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04:45
@XanderHenderson That part is true, the user trying to revive GENTLE was me, but I had completely different intentions. It was meant to be a platform for helping users understand 1-1 what is wrong in a certain question/answer of theirs which has gotten downvoted, and helping them improve that question or answer. The request of R,E etc. comes here. Over there I'd have a user come in with their Q/A and understand why it was opened, and how they can improve it, in more detail than CURED would go into.
So I'm not really reviving GENTLE maybe, I'm just asking for the CF room to be given more consideration, in light of the fact that disgruntled users are very much seeking 1-1 information on their questions and answers and why they are treated in a certain way. In my own chatroom about 5-6 people visit with queries on how to write their questions best , including a person whose native language is not English. I think that kind of 1-1 tutoring is what I'm talking about, and I feel a divergence...
of that intention with with CURED's intention at this juncture. But there's no way we will act antagonistically to CURED in this respect. If you have concerns or you feel this can be done in CURED you can ask, of course!
05:09
Anyway, when it comes to that room, I guess I'm on a promenade du solitaire!
05:27
@Euler2 It is an elementary question , we will take the necessary care!
ok komrade
I am also extremely surprised. Calculus in 9th grade! It's like switching to a protein diet at the age of 1.5.
 
1 hour later…
06:55
@TeresaLisbon You are actually saying calculus at 9th grade..?there are friends of mine who learnt integration in 7th grade and I learnt calculus in my 8th grade..competition...and those institutions which teach us are well known to you,may be...
No offense, but I wonder why there are a lot of pending questions in the Close Votes queue. Is time a factor of this?
 
1 hour later…
[undelete] OP deleted post after receiving answer
@Euler2 please take this somewhere else
2
lol sorry
08:47
@Learner WHAT! WOW! I am dead sure I know which institutes you are talking about, but that's just so, so premature.
HOW can they do that? It's criminal, having to feed such abstraction to children.
I bet you : NO INTUITION is given. It's just formula 1 , formula 2 , .... formula 4122, then problem 1, problem 2 , ... problem 123981
@Learner: while learning calculus in 8th or 9th grade is rare, I would strongly advise against it. Not because a student can't manage it, but because there is not much chance of getting a good book or a teacher to assist in learning. Most competition oriented books are not worth a dime if you want to learn calculus.
In my own case I leant the techniques and key theorems (no proofs) from a similar book. But unfortunately the irony was that the book simply did not tell how to pronounce $n! $. I knew that $n! =1\times 2\times \dots\times n$ but had to wait for many years to learn that it's called n-factorial.
there is no need to learn calculus so early товарищ
2
At least not for the competitions @Euler2
comrade einstein started learning calculus from age 12
but that's a different thing
this room loves starring blyat
@ParamanandSingh According to me, NCERT (whatever edition/grade it be ) is the correct and best written book. It is researched beyond par, and is MAGNIFICENT in presentation, intuition and HOLISTIC learning of mathematics with other disciplines like environmental science and basic commerce. The others are just minting money in the name of learning.
08:59
Yeah fully agree. So the ncert 11th grade book told me that it is called n-factorial
@Learner I still CANNOT believe this , though. (I mean, of course I believe you, but I'm still very shocked). HOW can one get the intuition, the fundamental idea , the applications , all through at that level? For the love of any god, we barely grasp the idea of variables and constants at that age, and I've seen 8th and 9th grade kids come to me saying they struggle to add expressions. Calculus in 7th grade.
@TeresaLisbon: those books will give 20 solved examples followed by 50 questions of same type. A student may pick up the technique from those examples. The thing is there are very low chances of actually understanding the concepts and ideas.
no! another star!
@TheSimpliFire undeleted
@supinf @ParamanandSingh thanks
09:15
@ParamanandSingh You are absolutely right.
@TeresaLisbon @ParamanandSingh I remember my teacher drawing some graphs and all when I was in 8th(beginning of calculus)..and then a bunch of problems from the material given by the institute.I actually had no idea what I was doing..I just knew that differentiation is something we do to given expression that's it.
I understood what I was doing then in my 11th
@Learner I wish I had the same experience as you. I just borrowed a book because I am interested in that book but I didn't realize that it was calculus.
Funny thing is that I don't know what limits are...and they taught me derivatives
2
09:28
@Learner Same. I just jumped into derivatives without a good understanding of limits.
I had to use the formal definition first and later we could use all the rules.
@Peter : it appears you were lucky. In general one has to go through the non-rigorous version of calculus followed by rigorous version. And there is a time gap between these two courses. Most will not even take the rigorous one (analysis).
@ParamanandSingh That's why I agreed with you about @Euler2 's statement about the 'no need of learning calculus so early' because I want to understand real analysis.
@soupless не пинги меня я ненавижу звук comrade
@Euler2 Sorry, I don't understand what you sent.
09:41
@soupless you don't understand russian comrade?
That's right.
Sorry, I might repeat this question, but why is it that there are a lot of pending questions in the Close Vote queue? No offense, please. I just wonder why.
@soupless How many ? Everyone has only 20 such votes per day , right ? Apparently , not enough users participate.
reviewers are likely busy or too many questions are subject to a close vote
@Peter I tend to see 350 - 450 questions.
close voting queue typically has the most questions
is there a particular reason for 20 votes per day?
09:55
@Peter Should this be addressed in meta?
Why not make a suggestion ? You can try it.
I'll try, but I will first do something, if you'll excuse me please.
Wait, how many votes are needed per question, if I may ask?
10:16
@soupless Oh that? I'm not sure, I just believe it goes up and down. I don't know if it has anything to do with the quality enforcement featured post.
@Peter I found 3321 users having 3000+ reputation. Shouldn't this be enough users for the queue?
@soupless I wish. I have no clue how many of them actually even close questions.
@TeresaLisbon How many votes are needed per question, by the way?
@soupless Oh that? Five.
Five for closure, then three for deletion.
Three for undeletion, then five for reopening.
Then, 3321 users should be enough, more than enough, if you can say.
10:23
Exceptions are when a gold badge user can perform the close action alone, we don't need five users there, and of course moderators can undelete questions if they wish to.
@TeresaLisbon Gold badge user?
@soupless How many of 3321 have left the site we don't know, and of the remaining, only about 5% review actively. Sorry, a gold badge user in a particular tag is someone who has earned a lot of reputation answering questions from that tag.
You get the gold badge, you are at liberty to close questions. While that might seem a little autocratic, thankfully users use that discretion to great effect here.
@TeresaLisbon Regardless of the reputation?
@soupless Yes, I mean, earning the gold badge itself means you must have earned a lot of reputation from that badge, but beyond that no rep cap is there.
(Just out for some time, see you!)
Ok, thanks!
11:03
@TeresaLisbon: gold badge holders can close as duplicate any question with a tag in which they have a gold badge. Adding a tag to a question to use this power (gaming the system) won't work.
So apart from dupe hammer gold badge holders don't have any special close privileges. Too bad!
Only moderators can do other things, right?
Moderators have far more access and control. The simplest power which is often useful is editing comments even after 5 minutes. I would love to have that
Oh, that's what @XanderHenderson refers to 'hammer' - no voting required, apply the action immediately
Ok mods can edit chat messages also. That is another thing to have. Maybe there should be some reputation cap to allow these privileges (editing comments/messages) even for non-mod... [xander says: bwahahahahaha]
@ParamanandSingh I have the same thought as yours. Having the privilege to edit comments and chat messages without timeout is a really good privilege.
11:24
First post. Not quite sure what to do, though.
@soupless: there is already an accepted answer which is not based on any tricks like using different base. I think the answer you linked needs to go.
Not an answer, or very low quality? I find it confusing between the two.
11:49
@soupless This would not be an answer.
A low quality answer at least has something in the right direction
If the answer is salvageable, even if it is a very low chance, it is a low quality answer. If there is no chance, it might not be an answer. I'll keep this in mind.
@soupless Yes, that's about right.
12:26
Hi, do you think my question math.stackexchange.com/questions/4099830/… is acceptable now?
@A-LevelStudent I don't know about the question itself, but I can see how much effort you have put into following the guidelines that were suggested here. I'm really happy with your effort to make your question stand out, and wish you good success with making your question more popular.
@TeresaLisbon Thanks a lot! :)
24 messages deleted
@Learner This has got to be the best thing I have read ALL day. Derivatives without limits is like trying to learn a Liszt sonata before learning to play a C major scale on the piano.
12:41
@TeresaLisbon This isn't quite right. If one has a gold badge in a particular tag, they can close questions in that tag as duplicates of other questions. That is, gold badge holders are given a "dupe hammer".
@TeresaLisbon Also, more upvoted questions require more votes to delete.
@XanderHenderson Hey, sorry about that and the other one. I'm usually careful, so I certainly let one slip there. Thanks for the clarification.
@ParamanandSingh I don't know what you are talking about.
2
@XanderHenderson VERY SMART, MR MOD!
(Now you can edit this as well!)
13:33
This PSQ has several answers already :(
13:58
@XanderHenderson: editing my chat messages without my permission can get you suspended (I can ask other mods for help here). :D by the way just to confirm, can a mod be suspended?
@ParamanandSingh Wow, that seems like a very scary threat. The message ending with a ':D'. So scary.
@ParamanandSingh Moderators can be suspended, but that doesn't stop us from doing anything.
I forgot the term, what is the "place" where users "stay" when suspended?
@soupless Limbo? Purgatory?
Their mother's basement?
@XanderHenderson I found it. It is Penalty Box
14:08
Ah. Hockey.
Sorry, @XanderHenderson , but I don't understand what 'hockey' means.
@ParamanandSingh IIRC, some moderators were suspended on Mathematics before (back in 2012).
14:32
4 messages moved to ­Trash
@soupless: anyway this time I have forgiven him because he posted that meta thread on enforcing quality standards
@ParamanandSingh Wow, that was fast
Ok jokes apart I think Xander deserves a pat on the back for that meta post.
And if that is not obvious let me be explicit. The entire mod team deserves the same.
14:54
@soupless Hockey is a sport. It is played on ice. The penalty box is a box in which hockey players are placed when they violate the rules.
But why hockey players? I still don't understand it.
The penalty box is a metaphor from hockey. The term originates with that sport.
The penalty box or sin bin (sometimes called the bad box, or simply bin or box) is the area in ice hockey, rugby union, rugby league, roller derby and some other sports where a player sits to serve the time of a given penalty, for an offence not severe enough to merit outright expulsion from the contest. Teams are generally not allowed to replace players who have been sent to the penalty box. == Ice hockey == Ice hockey has popularized the term "penalty box." In most cases it is a small isolated bench surrounded by walls on all four sides, with the side facing the ice having the access door. There...
Oh, that makes sense.
Thank you.
@XanderHenderson How did you send this Wikipedia article in the way you sent it?
I think sending a link without anything else will do it.
I'll try.
In mathematics and computer science, the floor function is the function that takes as input a real number x {\displaystyle x} , and gives as output the greatest integer less than or equal to x {\displaystyle x} , denoted floor ⁡ ( x ) {\displaystyle \operatorname {floor} (x)} or ⌊ x ⌋ {\displaystyle \lfloor x\rfloor } . Similarly, the ceiling function maps...
It worked.
15:03
@XanderHenderson Ice hockey is played on ice
@soupless Thanks.
Hockey is played on grass/turf
15:37
@TheSimpliFire Hockey is played on ice. Field hockey is played on grass / turf. :P
@XanderHenderson Hockey = field hockey :P
@MartinSleziak Two moderators lost their moderating abilities for a week in 2012, which led one of them to resigning. This ex-mod was also suspended from the site at around the same time but, looking at the meta posts from the time, it seems he resigned before he was suspended.
@TheSimpliFire Lies. The entire nation of Canada would like to have a word with you.
15:58
@XanderHenderson but I'd have several nations to back me up :)
And maybe also a vote by majority :P
@MartinR It's been deleted, Martin, and for the life of me I cannot understand why the answers had to be given. They were almost given out of pity, as if to prove that taking the derivative is not a difficult task. I mean, how does one convince a user that something is actually easy from a formula? I find it difficult how, for example, 357359+283571 is difficult if you know long addition, I mean it's a long process. That's just laziness, and how does one answer laziness?
16:15
@TeresaLisbon While 357359+283571 is not difficult, 357359×283571 is difficult if you are only allowed to do it in your head.
@user21820 Let me try!
Actually I give up already.
@soupless As a guest at Xander's place! ;D So, yes, that is a form of purgatory!!!
@TeresaLisbon The most I ever did was 4-digit times 4-digit. Anyway I'll stop saying all these irrelevant things now. =P
@amWhy I am curious. What's its like, how it feels to be in there, what bliss. Just kidding.
@Xander 3rd message:
Again, TheSilverDoe: Please follow guidelines set forth here Enforcement of Qaulity Standards. — amWhy 1 min ago
16:23
Noted. Thanks.
Wow, it seems it disappeared! Magic! That answer I mean! Wow!!
@amWhy That was really fast. Pretty much within 20 seconds of you posting, it was gone.
@Xander = Magic!
@TeresaLisbon It was indeed. I posted hear merely for documentation. Very pleased with the results of having done so.
@amWhy Xander is fired up today!
It is Friday, it has been a long week, and Math SE is a great way to procrastinate and not do things that I should be doing.
16:33
@XanderHenderson Don't I know it! That's why we've had users ask to be suspended until the end of a semester, e.g., so they can't procrastinate here!
@amWhy Wait, is this possible?
@soupless Yes, but typically a user can contact the mod team if they change their mind. Such a "suspension" carries no back marks on one's user record with the mod team.
@amWhy That's interesting. I want one, too. But no. I'd rather spend some time in MSE because of CURED, and everyone else.
 
2 hours later…
18:41
(Please continue my comments in the thread above if I'm not available. I've left comments for both answerer and OP.)
This is a good question This one goes to show that it's quite simple to write a good question on the site, for all those posting PSQ after PSQ.
@Teresa: You have breached your "sleeping time!" I'll follow up on the above.
@amWhy It's FRIDAY! So I stay for another two hours!
No scoldings on a Friday and on matchday for me!
Oh, @ParamanandSingh, I hope you're not having trouble sleeping?
(Well, it was a Friday at least. It's MAY here, for all those still in April)
@TeresaLisbon Yay for May! I've got 10 hours and 8 minutes to wait! ;D
18:54
@amWhy I wanted to learn that song for this day, but I had to put it down because I found a couple of harder ones than this one, but yeah, wish you a good wait!
@amWhy I forgot to ask, how did your conversations on comments with low-quality answerers go yesterday in general?
Because one of the users I found actually had good faith in the policy, admitted their mistake and has vouched to be careful. I hope you had some positive incidents as well. Alternately, please let me know if you faced problems anywhere.
19:18
@TeresaLisbon I was mostly ignored. But I posted, like today, comments with the link to some of the Big Players in PSQ answering. Yesterday I did have a positive response from an answerer with 3K rep.
@amWhy Can you direct me to some comments? I'm happy with the user who replied to you, I will try to find out who it is. Expect a mail from me today.
But like some user pointed out in the Enforcement of Quality post, I think Approach0 and the duplicates post have to be popularized more.
Even clear and obvious dupes are being let go. I have no clue how someone did not think that would have a duplicate.
@XanderHenderson Under the post which @TeresaLisbon linked, we have at least one frequent PSQ answerer. This is just a note, I know the mod team will - or already does - take action.
@vitamind Please use flags. It is a lot easier for me to keep track of things if you flag individual posts.
@vitamind Thanks for the reference.
@XanderHenderson Ah yes, right. Should I flag it under "very low quality" or "in need of moderator intervention"?
19:23
And, just for the record, I really appreciate the effort that y'all are making to both communicate to problematic answerers, and to remain civil and engage only minimally. It really helps.
@vitamind "Moderator attention", and say something to the effect of "I have noticed this user answering a lot of low-quality questions."
"vlq" flags are generally handled via the vlq review queue, and don't require moderator attention.
@XanderHenderson I understand. Thanks for the fast response.
@vitamind You happened to catch me at a moment when I was paying attention.
@XanderHenderson There is context in the comments of that question, the user is a new user who has two questions floating around the other being here. See the vociferous call for closure from the first commenter, dear. That's the support you have!
Oh yeah, sorry. My question is, how can we lift that comment to the post and make it "context"? The OP indulges in conversation but the conversation doesn't get lifted to the comments. Should I stay the deletion and request the comments to be lifted onto the post for context?
@TeresaLisbon "It's for my homework and its written in this form"? That's why you think it deserves protection? Teresa? That is the only comment the asker left, and that is not acceptable context.
@amWhy Wait , no , I've been misunderstood.
I meant the comment by the first answerer , which went : "I’m voting to urgently close this question because it is urgently short of details"
19:36
@TeresaLisbon My feeling is that it is the responsibility of the asker to ask a good question. If someone other than the asker wants to take their time to incorporate comments into the question body, they are welcome to do so, but askers should not be putting that burden on the community as a general practice.
What I'm trying to say is that this is a user that's not active on CURED who has , within in a few minutes , written a comment that has explicitly asked for people not to answer the question until details are filled in. Isn't that a good thing?
By "That's the support you have", I meant to call out the fact that the community is certainly spreading the quality enforcement message around loudly , @amWhy. It's my call to embolden the moderators, they are in the right direction if users are taking action like this.
At the same time, I will also drop a note to the OP on what they could have done better with their question, but I think this was absolutely the right thing to do.
@TeresaLisbon Yes that is very good! But It seemed that you wanted to "lift context"?
@amWhy Oh no no, that was to do with the question marked "Delete".
I don't want to lift context.
But the point is, across comments, context comes out. That context is often sufficient in the sense that were it paraphrased into the post, then we could have a good and complete question.
@TeresaLisbon Okay, I misunderstood which comment or post you were referring to. I'm sorry.
@amWhy Oho, no problem , I knew you had misunderstood once you misquoted it so I knew you'd see the side of things eventually!
19:45
Close Answered by two previous offenders, one alerted four times, minimally, in comments, in the last two days.
Heck, @Xander. Do you realize how much rep I've sacrificed to put a bite into the Enforcement policy! Not a major loss. It's for a good cause... but I've invested heart, mind, soul, and rep, into this transformation we hope to bring about, for a long time now.
@TeresaLisbon Open for deletion.
@amWhy Thanks
Question can be deleted shall we try to save it with a comment?
20:03
@TeresaLisbon If I had seen any response from the OP, I'd say, maybe. But why are they going to be motivated to improve their post now that Yves has fully answered?
Closed question which had SIX answers Five commenters were there, not one of them thought , this is a PSQ , let's help it improve, let's stop the answers, no. Not one.
@amWhy Fair point. I think not, it's been 13 hours. Let's go for it. Correction : GONE!
@TeresaLisbon This question, and answers, shows how so many answerers, @Xander, are still frantically grasping at rep. This is a poster child Q&A to demonstrate why the new policy needs to be activated, never soon enough!
@amWhy Thanks, it is a model PSQ and to be fair contains some candidate answerers for further scrutiny.
@Teresa Great work in the Discussion chat on the new policy!
@TeresaLisbon Already dv'd yesterday, and commented on the answer, which is also open for deletion. @RRL Are you gone? We need you on one more Downvote and Delete!
20:18
@amWhy Thanks for that, and (in reply to the next comment) we should get rid of that answer real fast.
Close, and @Xander, note the three separate answers from one user trying to storm the site.
^^^^ Looks like it's closed, but it needs more than my downvote! to delete.
@amWhy Oh lord that's bad. I can't believe it. I just sent a comment on another thread where the user had written a pretty decent question. I deleted that now.
20:42
@TeresaLisbon Already had dv'd: this was my reply to the answerer: math.stackexchange.com/a/4122104/9003
@amWhy Thanks, the answer is open for deletion if you wish to.
@TeresaLisbon just voted!
That's my job done here, நாளைக்கி பார்க்கலாம் , எல்லாருக்கும் என் பெருமையான நன்றி. பை பை !
This means "See you tomorrow, my wonderful thanks to everyone. Bye bye" and I definitely did not use Google Translate.
Thanks to speaker and translator!!! ;D
20:57
@amWhy on this post you left some comments. I think you wanted to link to the awesome meta post, but some of the links seem wrong.
@supinf Thank you! I deleted one incorrect link, and included the correct link on another post. Thanks so much for alerting me!
@XanderHenderson not me.
In 3D computer graphics, a voxel represents a value on a regular grid in three-dimensional space. As with pixels in a 2D bitmap, voxels themselves do not typically have their position (i.e. coordinates) explicitly encoded with their values. Instead, rendering systems infer the position of a voxel based upon its position relative to other voxels (i.e., its position in the data structure that makes up a single volumetric image). In contrast to pixels and voxels, polygons are often explicitly represented by the coordinates of their vertices (as points). A direct consequence of this difference is that...
I never heard that word before.
@amWhy You clearly don't play enough Minecraft. :P
21:07
@XanderHenderson No, I focus on Mindcraft! But you are correct to close, as this question likely doesn't belong on math.se.
You can play in mines, crafting whatever. I use my mind, instead! ;P
At first I thought the OP might have meant "vowel", but that didn't make sense, either! Hah!
21:26
@Xander ^^^ the question and the answers are open for deletion (hint, hint, hint)
@XanderHenderson I challenge you to a game of chess!!
@amWhy I will lose.
I play chess very badly.
I don't have the patience for it.
@XanderHenderson That's the point! :P
Please reopen this (a couple gold badgers tried to do so (including original closer), but cannot due to minor retag)
(Note, I was trying to get a response from you after you joked about me not playing enough Minecraft!
@BillDubuque I'm sorry, in the reopen review queue, when I saw you as editor, I assumed you had voted to close it as a dupe, and I may have sealed the deal. But I just voted to reopen, if that helps.
21:56
@amWhy No problem. I added a short answer describing Farey mediant binary searching but I encourage others who have knowledge (and more time than I) to add more elaborated answers since we are very weak on geometrical aspects of number theory, and some of these ideas deserve to be much better known (and are also quite beautiful, e.g. the connections with Pick's area theorem)
@BillDubuque Great. I'm glad it's reopened!
 
1 hour later…

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