Discussion between MARamezani and User31782

MARamezani

13:20

@user31782, "Do you even listen to rock music?" is of very negative connotation.

It's humiliating the "you", if you know what I mean.

@user103816 You should be able to post now.

user31782

Perhaps I understand what you are trying to say. "Do you even listen to rock music?" is it about one-time action or every-day type action.

MARamezani

@user31782 if you want, we can chat here or in the comment-continual chat.

"Do you even listen to rock music?" is generally referring to a continuous action.

user31782

We should chat here and then post the most useful information that would come out of our discussion on the main site in the form of answer or question.

MARamezani

Right.

"Do you even listen to rock music?" is mainly about a one time action.

user31782

And does, "Do you even listen to yourself" mean continues action or one time. Or does it depend upon the context.

MARamezani

13:31

Even these assumptions need context.

In this case, it's more like a "one-time" action.

But as I said, you can flag that comment.

user31782

In my mother language the meaning doesn't need context.

We have two different sentences for continues and one-time action.

MARamezani

You know, there are really important things to consider.

First, let's not make sure he was considering your sentence as idiotic.

Maybe, he was just referring to the philosophical phrase, as I mentioned in my answer.

Or maybe, he was attacking you (or trying to, let me explain)

user31782

I've flagged that comment as not-constructive. I guess he was trying to humiliate me. But I'm not sure because I do not know English very much.

MARamezani

Your flag can be helpful actually.

I asked a native, and she said that this kind of concept is really dependent on the impression you get from it.

user31782

I have faced such comments many times because I'm usually opposite to the majority. This is the reason I had to anonymyze myself. People remembered me.

I'd take it humiliating if it means a continues action.

MARamezani

13:38

I'm a calm person, and I don't get bothered by such things too much.

You may get, and the moderator that's looking at your flag may too!

In your case, it's logical to think that he meant to humiliate you.

user31782

Technically he is right that classical mechanics is not a well known branch of mathematics, but it is still a part of mathematics because I have seen it as a compulsory subject in BA Math.

What matters to me whether he meant a continues action or one-time.

MARamezani

You may explain that to him.

Let me take a better look at that.

user31782

It is true that I didn't write that comment carefully, that is didn't listened to myself one-time. But his sentence gives me a feeling that he meant "I never listen to myself".

MARamezani

I see:

I searched and found two recent mechanics questions which got migrated to Phys.SE, 1 and 2. Note that problem solving questions aren't allowed on Phys.SE, only conceptual questions are. So homwork questions migrated from MSE can be closed there. — user103816 yesterday

Then which is answered by:

@user103816 These two aren't math questions at all... By the way, 10k users can check the list of recently migrated questions here. I count six questions migrated to Phys.SE in February. Only one of them had some amount of mathematical content, and in that case the OP requested themselves for the question to be migrated. — Najib Idrissi yesterday

You then made a mistake (no offence):

@NajibIdrissi Both of them are classical mechanics questions. Classical Mechanics is a well known field of Mathematics. — user103816 yesterday

And he replied:

"Classical Mechanics is a well known field of Mathematics." Do you even listen to yourself...? — Najib Idrissi 22 hours ago

In a continuity to your reply (and so as it seems that you've been having a discussion, rather than a bare sentence and a bare reply) he said: "Do you even...?"

So I get doubtful about the fact that he wanted to attack you.

user31782

What is the meaning of "I get doubtful about their winning the match". Does it mean that they are more likely to win or more likely to lose.

MARamezani

13:53

More likely to lose, especially if someone mentioned their winning before.

Notice "get".

user31782

See, my English is not strong. I understand things literally. Do you mean: "You believe he didn't try to attack me" or "You believe he tried to attack me".

MARamezani

He didn't want to attack you, and as he's nonnative (his name suggests that), I'd say he just used a bad combination of words.

user31782

Ok, so his intentions were not to attack me but the phrase he chosen has negative cannonation.

MARamezani

I'm nonnative too! But I get in contact with the natives a lot.

@user31782 Yes.

It's as if he was surprised.

Rather than exasperated.

user31782

I don't think he is not native. I've seen him using fluent English. Even if he is non-native he knows what he writes, because he listens to himself :p

MARamezani

14:01

"Najib" isn't a username a native would choose, if you ask me. :)

In fact, I think he's Iranian.

Like me.

user31782

He might be raised upon in an English country.

MARamezani

His name would perfectly render to نجیب ادریسی in Persian.

Maybe.

user31782

Let's leave this topic. Whatever he meant is upto him. These things keep happening. I do not believe in their new moderators either. Now, please explain me when these type of sentences are continues and when are they about one-time actions.

MARamezani

Being either continuous or one-time is a crude rule of determining if something was offensive or not. It just comes with experience. :P

user31782

Not about the offensive issue. I want to know in general.

LEt me think of some sentences.

How do we determine whether the sentence meant to be about continues or one time action. E.g. "Don't you even laugh" It appears to me a continues type question, is it?

English is a very weak language. It is too much ambiguous.

MARamezani

14:10

Some consider ambiguity to be a beauty.

Don't you even laugh? sounds wierd to me.

Especially even

Since "laughing" is either happening or not happening.

user31782

By the way my flag has been declined, as I told you. These kind of comments are allowed there for high-rep users.

I can show you by experiment.

MARamezani

I myself hesitate when it gets to reporting a bad deed of a high rep user.

user31782

I'll comment there: "@Najib _ These two aren't math questions at all..._ do you ever listen to yourself" and the comment will be delted by the mods.

MARamezani

Btw, usage of "even" in "even laugh?" isn't really moral, if not ungrammatical (for some obsolete rule)

:)

user31782

What about "He doesn't even speak about Rock music".

MARamezani

14:15

Makes sense if there's emphasis on "speak".

user31782

And "He doesn't even laugh, when I joke", and "He doesn't even smile, when I joke".

MARamezani

They make sense, because of the emphasis on "laugh" and "smile".

But when you question laugh with even, the "default" emphasis is considered to be on "even", because of the inherent meaning of the word.

user31782

Then why is "Don't you even laugh" incorrect? Or "Don't you even laugh, when someone jokes"

MARamezani

"Don't you even laugh when someone jokes?" (Omit the comma) is perfectly sensible, because the emphasis does go on "laugh", again.

It means that "At least do laugh when someone jokes."

user31782

If I give emphasis on 'laugh' in "Don't you even laugh", would it be correct?

MARamezani

14:22

If you don't bring the subordinate clause (i.e.: when someone jokes), the sentence will sound as if you're talking about the normal everyday routine, so it won't make sense. But, there is the possibility that "when someone jokes" gets omitted (ellipsis), and then that would be right.

By "normal everyday routine" I mean "in a normal condition".

Like "don't you even laugh (spontaneously) ?" Which is funnily not sensible.

user31782

Thats what I meant initially. Consider this scenario, I met a person in the college whom I havenever seen laughing. Then one day I ask him, why are you this way? "Don't you even laugh"

MARamezani

Oh! :)

user31782

Is it correct?

MARamezani

Yes!

But it's better if you make use of "don't you ever laugh?"

That would represent the implication way better.

user103816

But in that sentence they use 'ever' not 'even'.

I still don't get when these type of sentence convey one-time action. Can you give an example where "Don't you even xyz" conveys one-time action.

MARamezani

14:29

"Ever" is better than "even". Why do you even want to use "even" a lot? :)

"Don't you even try to be nice?"

user103816

'Even' gives the emphasis, like atleast.

Because 'even' gives the correct meaning which is to be intended.

MARamezani

In the case of meeting a college friend "ever" is better.

user103816

"don't you ever try to be nice" is different from "don't you even try to be nice"

MARamezani

They both refer to a one time action, rather than a continuous one.

Still, for all of this, more context is the decider.

user103816

You mean to say that 'even' has negative cannonation, as compared to 'ever'.

MARamezani

14:34

Possible.

user103816

'ever' and 'even' are completely different words. I don't get how they mean the same thing.

'even' means something like 'at least' and 'ever' means something like 'at least one-time'.

MARamezani

Not the same things, yes.

How does that affect their connotation difference comparability?

user103816

"don't you ever try to be nice" = "Why don't you try to be nice at least for one time". And "don't you even try to be nice" = "You speak very bluntly, why don't you at least try to be nice"

MARamezani

So?

user103816

They are different.

MARamezani

14:39

Yes.

user103816

"don't you even try to be nice" = "You speak very bluntly, why don't you at least try to be nice for all time"

"don't you ever try to be nice" = "Why don't you try to be nice at least for one time

MARamezani

No, it's more feasible for it to be "for once".

user103816

So "Don't you even xyz" is one-time for some specific xyz and continues for some specific xyz?

MARamezani

It depends on the action we're talking about.

user103816

I met a person in the college whom I havenever seen laughing. Then one day I ask him, why are you this way? "Don't you even laugh" = "You are very sad, why don't you laugh every day(or for one day?)

MARamezani

14:46

You can't just say that for time.

Don't translate stuff to your language.

user103816

I think the translation was wrong, let me think.

MARamezani

Don't translate stuff to your language.

user103816

Even and ever do not have literal meanings here.

They are merely used for emphasis.

Perhaps they do have.

I can't understand it. I'll wait for some purely native speaker who knows only English to explain me. I am going to add this into the question.

MARamezani

Alright. But I repeat: Don't translate stuff to your language.

user103816

No I am not doing this.

I am trying to understand the difference between the use of 'even' and ever'. They give different sense to the sentence.

"Don't you ever bath", here 'ever' conveys a specific sense. It is well known that everyone should bath and they do bath. I should bath everyday. If I tell someone that I never bath, he'd reply "Don't you ever bath! WTF!. ?He can't use "Don't you **even ** bath".

Perhaps he can use "Don't you even bath". But to me there is a difference b/w the sense it conveys-- which I can't explain in English. I think we should stop chatting and add these particular points on main site.

MARamezani

15:10

Sorry I was eating lunch.

"Even" and "ever" are always different.

@user103816 Feel free to add! I'm too lazy to do it. :)

user103816

Do you remember anything else which came from our discussion? I remember, 1) use of ever and even. 2) one-time or continues.

MARamezani

Btw, it's "continuous."

user103816

You mean spelling, ah my bad.

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♦ Discussion between MARamezani and Use…