The Whiteboard

Thomas Owens

7:00 PM

@KitZ.Fox I think it's the mailing list of all employees plus selected key contractors.

Ampt

this big
\______________________________________O______________________________________/

Aaron Hall

Well, someone will be fired, probably quietly.

Kit Z. Fox

But WHY!? When do you ever need that except to make awful reply-all things.

Thomas Owens

OMFG.

user114359

@KitZ.Fox lists like that are great for when IT needs to send a notice about a network issue, or HR needs to tell people about new policies. But they should be restricted.

Thomas Owens

7:01 PM

Someone just sent a GIANT PICTURE OF TAYLOR SWIFT.

> Taylor Swift doesn’t enjoy the “reply all” to this spam.

Kit Z. Fox

bwahahahahaha!

Thomas Owens

It is in my profile, you know.

Kit Z. Fox

@Snowman Then IT and HR should be the only ones with access to the list. Or the list should be it-outagenotices or something. reply-all-friday!

I'm just appalled. That's all.

user114359

4 mins ago, by Thomas Owens

@StevenBurnap This happened before. There's supposed to be a restriction. There wasn't, and now there isn't again.

Kit Z. Fox

Right. Sorry. Just so appalled.

So appalled that I forgot to send this bill to a customer.

user114359

7:03 PM

@KitZ.Fox after a while it stops being funny

Kit Z. Fox

@AaronHall's avatar is partially corrupted for me, but only at one particular size.

Aaron Hall

You should probably delete the references to this later...

@KitZ.Fox yeah, I know, I'll fix it maybe this weekend by trying to upload another.

I think they blame imgur or somesuch.

Kit Z. Fox

Oh. Phew. I thought it was just me.

Ampt

I am far too out of it for this.

Kit Z. Fox

Are you OK, @Ampt?

Thomas Owens

7:07 PM

Oh, there's Bill Lundberg.

Aaron Hall

too quick!!

user41796

@AshleyNunn - because that describes you to a T

user41796

Or .... maybe not.

Aaron Hall

You know, you room owners could set up a slack channel if you want to discuss stuff the rest of us can't see. Otherwise it's kinda rude to the rest of the people here - like whispering in front of people.

2

user15026

@GlenH7 I just....I don't even know.

Ampt

7:09 PM

@AaronHall I tried to link to the Should I blame cacheing site but fucked up four times

user41796

@AaronHall Meh, it's all part of the mandatory hazing

Ampt

you'll have to forgive me for deleting it

user41796

@AshleyNunn I used to work retail and fast food in previous lives. That really drove home to me that there's no way to make some people in this world happy. So I learned to stop caring about their opinion and try to let it go

user114359

@AaronHall it's not so much whether you or other regulars can see it, more the permanence. It is possible to link to chat so anyone can read stuff.

Ixrec

and you have a finite amount of time to delete things

Aaron Hall

7:11 PM

Yeah, well you can wait a minute to delete it.

user114359

I normally do

user15026

@GlenH7 Yeah, I know, it just got to me because I was trying to help and it didn't go well.

Aaron Hall

at least count to ten.

user41796

I get that it still stings and hurts, but in reality that person was the one who has the problem. Blaming someone else for not meeting their unrealistic expectations isn't that impressive in my book

Ixrec

personally, I find it's very rare for a message to get deleted before I can read it unless I wasn't even in the chat room when it got posted

Ampt

7:12 PM

@AaronHall if I didn't want you to see it, I wouldn't say it in here at all. It's the fact that this is public and everything is logged that I don't like.

I could go back and read every message you read that you didn't delete

user41796

yesterday, by DeliriousSyntax

I'd hate to have to pay for a doxing site to get his email to message him but if that is what it takes

Aaron Hall

I know how it works

user41796

@AaronHall - it's comments like that one that cause us to over-delete things

user15026

@GlenH7 Yeah, I am just trying to breathe through things and go on but this one shook me for some reason.

Ixrec

@GlenH7 I remember very nearly suggesting he might want to delete that back when he said it

user114359

7:14 PM

@Ampt this is why I never mention my employer by name, even if I delete the comment. I want no link there for anyone to follow.

user41796

@AshleyNunn If you can, take a walk and take some deep breaths. Everyone gets rattled now and then. I get how you're feeling, and it's okay - perfectly normal.

Ampt

@AshleyNunn customers are dickwads, especially the cheap ones who don't pay anything

user41796

@Ixrec So someone in blue who was already in a foul mood didn't suspend them for it? :-P

Aaron Hall

well a mod can go back and delete things at any time, right? so if you do let something regrettable slip, you have recourse.

Ampt

yeah, but then I need a mod to go in and do it

Ixrec

7:15 PM

@AaronHall this recourse is used surprisingly often

Ampt

which is rather inconvenient for everyone involved

Aaron Hall

I'm not surprised.

user41796

@Ampt And we're notoriously bad at hitting the right comment... :-(

Aaron Hall

ampt, don't forget to delete... :)

Ampt

besides, if we switched to a slack just because we wanted private convos, the activity level in here would likely drop fairly rapidly...

user15026

7:17 PM

@GlenH7 Yeah, going to take a moment because I'm no good right now.

Aaron Hall

At what point do you give up on a process?

user41796

Say hello to the little ducklings if they're around

psr

@RobertHarvey They "went dark". It was a dark time, where the masses huddled in fear without the light of automated mass government surveillance to guide them, and prayed for a day when their voices could be heard - whenever they spoke out loud.

Ixrec

almost nothing actually got deleted in the past several minutes, what started all this again?

user15026

@Ixrec Me deleting a message

Ampt

7:18 PM

I thought it was me?

Aaron Hall

Tableau's format takes forever to create because of their compression algorithms.

Ampt

oh it was you

whoops

user15026

@GlenH7 I think I will go past the park when I go home tonight. I like the ducks.

Ixrec

wow, that wasn't even a message worth complaining about not being able to finish

:28324474 that one was a bit fast

user41796

@Ixrec intentionally so, I'm afraid...

Ampt

7:19 PM

troll

user41796

But really, @Snowman why call people out like that...

user41796

:-)

Aaron Hall

But I can see my memory usage slowly declining, so I assume it's still working...

user114359

@GlenH7 because I am cold and heartless, by definition.

user41796

You have to wonder how I could forget that.

Ixrec

7:21 PM

at least you're higher resolution than that other snowman

user41796

Am I the only one who wants the ~~fake~~ other snowman to change his user handle?

durron597

we have two snowmen now?

user41796

@durron597 the imposter

user41796

to be fair, there's another but in name only

durron597

@GlenH7 Did you know that Matt the SO mod is not 1st or even second in SO rep of all users named Matt?

I sort of wondered if some of the people voting for him thought they were voting for one of the other Matts

user41796

7:27 PM

I think he would be well within his rights as a mod to suspend the higher rep'd Matts until his rep exceeded theirs.

Aaron Hall

How do I keep a process from using virtual memory?

durron597

@GlenH7 might take a little while in the case of the first place Matt.

user41796

'cause really, what else is the diamond for?

durron597

@AaronHall uh, you don't.

user114359

@AaronHall all memory is virtual now

durron597

7:28 PM

you could buy an SSD if you're concerned about disk write speed

Aaron Hall

those answers are no good.

user114359

if you mean "cannot page to disk" then you can configure that in the OS, but it is all or nothing

user41796

@AaronHall get rid of the swap space. ;-)

durron597

@Snowman this

user114359

if you have no swap space, the OS cannot swap. But modern architectures all have a virtual address space.

user41796

7:29 PM

@Snowman swap is what's killing him, I'd bet

user41796

In a previous life, I setup a farm of servers without any swap space

Aaron Hall

yeah, I know how to tune swappiness on Linux, but I don't want to mess with the OS or unrelated processes, I just want to restrict a single process (and children) to using RAM.

user114359

and you cannot have one process unable to swap but everything else can, as far as I know

user41796

At first the sys admin was against the idea. Then I pointed out how much physical memory the systems had

user114359

@AaronHall consider what would happen without swap. OOM and dead processes

Ixrec

7:30 PM

the real question is why is the OS keeping your process in only-virtual memory when you think it needs to be in real memory

user41796

@Snowman correct, as it's an implementation detail that the OS obscures to the requesting applications

user114359

if swap is killing performance, you need more physical RAM

Ixrec

^

Aaron Hall

I agree

but my users may not have additional RAM, and they won't have all day while Tableau aggressively compresses their data.

user114359

Also keep in mind that in Linux, all memory is always in use. There was a recent question on U&L or AskUbuntu about it. There is a background process that owns the memory and releases it as "real" processes need it.

user41796

7:31 PM

@AaronHall use less data?

Aaron Hall

And my desktop users will be on Windows.

user41796

@Snowman I had forgotten about that, but yes, that's true

user114359

@AaronHall is there a way to change how the algorithm works? Maybe crunch less data at a time? This avoids load -> page -> unpage

Aaron Hall

Which is why I develop on Windows and then run dev batches on Linux.

user41796

I don't think Windows uses the same model though

user114359

7:32 PM

@GlenH7 I don't think so either

Aaron Hall

@Snowman Tableau's SDK is an impenetrable black box that their license prohibits us from reverse engineering, so I'm speculating about the behavior - however, I'm about 90% sure I'm right.

Ixrec

again, do we actually know that Aaron's program would benefit from having some special anti-swap protection on these client machines? it's very likely the real problem lies elsewhere and swapping less would at most make it worse somehow

user41796

@Ixrec No, we don't know that. Feeding it more RAM is more easily accomplished than messing with the abstractions we're promised regarding the memory layer.

Ixrec

there are profilers that can tell you how much time you're spending on swapping, right?

user41796

I think so, yes

Aaron Hall

7:35 PM

on a call, BRB

user41796

At a minimum, windows resource monitor can track that

Thomas Owens

We have crossed the 200 email line now.

user114359

@GlenH7 Linux has monitors for this too, since he is developing there

enderland

@ThomasOwens wow

user15026

@ThomasOwens Holy cow.

enderland

7:39 PM

@Ampt this is what I ended up using: mvn clean install && time mvn -q exec:java

Kit Z. Fox

hugs @AshleyNunn Here is some nuzzling to cheer you.

Aaron Hall

I'm pretty sure "System Commit" means including Swap.

user15026

@KitZ.Fox That is a thing that is always much appreciated.

enderland

@AaronHall love the drawing :D

Aaron Hall

does it help at all?

enderland

7:54 PM

I wasn't following enough earlier

Aaron Hall

The idea that it's steadily compressing data makes sense, right?

user114359

The worst part about working from home is according to my cats, it is always time to eat and they let me know constantly.

Aaron Hall

They're just bored, tell them to go play outside or write a letter.

Ampt

@enderland timing it too?

enderland

@Ampt I found a bug in the SDK I'm using related to a timeout problem :)

Ampt

7:57 PM

interesting

enderland

now to see if I can magically put this all in a docker container and have it work. lol

user114359

@AaronHall normally they just engage in their favorite pastime, licking every square inch of their bodies.

Aaron Hall

Buy a hamster, put it in an exercise ball, get some duct-tape glue on the lid so it won't fall off, and let the cats play with it? Upside is hamsters won't ask you to feed them - but you do have to clean the cages...

BarryTheHatchet

hello from Chicago

checked in and now I have no idea what to do

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet How's the 'con?

BarryTheHatchet

8:08 PM

@GlenH7 Doesn't start til tomorrow so

even then the stuff I want to see is Sat & Sun

user41796

Do you like pizza?

BarryTheHatchet

was thinking of maybe strolling around the city tomorrow

but apparently it's only 3pm today so like what to do what to do

sure who doesn't

user41796

Search for "http://www.loumalnatis.com/locations"

user41796

Sooo good.

user41796

If you have a car, driving along the lake is gorgeous

BarryTheHatchet

8:09 PM

no results

Aaron Hall

@BarryTheHatchet see my quandary and contribute a few brain cells to it.

BarryTheHatchet

ok malnati :)

@AaronHall I think I've killed all my brain cells today

bearing in mind I still haven't slept, really

user41796

Helps to type correctly. :-(

Aaron Hall

good, your creative juices must be flowing

BarryTheHatchet

and it wasn't the most stress-free transit tbh

user41796

8:10 PM

Stay out of rush hour traffic then, it's crazy

Aaron Hall

just the thing to relax, a high level computer question

BarryTheHatchet

@GlenH7 sadly not

user41796

What part of town are you in? presumably not downtown

BarryTheHatchet

I'm going to try to stay in the hotel aside from voyages tomorrow

@GlenH7 McCormick Place

user41796

You're right on the lake then. Have a walk up to Soldier field

user41796

8:12 PM

The Shedd Aquarium is supposed to be amazing too

BarryTheHatchet

hmm ok

yeah that's only like a k away

user41796

Yeah, they're both very close to you

user41796

I have some good memories of cruising along Lake Shore Dr, which you're right next to

user114359

@BarryTheHatchet do American stuff like eat cheeseburgers.

2

Thomas Owens

@Snowman STOP THAT EDITING.

Right now.

user41796

8:15 PM

There's the harbor right next to you as well, if you enjoy watching boats

Thomas Owens

Cut it out.

user41796

@ThomasOwens Careful. That snowman may be packing.

user114359

@ThomasOwens Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope

BarryTheHatchet

@Snowman lol

user41796

@Snowman - aggressive cats?

Ampt

8:17 PM

@BarryTheHatchet You're in chicago?

Shut the front door

user41796

@Ampt too late

Ampt

ugh he's already here isn't he?

@BarryTheHatchet Well this City ain't big enough for the both of us. Pushes 10 gallon hat up

user41796

@Snowman - Yikes.

Ampt

you live in detroit or something?

BarryTheHatchet

@Ampt uh oh

user41796

8:20 PM

@BarryTheHatchet - look on the bright side, booze is cheaper here too

user114359

Pretty much everything is cheaper here, thanks to not having VAT.

Ampt

@BarryTheHatchet aha, figured out why you're here.

user41796

@Ampt - Besides Malnatis' where else would you recommend?

BarryTheHatchet

@GlenH7 oh that reminds me, need to find the hotel bars

@Ampt oh god

user114359

@BarryTheHatchet Chicago Bulls are playing at home this evening

user41796

8:23 PM

@BarryTheHatchet I'd think that you'd have quite a few solid choices to pick from nearby

BarryTheHatchet

main lounge opens at 11am yay

screw it I've had a hard day!

pint (ish) then walk

user41796

Giordano's is the other place I'm thinking of for deep dish pizza

BarryTheHatchet

then dinner (I'll do Malnati's tomorrow if I can as that's when I'll be downtown)

user41796

Granted, it's a holy war between the two establishments

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet They deliver too. :-)

BarryTheHatchet

8:27 PM

noticing a distinct lack of fry-up on the breakfast menu

user41796

Goose Island is a great local brewery there

BarryTheHatchet

@GlenH7 is it acceptable to get delivered to a hotel room?! especially a hotel with restaurants

Thomas Owens

@GlenH7 I <3 Goose Island.

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet pffft. You just need to ask

Thomas Owens

Bourbon County Stout and it's variants FTW.

BarryTheHatchet

8:28 PM

@GlenH7 I asked at a hotel in the UK once and I got really dirty looks from everyone around me. never doing that again

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet Malnatis is famous enough that yes, they'll grant the exception

BarryTheHatchet

hm

maybe I'll ask when I'm drunk

user41796

Literally the world's best deep dish pizza

user41796

As in you're foolish to pass on the chance of trying it.

user114359

@GlenH7 Chicago-style pizza is phenomenal.

BarryTheHatchet

8:30 PM

@GlenH7 well I was gonna sit in tomorrow maybe

user41796

I have a friend here who grew up in chitown. She's ecstatic whenever she gets malnatis shipped in

BarryTheHatchet

still need to work out exactly what I'm doing. I've almost got my schedule for the weekend worked out but tomorrow's a bit of a wildcard. I don't want to miss everything going on downstairs even though the stuff I really came for isn't until Sat

lots of overlaps even then sadly

user41796

chicago has lots of awesome temptations

user114359

Of all the U.S. cities I have been to, Chicago and NYC are probably the most fun with the most stuff to do

user41796

I haven't properly been to NYC yet. Something I'd like to do

whatsisname

8:32 PM

yeah going to chicago without getting some pizza if you never have is a mistake

and having food delivered to hotel rooms is pretty standard practice

just don't go to potbelly

psr

@BarryTheHatchet But do you want to avoid dirty looks or do you want to eat deep dish pizza?

user41796

@whatsisname really? I like the ones that are out my way

BarryTheHatchet

@whatsisname wow

Ampt

Goose Island's 312 is a staple around here

BarryTheHatchet

@psr to be fair I was slightly more concerned about it that time as I was there on business and the hotel knows our company very well

whatsisname

8:35 PM

@GlenH7: It's more the fact that its a chain and it doesn't represent the essence of the city

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet definitely so for not-so-upscale hotels. Less so for the upscale places. But again, malnatis is a city treasure. No one would give you shit about it. And if they did, look at them funny and point out it's a once in a lifetime opportunity.

BarryTheHatchet

since (as it turned out, and as I'd expected) (in the UK at least) it's considered pretty bloody rude to consume outside food in a hotel with a restaurant (in fact they nowadays post explicit notices not to do it) I didn't want that to get back to bosses

whatsisname

why is that a wow

user41796

@whatsisname I can see that

whatsisname

isn't pretty much being alive considered rude in the UK though

BarryTheHatchet

8:36 PM

@GlenH7 ok well anyway I'll try for an early dinner there tomorrow if I can find it. and if I can't or it's too busy or I cba then I may try delivery

Ampt

@BarryTheHatchet never heard of that around here

BarryTheHatchet

@whatsisname :D

user114359

@BarryTheHatchet when I travel in the U.S. I regularly bring outside food into hotels. Nobody cares.

BarryTheHatchet

~~here~~ at home it's like bringing a hip flask into a pub. or a packed lunch into a restaurant. you just don't do it

psr

@BarryTheHatchet In the U.S. being rude as a tourist is a constitutional right.

user114359

8:37 PM

@BarryTheHatchet and don't worry about being rude. We Americans are almost as bad as the French, we are naturally rude. You'll fit right in.

BarryTheHatchet

first thing's first though I need some dolla - ran out of time to get cash at airport derp

whatsisname

most hotels the restaurants are not 1:1 affiliated, and often they aren't exclusively for hotel guests either

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet There's one about a km North of you

whatsisname

us americans aren't necessarily rude, but there is nothing rude about bringing food to a hotel room

BarryTheHatchet

@GlenH7 more like 2 if it's the one I think you mean

user41796

8:39 PM

yeah, you're right

BarryTheHatchet

still walkable

user41796

Definitely

BarryTheHatchet

although I've noticed your roads don't tend to allow for the walking option

user41796

If you catch the aquarium, it's in that general directin

BarryTheHatchet

I remember that from NJ too

user41796

8:40 PM

Should be plenty of paths by the lake

BarryTheHatchet

@GlenH7 well imma head up towards the aquarium ~~now~~ after a drink

user114359

@BarryTheHatchet Chicago is a very pedestrian city. Don't try walking where I live though

whatsisname

chicago is fine for walking

BarryTheHatchet

and if anyone fancies a Whiteboard meetup let me know :P

whatsisname

pretty much any american city that was well established prior to WWII is good for walking

the aquarium is pretty sweet

user114359

8:41 PM

just don't act like a tourist so you don't get mugged by ~~random criminals~~ our welcome committee.

BarryTheHatchet

I pride myself on trying to blend in wherever I go

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet Ampt is the only one of us that's close enough to do so. And he's had a bad day at work. So it's hard to tell...

whatsisname

if you have time, the museum of science and industry is badass

BarryTheHatchet

when I go to Spanish islands people tend to speak to me in Spanish first before they discover I have no idea what they're going on about

user114359

I could be in Chicago by 10 PM CDT if I leave now

BarryTheHatchet

8:41 PM

@GlenH7 anyone, not anysock

lol

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet There rest of us are hours away

user41796

@Snowman Closer to midnight if I left now for Chicago

whatsisname

if you wanna pretend you're in NYC theres a shake shack north of the loop across the river

BarryTheHatchet

ok see you there in ten minutes?

if I'm not there on time just wait around for a bit

user41796

@BarryTheHatchet Yep, but don't wait up. We'll ring when we get there

BarryTheHatchet

8:43 PM

great

user114359

Unfortunately, I have more exciting things to do than spend six hours in my car this evening: I have to hang drywall in my basement

whatsisname

yeah, I'd consider something if it was Minneapolis instead of Chicago

user114359

first, I need to wrap up this code modification I am writing based on code I wrote 5+ years ago under intense pressure when I had no time to do it correctly, and the technical debt is still haunting my team years later.

BarryTheHatchet

going for a wonder tata

enderland

@GlenH7 I read this as manatees when skimming the transcript.... LOL!

my brain is wonderful sometimes

user41796

8:58 PM

@enderland Hmmm, never had manatee before. I'm guessing they taste like chicken?

DeliriousSyntax

@Richard Eh, I don't get open-source acronyms. Sure, they may be accurate names, but do we really need stuff named that or the GNU Image Manipulation Program which reminds me by the way I haven't seen Pulp Fiction lately? — Snowman 5 hours ago

@Snowman Found you ;)

user114359

@DeliriousSyntax sure did

DeliriousSyntax

I saw the question under hot topics and thought it might be interesting

user114359

That whole movie is interesting. It is a satire poking fun at everything involved with being American: the excess, the carelessness, the selfishness.

user15026

9:21 PM

@Snowman Which? Wall-E?

user114359

@AshleyNunn yes

user15026

I liked it. It was a fun movie, and an interesting poke at consumer excess.

Saurav

I had a question regarding making software like Emacs using C++. I wanted to know the design paradigm, what essential tools are required for the purpose. However, it has been marked as off-topic! Here's the link programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/313081/…

Any help as to how can I frame it to make it relevant? Or is it lost hope?

enderland

@Saurav questions recommending a list of tools are pretty much explicitly off topic here... I think that is not going to be a good fit for the site, but probably a much better fit for chat

Ixrec

the main issues are 1) "how to write a program that does X?" is usually waaaay too broad a question for a single Q&A, it's the sort of thing people write entire books about and 2) as enderland just said resource/tool requests are explicitly off-topic on the main site

enderland

9:30 PM

my recommendation for a intermediate level young programmer would be not to try to reproduce something like emacs

whatsisname

yes, recreating emacs is a million times more difficult than just learning Lisp and getting on with your life

Ixrec

especially since, almost by definition, you will have to implement an equivalent of Lisp to recreate all of emacs

user114359

@enderland Reproducing the Linux kernel from scratch would be simpler than rewriting Emacs.

Saurav

Yes, I can consider staring with small programs and learning the tools required. It is not expected to learn everything and just barge into writing a software. Rome was not built in a day and I guess so was Emacs

enderland

keep in mind that emacs has been around for a long time and has had many, _many people contributing (presumably? I guess I'm assuming)

Ixrec

9:33 PM

all I know is that many people have memorized the key combination for exiting emacs so they can get back to vim where they belong

(one of these days I should probably give emacs a fair shot, but for now I use vim)

Saurav

I suppose "tools" is a flagged word. My bad. What I essentially meant was what all aspects of programming is required to write a software similar to Emacs. I understand that which library and which tool to use is very broad and they can individually form good amount of research. But what are these programming aspects that I need to know in the first place

user114359

even when I am using a real IDE such as Visual Studio or Eclipse, I still switch to VIM for some tasks. Its regex abilities are unparalleled when compared against IDEs.

enderland

@Saurav github.com/emacs-mirror/emacs/tree/master/src

that's the source code for emacs, take a look at how many files and how large they are

I don't know what your background is or how experienced you are

but the reason I'm cautioning you away is that... emacs is a very nontrivial application

Saurav

I did. I agree. But I am not discouraged to write a software by the size. I will learn in the process. Be a better programmer. I don't intend to just replace Emacs, even for my personal use. I just know it will be an experience worth it.

Let's say I am in 15-18 year range. And beginner to intermediate level, maybe.

psr

@Saurav Getting out and writing code is good. But the ability to estimate the rough number of person-years a project will take is also important. You just won't come close to finishing.

Saurav

9:41 PM

Still not demotivated enough :)

It's not like I am leaving my high-school for this!

user114359

@Saurav while you do that, I'm going to go rewrite all the software for the Space Shuttle. I bet I can finish first.

Ixrec

the most useful answer I can come up with is that you'll need 1) basic file I/O, which hopefully you already know, and 2) to learn some kind of GUI technology, be it curses or the Win32 API or whatever, presumably since you brought up emacs it'd be curses

to get to a program that can be called an "editor" in the most rudimentary sense

things like a regex engine much less an interpreter for your own editor-specific macro language obviously would come much later (or, tbh, they'd be better off as separate learning projects unless people actually start using your editor)

Saurav

I guess it's good to start with. I can probably learn more about the design of Emacs and Vim and get ideas.

Ixrec

I assume serious editors like those also have some serious optimizations to handle large numbers of large files and complex macro evaluations without getting bogged down

oh and syntax highlighting, that's a fun one to figure out

Saurav

Yes. 1. Regex engine, 2. syntax highlighting, 3. Frames/Windows, 4. Efficient file handling, 5. Optimize for OS, 6. How to deploy software

Ixrec

9:47 PM

don't forget the unit/integration/performance/fuzz tests

user114359

For GUI (a la xemacs or gvim) I recommend wxWidgets.

Saurav

Okay! 7. Lots of performance testing

Is it still off-topic. Any hope I can revive the question by editing it?

Ixrec

it's certainly possible but unlikely

going back to what I originally said 1) it's way too broad, you need to ask about something far more specific, 2) resource/tool requests are off-topic, full stop, so those parts just need to be removed

what this most likely means is you have to start implementing this project and then when you run into a specific design problem come ask us about it

Saurav

I guess I understand that it's way too broad. There could be endless list of "features" which might require endless list of skills.

Ixrec

yup

Steven Burnap

9:56 PM

I hate to play devil's advocate, but in 1991, a certain professor in OS design told a certain young, naive developer that trying to develop an entire OS was a waste of time.

user114359

@StevenBurnap And he spent the past 25 years working on it

Steven Burnap

I think if someone wants to try to develop an editor, they will learn a lot, and if they are comfortable with knowing that they have a snowball's chance in hell of actually supplanting real editors, then they show go ahead.

psr

@Ixrec I've encountered a section of code that appears to be the Linux kernel implemented in emacs lisp. Somehow it appears to be downloading the Linux nightlies and live-translating the lisp source code to match. Can anybody point me to the code that does that? I can't find it.

Steven Burnap

When I was 18, I built a mini Forth interpreter just as a learning experience. I knew from the start I was going to be the only one to ever use it. I didn't remotely finish. I learned a hell of a lot

user114359

I remember trying to write my own Doom source port ages ago when they released the source code. I got nowhere but I did learn a lot

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