CURED - 2021-03-30

paperskilltrees

00:08

@XanderHenderson The limitation sounds reasonable to me. As a new user at SE, who accidentally wandered into this chat I want to share a personal perspective. I believe I have no problem moderating myself and writing only what is appropriate. But in order to be able to write a comment or up/downvote, I needed some minimal XP, which incentivised me to target homework-type questions to earn them.

P.S. I despise low-quality homework questions and answers (I believe FGITW is a closely related issue), but I was probably guilty myself, or could've been at least. I hope my comments weren't off topic.

amWhy

00:46

Welcome, paperskilltrees! Your comments were not at all "off-topic". They will be much appreciated in this chatroom. Many of the regulars have left for awhile, but what you describe is music to my ears! Thanks for posting!

@paperskilltrees Some, like me, were guilty for much longer than you. But I rarely downvote answers from lower rep users, because of the reasons you state: to be able to fully use this site, one needs to earn some rep. What I don't get is how a user exceeding 250,000 in rep feels the need to answer easy or poorly formulate questions.

Teresa Lisbon

02:33

@paperskilltrees You know what : you've realized this far early than many others did, but the most important thing is is that once you realized it wasn't right, you did stop. On the other hand, some people, in fact most high-rep users, still answer terrible questions, which come in anticipation of such a user answering it! So catch yourself and inspect the question you are answering before you actually do so.

Trust MSE that much to know which answer to up vote, which question to downvote. To a question that deserves a good answer, any good answer is going to get some positive reception. Finding a few good answers is going to help you gain the reputation necessary for moderation purposes. I just want to remark that when I was in your position, I too had made the same realization. However, it took a lot of discipline for me to implement, I don't recall doing more than 1K worth of homework.

Don't look to answer quickly, take your time, formulate your answers, treat them with the care you'd give a family member (yes this is my attitude now) and I promise you that you will be in a strong position to contribute here in short time.

Delete Question

Close question

Delete question

Close question

SmokeDetector

03:24

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at beginning of answer (34): Differential Equation : dy/dx+2xy=xe^-x^2 by Sakura ss on math.SE

user21820

@amWhy Indeed. For me, I am cynical enough to believe that the 'accept' mechanism on SE will never change for the better, but highly-upvoted wrong posts are the Third Worst Thing on SE, after Cranks and Cheaters.

@TeresaLisbon Many of those offenders got their high-rep by answering PSQs, so...

Teresa Lisbon

03:39

@user21820 Even today if one such user came and said "today is the day I will be watchful while answering questions" then they will have gone up in my estimation. The problem for me isn't that they started, because the homework tag did exist till about 2016 or so. But it's that they aren't stopping, they're still stuck in those days when answering homework was acceptable.

user21820

@TeresaLisbon Actually, even when the homework tag was around it was never site consensus that it was okay to provide full solutions to PSQs. The term "PSQ" was around at that time as well, and the how-to-ask page was there since the very beginning.

Teresa Lisbon

@user21820 What's worse, is that others are now following in their footsteps, unaware that they are carrying on a tradition which is obsolete, simply because it yielded reputation at that time and it continues to do so now. I have the statistics, although I wouldn't need to necessarily provide it, that the bulk of high rated PSQ answers every day are provided by high rep (>10 K) users.

The problem is funny : it's like we are suddenly asking people to change the way they are earning reputation, by being more careful with their contributions and what post they are contributing to, which is not the way those with high reputation might have done earlier. So that is causing some consternation in the ranks. It is up to us to help turn the tide. There is no time to be ashamed that we were once PSQ answerers , but it takes courage to get out of the habit, and acknowledging it is 50%!

user21820

Indeed. Acknowledging is the first crucial step.

Teresa Lisbon

@user21820 Very true, that's why I wished to laud @paperskilltrees.

And I hope that this user will spread that message on the posts that they visit.

user21820

Yup.

user21820

04:21

@XanderHenderson I disagree, but let's move this discussion to another room.

Teresa Lisbon

@user21820 While I agree with Xander that it is a regional phenomena (in India, doubt and question are pretty much synonymous! Teachers often say "any doubts?" after finishing a lesson, and there's some explanation here). Interestingly enough, I never used the word doubt like others used it, and I don't know why

I think that we at MSE could look to correct that particular phrasing. I too had some very peculiar Indian phrases I would frequent at the time of joining the site. Over time it was ironed out and replaced by a more polished version that you are witness to at the moment. (Funnily enough, MSE also helped polish my native languages as I always wanted to use these better than English so had to improve them simultaneously).

The difference between the meanings of the words "question" and "doubt"

user21820

@TeresaLisbon It's because you didn't make the mistake that others did, in line with my analysis here.

Martin R

04:36

@TeresaLisbon That answer has is deleted now. It is surely pure coincidence that the three delete voters received a downvote at almost the same time :(

Teresa Lisbon

@MartinR Absolutely right! I was wondering if I could attribute that downvote to a particular user whose question I closed. Thank you very much for the information.

I deleted the question there as well.

Paramanand Singh

05:53

@MartinR, @TeresaLisbon: while speaking of downvotes, I also got one today but perhaps it is not related to my activity in CURED.

Teresa Lisbon

@ParamanandSingh I see. Actually the downvote I got, it was amply clear that it was scattered, because the answer had a bounty on it in addition to an acceptance. Still a little surprising to anybody, an accepted answer with a bounty awarded to it sitting on -1 votes!

Paramanand Singh

@TeresaLisbon: btw the questions you gave for c/d are now done.

Teresa Lisbon

@ParamanandSingh Thank you, and I hope the effects of the SE shake up of a few days ago are now worn off and your experience on the site is as per usual.

Paramanand Singh

I think it has improved a lot. There are occasional hiccups but not frustrating.

Teresa Lisbon

@ParamanandSingh Great to know.

Paramanand Singh

06:04

Mod elections have begun on MO and I see the first nomination for Asaf. Perhaps their hands are not full with the moderation of mathse.

Teresa Lisbon

06:42

@ParamanandSingh Any other names you've seen on MSE before over there?

Paramanand Singh

09:22

@TeresaLisbon: there is another person named "mick" (I have answered a few o their questions on mathse), but I think there is no serious competition for Asaf as of now.

Teresa Lisbon

@ParamanandSingh I see, thanks. Not that I was anticipating any competition, but I always like the fact that people from Overflow like to frequent MSE to get work done occasionally. To me, it's like going back to basics for them, they've been living on the clouds, occasionally they catch a raindrop and come back to Earth, before evaporating and settling in the clouds again.

Xander Henderson

13:10

@paperskilltrees I don't think that anyone is overly worried about new users posting answers to poor questions---both askers and answerers have to face some kind of learning curve.

The real complaint is about folk who have amassed 100k+ XP by answering low-quality questions, often with very little time between the posting of the question and the posting of the answer.

soupless

Excuse me, can I ask if this question is considered as a PSQ?

soupless

13:26

I kind of want to help make the site better by helping from small things

Teresa Lisbon

@soupless It is!

So we are in the process of closing it. Congratulations on finding your first PSQ. You will soon find many more.

soupless

@TeresaLisbon Thanks!

Paramanand Singh

13:41

@TeresaLisbon, @soupless: it's closed now

close as dupe only one more vote needed. Dupe target in comments

Teresa Lisbon

@ParamanandSingh Closed. @soupless Welcome!

Xander Henderson

13:57

@soupless Yes, that is an example of a PSQ. It would be greatly improved if the asker could indicate the source of the problem (eg what text does it come from?) and what tools they might expect to apply to it (eg what results were introduced leading up to that problem?).

amWhy

14:28

@XanderHenderson I fully agree those are often the most irritating and least justifiable wrt answer simple PSQs. But once has become a "trusted user", one has all the privileges possible, for the most part. I think it's worth sending strong messages, via closure of PSQs and those who keep chasing rep at a frantic speed to reach 50k...75K..., rather than waiting until they persist past 100k. We could intervene a bit earlier in order to rehabilitate rep addicts.

user21820

@amWhy Fully agree.

amWhy

@Xander If Asaf is elected a mod on MO, would he remain modding here?

user21820

@amWhy He had better!!

Paramanand Singh

@amWhy: I think same person can be a mod on two different sites. It is entirely upto Asaf however to retire from being mod here (this is presumably unlikely and I wouldn't want him to retire).

amWhy

I'd ping @Asaf, to ask him myself, but he's not pingable from chat.

Xander Henderson

14:43

@amWhy I agree. Unfortunately, there is only weak community support for treating PSQ answers (note: answers, not answerers) with the same level of scrutiny as the questions themselves.

amWhy

@ParamanandSingh Oh yes, indeed. @quid moderates two sites currently.

Paramanand Singh

@amWhy: you can directly ask on mod Nomination page or the questionnaire. People from this community do have a right to ask him.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson I understand that, but by avoiding addressing that issue, enables the insatiable rep-seekers to keep on doing what they've always done.

Paramanand Singh

I wasn't aware that @quid moderates two sites.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy Again, I'm not a dictator, and can't take unilateral action. I have tried a couple of times to rally support among the moderators for taking more aggressive action regarding PSQ answers, but, again, couldn't generate much consensus.

user21820

14:47

@XanderHenderson Maybe the solution would be to elect more 'anti-PSQ' moderators. =D

amWhy

I think it appropriate to downvote inappropriate answers to poor posts because I honestly feel the answer "is not helpul/useful".

@XanderHenderson I completely understand. We are very aware of your positions and efforts. And the efforts of another mod, and occasionally the efforts of a third mod.

Paramanand Singh

@user21820: I think this more importance to answers is driven from the top by SE overlords. I don't know if moderators can really convince se staff on this.

user21820

@ParamanandSingh In general, this might be the case, but it is possible for site-specific norms to override the general SE rules, such as Physics SE's ban on homework questions.

Of course, we're not saying to ban homework questions, but it is of a similar site-specific flavour.

Paramanand Singh

Let's wait for the next election of mathse @user21820

And then we can push this agenda

user21820

Hahaha.. I think you should probably run again. But once you get elected, we'll lose quite a bit of your contributions here (due to the problem of unilateral votes). That's just too bad I suppose.

amWhy

14:53

@ParamanandSingh Unfortunately some mod's started very early on this site, and unfortunately, do to Jeff Atwood and Co. some became indoctrinated, are are still under its spell. How about Community Impeachment!

Paramanand Singh

I will run if I am around at that time.

amWhy

@ParamanandSingh You better! ;D

Paramanand Singh

@amWhy: is there a policy of impeachment by community members?

user21820

Actually that thing about unilateral votes puzzles me. When exactly are moderators supposed to use them? If a question ought to be closed, why should a moderator avoid just because they are the first to see it? Same for deletion. Clearly there needs to be some checks and balances, so I'm not sure what is the best way. Maybe their vote should count twice rather than being unilateral...

Paramanand Singh

@user21820: But mods can just give links to bad answers and PSQs in CURED

user21820

14:55

@ParamanandSingh That's side-stepping the problem. Don't forget that CURED was not inbuilt in SE.

amWhy

@ParamanandSingh I doubt it. But there are informal ways of protesting peacefully: We shall overcome PSQ's. We shall overcome......

Paramanand Singh

@user21820: I almost read your comment as "CURED wasn't built in a day"

user21820

@ParamanandSingh And having to delegate the job to others wastes time and energy too. Might as well give their votes greater weight rather than making them have to post links somewhere else.

@ParamanandSingh Lol!

soupless

If I may ask, what should I do when I see a PSQ?

Paramanand Singh

@soupless: cast a close vote (if you have privilege) and post a link here.

soupless

14:59

@ParamanandSingh Well, I am still on 125 so I still can't cast one. Should I post a link here or flag the question?

Paramanand Singh

I don't think you need to flag. Flags are for more serious problems. But you should post links here. In general restrict yourself to 12 links in this room per day

amWhy

Flagging the question will give your the option: this post should be closed... clicking on that will send the post to the close vote review queue, where users in that queue can see it.

soupless

@ParamanandSingh Ok, thanks!

Paramanand Singh

@user21820: I think there are some questions which are worse enough that many mods will close/delete single handedly.

amWhy

@ParamanandSingh Until one can downvote, that option is one option when a user clicks on "this post should be closed". It is not a closevote, but it will send the post to the review queue.

Asaf Karagila

15:02

@amWhy: Mariano was a mod on both sites for a while before he stepped down.

user21820

@ParamanandSingh I've seen a few, mostly by Xander and Alexander, but they frequently don't because of the perceived dictatorial nature of unilateral votes, which is why it puzzles me that the feature of those votes does not seem to be of actual benefit.

amWhy

@AsafKaragila I just got worried when I learned above that you were running as a candidate to moderate M), kind of an "Oh no! What will that mean for us?!" reaction.

Paramanand Singh

@AsafKaragila: hello! I think many would want you to moderate both mathse and MO.

Asaf Karagila

@amWhy Just because I go and get myself another wife doesn't mean that I don't love your mother.

@ParamanandSingh Thanks. I hope that's the case, we'll find out at the end of next week, I suppose. :-)

user21820

@ParamanandSingh After all, if a post is really very terrible, it would far more easily get closed by ordinary review, so moderators don't even have to step in.

amWhy

15:04

@AsafKaragila Hah! :P

Paramanand Singh

@AsafKaragila: like mathse elections, will you announce the results on MO election?

user21820

@AsafKaragila: Oh hi! Long long time no see in chat!

Asaf Karagila

@ParamanandSingh Not while running.

@user21820 And you won't see me for much longer either. I need to finish writing this proof today, since it's the technical core behind the whole paper.

user21820

@AsafKaragila Okay!

All the best with your paper!

Asaf Karagila

@user21820 It's already mostly done, just needs writing. It's pretty cool, I'm writing it with Noah.

user21820

15:09

Very nice!

Xander Henderson

@amWhy I agree. And now I have to pay attention to my instructional duties. :D

@soupless As amWhy suggests, use standard flags to mark a question as low-quality. This will send it to the review queues, and will not require moderator intervention.

2

amWhy

@XanderHenderson I think it would be more palatable to users if we determine a time at which we would begin being more stringent on answers to PSQ's. post 2018, post 2019? Because the ethos and norms on this site, even for PSQs, has changed and become stricter.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy Indeed. And now, really, I have to go. Really, truly.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Really really truly??? If so, GO! It's a fun game!

Go (game)

Go is an abstract strategy board game for two players in which the aim is to surround more territory than the opponent. The game was invented in China more than 2,500 years ago and is believed to be the oldest board game continuously played to the present day. A 2016 survey by the International Go Federation's 75 member nations found that there are over 46 million people worldwide who know how to play Go and over 20 million current players, the majority of whom live in East Asia.The playing pieces are called stones. One player uses the white stones and the other, black. The players take turns placing...

Or, @Xander do you have to do some programming using GO?

golang.org

Peter

15:38

@amWhy What is the current status of the close review queue ?

amWhy

@Peter After ten downvotes, I see 498 questions remaining to be reviewed. Others likely see more, especially those who never review in that queue.

amWhy

16:03

^^^@Peter, I meant after my ten close votes today.... Everyone sees the number of posts waiting in the close review queue - the number you've reviewed. I can only tell you what I currently see, but I review 20 posts per day, plus cast close-votes in low-quality queue, plus cast them in CURED. I suspect the actual number of posts in the close review queue is definitely greater than 500.close

For some reason even when I mean closevote, my fingers defy me and type "downvote"!! :(

user1729

To delete: 3592044, 1818825, 1926207, 4077538, 4075830.

amWhy

Each of the five in need of deletion have 2 d's with only one more delete vote on each.

user1729

16:18

@amWhy Thanks, they're all gone now.

amWhy

@user1729 Yay! Thanks for posting them, they were all good calls on your part.

user1729

@amWhy Also, do you know why I cannot vote to delete this question: 4074822? I'm having trouble finding the precise conditions needed, but I guess the accepted answer makes a difference?

amWhy

Try now, @user1729, it (the question) still needed a third downvote to enable deletion now, versus a week of so from now.

user1729

@amWhy Okay, that works. So fewer downvotes are needed as time passes then?

amWhy

@user1729 Yes. But a question with score $\leq$ 0, with no upvoted (or accepted) answers, is automatically removed after something like 10 days.

user1729

16:27

@amWhy Yes, I was using that fact to moderate my delete-suggestions ("no upvoted"="score $\leq0$", or actually "no upvoted"?)

amWhy

Sometimes a question is -3, and two delete votes, but a sympathizer or answerer upvotes it, e.g., In which the option to delete disappears. If another downvote is cast, the two delete votes already cast, count. A lot of times I've cast a downvote and then my delete vote deletes the question.

user1729

ok, thanks for the info.

amWhy

@user1729 Excellent! If you go to the mod tools, tab delete, you'll see a list of both questions and answers in need of deletion. They list the current number of delete votes, and the number of delete votes need to delete it. When link looks faded, showing 2 delete votes have been posted, I often check it out. That's where I find a lot of the posts I spoke about in my last comment. I add a downvote (unless I've already voted), and if that activates the possibility to delete.

Teresa Lisbon

Should this be closed for being opinionated, or is it genuine?

Could be lack of context?

user1729

16:43

@TeresaLisbon The first one is definitely "opinion based", whether it is genuine or not.

Teresa Lisbon

@user1729 Great, I put the close vote there.

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon Indeed, I agree with the sentence @user1729 wrote.

Teresa Lisbon

@amWhy Thanks. I'd like your opinion on whether the second one lacks context or not. You will know that I have begun my half-daily PSQ crawl.

user1729

@TeresaLisbon It definitely lacks context. Saying "I tried to find a counter-example" isn't an attempt; it's just the converse of "I tried to prove it"!

amWhy

I personally think it lacks context. "I tried to find counterexamples..." Why didn't the OP tell us the ones he tried... etc.

Teresa Lisbon

16:48

Duplicate @amWhy @user1729 Thanks, I put the close vote anyway there. More incoming.

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon It's closed, but it should have been closed as "needs context and more details". Its' score is at zero, after I cast a downvote. I'd like to see it deleted. It serves little purpose in any duplicate chain.

Peter

D

Teresa Lisbon

PSQ with five upvotes @amWhy Same here, will downvote to help out.

@Peter Gone with the wind.

amWhy

@Peter gone.

Peter

D

Teresa Lisbon

16:54

Missing context and see the answerers.

Peter

C/D

D

Teresa Lisbon

C

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon It originally had seven upvotes, but I cast one of two downvotes earlier. This is a matter of needing to make the question deletable now (eight more downotes needed), or waiting a three, or five days, until the software makes deletion votes available.

Teresa Lisbon

The title, question and answer are competing to be the shortest @amWhy I think we'll wait, I'll scribble it in a corner and we'll get back to it. Getting eight downvotes may be difficult, the system could also expect spamming, right?

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon I just think waiting for 8 downvotes will take longer than waiting a few days to be able to delete.

@Peter gone.

Teresa Lisbon

17:03

@amWhy True. I will , on a good day, go through all the trouble posts I've jotted down and see if they are deleted or not, and then release them here slowly so we can get rid.

amWhy

@Peter Closed, open for delete votes.

Teresa Lisbon

Needs clarity, not an answer from a high rep user!!

@Peter Done and dusted.

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon Question needs only one more downvote to open for deletion.

Teresa Lisbon

@amWhy Downvoted, can finish off : "mirror, mirror on the wall, which is the shortest of them all?"

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon One more delete vote and the question and answers all vanish! But the OP and Fred make it to the final round!

Teresa Lisbon

17:12

@amWhy Fred will win. He is the only person that can make a PSQ look as long as the Iliad.

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon Hah!

@TeresaLisbon @Peter sealed the deal for deletion!!

Teresa Lisbon

@amWhy Great. More coming up in the form of :

amWhy

As much as I'm tempted to search with questions or answers under a certain amount of characters, I think it over-selects culpable posts. It might help shorten one's review of bad questions, but I've seen a lot of crap from answerers and askers that is just a long rant or long and cranky, etc.

Teresa Lisbon

Dupe

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon That seems like a keepable, honest duplicate, I will vote to close as a dupe, unless the question proposed that it is supposed to be a duplicate of, needs to be as acceptable, or more so, as this post. I shall go back to the post to determine...

Peter

17:19

Some users just answer everything , no matter how trivial , unclear or badly written it is. We should make a TOP 10 of the worst such cases.

amWhy

The closed as a duplicate should actually be the target post (of which your link is supposed to be a duplicate of). The one in the link is far better than the original. That would entail voting to reopen the current post, and when opened, voting to close as a dupe the other post.

Teresa Lisbon

@amWhy Funny. It's because of the answerer that I reached the post, and I don't know how worthy the answer is, to me it seems low quality and insufficiently explained.

amWhy

@Peter That would be challenging, because there are > 30 such answerers, and climbing, and part of the problem is their flurry of activity varies, so one week, we could likely figure out the worst abuser/answerers, but the next week, the top 10 may vary, and the next week, it might also vary.

Teresa Lisbon

The top 10 will vary from day to day. Today, I'd give that precis writing competition and the PSQ answered by three high-rep users my vote.

C/D

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon Oh thanks, I'd rather see that answerers post deleted (one more downvote will open for deletion, because even if the question is reopened, we'd have to cross our fingers hoping a good answer comes along, before closing the other.

Teresa Lisbon

17:28

@amWhy The answer is ready to delete.

Downvote followed by delete

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon Thanks to Teresa, Just hoping to provide a link to the post: only one more delete vote needed on the answer.

@TeresaLisbon As you wish! Open for deletion

Teresa Lisbon

Delete this question, and see the comments under the answerer's post. This answerer has some history @amWhy Thanks.

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon Needs to gain two more downvotes. That question is at the bottom of the barrel! Today I've sacrificed a lot of -1 in rep for particularly inappropriate answers

Teresa Lisbon

And I love what's happened here. So a moderator in the comments is trying to make sense of the question (I cannot) then the answerer comes up and says the moderator says the question is unclear, and then answers it, and the OP isn't convinced. That's life.

Anything to vote down there, do inform me!

amWhy

17:44

@TeresaLisbon The answer, absolutely, and hopefully deletion as well. It's got one downvote, and one delete vote. I do not like odd reputation totals! (Except if the last digit is a 5)

Teresa Lisbon

Close @amWhy A couple or three of them got mine down to an even number!

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon Already have voted to close, so I'm glad your link to it was renewed. Also, the answer needs one more delete vote.

As you all know, the close queue audits are very difficult to fail (properly distracted, it possible to fail). I'm past my annoyance with how bad they are, and I swear, some of the comments by "edit suggesters" in the queue's audits are hilarious, given the clear vandalism in the suggested edit. See:

math.stackexchange.com/review/suggested-edits/1571718

I've seen even more hilarious comments in some of those audits, but made reviewing suggested edits less tedious!

@TeresaLisbon I'm surprised to see the vast number of my downvotes on answers compensate me with a return of one rep point, after deletion. But, inevitably, there is some degree of loss.

Teresa Lisbon

@amWhy The suggest edit, unbelievable. Even a child will see an incoherence in the way the sentences are framed there. "Dimension of the consumable replacements" sounds like a sci-fi cookery show.

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon I would, for once, like to see a suggested edit audit in which they give you a suggested edit that is very good, so if you vote to reject it, you fail it.

Teresa Lisbon

18:01

@amWhy Makes sense, except the reason why they don't do that is that apart from basic principles, good edits are usually injections of mathematical content which are more difficult to trace and verify. It's like a one-way sampling : if it's not bad enough, keep it. So the idea is that everybody only needs to be trained to see what is bad and no more.

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon Yes, I get that. But remember, I've seen countless under 2000 users slave to suggest edits, so they can earn 2 points for each edit, and some take the easy way out. Again, the culprit is a system built on gaming, with rep. Fortunately, once one exceeds 2000, no more lolly-pop for editing. And almost all of them go from suggesting 15 edits a day, to none. :(

2

Teresa Lisbon

"dimension of the consumable replacements" should have been the title of a poem by Edward Lear. Or maybe Lewis Carroll."@amWhy That part is true, maybe teaching users to recognize at least the principles of a good edit(based on site rules) is important and can be done with reasonable "non-extreme"(the likes that Edward Lear would eat for dinner) examples

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon @Xander posted a working draft of such a post, input from a lot of us, to meta.

Peter

open for deletion

Teresa Lisbon

@amWhy I took a look at the meta post : it's lovely, just the kind I'd encourage a new user to take a look at.

amWhy

18:17

@Peter Gone!

@TeresaLisbon How did you search for it? We hoped it would be a under frequent tab, but the posts designate FAQs consist of sixty pages of posts!.

Teresa Lisbon

@amWhy This is the post, right? The first page of Xander's meta profile is where I found it.

amWhy

@TeresaLisbon Yes, indeed. It remains a proposed faq, whick likely means it needs more upvotes. I really wish in the review suggested edits queue, we could (1) suggest tips for suggested editors, & have a link to that post permanently in the queue, so when responding to users suggesting an edit, we could include the link.

Teresa Lisbon

@amWhy Couldn't Xander make the necessary proposal go through? Does it need a push from other moderators as well?

amWhy

18:33

It would need programmer support. I mentioned this as a suggested improvement when they first announced updated review queues, and while the announcer seemed to really like my idea, he said "that's not in the scope of what we are doing now" (updating queues). And he suggested raising the issue after all the kinks were worked out in the roll out of those initial upvotes.

Teresa Lisbon

@amWhy I see. Yes, the reply makes sense. But that should be that for me and the day. Await the update, stay late at no rate! (composing nonsense poetry before going to sleep).

amWhy

I will think about bringing it up again, and I would welcome others' input, as well, like from you, @Xander, @Peter, @Paramanand, etc. That's what I did to get the discussion going on problems frequently seen in suggested edits, to help clarify "how to suggest a good edit."

Xander Henderson

18:54

I have acted unilaterally.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Yes, I've seen you do that, but you don't, and likely shouldn't, do so too frequently. I think some posts are so outrageous, it's more expedient to close immediately to prevent answers.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy This was in reference to the FAQ discussed above.

amWhy

19:10

@XanderHenderson ;P Oh... I get it now. It's now an official faq!! Yay! Thanks, Xander.

quid

20:11

@AsafKaragila bad example. ;-)

Also finally your comment about my departure could get some credibility. :D

That's the main reason I root for you.

amWhy

20:37

This is a implicit psq, asker only posting two links, to content. [Close]((math.stackexchange.com/q/4083458/9003)

@quid This sounds like an inside joke. Better posted in your all's private cafe.

@quid, No problem with your brief comments. But most user's likely don't get the last two comments of yours.

amWhy

21:21

Please help to close

José Carlos Santos

@amWhy As far as I am concerned, it's too late… because I have already voted to close it.

amWhy

@JoséCarlosSantos ;D Thanks for voting.

José Carlos Santos

close 1, 2

amWhy

@JoséCarlosSantos It seems requests for close votes and delete votes are less successful in the last hours of the UTC day!.

Xander Henderson

Ugh... this is an example of why one should not try to do math while not braining good. I closed the question for lacking context, then made a dumb comment.

Folk jumped on the dumb comment, and (I think) are using that as a justification to reopen the question. Despite the fact that the question has no context (no source, no motivation, and only the barest suggestion of "I tried a thing"), and is a duplicate many times over. :\

amWhy

21:30

@XanderHenderson Yikes!!! Good riddance.

Xander Henderson

Or maybe people are just looking for the easy XP?

quid

@amWhy they are clearly off-topic here, feel free to move them to trash.

Xander Henderson

I think that if I had just closed the question, there would have been little controversy.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson You could be be right. But your also write that people don't want it closed so they can answer, and get easy rep, just as you suggested.

Xander Henderson

Yeah, I just feel that, by making a couple of dumb comments, I gave the reopeners ammunition. :\

In any event, the comments are gone now (I deleted my own, and then deleted the responses once folk had a chance to see them).

amWhy

21:37

@XanderHenderson Good call! But what you had to say was spot on! It really is about how not to trigger the rage of users addicted to easy rep, when they smell prey.

vitamin d

May I ask what your comment was?

Xander Henderson

@vitamind It was an incorrect mathematical statement, borne of not having the time or sleep to fully think through the problem.

Basically, I missed the $n$-th power in the denominator (or, really, didn't follow through the implications of that power carefully enough).

vitamin d

@XanderHenderson I see. And that's what caused such big turbulences? Probably because you're a moderator and you're supposed to make no mistakes no matter what :/.

@amWhy I'm interested in one of your questions on MSE: "Book/tutorial recommendations: acquiring math-oriented reading proficiency in German" After ten years I want to ask you - what has helped you most to learn "mathematical german"?

amWhy

21:59

I think the suggestion to read a two texts at the same time, one in the original language it was written in, and the other the translated version, one English one German. And regular comparison between the two. Acquiring a reading knowledge of a language is less work that learning how to speak it. But also, a reference was suggested, which I bought. But that post, a question, I changed to CW, when an asker could do that, and it has been targeted with downvotes by most of my haters!!

^^^@vitamind The same advice for learning to read German if your native tongue is neither German or English. Try to acquire the original text, and it's translation in the language you are most comfortable. And you can also search for books translated from your native language to German.

@JoséCarlosSantos Both posts have gained at least one closevote from me. I am out of dvs for the next one hour and 57 minutes...

vitamin d

@amWhy Thanks! What would you do if you can't find a translation? Simply try to read the paper and then looking the words up that you don't know?

Xander Henderson

@amWhy The fact that mathematics is full of cognates and notation definitely helps, too. My mother, as a PhD student in archaeology, had to pass a written exam in a foreign language (French, in her case). Because archaeology is a social science, relying both on theory from the sciences and the humanities, she had two options: take the version usually given to humanities students, or the version usually given to science students.

She opted for the science version (despite having zero background in the sciences). Her reasoning was that she could rely on cognates to get through it.

Also, perhaps this should be moved to the Cafe?

amWhy

@vitamind Yes. Initially start with translations in your topic of textbooks. Then for papers, use a handy reference to translate.

SmokeDetector

[ SmokeDetector | MS ] Link at beginning of body (43): I know Gal $(\mathbb{Q}(\sqrt[6]{14})/\mathbb{Q}) \cong D_6$, but how do I compute the field extension lattice? (For graduation celebration tattoo) by shm614 on math.SE

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Absolutely. I can read and understand competently in French, Spanish, and Portuguese, because I know spanish inside out, one of the three Romance (Roman/latin) based, and they are so similar in structure and cognates. In fact, studying Spanish transferred to my understanding of English. Infinitives, tenses, etc.

And, English just barely one over German, when in late 1700's, they were debating what the national language in the US should be.

vitamin d

22:16

@XanderHenderson I am asking you as a moderator: What do you think of the idea of adding "reactions/emoticons" in chat? Let's say I want to show a small reaction to a message and it's "too irrelavent" for a whole message. I'd like to give for example a "thumbs up" emoji or a "wow" emoji, etc. that appears on the edge of a message. Obviously this is a fancy, unurgent wish but I think it was a cool idea.

amWhy

@vitamind I don't think there's a problem when using them in chat, but I'll let @Xander take the floor. I mean we're already using :P, ;P, :-), ;-), ;D, etc. primitive versions of emoticons!

Xander Henderson

@vitamind As a nearly 40 year old white man, emojis are the devil and should not be a part of civil discourse. They may, however, be used ironically.

Emoticons are fine.

vitamin d

Okay thanks to you both. @XanderHenderson Your answer had me laugh out loud. Just wanted to say that I'm not talking about an overload of extraordinary emojis, maybe a simple "thumbs up" or a "checkmark" :). But yes, I see no problem with emoticons too.

amWhy

@vitamind @Xander is too lazy to find and insert the appropriate emoticon, and is known for posting, in reply to some comments "thumbs up emoji" in its place.

Xander Henderson

@amWhy thumbs up emoji

amWhy

22:24

Hah! @XanderHenderson, I sort of thought you'd reply like that! lol!

Xander Henderson

Okay, I gots stuff to do. I think that I am gone for the night.

vitamin d

:'D

@amWhy@XanderHenderson Thanks for your replies.

amWhy

@vitamind Good question!, no problem!

@XanderHenderson Multiple choice test:

Which of the three sentences is correct?

(1) I got stuff to do.

(2) I gots stuff to do.

(3) I have things to do.

Xander Henderson

All of the above.

And now I am really gone.

amWhy

@XanderHenderson Hah! Say bye! See you!

18 mins ago, by amWhy

And, English just barely one over German, when in late 1700's, they were debating what the national language in the US should be.

^^^ Apparently, Researching a bit more, there is no official national language of the US, but the de facto language is English most frequently used. A lot of legislation introduced along the way, not all of it successful.

Are you going to take the bait, @Xander? No problem either way. You can revisit the comment later, if you're inclined.

Sebastiano

22:42

Good evening or good night to everybody.

@vitamind Hi, very kind :-)

Just for my question here: math.stackexchange.com/questions/4082914/…

amWhy

@Sebastiano Hello!

Sebastiano

@amWhy Hiiiiiiiiiii from the Sicily (Italy) :-)

amWhy

@Sebastiano Nice, you must be past midnight, your time?

Sebastiano

Just an help on the answer for my question...Why is it the final result $x=k\pi/3$?

@amWhy I am writing in $\LaTeX$ the steps of an exercise for my students. I'm going to bed in a bit. at 7:30 a.m. I'll have to wake up and get ready to go to work....and I am very tired. :-((((

amWhy

@Sebastiano You should ask Yves. If the answer leaves you unsatified, add a comment. In the future, you are not obligated to accept an answer, when it leaves you with questions. It's worth following up with the answerer, in comments below the answer.

Sebastiano

22:54

@amWhy I have remove the check mark but I thinked to have understood the reason of the solution. There is to Yves a comment if you see. For my opinion every answer with me are welcome. I clean my night bite for my teeth and go to sleep. I hope so many users will give me an answer. I always welcome everyone. Cordial greetings.

amWhy

@Sebastiano Wonderful. I understand. You strike me as a very gracious, respectful and kind person. Sometimes removing a check mark is seen by others deters others interested in answering the question. Good luck! Sleep well!

vitamin d

@Sebastiano Was writing an answer. Glad you could find the solution!

amWhy

@quid But it's only a brief discussion, and I do not have an appetite to sending them to trash. I just wanted to express concern, lest it continue in a long exchange. I should have commented to you elsewhere. Thanks for following up on my ping, which I missed until now. I was likely premature in addressing the matter.

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$Mathematics$ CURED