The Velodrome

Andy P

00:24

@gschenk Yeah, i got a quote for one with Rival AXS but think it's just too much

@Criggie That's crazy. I'd expect someone your size to be drinking 750ml/hr even on a cool day

That's generally the problem with swimming. Finding a pool thats setup for swimming laps rather than a leisure pool.
And then once you find that pool you discover its block booked by clubs except at 6am and 10pm

@gschenk Me too. Absolutely 0 ability to pace myself in the pool swimming freestyle. Usually 3-4 lengths and then blow up. Think its a very technique orientated sport - get the technique right and suddenly you go much faster for half the effort

gschenk

01:24

It's not easy finding the right kind of paraffin wax for chains.

Criggie

@AndyP Not likely.

gschenk

Most stuff on Amazon is some oily stuff for candles or medical baths melting at low temps with all kinds of additives.

Ok, search for paraffin 58, or 5658, 58-60

That's high 'melting' point wax, that cannot have a high oil content or a mix with stearin.

Criggie

I didn't overthink it - I just got 5 kg of parraffiinn wax from a wholesaler. Don't add anything but a chain.

note - don't wax your master links - they don't need anything.

gschenk

Astonishing, there must be a sizeable niche market for candle making supplies.

Who on earth is making candles in the 21 century?

MaplePanda

02:55

@Criggie Why not? They function just like any other chain link once installed

@gschenk subscribers to the aromatherapy crowd I think

Criggie

03:24

@MaplePanda There's no bushing or roller in a master link - its in the chain-proper. Wax on the pin or clippy-bit just makes it harder to install.

MaplePanda

03:45

Fair point!

Erlkoenig

05:19

@DavidW Makes sense, thanks. We'll im not at a risk for overtraining I think 😁

@DavidW Well I live in a non-car-dependant city with historical layout, so there is a pool nearby 😄

@MaplePanda It's such a hipster sport 🤣

DavidW

05:45

@Erlkoenig Thinking about the people I know who have taken it up... I can't say you're completely wrong. :)

Erlkoenig

07:11

Me: "Ugh, the boulderers always talk about how sore they are" Also me: "So on this ride... On my weekend ride... So the bike is broken again..."

Nathan Knutson

@Erlkoenig I mean, it's verifiably fast within the circumsances it's made for.

Andy P

07:52

@Erlkoenig you broke the bike AGAIN?!

Erlkoenig

08:03

@AndyP Not right now but who knows what's going to happen 😅 New years resolution: Don't break the bike.

@NathanKnutson Sure, but in the context of road cycling the look is rather ... odd

Erlkoenig

11:14

How to time your training (e.g. HIIT) intervals when not using a headunit with integrated training programs? Stopwatch? Count seconds manually?

Andy P

11:55

Do you have any kind of modern head unit available?
Both my Garmins support workouts, but i never actually use them, i just have 'lap time' as one of my data fields and use the lap button

The Wahoo app on Android also supports laps, although data fields have no customisation = a bit clunky

Erlkoenig

@AndyP No, felt like it isn't worth it

@AndyP Yeah using an app is an option... if in doubt, write your own 🤣

DavidW

@Erlkoenig I count pedal strokes. If you have a cadence sensor it's simple arithmetic to convert to seconds.

Erlkoenig

@DavidW Hmm very clever, yes I have one

DavidW

12:19

From experience, you might want to do the math before you start your effort. It gets hard to do division after 20s at 120%. :D

Erlkoenig

Hihi, good idea...

Andy P

13:06

Hmmmm. dont fancy that on a 5x5 session.
lose count at 350 and have to start the interval over again :P

gschenk

If you do your hiit on a circuit you could also assign the distance between distinct landmarks or terrain features. When I tried to get into running I did that. I'm way too stupid to count steps or seconds while exerting myself.

During intensity phase I cannot even count from one number to the next. I'm glad when I even recognise a huge tree as a tree.

Andy P

yes, using landmarks/terrain works well too.
my 3x10/4x10 sessions are actually between 9:45-10:45 depending on power and wind condition. just ride to the top of the hill and turn around - close enough.
Want a shorter interval? Pick a shorter hill

gschenk

What I didn't like about hills is that downhill is zero power and my blood pressure drops close to fainting.

To keep some steady baseline power I'd have to drag brakes.

Erlkoenig

Maybe I should do repetitions along the regatta course, which is perfectly straight, level, freshly paved, no obstacles. The rowers will think I'm mad.

Andy P

@gschenk If i'm ever going that hard i'm probably going to choose to do the workout indoor anyway. Most likely any interval under 2 minutes long i'm going to choose to do indoor

@Erlkoenig Probably not. They are doing exactly the same thing - just in a boat not on a bike

Erlkoenig

13:17

Good point...

2.23km length, good for repetitions?

Sometimes their trainers ride road bikes alongside the rowers :D

Andy P

Depends on the interval you want to do.
It's surely going to be enough for intervals under 2mins.

DavidW

13:51

Is an interval longer than 2 minutes really an interval? I haven't done a huge amount of reading, but the trainers I've had have all used 30-90s intervals at least 90% of the time.

(For what they've called "interval training" I mean.)

Andy P

I wouldnt classify anything over 2mins as HIIT for sure.
But they are still intervals

gschenk

15:00

I'm thinking about using hexagonal boron nitride instead of MoS2 for chain waxing. That stuff is so expensive though.

MoS2 is probably better in any property, but being black and causing more messy residue. It's also not possible to see how dirty the wax is when re-using it. Otoh when the wax is still grey, it shows that the MoS2 is still mixed in. It's fine particle size should prevent it from sedimentation.

Andy P

15:29

any reason for mixing your own rather than just buying molten speed wax?

gschenk

MSW includes PTFE.

If I can avoid it, I try to avoid that.

Erlkoenig

For environmental reasons?

Andy P

How about the silica version then? Their magic ingredient is tungsten disulphide which they claim is better than PTFE or MoS2.
Silica version can also be 'topped up' with their drip version rather than rewaxing all the time

gschenk

costs.

Andy P

haha, fair. it is a bit spendy!

gschenk

15:35

topping off works with sqirt as well.

Usually re-waxing is less work than topping off.

the stuff to top off has a higher oil content and is thus more gooey.

BTW, that's why i don't think the assiduous cleaning of chains is all that important. Grease rests will break down, with the oils going into sollution in the wax and the soaps getting rubbed off.

Several of the hot wax bath products have a pretty high oil content.

Zero Friction were quite particular about having high quality paraffin with low oil content. I think that might still be relevant to retain less dust and grit.

High oil content might help with application though and have advantages since the application process is not as perfect as Zero Friction's.

by the way...

TIL: Squirt is 25% slack wax 70% water

slack wax is a paraffin pre-cursor, with much higher oil content >5%

(cause from <=5% it's called paraffin)

If you hear waxed chains are still gooey, Squirt (and probably smoove) is not the same as MSW with <0.5% oil.

Also, it won't be a problem to switch between Squirt winter and regular Squirt.

Andy P

15:53

From what i've read, gooey with squirt usually means the chain wasnt cleaned well enough to begin with.

gschenk

Lastly, for mostly wet rides, it might be a good idea to use a paraffin wax + paraffin oil mix. With around 5% to 10% oil content.

@AndyP yes, and no. residual oil will just dissolve in squirt and it gets more gooey.

However, the stuff is never as hard as, for example, MSW is.

so no flaking off, but sticking to jockey wheels.

I did a pretty good clean with white spirits, then denaturated alcohol, then squirt in a ziplock bag in a 25C water bath.

(Which got me three times the mileage than just dripping it onto the chain)

But I still have a lot of residue on jockey wheels. That comes mostly from spinning the chain while applying the stuff. It takes about a day or two for the water to evaporate and harden.

Andy P

@gschenk Warming the squirt in a ziplock bag seems like it would help with the reported issue that it doesnt penetrate well. Good idea

gschenk

But since you have to spin your drivetrain while applying it, you get the fresh squirt goo everywhere.

@AndyP that's why I did it.

I just read reports the emulsion does break down and it coagulates when heated. No good data on temperature though. That's why I kept temperature at a warm room temp.

@AndyP forget applying it at less than 18C or on a cold chain.

Squirt is for the summer or working in your living room.

Well, for you it's living room all year round. /duck

Andy P

lol, yeah, i'd have 3 viable days per year for outdoor application :D

gschenk

@AndyP it's almost the same process as hot waxing. So it's a quarter of the mileage for four times the cost.

Andy P

16:07

Yeah, i decided considering the hassle and my general dislike of maintenance the only way i'm ever waxing is if someone else is doing it for me.
I'm going to experiment with silica synergetic this season.
A seriously expensive little bottle, but in theory at least very long lasting

Criggie

18:35

@Erlkoenig use the old technique of "smash it till you can't" and that's one interval.

@gschenk Yeah - don't oil a waxed chain unless its urgent, and expect to strip it right back before the next waxing.

Erlkoenig

@Criggie I suppose there's a good chance that precise timing isn't much better?

Criggie

nah its all about pushing your limits

speaking of limits - $4k

trademe.co.nz/a/marketplace/sports/cycling/other-bikes/listing/…

needs "minor fibreglass repair"

2400 euro or 2500 USD. Not too bad, but the repair work could easily double that.

Erlkoenig

81 gears?!

Criggie

19:19

heh seems to be a triple crankset and 9 speed cassette and 3 speed IGH.

probably more than one ever needs TBH

DavidW

@Erlkoenig Well, some kind of timing is important, because you want to scale your recovery to your effort based on your goal.

Erlkoenig

@Criggie Yes pretty crazy!

@DavidW Some HIIT continuously does longer effort phases with shorter recovery phases?

DavidW

Depending on what system we're training and how hard the efforts, we've done anywhere from .75x to 2x recovery.

@Erlkoenig Yes. I don't remember what we we're training, but we've done 60s at 110 with 40s recovery, times 4, followed by 4 45s with 30s recovery.

3 or 4 min to recover and repeat.

Where the "recovery" intervals are at 90%, of course.

(Apologies for the autocorrect errors, I'm stuck here on my phone.)

Erlkoenig

19:35

Well, optimizing all those numbers sounds like way overkill for a hobby rider :o]

DavidW

That's why I've always looked for trainers/coaches who love figuring out all the numbers for me.

Erlkoenig

That's even more overkill ;-)

DavidW

20:01

I dunno. I'm no more than a hobby rider myself, but a weekly session with a good trainer has had a noticeable improvement in my spring riding form. Seems worth it to me...

It's the difference between hanging on someone's wheel halfway through a ride and accidentally riding off the front.

Erlkoenig

The trainer would probably laugh at my feeble attempt at sports

DavidW

20:15

@Erlkoenig I thought you rode a bike? That pretty much immediately puts you in the top half of the population in fitness.

Erlkoenig

20:28

@DavidW Gravel bike :) Still, I feel that most hobby riders do more training

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