The Velodrome

Michael

05:57

I’ll have 7 bluetooth devices on the new bike O.O

(excluding the smartphone)

(excluding the smartwatch)

Criggie

that seems excessive.

I have.... zero

BT HRM and Phone and earpiece, but they're all on me not the bike

Michael

lights, bike computer, power meter, Di2 shifters and derailleurs

Erlkoenig

06:13

Lights with Bluetooth? Which ones?

Michael

Trek Flare

(didn’t buy them because of the bluetooth)

Erlkoenig

Do shifters and derailleur communicate internally with BT as well? Or is it something proprietary? Care to take them apart and check what microcontroller they're using? 🤣

Michael

good question, I don’t have a spectrum analyzer or software defined radio :(

I had assumed that the rear derailleur is a BLE Central Device and the shifters are BLE Peripheral Devices

(though the derailleur also acts as a peripheral device when you press the button, so you can connect to a smartphone)

Erlkoenig

Would be the only reliable Bluetooth device on the planet

I wonder why Noone has thought to sabotage opponent's bikes on pro races by forcing malicious gear shifts

Michael

weeeelll, the sister’s power meter once failed to connect at the world championships

the first and only time it happened

kind of suspicious now that you bring it up

;)

Erlkoenig

06:30

Remember that Jeep which could literally be remote-controlled via the internet, like an RC-car, because of terrible security? I'm looking forward to bikes doing the same

Michael

to be fair, as far as I’m aware the BLE security in BLE 5.0 is pretty good with a diffie hellmann key exchange for the pairing

(assuming manufacturers actually use it and don’t fall back to “legacy” pairing with a 4 digit pin which is trivial to brute force)

Erlkoenig

Wifi security is supposed to be good too - but said jeep was still totally vulnerable because they all had the same password (PSK)!

Rеnаud

07:05

@Michael You don't use the integration with Garmin? Or is it with ANT?

Controlling the light (and their battery status) from the bike computer seems to be a nice feature. I have to admit it weighted in my choice of lamps (Trek Ion), but unfortunately not yet supported by Wahoo

Michael

I use it and it’s actually nicer than I expected

but I bought the Flare + Ion 200 because I saw it in person in daylight and liked the size and the way it behaves (light output, pattern). I think it improves visibility a lot in daylight, especially when riding through shaded forests and the like. The ~5h battery runtime is a bit on the low side, would like more (even if it means 10g more weight)

Rеnаud

In case it interests you, some Blendr mounts are compatible with GoPro

Michael

one of these days I’ll build my own perfect lights :D

Rеnаud

So that you can mount them under the computer if your computer mount allows it

(and for once I make a lighter suggestion :-p)

using this one on the bike computer mount: trekbikes.com/fr/fr_FR/equipement/accessoires-pour-v%C3%A9lo/…

Michael

I have to look into a better mount, right now I’m using a self made one

how do I make that one work with the Garmin Aero mount?

Rеnаud

07:15

I don't know this one, I have his one: specialized.com/be/fr/…

with a GoPro mount under the bike's computer

(there are many mounts with the same layout, not an endorsement - and it requires a Spesh stem)

Michael

I have a normal stem

Rеnаud

you this mount? bike24.be/fr/produits/46739

Michael

yes, exactly

I screwed a piece of bent aluminium sheet to the underside and tied the rubber band mount of the Ion 200 to it. Works but it’s not pretty

Rеnаud

a google search of "garmin gopro adapter" returns only one reference from Canyon

but it looks like more an adapter that allows mounting a gopro instead of the computer

bike-components.de/en/K-EDGE/…

there many third party options that have the go pro mount (also QuadLock)

but many stem manufacturers have custom computer mounts (Trek, Scott, Zipp,...)

Michael

07:51

frame has arrived! Time for some puzzling :)

Erlkoenig

08:41

Awesome, what a nice puzzle to play with 😉

Michael

all the cables and hoses installed

only took 1 hour of fiddling

on the fork the lower bearing just sits against the naked carbon, is this normal?

Erlkoenig

Isn't there supposed to be some kind of "washer" that needs to be pressed in using a special tool?

"Crown race", to be installed with a "crown race setter"

Michael

yeah, I thought there should be some metal bearing racing kind of thing

Erlkoenig

("Gabelkonus")

Michael

checked the manual, looks like Rose doesn’t need one

Erlkoenig

08:55

Do they use a custom headset?

Michael

rosebikes.de/document/ROSE_XLITE_Frame_Details_V202207.pdf

Erlkoenig

Hmm, not 100% clear IMO

Rеnаud

Not clear for me as well. But it looks like the stem can potentially a custom mount for the computer/light.

what is the hole next to the bottom bracket (chainstay)?

Michael

it’s not a hole, it’s a round recess in the chainstay, I don’t really know what for

fits a 0.2€ coin perfectly

Erlkoenig

to make space for the crankset or cadence sensor mounted on the crankset?

Michael

09:08

yeah, maybe for a cadence sensor? My old XLite had some metal reinforcement in that area to protect the frame against dropped chains

but in this case it’s just a round recess

Rеnаud

if it's for a sensor, it should have some way to hold it, no? (bolt or clip)

Michael

09:19

glue? :D

maybe it’s to glue on a magnet? Are there crankset powermeters which need a magnet stuck to the frame?

gschenk

@Rеnаud I'm doing this with a sigma mount and a cateye G70 (only one of few beam shaping lights for hanging mount). There's a K-Edge universal mount that also has a GoPro bracket below.

Rеnаud

if it is meant for custom accessories, it's probably advertised on the webpage, I haven't seen such sensor elsewhere. The fun bike has a mount for a combined speed/cadence sensor in the chainstay for example, but it's mentioned on the product page. trekbikes.com/be/fr_BE/equipement/accessoires-pour-v%C3%A9lo/…

@gschenk Is the light meant to be mounted from the top? This kind of mount is a bit of a problem for stvzo lights where the lamp is supposed to be attached from the bottom.

Or you need a light mount that is not compliant for Michael: alltricks.com/F-41479-accessoires-electronique/…

gschenk

11:56

@Rеnаud yes, indeed. I found only lights by lezyne and cat eye that are meant to be mounted from top.

cateye.com/intl/products/headlights/HL-EL552G-RC

Erlkoenig

12:12

Is it just me or are so many bike lighs just plain ugly?

Rеnаud

@gschenk Thx, I realized afterwards I missed the "hanging mount" in your comment. But yes, the combination Svtzo/hanging mount seems quite hard (in forests, I found the cutout to be dangerous). Just curious, would it be allowed to have uncompliant lights in Germany for off-road use, and a "backup" compliant light?

@Erlkoenig Not you, and not limited to lights, but I would say that making something nice looking would require a minimum of integration, which is quite hard to do if want to make a universal accessory. Aesthetics is one of the reason I prefer a mount combined with the computer rather than something clamped on the handle bar.

Erlkoenig

12:27

Indeed, nicely integrated accessoirces like light, reflectors, computer would be nice... Some urban e-bikes have that

Rеnаud

Mudguards are in my top list from that point of view as well. I have the impression that if you want a gravel bike that looks nice with mudguards, the only option is a Canyon bike (with proprietary guards). For the other ones, even if they have the mounts, it's hard to find mudguard that look nice, that would not compromise tire clearance too much and sturdy enough for gravel use.

(and my dislike for clamped accessories also applies to SKS Speedrockers)

Erlkoenig

12:45

Yes indeed, there are some very few that look good but they're hard to find

Try to find a gravel bike that can legally be used in Germany and which doesn't lose parts when actually riding on gravel. Impossible. Thanks, bike industry

Rеnаud

Canyon Grail/Grizl?

Erlkoenig

Nope, technically illegal

That includes riding off-road, as the traffic law is even valid on fores paths

Even the Bergamont Grandurance, made by a German company, which even has a rack and dynamo lights, is still illegal as it lacks the mandatory reflectors and bell (although the latter is easily fixed of course)

Rеnаud

Wouldn't be the case where you'll receive these accessories in the box that comes with the bike?

(with a bell that can only clamp on 22.2mm/flat bars, of course)

Erlkoenig

They don't come with the bike, because they don't exist. There's zero (legal) reflectors on the market that don't fall off after riding 5m on gravel. And Schwalbe, also a German company, can't be bothered to make gravel, MTB or road tyres that have a reflective strip that would legally replace the reflectors

Rеnаud

13:08

and spoke reflectors (the ones that just go "around" the spoke)?

Erlkoenig

They fall off even quicker

Rеnаud

or something like this: bike-discount.de/media/image/ef/15/85/…

Erlkoenig

Even tried hot glue, but it disintegrates under UV light and dust, also looks horrific and is a giant mess

@Rеnаud Illegal as it isn't certified

Nobody really cares but it's still stupid that you can't really legally ride a sports bike

Rеnаud

and here the sport bikes are outside the legal definitions of sport bikes. The exception being endurance road bikes, and gravel bikes with double chainrings that would fall under the mountain bike definition.

Erlkoenig

13:24

haha great... If the law can't keep up with something as simple as a bicycle, makes you worry how it is supposed to regulate a complex society and economy

Michael come lately

15:53

Are there tricks to spoke tuning on tiny wheels? (Should I be asking this on the actual Q&A?)

DavidW

@Michaelcomelately Get a real bike? :D

gschenk

16:24

yay, three cheers for chatgpt sounding really smart:

> There are several outcomes and overview articles [...] Here are a few examples:

tell me more about the third one, got an abstract?

> I'm sorry for the misunderstanding, but as an AI developed by OpenAI, I don't have direct access to specific articles or their abstracts. The third article title I provided [...] was a hypothetical example of a type of article that might exist in the field [...]

It made up a list of completely plausible sounding articles that don't exist.

Erlkoenig

16:57

Or perhaps it didn't, who knows 😄

Erlkoenig

17:32

I once asked it to give a list of products with certain criteria. Some of the results didn't match the criteria, other results simply didn't exist...

Michael come lately

@DavidW I have a couple. But their wheels are true. It's the folder that has problems.

gschenk

18:51

Why are people so excited about it when it is so unreliable. It's often really hard to spot the rubbish cause it sounds so good.

Erlkoenig

21:34

Perfect for homework 🤣

Erlkoenig

22:28

Btw, saw someone transport their new Rose bike inside the cardboard box on top of a tiny Smart car... looked pretty funny 😄

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