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Xander Henderson
Xander Henderson
00:30
@amWhy I get that, but feel no such compunction, myself.
I've slaughtered my own Thanksgiving turkey on a number of occassions.
I do feel that a person should not eat something which they are unprepared to produce from themselves (so if you can't pull the trigger on slaughtering an animal, then you probably shouldn't eat meat).
But then I really think that people need to have a better idea of where their food comes from in general.
leslie townes
leslie townes
00:44
less factory farming, more hunting. i would be OK with that.
 
1 hour later…
Paramanand Singh
Paramanand Singh
02:02
@XanderHenderson, @amWhy, @leslietownes: nice discussion! I am a vegetarian too, and can manage eggs and chicken. Being vegetarian was big problem when I went to European countries on office trips. On my first foreign trip I was in Vienna and went to MacDonald and they told that the only vegetarian thing on offer was French fries. Luckily in US there are lots of places where you can get Indian vegetarian food.
leslie townes
leslie townes
02:13
california is especially good for this. the midwest, not so much. :)
there is an enormous variety of vegetarian and vegan indian food in southern california.
indian food is the best vegetarian food, i might add. a lot of western vegetarian food is flavorless due to vegetarianism being of fairly recent vintage.
my mother has a funny cookbook from the 1960s when more people in the us were getting into vegetarianism. half of the recipes are horrible. objectively bad. one of them recommends mixing cottage cheese with lettuce and blueberries.
Russian Bot Who Knows Your IP
Russian Bot Who Knows Your IP
02:45
um well yeah
so well this discussion doesn't seem to belong to CURED
Paramanand Singh
Paramanand Singh
03:37
@RussianBotWhoKnowsYourIP: don't worry some owner will move this into another suitable chatroom
@leslietownes: glad to know that you like Indian vegetarian food. It requires great skill and reasonable labor to make good dish. Especially finding the right mix of spices is something which takes years of experience.
Russian Bot Who Knows Your IP
Russian Bot Who Knows Your IP
04:03
mak mi da owner
 
2 hours later…
Koro
Koro
05:59
@ParamanandSingh years of experience?
Paramanand Singh
Paramanand Singh
@Koro: contrary to popular belief cooking as a skill can't be learnt by watching recipe videos. It requires learning the basics by doing it from early age (10 to 12 years or so). For example making an almost circular roti/chapati is very difficult. Those who have experience can do it effortlessly.
Koro
Koro
06:25
making it circular is difficult, I agree :)
I think one needs to have lot of experience in cooking vegetarian food.
I tried to cook paneer once by watching recipe videos and tomatoes spoiled the taste somehow :)
 
2 hours later…
Alvin Lepik
Alvin Lepik
08:20
@ParamanandSingh Mostly agreed, though, why the young age specification?
Peter
Peter
C/D
Peter
Peter
08:33
C/D
Paramanand Singh
Paramanand Singh
@AlvinLepik: if you don't it in young age then laziness sets in and you won't have motivation for something like cooking which involves lot of drudgery.
@Koro: also many recipes involves words like "finely chopped ginger, garlic, onion, coriander leaves etc". Finely chopping anything requires great effort and is frustrating enough. For recipes it's just a few words.
Koro
Koro
and definitely some ingredients that I don't have!
Peter
Peter
08:56
D
C/D
C/D
Peter
Peter
09:29
C/D
Jitendra Singh
Jitendra Singh
Hello guys Actually I want to ask a home work question? Is it fine? I have shown my work fully, my attempts, where I need help, background, motivation of problem so will it be fine if I post that question in this forum
Peter
Peter
If you show really an effort, this is OK.
Jitendra Singh
Jitendra Singh
I will show my*
Jitendra Singh
Jitendra Singh
09:54
math.stackexchange.com/q/4156661/876009 Is my this homework question fit for site?
Paramanand Singh
Paramanand Singh
10:05
@JitendraSingh: this chatroom is not exactly for this kind of feedback. Here we are supposed to discuss questions which need to be reviewed. A better option is to discuss in Constructive Feedback
Paramanand Singh
Paramanand Singh
10:27
please close this PSQ
SmokeDetector
SmokeDetector
11:08
[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at beginning of body (41): How to derive the formula(9) from the formula(8) in the article? by PeiXin Yu on math.SE
Jitendra Singh
Jitendra Singh
11:44
@ParamanandSingh okay
Saad
Saad
12:15
@Peter Open for deletion.
user21820
user21820
@leslietownes For example, there is reason to believe that some animals are capable of empathy, even if not to the same extent as humans:
Empathy in chickens
Empathy in chickens is the ability of a chicken to understand and share the feelings of another chicken. The Biotechnology and Biological Sciences Research Council's (BBSRC) Animal Welfare Initiative defines and recognizes that "...hens possess a fundamental capacity to empathise..." These empathetic responses in animals are well documented and are usually discussed along with issues related to cognition. The difference between animal cognition and animal emotion is recognized by ethicists. The specific emotional attribute of empathy in chickens has not been only investigated in terms of it...
Peter
Peter
@user21820 I wonder how biologists want to actually know what animals feel (and think). Experiments might give some indication, but at last animals are not able to tell us whether we guessed it right. There is always some room for doubts left.
user21820
user21820
@Peter Indeed, unless experiments were designed better. I am always frustrated that there are no experiments regarding animal capabilities that are designed to be really water-tight.
Peter
Peter
There are not even good experiments about our free will (which should be easier to verify since humans can give the necessary feedback). Which "water-tight" animal experiments would you suggest ?
user21820
user21820
@leslietownes You can ask other pesco-vegetarians whether they think it's ethically defensible. Incidentally, the cartoon film Zootopia is portrayed as a somewhat enlightened society where it is not normal for animals to eat other animals, but some people have pointed out that there is a fish restaurant there even if it isn't explicitly mentioned.
@Peter Let's continue in the Cafe. =)
Teresa Lisbon
Teresa Lisbon
13:28
Please close this question
Peter
Peter
@TeresaLisbon Any results ? Then come into Martin Hopf's room.
 
1 hour later…
amWhy
amWhy
14:31
@JitendraSingh Please do not target (and effectively name a specific poster and all their posts.) It is one thing to come across a post or two or three in a day; but it is inappropriate to target any user specifically, and you are also asking us to follow your lead.
Xander Henderson
Xander Henderson
@leslietownes There is good Indian food in the midwest, but you have to know how to find it.
And, frankly, I usually just went over to a friend's house---his mother cooks very well. Though she would always kick me out of the kitchen, and never let me learn how to prepare anything. :\
And was always surprised that I could tolerate hot chutneys (most midwesterners don't like spicy, I guess).
@JitendraSingh Do not target individual users.
Votes need to be directed at content, not users.
@user21820 Honestly, I don't think that there is anything in human cognition which doesn't exist in other animals. We are all related, after all. It is a matter of degree, not kind (though I have no way of justifying this claim).
Jitendra Singh
Jitendra Singh
15:15
@amWhy @XanderHenderson its okay but if you read that user answer he is just spamming in the site and if this would have continued our site would had become unnecessarily heavy that is why I forcefully targeted that user but from next time I will ensure not to choose any specific user. Sorry and thanks to both of you for your advice
Xander Henderson
Xander Henderson
@user21820 Could I trouble you to have a look at this question (which came up on meta, as well)? My feeling is that there isn't really a well-formulated mathematical question here, but I don't work with low-level logical foundations at all, so perhaps I don't know what I am talking about?
I know that this is more your area, so if you could render an opinion, I would appreciate it. Personally, my trigger finger is over the "close" button.
@JitendraSingh Raise flags.
Arctic Char
Arctic Char
D1, D2, D3, D4
D5, D6, D7, D8
D9, D10, D11, D12
Jitendra Singh
Jitendra Singh
15:33
@XanderHenderson okay
user21820
user21820
16:00
@XanderHenderson Indeed, that's why I said "even if not to the same extent".
@XanderHenderson It's definitely not mathematical. It's a question about the real world, which isn't mathematical unless the asker provides a connecting interpretation, which of course such questions almost always never do.
As typical of such questions, logicians surely can come up with numerous interesting ideas that vaguely sound similar, but it doesn't imply that the asker's question is a good one. For example, one can ask: Is there a halting computer program whose halting cannot be proven by PA? And the answer is: No. I think Hardmath's comment is sufficient response.
supinf
supinf
> " Is there a halting computer program whose halting cannot be proven by PA? And the answer is: No. " --> can you prove that? I am a bit surprised by that, but I only have a superficial understanding of the Gödel and related stuff.
user21820
user21820
@supinf Basically, halting of a program is a Σ1-sentence, and even merely PA− is already Σ1-complete (i.e. proves all true Σ1-sentences), not to say PA.
If you already know programming, and want a complete understanding of the incompleteness theorems, try reading this computability-based proof of those theorems.
Informally, PA− can check every single step of a halting program, and so can prove the (suitably coded) sentence saying that there exists a string of program states that represent a valid execution of the program and ends with termination. This requires Godel coding (of finite sequences). But the incompleteness phenomena does not actually require Godel coding unless you want to apply it to systems that only support basic arithmetic rather than string manipulation.
supinf
supinf
16:22
@user21820 i had to google what $\Sigma_1$ means, but thanks!
user21820
user21820
You're welcome! If you have any further questions about this or my linked post, feel free to ask in the logic chat-room.
Xander Henderson
Xander Henderson
16:59
@user21820 Thanks for the input. I'll close it.
Oh. It's been deleted. Groovy. Nothing to do.
vitamin d
vitamin d
integral psq
user21820
user21820
17:23
D1, D2, D3.
D4, D5, D6.
D7, D8, D9.
D10, D11, D12.
C1, C2, C3.
C4, C5, C6.
C7, C8, C9.
C10, C11, C12.
 
2 hours later…
Parcly Taxel
Parcly Taxel
19:09
math.stackexchange.com/a/4157143/357390 managed to translate the answer to English despite having little Spanish knowledge, but still delete this!
amWhy
amWhy
19:38
Please close this question. It needs only one close vote, I had previously voted to close.
Martin R
Martin R
20:03
Any suggestions what to do with this question? The author clearly demonstrates their calculation and then asks why the result is different from the solution in the book – but it is not different.
Does this deserve an answer (“There is no error, those expressions are equal.”) I think not. Or close as off-topic? What would be an appropriate reason?
TheSimpliFire
TheSimpliFire
@MartinR I recall having asked this before (see quid's answer math.meta.stackexchange.com/a/27767/471884).
I don't think such questions should be punishable by closure unless they are asked intentionally e.g. to gain reputation (which has happened before).
amWhy
amWhy
@MartinR, @TheSimpliFire But I don't think an official answer is needed. But you all know well there will be some answerers coming forward to say what's already been said in comments. I would prefer it be at most answered with a CW answer, then closed, but not deleted. This happens all the time with integrals too, which very only by a constant.
@TheSimpliFire No one ever said closure = punishment.
TheSimpliFire
TheSimpliFire
@amWhy IIRC esp with new askers having a past question closed affects future questions can be asked (limits)? Maybe I remembered that wrong?
amWhy
amWhy
@TheSimpliFire I believe only when downvoted and closed. Just as asking a neutral or upvoted question closed as a dupe does not effect a question ban. I don't know know with 100% certainty.
vitamin d
vitamin d
20:19
2 more close votes needed
amWhy
amWhy
I would be fine with MartinR answering, as he commented, so the answer can be accepted. Perhaps they need a demonstration how they are each equal.
Martin R
Martin R
That would be a very short and simple demonstration. I am hesitating because an answer would help the author of the question, but probably of no interest to anybody else.
amWhy
amWhy
@MartinR I completely understand. I could support immediate closure, perhaps with a custom reason, as well!
I mean, the custom reason for closure can be: "I am voting to close this question because there is no error in the OPs work, nor in the solution. They are equivalent."
I'd be happy to do that, @MartinR, or feel free to do it instead; I will vote to close either way. I think @Xander would certainly endorse this.
Martin R
Martin R
Thanks for the suggestion. I had just cast a closing vote (formulated a bit differently, but I think the idea is the same).
amWhy
amWhy
Hello, @BurnsBA! Welcome. How do you like the politics site? I always wonder how heated things may get! We do a little casual chat on current affairs in the Cafe and Tavern chat on math.se, but sometimes have to call it "time-out" ;D
@MartinR Excellent! And yours it much more succinct than mine!!
vitamin d
vitamin d
20:36
Is this enough attempt?
 
1 hour later…
amWhy
amWhy
21:43
@vitamind I myself do not think so. Please see my comment below the question. Essentially, I believe that claims like "I tried foo, but it seemed to complicate things," is not providing context. It's an unsubstantiated claim, just as if would not be an answer, if I wrote, "I tried L'Hopitals", and it worked out fine." Period.
@vitamind Does that seem reasonable to you?
vitamin d
vitamin d
Yes, I wanted to hear the opinion in CURED since there was not one EQS comment. Just wanted to make sure.
amWhy
amWhy
@Xander I'm thinking, given @vitamind's legitimate question on a question that feigns effort, that we find a way to connect "How to ask a good question" with "Enforcement of Quality Standards". I say this because it seems some answerers are honing it on PSQs with decoration, and answer. But I don't think that is the spirit of either post. I do see you linked to it in the EoQS post; Can there be a link as well in the How to ask a good question? I don't know how else we can connect them
@vitamind Hence I responded. Let's see what others say. As for commenting on below answers is really not needed much anymore; the better route would be to flag the answers. Most every answerer has been notified in comments, already.
José Carlos Santos
José Carlos Santos
@vitamind As far as I am concerned it is not enough. It would be enough if the OP had shown us what went wrong with the attempt to use L'Hopital's rule.
amWhy
amWhy
@JoséCarlosSantos Precisely.
Xander Henderson
Xander Henderson
22:33
@TheSimpliFire I would like to push back a little on your word choice here. Closing a question is not a "punishment", and I think it would be good if we could reinforce---particularly for new users---that closure is meant to give time to make improvements, and is not punitive.
@amWhy Oh, look. amWhy said it first. :)
amWhy
amWhy
@XanderHenderson Well, I know how much all mods respect, and learn from me! ;P
Xander Henderson
Xander Henderson
@MartinR My inclination is to close the question (it is "too local"), but leave the answer in the comments. I cannot imagine another person finding the question useful. :\
@vitamind (1) No. There is no work shown.
(2) "Is this enough of an attempt?" is the wrong question to be asking. The correct question is "Is there enough context provided here?"
amWhy
amWhy
@XanderHenderson Thanks for the closure! My only worry was that someone would come along, and answer it, while it had less than 5 close votes. Gracias!!
vitamin d
vitamin d
@XanderHenderson Yes I agree. I don't even know why I asked for approval.
Xander Henderson
Xander Henderson
My opinion is that the very best questions give no attempt at all, but do provide definitions, a little bit of the asker's background, and statements of relevant theorems or propositions.
@amWhy In the spirit of the corrections you provide for me and quid: "fewer than". :P
(side note: my local grocery store has an express lane which is for shoppers with "15 or fewer items"; it warms the little cockles of my heart that they get it right)
Xander Henderson
Xander Henderson
22:58
M'kay. Back to work.
amWhy
amWhy
@XanderHenderson tanks fur steping in! Your keyboard seems to be less temperamental these days, @Xander!!
amWhy
amWhy
23:13
This question needs to be deleted. I've used up all my delete votes, so cannot vote now. @Xander, if you're still around, I also flagged for mod attention the answerer. I encountered the question in the reopen queue.

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