The Whiteboard

@Weston.h Free to talk?

user20683

@Dynamic sure

What is it that you wanted to talk about?

user20683

12:35 AM

I've largely let the blog be for the time being

So, until further notice, no new posts?

user20683

at least till I get settled with a full time job

user20683

I'll do what I can but I need more help with editing and the like

user20683

I simply don't have the time to carefully edit large posts

user20683

plus plumb for new writers and all the rest of it

12:37 AM

I'll try my best to take the load. It doesn't seem like many people are interested in working on the blog at the time being anyways

user20683

yeah and I'm just not able to pursue people about it

user20683

the other issue is while there are some interested parties they tend to be students

user20683

which makes sense since they have the time to write these things

user20683

problem with that is that they don't have the technical know-how or workplace experience to be really useful much of the time

Depending on the type of student, they probably don't have much time either.

user20683

12:38 AM

yeah

@Weston.h And those that do aren't interested in becoming involved

user20683

right

user20683

short of offering up bounties, I can't really figure out a way to incentivize blog writing

Smaller sites than us have extremely active blogs and writers, but those sites also tend to have a larger set of active users. Those are the ones writing for the blog. Our problem seems to be that our active users are more interested in helping the site itself than doing any "extra-curricular" things.

user20683

yeah

user20683

12:45 AM

the sites with healthier blogs tend to be "hobby" sites

user20683

lifestyle is a better word

user20683

rather than us, professionals, we shut down on the weekends more than most

user20683

so I'm content to let the blog sit for a bit.

user20683

We can revisit it in a bit when I've got my life stabilized.

user20683

or more interest gets stirred up

12:48 AM

I agree. I'd love to be able to say I can recruit and edit alone, but at my age you don't exactly dictate when your going to be able to be in front of a computer... my parents do that :P.

user20683

aye

user20683

and job hunting and other things are taking precedence in my life now

Have you graduated yet?

user20683

yes

user20683

there-in lies the issue, still looking

12:51 AM

Ah, I see

1:32 AM

@MichaelT You can't see my tumbleweed on SO, I deleted it because it got one answer that was shit and would have just confused anyone that looked at it

A: Defensive Programming vs. Exception Handling

12:13 PM

wonder how comes that migration from SO brings us crappy answers, even when the question seems to be more or less OK?

0

The try should cover the minimal amount of code. Your example above could probably be written if (allIsOk) { try { // check prerequisites. // execute core logic; } catch (BadException e) { // do not handle and log } } else { // do handle that cases an...

user55340

2:19 PM

    "Software quality is not a crime."

-- Unknown (seen on a poster in building 7)

user55340

(from geometer.org/sgi/usability.html )

Q: How is Delphi going on the market? Is it worth yet to make a project in Delphi?

3:01 PM

Can we get this knocked out before any more crap answers accrue?

1

I use Delphi since 1999 because it is visual, fast, helpful and committed to good programming roles. That's what I tell my friends in the university and interviewer when I apply for a job in any software house. But I am very criticized for using Delphi and for Windows development. It is prejudic...

3:34 PM

@JimmyHoffa sure, no problem. I'd also DV both question and answer, but am out of votes today...

@gnat Well then I'm glad you had a CV left, that question would have gathered more crappy questions pretty quickly, it's a typical "Hey I have an opinion too!" question

3:52 PM

s/questions/answer/f

Q: In hotness formula, discard answers when voting evidence indicates that these are not good data points

4:06 PM

@JimmyHoffa yeah. If only collider would use correct formula instead of a broken one. I think we'd have less (much less) to hurry dealing with crap like that. And, with salvageable questions, we'd have better (much better) chances to "heal" these before these get locked by crap answers

What is especially depressing is that regular ways to deal with this kind of issues just don't work. It's typically not difficult to edit the question to repel garbage answers, I can easily name a handful of active regulars who can and do just that.

Thing is though, it takes some time to figure how to clean up ambiguous wording while preserving the essence of original. In regular questions this works like a charm, but when editing a hot one, I often find out that when I'm done with edit, someone already posted an answer that invalidates my edit. And answer that exploits another minor ambig…

Carthago delenda est :)

27

In current version of “hot” questions formula (Qanswers * Qscore) *, all answers are assumed to equally contribute to question "hotness score", including even those downvoted into oblivion. Suggest to discard answers when there is a strong evidence that these do not provide good data points for ...

feature-request voting stackexchange-button hot-questions answer-quality

@gnat Stupid brits with your fancy "school" stuff where you learn things like latin. I've got some latin for you! Cave Canem!

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Semper Ubi Sub Ubi.

@MichaelT Cave Canem Semper Ubi Sub Ubi

user55340

Actually, I did take Latin back in highschool... went to a Catholic one and they still had it.

I would imagine private/religious schools still teach it

As for public schools, let's just say I learned a lot about doing word searches and heads down time

4:17 PM

@JimmyHoffa it's all Greek to me

List of Latin phrases

__NOTOC__ This page lists direct English translations of common Latin phrases, such as veni vidi vici and et cetera. Some of the phrases are themselves translations of Greek phrases, as Greek rhetoric and literature were highly regarded in ancient Rome when Latin rhetoric and literature were still maturing. The Latin letter i can be used as either a vowel or a consonant. When used as a consonant, it is often replaced by the letter j, which was originally simply an orthographic "long i" that was used in initial positions and when it occurred between two other vowels. This convention from Me...

user55340

The simple "its just english" approach to Carthago delenda est gives you "Carthage is deleted"

user55340

That doesn't get the tenses right... but gives you a ballpark of what it means.

5:31 PM

"are there any empirical studies, accreditation criteria or best practices lists published..." - this site is not a proxy for a search engine — gnat 1 min ago

agh I'm about to violate LSP... grumble!

I don't want Count on the interface because some providers just don't facilitate getting a count, but team mates are demanding it should have Count, ah well

Sometimes count will return 0. Mrs. Liskov, thanks and I'm sorry.

holy shit John McCarthy was her PHD advisor, no wonder she was so smart, advised by the man who created LISP

Huh, neat, genealogy of geniuses genealogy.math.ndsu.nodak.edu/id.php?id=61932

A: Someone flagged my question as already answered, but it's not

6:23 PM

ode to dupes (from the asker perspective:)

0

what's the best way to prevent these "helpful" flaggings in the future? Although you put this word into ironic quotes, it is helpful indeed, and instead of preventing, you better learn to use these flaggings to your advantage. Just think of it: someone invested their effort, did some rese...

user55340

I too am a bit mystified by the close votes. It's not like the question is "what is your favorite brace style?" — Robert Harvey 55 mins ago

user55340

@RobertHarvey my reading of the question was that it was asking for a discussion (with reference request mixed in).

A: Mastering a programming language by not programming?

@MichaelT close reasons split and showing only majority reason, indiscriminately attributing it to all who voted play its dirty tricks again. I for one cast a vote on "unclear", based (surprise, surprise) just on my reading of Robert's answer...

16

You're missing the point. Jeff Atwood is saying that being an excellent programmer requires more than just coding skills. It also requires being a good designer, working well with other people, and in general becoming a better thinker and problem solver. The greatest missing skill is so...

Q: Google Interview : after fucking up 1 or 2 rounds.What are the chances of selection

7:04 PM

@gnat I voted on opinion based because I wasn't sure what he was asking but thought it was for someone's opinion (and there was a bright red 2 or 3 next to opinion based too, which probably made me think "sure I guess"), perhaps I should have gone with unclear since I wasn't sure what they were looking for

user55340

I miss the too localized close reason.

user55340

-2

I gave google's interview ,for software engineer position, few days back.I had 5 rounds of interviews.2 of the rounds did not go well but 1 round went really well and 2 others were Good . So if I rate my self for all the 5 interviews it would be <=2.5 ,<=2.8 ,>=3.6, >=3.4, >=3.3. I want to know ...

interview google feedback

A: Programmers.SE and the Summer of Love

7:20 PM

@MichaelT I think what you really miss is a canonical meta reference for stuff like that...

10

Responding negatively to those folks who copy paste their homework assignments is just a waste of time. These people don't care how you react; they're looking for the one guy that will actually do their homework for them (some people will). Consequently, your negative comment will have no eff...

it's not a h/w assignment, but still a good fit - blatantly off-topic question, violating not just letter but the very spirit of site scope

> I gave google's interview ,for software engineer position, few days back.I had 5 rounds of interviews.2 of the rounds did not go well but 1 round went really well and 2 others were Good . So if I rate my self for all the 5 interviews it would be <=2.5 ,<=2.8 ,>=3.6, >=3.4, >=3.3. I want to know is there any chance.

not NSFW in its exact meaning but certainly stuff I would not want to be shown to colleagues to whom I brag about great, professional Q&A site...

5

A: Programmers.SE and the Summer of Love

What kind reaction would you expect to a post looking like this? This question would surely be considered off-topic, but... A friend of mine who lives in France is going to marry soon. And we (his friends) are looking for a nice place to make a geek party somewhere in Central Europe. If someo...

@gnat I believe this is the question where I argued with user8 (why can't I remember his name?) in comments until he ragequit. I've since changed my perspective thanks to a more rational argument from Robert Harvey

Can you see the deleted comments?

Q: Allow moderators to see deleted comments

@JimmyHoffa nope, only mods can IIRC

27

Moderators cannot see deleted comments, although deleted comments are still present in the database. I think it would be a useful feature for moderators to be able to see deleted comments. At the moment, if a user complains about unwarranted deletion of a comment, I can't really respond to it if...

feature-request status-completed comments delete moderator-abilities

Chris last

anyone here use eclipse for java

@Chrislast Nah, we're all Perl programmers; it's coming back man. In a real way.

Chris last

ha

user41796

7:26 PM

In an age long ago, yes

user41796

actually, I miss using eclipse. I prefer it over VisualStudio.
And I'll be right back after I get my asbestos undies on for that last comment.

@GlenH7 Whatever, so long as you don't prefer it over emacs

(Everyone knows emacs is the best)

user41796

omg, no, I don't prefer eclipse to emacs. Emacs is the one true editor.

@GlenH7 No flames, you've used java and you're wearing asbestos undies - you've suffered enough.

@psr If anybody's a good judge of suffering, it's the guy with MUMPS

A: Should Stack Overflow be a "last resort" resource?

7:31 PM

@gnat: I figured you would show up here. Is it really necessary to echo the close reason in a comment every time you vote to close? If you know the answer, post some broad brush strokes; I don't think he needs to know the whole Bible, just point him in the right direction. — Robert Harvey 12 mins ago

@RobertHarvey I hate to be the one to tell you, but I am going to use this pro-forma comment at all questions that look like lacking research. And, which is probably even worse, I expect that there will be a lot of such questions. Now, feel free to DV MSO post where I stated my position on that

5

I believe that idea of what is expected of question asker is expressed reasonably well in Needs to demonstrate research pro-forma comment Sharing your research helps everyone. Tell us what you've tried and why it didn’t meet your needs. This demonstrates that you’ve taken the time to tr...

user41796

@Chrislast seriously though, I have used eclipse to a degree with Java. What's your Q?

@gnat Sorry, didn't realize that it wasn't actually a close reason, but I've seen you echo the close reasons in comments below the question before. Please stop doing that.

@MichaelT I thought you used eclipse didn't you? Or do you vim even in java?

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Previous employers were Eclipse. This is a netbeans shop unless you're doing android and then its that one guy's choice. At home, I'm trying to get my head around IntellJ.

Can anyone tell what the gibberish is in this comment?

@Arjan: The question on 90% of the cases rises in PHP related context. Since I don't think it deserves its own answer in this thread, I added it here as most appropriate existing solution. Also, you're free to remove ṫ̨̗̺̭̮̞̗̜̮̗̙̫̺̖̭̯͊ͨ̌͒̍͘͘͟͝h̸͓̩̙͙̻̗͔̞̘̟̩̯͋͑͂͐a̴̧ͨ́ͭ͒ͯ̓͐̇̃ͥ͢҉̨̳̜̤͍͖t̵̳̳͕͉͋̓͐ͦͬ̈́̀̚‌͓̘̫͚̬̘̪̺ͅ if you want, I thought it adds some nice catch to it. — Madara Uchiha Jul 4 '12 at 15:26

(click the link to see it on page)

user55340

7:35 PM

Its 'that'.

@MichaelT Follow the link, there's a bunch of gibberish it looks like

user55340

paste into text that doesn't do all the funky stuff and you get ṫ͊ͨh͋͑áͭ͒t͋̓ which can be more easily read.

Messes with chromes dev tools too

@RobertHarvey why? Do you want OP to remain unaware about the issues with their question before it gets closed? I for one prefer to give them a chance to do a corrective edit ASAP.

weird.

7:43 PM

@gnat Not by pasting close reasons, please. Your "last resort" post is fine. But the close reasons are meant to apply to a wide variety of bad questions. Tell the user what's specifically wrong with theirs.

@GlenH7 I actually have a half written meta post for the exact same reason

user41796

@JimmyHoffa Jumping between code and Whiteboard today so I missed the context of this statement, sorry. So I feel like I should reply with something witty, but I'm kind of struggling there. :-)

A: Meta for Mastering a programming language

0

I cast a close vote because it wasn't completely clear how to answer the question properly or meaningfully. I would say Robert Harvey's answer is good, but doesn't address the spirit of the question. I wouldn't vote for a reopen without an edit to make it more asking for an explanation of those ...

user41796

@RobertHarvey - thanks for asking Eric to clean up the meta commentary from that question.

user55340

@Chrislast Going back this, if there is stuff I can remember about it, I can help... though I don't have it installed on this system.

user55340

8:31 PM

programmers.stackexchange.com/users/tag-future/current

ugh every now and then you stumble onto part of the .NET framework that is really poorly documented, and the behaviour is really significantly important to how you utilize it.

Is the wait handle that comes back from an HttpWebRequest.BeginGetResponse an auto reset or manual reset wait handle? Does it get signalled upon completion of the request, or upon completion of the continuation, or upon execution of EndGetResponse? Depending on all of these things, I'll have to structure my handling of the signal very differently or risk a sincere case of multithreading errors

But all it says about it is "It represents the state of the request" great, that's useful.

hooray for good debugging tools and console app testing. It's a manual reset event and it signals right upon request completion but before the continuation. ...that makes this harder...

means it needs a coordinating signal to plum the shared data across the line

Blog - Stack Exchange: Introducing Gabe, The Smiling Community Manager

9:11 PM

@RobertHarvey why not? Or, more precisely, what else? what can I use instead? Close notices to me turned out as specific as it gets in 80% cases. You see, I'd be more than happy to use something different... someting with different wording, but the same question salvaging effect. If anything, this would save me from trouble of getting back to closed question and cleaning up comments that get duplicated by closure notice...

...unless of course, closure notice turns out different due to majority vote - in which case I feel lucky that I managed to express my position instead of one indiscriminately attributed to me by braindamaged CV-split UI design

Stack Exchange

Shog9 on August 23, 2013

A couple of months ago, we started soliciting applications for a Community Manager candidate fluent in Portuguese and English. Why? Well, as Jay wrote:

…We’ve long had a backlog of proposals in Area 51 for sites that are (non-english) language specific, and as we continue to work on localization, we need to start building up the community team with individuals who speak languages that are native to a large number of potential users…

I’m happy to announce that Gabe Koscky stepped up to fill this role. …

also, what bad could possibly come from me using close messages that way? I honestly can't figure that. Except for maybe some old-timers will feel somewhat tired of repetition... as eg, I feel myself - but for myself, I made a choice already, in favor of repeating things when these turn out helpful for newcomers...

@RobertHarvey for a newcomer who just got their first question closed (and preferably downvoted), a lot of things might seem cryptic I am afraid. MSO regulars with quick skin are free to believe otherwise, the question is how close are their beliefs to perception of er target audience of the closure — gnat Aug 6 at 19:49

Portuguese, right now
Over me

Q: Can I automate a GUI-based interface as a background task?

9:51 PM

@gnat Just understand that:

1. The OP is going to see the close reason anyway, if, in fact, the question does close (which sometimes it doesn't).

2. You can always be more helpful in a comment, if you tell them what specifically is wrong with their particular question.

3. The help center is always available to folks who want to learn.

In my never so humble opinion, showing them the close reason before the question closes is premature (especially if the question closes for some other reason).

@gnat Look at this question:

-1

Basically, I've got a bunch of conversions to do which can only be done with an application provided by the company that created the initial format. That application is only available in a GUI format. I know there are plenty of programs that can automate a point and click interface, but (and here...

gui automation command-line

Do we (and the entire rest of the internet) really need to see the close reason twice?

Notice the OP argued about the close anyway.

And this one:

-1

Q: Use of Code Contracts in application

What are the best practices for Code Contracts? Doesn't this scatter the application logic throughout the codebase? Looking for practical examples of code contracts in web applications doesn't seem practical, any suggestion would be highly appreciated.

code-quality application-design code-contracts

closed for a different reason than the one you gave in the comments.

Q: Allow moderators to see deleted comments

10:08 PM

@RobertHarvey who we? last time I checked, only mods were able to see it twice

27

Moderators cannot see deleted comments, although deleted comments are still present in the database. I think it would be a useful feature for moderators to be able to see deleted comments. At the moment, if a user complains about unwarranted deletion of a comment, I can't really respond to it if...

feature-request status-completed comments delete moderator-abilities

@RobertHarvey once again, what is in comments there is not a close reason

Sharing your research helps everyone. Tell us what you've tried and why it didn’t meet your needs. This demonstrates that you’ve taken the time to try to help yourself, it saves us from reiterating obvious answers, and most of all it helps you get a more specific and relevant answer. Also see How to Ask — gnat yesterday

Ack.

we've been through it already weren't we

3 hours ago, by gnat

@RobertHarvey I hate to be the one to tell you, but I am going to use this pro-forma comment at all questions that look like lacking research. And, which is probably even worse, I expect that there will be a lot of such questions. Now, feel free to DV MSO post where I stated my position on that

Unfortunately I think I'm the one who got you into that habit. I don't do it anymore, because the OP has already seen it (they had to click through the interstitial page to ask their question), and the close reasons already do a proper job of explaining.

It's just noise, in other words. Noise that falls on deaf ears. Noise that everyone else has to hear, even though the OP is not listening.

Noise that may have had a purpose, before the new close reasons were put into place.

@RobertHarvey ah! Noise, now this is something worth thinking about, thanks. Not that I am convinced already, but I sure need to give it a thought

Well, that's something. :) The proforma comments were a good idea at one time, an idea that led to my creating the What Stack Overflow is Not post, a place where we could collect all of our stabs at clueless OPs. A post that was eventually deleted, because it was causing more harm than help.

10:17 PM

...in by the way, "close reasons already do a proper job of explaining" -- this doesn't fly to me sorry. I post comment prior to close reason appears - prior to question closure, and hopefully, instead of it - in case if OP or some other reader will manage to make corrective edit so that closure won't happen at all (in cases like this I happily remove obsoleted comment

I've been moderating for too long I guess... Trying to helpfully explain to the OP (whether its with a proforma comment or specific instruction) has produced diminishing returns for so long now that I seldom bother anymore.

The idea is to get the close reasons and the help center good enough so that the OP can figure it out on their own, if they are willing.

That way, nobody wastes their time trying to reform them.

A: Should Stack Overflow be a "last resort" resource?

@RobertHarvey well to avoid misunderstanding, I do not worship pro-forma comments as a general approach. I am using only one of these, and I find it serving me well, as I already explained...

5

I believe that idea of what is expected of question asker is expressed reasonably well in Needs to demonstrate research pro-forma comment Sharing your research helps everyone. Tell us what you've tried and why it didn’t meet your needs. This demonstrates that you’ve taken the time to tr...

besides this one, I am not using other pro-forma at all

Alright. Well, I'm glad it works for you. :)

IIRC I tried some of these, but none clicked. Only this one

Yeah, that makes sense.

Just remember that they've seen it once already, and ignored it. :)

So all you're really doing is saying "Yeah, we really meant this."

We weren't just saying it to hear ourselves talk.

10:23 PM

@RobertHarvey well yeah I am trying not to cast it twice at the same asker. Can't guarantee that none slipped, but do my best anyway :)

@gnat They saw it here first: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/how-to-ask

They have to click a checkbox that says "I understand what I just read."

before they can ask their first question.

@RobertHarvey check this out: public int Count { get { return -1; } } who doesn't love ignoring Liskov?

@RobertHarvey well, at really zero-research questions I care more about other readers than about asker. It's them who need to see it's not OK to ask that way. It's them who didn't ask the question and didn't see it because they didn't click through that page. In cases like this I don't give a shit if asker saw it 2, 3, 5, 10 times. I want other readers of the crappy question see what's wrong with it. Fair enough?

Isn't that what closing and deletion are for? Really, how much hand-holding does an online community need?

@RobertHarvey You don't like holding hands? :(

10:30 PM

@JimmyHoffa Is that what public int Count { get { return -1; } } does? I don't see the point of that.

@RobertHarvey Exactly! And it's going into production! Who needs standards, when you've got bullshit!

@RobertHarvey closing and deletion, give me a break. Don't you already know that for average inexperienced reader, these are just cryptic cabalistic rituals performed by evilnazimods from out there, from the dark side of the moon? As opposed to plain comments from a regular user, from a guy like them

@gnat beat ya to it

and here, I am talking not about asker but about readers of the question

10:33 PM

@JimmyHoffa Just recently unearthed some code in an instance method that calls a class method in a superclass - which then has a case statement with one case per subclass.

@JimmyHoffa today is your day! Welcome to the machine...

@RobertHarvey Untill I get an answer to stackoverflow.com/questions/18408956/… this is literally the best I can do to implement ICache. It makes me feel dirty, but -1 is what they get; to be fair, I can point to some places where even the .NET framework violates liskov substitution

.NET streams is usually what I think of when people talk about liskov substitution

@psr You never know when object dispatch might break, best just to manage the dispatching in a switch in the base class.

@RobertHarvey serious actually. I've seen it so much times "moderators" closed this that whatever question, and I can't recall even single case when I saw a not-too-experienced reader would say "5 high-rep suckers closed it". To them, closures are all about "mods"

10:37 PM

But what does that have to do with proforma comments in questions?

@JimmyHoffa Or possibly what object dispatch is. I'm not sure if it actually violates liskov substitution or not. I think it violates liskov.

@JimmyHoffa So this has a purpose then? A well-placed comment should suffice.

@RobertHarvey No, it has no purpose, it's purpose is "Because my interface made me, even though I can't", I'll comment it but it's still dirty because a consumer won't know whether they'll get an implementation that does support Count or one that doesn't now that there is one that doesn't

@RobertHarvey ...actually, recalling my first year or something at SO / Programmers, I can tell to me it was definitely so. Closures were "magic done by them mods". As opposed to this, comments never felt that way. Comments were all familiar stuff, I knew what it's about from other "forums" experience. Comments never were magic

@gnat I thought all closures were mods when I was new to SO until I got rep and started noticing the privileges thing

But I'm a bad indicator, what with all the knocks to the head and all

10:41 PM

One shaft of light that shows the way
No mortal man can win this day
It's a kind of magic
The bell that rings inside your mind
Is challenging the doors of time
It's a kind of magic

This flame that burns inside of me
I'm hearing secret harmonies

mods oh those immortals

there could be only one. ChrisF is going to win

Gnat goes full-blown crazy

11 mins ago, 10 minutes total – 14 messages, 4 users, 2 stars

Bookmarked 5 secs ago by Jimmy Hoffa

Jimmy knows all the cool tricks.

11:29 PM

@JimmyHoffa sometimes I am scared of myself

@RobertHarvey by the way, upon giving it a bit more thought, my "love to comments" most likely comes from my love to downvotes. This connection isn't obvious, but I think I managed to explain it here (as indicated by 30+ upvotes)...

I downvoted maybe several hundreds low quality answers and pain and effort involved in making a difference goes far beyond tiny puny -1 rep penalty for the answer downvote.

Don't expect to make a difference if you just drop downvote and run away. Chances for it to work are less than 50/50, probably something like 30 against 70 or even 20:80. Yes, and that's fair, low effort makes low impact.

When other readers look at the answer having negative score without an explanation, they tend to think (unless it's obviously horrible) WTH guy invested an effort to write something and got downvoted …

"explaining what's wrong with the answer" - same applies to the questions

Could have said what you wanted to say there in half the words or less.

The picture explains it all anyway.

11:53 PM

breaking a habit of anonymous voting hardly could happen from a brief slogan. In cases of breaking own old / strong habits like that, words don't come easy

in Discussion between gnat and Shai on Meta Stack Overflow Chat, Aug 8 at 15:52, by gnat