340

There is certainly that angle.

Jubbat

19:47

I'm also tempted by ruby and groovy

user55340

...

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT You have a cold, pace yourself

Jubbat

ruby seems a multiparadigm well designed language with lots of jobs out there

user55340

chat.stackexchange.com/search?q=ruby&user=55340&room=21

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Easier just to reference everything that's been said before.

Jimmy Hoffa

19:50

@Jubbat It's a fine language with many horrible libraries is my take on it. But if the job is your goal do it up, @MichaelT plug your ears: It sure beats Java.

user55340

@Jubbat "well designed" is something that is rather amusing to say about Ruby...

user41796

@Jubbat If job availability is the driver, I'd hit the major job sites and query against your languages of choice. I just hit Monster for Scala and it came back with ~125 jobs currently. Ruby had 1000+.

user55340

@GlenH7 And those 1000+ are doing boring crud that you'll hate after a week or month. The scala ones are like quite a bit more interesting.

Jimmy Hoffa

Ruby's a step up from Java. There, I said it. Note: I think Java is a shit language for modern purposes.

@MichaelT The Scala ones also require a PhD.

user41796

@MichaelT In many ways, job hunts are a numbers game. If there's only 125 slots available ....

Jubbat

19:52

I see... for some reason Scala hasn't taken off yet

user55340

Its not "get a scala job" - its "have a leg up on another programmer by showing a deeper familiarity with the tools that underly the tools you are using"

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 less than a tenth of people who know Ruby know Scala though, so that skews the odds another way, then count the qualification requirement for the Scala jobs involves a Masters or better and suddenly you realize the numbers are apples and oranges.

user55340

@Jubbat I've seen a library implemented in scala and then handed as "here's a .jar" to a java shop.

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Many interviewers will look at that and say "Huh, apparently he doesn't like or feels he's better than Java...". It cuts both ways though, because you want to be rejected by those guys

user55340

A lot of the ruby jobs are "do this crud app for small shop, get it done in a month, and we'll call you again if we want some enhancements" - they're not after full time employment.

user55340

19:56

Which goes to what do you want - the more 'enterprise' languages tend to indicate that the company is invested in it and want someone long term to do development. They are languages of products, not one off hacks. And its the products that are long lasting (and long employing).

Jubbat

I see, I really don't know much about the job market for each, other than ruby is more prevalent in start ups

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT A lot of Java shops are "don't do anything! Sit still. Meet Dress Code. Watch out! Good, now stay there...don't move...don't...don't do it...no... Ok. Good. Wait! Ok. Stop! Adapter Factory Mana-NO! Simon says stand still!"

enderland

the job market for anyone who can code remotely well is amazing (and often for those who can't, too...) in the USA at least

user55340

Startups are trying to leverage the "right quick, fix later" nature of the more scripting / dynamic languages. It bites them in the end later.

user41796

@MichaelT was that typo with "right" intentional? Hilarious either way.

user55340

19:58

Nope... unintentional.

user55340

I'm still a bit under the weather.

user55340

user55340

Startups are in deliberate choice for choosing ruby to pick on the technical debt (from martinfowler.com/bliki/TechnicalDebtQuadrant.html ).

user55340

Its a question if they are in the reckless or prudent quadrant.

user55340

And then there's this...

user55340

20:00

user55340

From martinfowler.com/bliki/DesignStaminaHypothesis.html

user55340

In the ruby code I've looked at, the concentration has seemed to be focused on 'get it out now, fix design later, if at all'

user55340

Now, if you want a job at a startup, by all means, grab the latest trending language and join one. Its an experience to have. If its a good one or bad one has yet to be seen. Some people thrive in such environments, others have difficulty.

user55340

Me? I've got a key to a building that I'm fairly sure doesn't work anymore that I'm keeping because the paycheck to the startup bounced years ago. Not fun... paychecks bouncing is not a good sign.

user41796

@MichaelT That's a pretty good chart capturing the trade-offs involved.

Jimmy Hoffa

20:05

Better idea: Learn Python. Plenty of work in Python. It's uncontroversially a good language with good libraries and good culture.

user41796

And landlords are pretty good about changing out the locks after the tenant stops paying

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT If you're ever in the area again you have to make sure to have it on hand and give it a shot. Just because.

Jubbat

I wonder if in the future big companies that traditionally use Java (in which is easy for average programmers to put blocks together) could gravitate towards scala constrained by strict coding conventions just to get more succint java-y code (avoiding too much functional complexity). I guess Groovy would server that same purpose too.

user55340

@GlenH7 I assume so. It just makes for a good reminder to polish the resume very quickly when the paycheck bounces.

user55340

@Jubbat The places I've seen groovy in enterprise environments is as a scripting language tied into an existing java application.

user41796

20:07

@MichaelT I learned a while back to always update my resume at least once a year, and preferably twice a year. Even in a gig where I was happy and enjoy what I'm doing.

Jimmy Hoffa

@Jubbat No. Just no. Scala isn't going to be picked up in the environments you think. They're more likely to move 'forward' to C++ than Scala.

user55340

First off, realize that Java is the Cobol of the 21st century. It isn't going anywhere and will be around for a LONG time.

Jubbat

I agree

user55340

The big companies aren't going to be moving to anything until they find the next huge and supported language.

user55340

That language won't be C++ (it doesn't play quite as nicely with various integration points where Java does so... marginally better).

Jimmy Hoffa

20:09

@MichaelT which makes .NET the Pascal because "At least it's not COBOL"?

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Yep... or the Delphi.

Yannis Rizos

-1

Q: Does Facebook parse text into smiley emoticons via server-side code, or from client-side javascript?

I was cybersexing with a girl, and I noticed that whenever you use these emoticons: :) :P ;) :D They transform and parse the text into an actual image representing that emoticon. My question is this ... how do they do that on the server-side/client side, and through what process, and how is...

server-side

user55340

Shh... its a mod.

user41796

Shhhhhhhh!

Yannis Rizos

Cybersexing???

2

user55340

20:11

Oh, with tidings of our friend!

user55340

Ug! I didn't want to see that...

user55340

@YannisRizos you did not help my cold... and if anything you've added some nausea to it.

user41796

I have already edited it out

Jimmy Hoffa

@Jubbat Realize that Java is only vaguely different from languages from the dawn of computing 50 years ago. 50 years from now company's will have gone through 2 or 3 more languages to be at something else only vaguely different from Java.

Yannis Rizos

@MichaelT I aim to please.

user55340

20:13

@GlenH7 What has been read cannot be unread and put back into the input stream. It just doesn't work that way.

user41796

Not the details I want to hear about when reading a question.

Jimmy Hoffa

@YannisRizos So does that poster. Badum-CH!

user41796

How does he not have a q-ban in place for Programmers?

user55340

@GlenH7 Different accounts each time.

user41796

Just checked, this is the 5 month old account

Yannis Rizos

20:15

(probably shouldn't have told you that)

user41796

The wheels of justice may grind slowly, but at least the continue to grind

user55340

Quickbooks integration time!

Jimmy Hoffa

I need to write some code

user41796

@YannisRizos - I love self-contradicting comments. "No I don't care how X does it. Just tell me how X gets it done."

user55340

Btw, I am reasonably impressed at the quickbooks tag wiki on SO and the quickbooks wiki on their official support site.

Yannis Rizos

20:20

Comment of the day:

programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/218265/…

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Less impressed with quickbooks though because, integrating with accounting software is less pleasant than integrating your balls with a vice grip

user41796

alligator's implementation of eat differs, of course, in that it accepts cat and dog as parameters. — exizt 8 mins ago

user41796

@YannisRizos - Is SE mad at you? Why won't they let you onebox?

Jimmy Hoffa

> and occasionally australian

user55340

@JimmyHoffa canonical.org/~kragen/tao-of-programming.html#book3 - section 3.3

user55340

20:22

> There was once a programmer who was attached to the court of the warlord of Wu. The warlord asked the programmer: ``Which is easier to design: an accounting package or an operating system?''

``An operating system,'' replied the programmer.

The warlord uttered an exclamation of disbelief. ``Surely an accounting package is trivial next to the complexity of an operating system,'' he said.

``Not so,'' said the programmer, ``when designing an accounting package, the programmer operates as a mediator between people having different ideas: how it must operate, how its reports must appear, and…

user55340

@GlenH7 I thought I saw a bug about that on MSO...

user55340

8

Q: Allow /# when oneboxing comments

Oneboxing comments in chat is broken when there is a forward slash before the number sign. http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19894363/expecting-a-declaration-c/#comment29596719_19894363, for example, doesn’t trigger oneboxing while http://stackoverflow.com/questions/19894363/expecting-a-declarat...

bug comments chat onebox

user55340

I remember going through this with @YannisRizos awhile back... and if you get the 'wrong' url path, you're going to likely have the problem 'stick'.

user55340

@GlenH7 en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji - the unicode fonts already exist and likely exist on the target machine, or can be downloaded with the CSS font things.

user41796

@MichaelT right, I remember his having issues before.

user41796

20:32

@MichaelT agreed. To be honest, I didn't want to invest too much time in an answer for him. The question is likely to be deleted. However, it was an almost reasonable question from a beginner and I wanted to provide positive reinforcement for asking valid question. Except the context part. Still could have done without all of that.

user55340

Personally, I like putting the face in a comment which cannot otherwise have javascript in it. It shows that its a character that already exists on the client machine, not an image that is downloaded.

user55340

(Ghads... Wikipedia has redirects of emoji to the appropriate article en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emoji ) -- en.wikipedia.org/wiki👅 links to the wikipedia page on tongue.

user41796

FB's emoticons are closer to what Gmail / google chat does with a degree of animation

user55340

(though SE chat doesn't recognize the unicode as part of a link... hmm...)

user55340

@GlenH7 You could have used the example of MathJax to show the client side reinterpation of the text.

user41796

20:38

I'll edit that in now

user41796

It's still kind of a throw-away answer, but the question didn't demonstrate all that much research either.

user55340

@GlenH7 "that much" as in "any"? Not even pulling up the developer tools panel in the browser to see what scripts are running and the element in the page...

user41796

@MichaelT Reasonably certain that even knowledge of those tools is beyond his skillset of the moment. But I could well be wrong. I think he's heavy on "reading about ideas" and pretty light on actually implementing them.

user55340

@GlenH7 Surely one of his intelligence and comprehension of the fundamentals of microprocessor design and video memory would be able to select 'developer tools' from a menu and see what they do...

user41796

There's no menu on the command line... And really, the command line just gets in my way of spewing forth ML

user55340

20:49

@GlenH7 I'm not sure that Facebook supports Lynx as a browser... though I haven't tried.

user55340

> Importing and exporting .IIF files created by QuickBooks is fairly easy because QuickBooks formats the file for you. However, creating .iif files from scratch or adapting data from another program is technically complex and may be difficult if you don't have experience formatting delimited text files. In that situation it may be faster and easier to enter the information directly into QuickBooks unless you have very large amounts of data to import.

Yannis Rizos

Our third birthday is coming up. Any ideas on how to celebrate it?

user20683

@YannisRizos Booze and Bannings.

Yannis Rizos

We do that every day @WorldEngineer.

user41796

I'm getting "Pinky & the Brain" flashbacks....

user41796

21:01

@YannisRizos Contests? Hats? Hats for gravatars? Free, random bonus rep for answers? Extra close & delete votes for review queue participants? Obviously, that would be in addition to the booze & bannings.

user20683

was thinking about getting the blog back off the ground

user55340

@WorldEngineer Do one on disaster response!

user55340

@WorldEngineer Too bad one can't do merges and urges anymore.

Yannis Rizos

@GlenH7 We already had a contest, and I don't think SE will sponsor another one (we didn't really get any extra traffic to speak of back then, and we don't really need any now). Hats were a SE wide thing, and perhaps they'll do it again this year.

user20683

@MichaelT Ideally that should be someone that has done disaster related work. @YannisRizos as a Greek PHP developer is probably more qualified than I am :P

user55340

21:04

@WorldEngineer Thats looking to help disasters... not cause them (no more econ websites for you)

user41796

(with friends like these....)

user55340

@GlenH7 We show our affection by punching you... its kind of like that girl back in grade school who would kiss you and then punch you and run away.

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 ...you could take down satellites O_O

user55340

Whee. Building power went down... though the network works...

user55340

all the upses are beeping.

user41796

21:08

@MichaelT Hit Ctrl-S a little more frequently and plow through

Jimmy Hoffa

@MichaelT Opposite here: Network went pop, everything else is fine. (well, network between us and all the servers anyway, internet's up though, here kitty kitty kitty videos....)

user41796

@YannisRizos brainstorming Maybe pick a worthy cause, try to organize some extra development time for them? Or feature some of their problems as questions on the site?

Yannis Rizos

@GlenH7 Interesting...

We could team up with something like socialcoder.org (random example)

user41796

Kind of hard to predict how much traction it would get. Our user base has a number of really good architects and coders. OTOH, we're all quite busy. So finding and committing time to a cause may be a stretch.

user41796

@YannisRizos yes, that's kind of what I was thinking

user41796

21:21

humanitarian toolbox is another that I heard of from the DevIntersections and anglebrackets conference

Jimmy Hoffa

@YannisRizos Hey that.s cool.. I might sign up there..

user41796

there's one

user41796

we've got traction!

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 For what? I'm not a tractor!

user41796

@JimmyHoffa we just need the weight to help the wheels gain traction

Jimmy Hoffa

21:24

@GlenH7 at 130lbs I'm really not going to be any use

user41796

we'll just put you further down on the lever to better maximize what you bring

Jimmy Hoffa

@GlenH7 my wife yells at me everytime she hears me say "lee-ver". I won't give in, lev-vers work by way of a lee-ver but they are a special case of a lee-ver. Liskov substitution will not be broken!

user20683

@JimmyHoffa where are you native to?

user55340

@GlenH7 Nah, just took a quick break to play a board game.

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer 'merkuh! Denver to be sure. The "What's your accent?" quizes always just say "you're from somewhere... but you have no distinguishing traits that could tell us where... so no idea"

user20683

21:28

@JimmyHoffa okie dokie

user20683

that should give away a chunk of mine if you didn't already know

Jimmy Hoffa

@WorldEngineer Flandersville?

user20683

@JimmyHoffa Palo Alto

Jimmy Hoffa

I know, I've been here a while heh

Yannis Rizos

21:49

Mod-messaging one of your former high school teachers about too much chit-chat? Priceless.

Tweeted by tinkertim on November 9, 2013 at 10:19 PM

2

psr

22:45

@MichaelT You know Martin Fowler is one of those guys making those annoying Pattern things, right?

user55340

@psr Yep. And I hear he's a rubyist too...

user55340

However, his insights on technical debt are quite good (and likely a warning to other rubyists who just go "we're agile! That means we never design!")

user20683

23:20

Another question I thought of: Is learning Point-Free Programming pointless?

Jimmy Hoffa

23:31

@WorldEngineer No, but that question is! Badum-CH!

@MichaelT Design is for suckers! The real world just writes code and sells product! Ship it, or else you'll lose the battle with time and other startups! But only the smart ones like us!!

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