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user55340
1:01 AM
Neat things: codepen.io/akm2 - don't click if you value your time.
 
durron597
durron597
2:27 AM
I have voted to close this question as too broad. See this and this and this for examples of more narrowly focused, answerable questions on similar topics. — durron597 56 secs ago
 
user55340
2:37 AM
0
Q: How to ask "how to understand some code" questions

MichaelTOften we find questions along the lines of Help me understand this C program #include<stdio.h> main() { printf("Hello World"); } Well, that one may be a bit simplified - but its not an uncommon form for a question that is asked here. How should one prepare and ask a "what does this c...

discussion closed-questions asking-questions
 
Duga
Duga
5:38 AM
Perhaps you should move this question to programmers.stackexchange.com because it is quite not a SO question. — GHajba 50 secs ago
 
 
2 hours later…
user143252
user143252
7:57 AM
I am trying to understand a puzzrl kind of question ,and I have to write a java code ,
If possible please explainthe below question , in simple words
I will be very thankful to you
Given a string and a second "word" string, we'll say that the word matches the string if it appears at the front of the string, except its first char does not need to match exactly. On a match, return the front of the string, or otherwise return the empty string. So, so with the string "hippo" the word "hi" returns "hi" and "xip" returns "hip". The word will be at least length 1.
 
user143252
user143252
8:17 AM
@durron597
 
 
3 hours later…
Ixrec
Ixrec
11:40 AM
@user143252 what exactly do you need help with understanding? it's a bizarre problem but it seems fully specified
 
gnat
gnat
11:59 AM
-13
Q: why my previous questions are deleted.?

Vamsi Abbineniwhy my previous questions are deleted by meager..that too with out intimation...why should this happen..i want to know the reason..please anyone help me...by deleting my previous questions my reputation also deducted.so that i am not able to vote down for few questions. dear meager you don't hav...

discussion
^^^ what a trainwreck
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
12:43 PM
Happy coffee day
 
André
André
Happy indeed!
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I guess it's Happy pizza day for me
 
André
André
Happy pizza day then
 
Duga
Duga
1:09 PM
I'm voting to close this question as off-topic because it's about copyright. Such things might be on topic on Programmers. — Dukeling 41 secs ago
@Dukeling Copyright questions are off-topic on Programmers, however this isn't a copyright question - it's an open source licensing question. That does make it on-topic on Programmers. However, I think that it may be a duplicate of an existing question. As a courtesy, though, I'd prefer if you did not suggest that other people bring their questions to Programmers or any other site. It leads to cross-posting and, if it's not a good fit, down votes and closure (and maybe question bans) on multiple sites. Instead, just vote to close and/or flag for moderator review for migration if you can't. — Thomas Owens 40 secs ago
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
hey, stumbled across spam flag:
1
A: Fixing Outlook 2010's notorious 'Disabled Search Indexer' Add-in problem

LorenzoTry the add-on called Lookeen. It costs money, but it's worth it. Lookeen will transform your everyday work dramatically. You receive and send countless e-mails every day. That leads to a lot of time being wasted when you sort your Inbox or searching for relevant information in your archives ...

 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
1:31 PM
@JimmyHoffa technically a valid answer
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
1:42 PM
This is my second workplace in a row where people want to write their own system monitoring software :|
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
@MetaFight did you suggest a existing package?
or is it just NIH
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
NIH?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
not invented here syndrome
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
I suggested we use a 3rd party solution because we don't want to have to write/test/maintain our monitoring system. People nod. Nothing happens.
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens you can also now delete all question comments as obsolete.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
1:55 PM
hmm, I was going to flag programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/290329/… for migration to U&L, but it's tagged Windows...do we have an SE to ask about Windows command line one-liners?
 
user55340
SuperUser
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
oh yeah
I always forget about those trilogy sites
 
Duga
Duga
This is probably more suited to programmers.stackexchange.com — cdslnte 54 secs ago
@Dukeling On Programmers, we have an issue where people suggest cross-posting off-topic or low-quality questions. When that happens, instead of reading our Help Center or Meta to find out what is acceptable, they dump their text and are often greeted by down votes, comments, and closure. That leaves a very poor user experience, at best, and a question ban, at worst. It's best to not encourage this behavior. — Thomas Owens 33 secs ago
 
durron597
durron597
2:20 PM
What do people think about this?
@durron597 I guess I tried to keep it general, because it feels like a general problem I'd expect to be a "solved" problem, but I haven't been able to find anything on it. Those examples are all around how to setup identity, this assumes identity is handled, but going beyond just authorisation to view a page, and making use of the identity data to help with actually assigning tasks for users to complete based on their roles or claims. It seems like something a lot of apps (especially enterprise apps) would need to do, so I'd be surprised if they all do it their own way. — Ben 11 hours ago
 
Duga
Duga
2:38 PM
Stack Overflow is strictly for questions about programming and tools used by programmers. You can ask questions about licensing issues on Programmers.SE. — Bill the Lizard 36 secs ago
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
thanks i will share there — RED.Skull 23 secs ago
can't quite tell if it'll be a licensing question or a technical support question, but it's coming
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
@Ixrec looks like techsupport
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
it's kind of sad to see someone like Bill the Lizard make a rookie mistake like this; the newbie's getting downvotes on two sites now
I can't tell if I'm supposed to politely tell him off or what...
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ratchetfreak spam isn't always an invalid answer, it's just ... spam.
@MetaFight perhaps I don't know what you mean by "monitoring system" - but the off the shelf ones I've seen are utterly useless to developers purposes - great for IT folk though
Any you suggest?
 
durron597
durron597
2:54 PM
@Ixrec That was definitely an incorrect site recommendation. Man.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@lxrec Worklight 6.3 provide GPL version. Can i push my app to production ?. If you know solution share it by posting the answer. This thread may help others. thanks — RED.Skull 50 secs ago
well, there's a glimmer of hope, he actually knows one of the licenses
 
durron597
durron597
@Ixrec The asker has all the characteristics of someone who knows what they're doing but not how Stack Exchange works, and English is not first language.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
@JimmyHoffa I've never use one, really. My monitoring requirements are pretty basic: make sure a bunch of Windows Services on a bunch of computers are up and running. If not, send me an email.
Additional stuff like including log files in the email would be cool, but not necessary.
 
durron597
durron597
 
enderland
enderland
@durron597 I saw a friend of mine on facebook started a new job as a "Javascript Engineer" and it was amusing to read the comments in light of the, ah, perspective of SE about Javascript ;)
 
durron597
durron597
3:09 PM
@enderland Ask him how it feels for his career to be all about a language that was designed in 10 days
 
user55340
... To link the web page to Java applets.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@MetaFight yeah - that's simple IT level monitoring. Tooling for that stuff is readily available and high quality.
Instrumentation to monitor for performance constraints, report usage metrics, audit transactions, maintain caches, allow debugging of distributed workflows, provide enough information to clone and reproduce entire user scenarios for tests, and in bulk for load profile generation - suddenly the off the shelf tooling feels pretty crappy
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
3:27 PM
but don't you need a monitor for the monitor as well? make sure that thing didn't crash.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
where I work, the machines are talking to each other enough that any time the monitoring breaks on one machine, there's a pretty good chance other stuff is broken and some other piece of code will start complaining eventually
though "complaining" covers a lot more than just crashing
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ratchetfreak for complex scenarios like that your monitoring needs to be decentralized and have redundancy. There's a point where you have to say "This is using primitive facilities, if it fails - the whole system isn't working and there's nothing we can do. So it doesn't actually matter."
redundancy as in "Well I tried accessing this network resource, but failed so I'll just journal locally..."
 
ratchet freak
ratchet freak
but at some point you will want to alert someone to the failure
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I think it's hard for a machine to go down without someone noticing
if you have alarming infrastructure on everyone that talks to it
(except on dev, then no one notices because we all switch to the next dev machine until it dies)
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
3:50 PM
@ratchetfreak That's what the IT monitoring tools are for - so IT get's a page saying "Hey uh - all the drives are full - or network router can't access bla or whatever"
 
enderland
enderland
so in case folks are curious I've been in my new job for about 3 months now (holy wow) and am liking it a lot more now than I did before.... (cc @GlenH7)
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
4:09 PM
@enderland For $10 will you mail me a pound of your home-roasted beans? You make them sound so special...
I'll paypal you the moneys if you'd be willing to mail out a bag next time you do a roast
 
gnat
gnat
4
Q: How would you clean up a question asking if you've written readable and easily maintainable code?

SnowmanThe topic of code quality comes up often enough that there is a wiki Q&A devoted to it: How would you know if you've written readable and easily maintainable code? There are currently 103 questions linked to or marked as a duplicate of that question. The question is very broad, and a poll aski...

discussion specific-question duplicate-questions popular-questions
^^^ I checked the answers there and left comments on those that look particularly troublesome. Would appreciate if 20Kers take a look at these
 
user55340
4:26 PM
O_o - someone was suggesting MRI and EEG for determining if something is well written.
 
user55340
And I do recognize the author name now.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
> Much of the justification I have seen for getters and setters and private variables hinges on the getters and setters being clear places in which break points can be set.
where do ideas like this come from
 
user55340
Debuggers.
 
user55340
Try setting a breakpoint on field read. It's hard.
 
user55340
-2
A: How would you know if you've written readable and easily maintainable code?

ReviousProbably the most objective way to measure if a code is readable would be to measure it through scientific tests. For example measuring the cerebral activity in the brain of other developers which tries to read and understand it. Functional Magnetic Resonance (fMRI) and EEG are now able to answe...

 
gnat
gnat
4:31 PM
@MichaelT that one smells really, really bad but I can't figure how to express this in comment (tried two or three times)
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@MichaelT Is he suggesting that you should put someone into an fMRI or EEG and have them read code to determine if it's readable and easily maintainable?
 
gnat
gnat
Handwaving
Handwaving is a pejorative label applied to the action of displaying the appearance of doing something, when actually doing little, or nothing. For example, it is applied to debate techniques that involve fallacies. It is also used in working situations where productive work is expected, but no work is actually accomplished. Handwaving can be an idiomatic term, and it can also be a literal descriptive term for the use of excessive body language gestures that may be perceived as lacking productivity in communication or other effort. The superlative expressions for the term, such as "vigorous...
^^^ that's what it is
 
user55340
@gnat he had some ideas. Got question banned here. Ranted in a question at cogsci (closed by shog).
 
user55340
Glance at his m.p.se and m.se activity.
 
gnat
gnat
@MichaelT yeah I remember that. Still, this didn't help to figure comment explaining the issue with the answer
The rules are classical: know your audience. In hot question, your audience will be many (thousands) community newcomers, unfamiliar with norms, plus several site regulars. Newcomers are your sheep, these will bring you wool and milk (upvotes and supportive comments). Regulars are your dogs, you need to make sure they can't bite you too hard (can't flag / 20Kers won't vote-to-delete your answer).

For the "sheep", you need a populist slogan, a pitch, a catch phrase that will trigger sufficient support ("git is fantastic" is a good bet for programmers communities). For the "dogs", you need b…
^^^ failed to please "the sheep" but succeeded to repel "dogs"
 
user55340
4:35 PM
Just delete vote. Tempted to flag with WAT?
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
too bad we can't move that to a "joke answers only" question
like WB or PPCG can
 
user55340
@Ixrec scary part - he wasn't joking.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
per death of the author, it's a joke now regardless of his original intent
 
durron597
durron597
Migrate to programmers.se — DJDavid98 17 secs ago
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
that comment was a bit of an epic fail
 
durron597
durron597
4:46 PM
@ThomasOwens Thanks
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens yes, he is. Code review time - lets hook up the team lead to a machine and show him our code.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Hey guys, The Workplace is having another mod election. Only one nomination so far.
4
 
 
1 hour later…
user55340
6:02 PM
@ThomasOwens @gnat for workplace blue name?
 
gnat
gnat

gnat's de-nomination

Mar 7 '14 at 17:43, 25 minutes total – 16 messages, 2 users, 0 stars

Bookmarked Mar 26 '14 at 11:03 by gnat

 
user55340
Need to Area 51 "GnatFacts.SE" so you can find a site to mod.
 
gnat
gnat
@MichaelT that would be the site with all questions deleted?
 
user55340
"Is there any evidence that gnat is an AI coded by Jon Skeet, but only communicates via links to meta and YouTube videos?"
 
user55340
Completely on topic.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
6:15 PM
"Is it possible to make the tone of gnat's auto-comments slightly friendlier, or is he closed-source?"
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@ThomasOwens I think I'm going to nominate you, just to be a jerk. Teach you to..uhm...something...
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@JimmyHoffa You can't nominate someone else.
 
enderland
enderland
speaking of candidates, I can't tell if Donald Trump is serious or trolling
 
user55340
Now, @JimmyHoffa you could run yourself...
 
enderland
enderland
like, some of the stuff he says for policies actually seems sound to me but... he acts like a 5 year old too
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
6:22 PM
@enderland Do you want a 5 year old leading a world power with a large military and nuclear weapons?
 
user55340
@enderland in business he has a layer of people filtering bad ideas and giving credit for good ones.
 
psr
psr
@enderland Is generating a lot of publicity for your real job serious or trolling?
 
user55340
On the stumb, that layer doesn't exist and (lack of) brain connected to mouth with no inhibitions.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
2016 in US politics is going to be a total shitshow.
 
enderland
enderland
I just hope it's not Clinton vs Bush
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
6:27 PM
If it is, then people will post that "WHAT YEAR IS IT?" meme all over the Internet and I will cry.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@MichaelT yuck yuck yuck
 
enderland
enderland
@psr the real question is if it's actually good publicity
 
gnat
gnat
@MichaelT would close as too broad. Too much evidence, too many answers
 
psr
psr
@enderland He doesn't appear to have ever worried about that before (and it seems to have worked out pretty well for him).
 
enderland
enderland
It is definitely making him more, ah, visible in the media
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
6:32 PM
in all honesty, I don't think there's a difference between Donald Trump serious and Donald Trump trolling... just like a 5 year old. Perhaps one day he'll unzip his Donald Trump suit and we'll find out it's been a child in there all along...
 
enderland
enderland
if he trolls IRL every candidate that'll be about 15x the publicity they all get..
 
Duga
Duga
Probably better suited for programmers.stackexchange.com — Rakesh 16 secs ago
 
durron597
durron597
@enderland what's the deal with this user?
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland which is good for them - republicans get notoriously bad publicity due to being pretty far off the population. Plus Trump is ensuring republican media is drowning out any democratic publicity too, so really he's doing them all a favor
 
psr
psr
It can't hurt to be even a long-shot presidential candidate when you are trying to get all your various real estate ventures approved. I think he knows what he's doing (though what he's doing isn't anything like what you'd hope for in a president).
 
durron597
durron597
6:34 PM
@gnat That was 16 months ago.
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa yeah it's interesting applying trolling techniques to RL and observing
 
Duga
Duga
@Rakesh This is not a good fit for Programmers. Please do not suggest that people take their questions to another site if the question is off-topic or of low-quality - it only leads to a poor user experience (and maybe even an automated question block) when the question is down voted, closed, and perhaps deleted. — Thomas Owens 16 secs ago
 
durron597
durron597
@enderland Both.
 
psr
psr
@durron597 He has a lot of disk space.
 
durron597
durron597
@psr Long shot? In the last poll he was way ahead with 24% share
 
psr
psr
6:38 PM
@durron597 I didn't know that. But I imagine it's mostly name recognition and doesn't run real deep. On the other hand, the terminator.
 
durron597
durron597
@psr Ronald Reagan was an actor first
 
enderland
enderland
politics is mostly name recognition and/or ability to look good
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@durron597 haha yeah, and there's endless sound clips that anybody running against him could play on repeat that would make everyone simply disgusted with him.
 
enderland
enderland
skills are optional, experience not recommended (hard to pull up dirt on someone who hasn't done anything meaningful)
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
He has no chance - everyone knows that. If he won the primary it would be both hilarious and depressing, because it would mean that the republican party truly is dead.... or perhaps not depressing because we would end up getting a new party..
 
durron597
durron597
6:41 PM
@JimmyHoffa he's tapping into a lot of anger and negative energy that is pervasive throughout the country. So is Bernie Sanders, by the way.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@durron597 of course. He still says lots of things that would ensure absolutely no chance at a general election win.
 
enderland
enderland
I suspect trump is very deliberately crafting an image that he is not a "normal politician" and in the current candidate pool (on both sides) that's probably going to be a plus for him
 
durron597
durron597
No one thinks either has a real chance, but they are both on to something (in a relating to every day americans sense, not a "my policies are good ideas" sense)
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
I doubt Bernie Sanders could win in the general either
 
durron597
durron597
@enderland Ding.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
6:42 PM
@durron597 doesn't matter - that's primary stuff.
 
enderland
enderland
The question is whether his stupidity in comments overshadows that? who knows. Keep in mind plenty of folks like being disrepectful IRL too (and online...)
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
means dick beyond the primary
 
enderland
enderland
GW Bush did the same thing, crafted a much different image of his intelligence than he actually was politically
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
I think the only democrat I'm aware of running with any chance in the general is Jim Webb.
 
durron597
durron597
@JimmyHoffa And of course Liz Warren could beat 80% of the GOP field.
(if not more)
she must owe the clintons personally, it's the only thing I can think of.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
6:45 PM
@durron597 really?
 
enderland
enderland
keep in mind if she can only beat 80% that still leaves like 5 people
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
I thought the right hated warren
didn't pay close attention, so don't know I guess
 
psr
psr
@JimmyHoffa Is there a Democratic candidate the right doesn't hate?
 
enderland
enderland
@enderland and Thomas: Fair point, removing the comment — Rakesh 12 mins ago
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@psr Jim Webb - probably others I don't know off hand. I mean, there's dislike, and then raging hatred which they have for anyone who doesn't have any policy concessions towards the right
 
psr
psr
6:49 PM
@JimmyHoffa Obama has a fair amount of policy concessions towards the right. Yet he doesn't seem terribly popular with them, somehow.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
The general demands someone who's not perceived as strongly left or right. When it comes to the actual people - not the pundits or activists - you'll find lots of folks are OK with one or two people on the opposite side of the aisle from their personal politics
@psr he's been demonized for 8 years. Also why Clinton doesn't stand a chance in the general.
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa she isn't likeable at all, which doesn't help her at all
 
psr
psr
@JimmyHoffa That's true. When the primaries are over there is always the big scramble towards the center.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland anybody who's been publicly demonized for as many years as her would be perceived as "not likeable"
 
psr
psr
@JimmyHoffa Except her husband.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
6:52 PM
@psr he never got near the rhetoric she did
 
enderland
enderland
@JimmyHoffa no, I mean, I don't ever see her and think "wow I like her as a person" in the way people like Obama/Bill are - she's not charismatic in the slightest
Even GW Bush was way more that way
 
gnat
gnat
would appreciate some votes on the question and the answer - programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/290380/…
 
psr
psr
@JimmyHoffa True. But it never would have stuck. She was a much easier target.
 
enderland
enderland
people like people who they can relate to
 
user15026
@enderland That's horrifying
 
user15026
6:58 PM
Like I know this was a test of their skills, but the part where they cut the transmission while he was on the highway jsut horrifies me
 
enderland
enderland
> Worse, he suggests, a skilled hacker could take over a group of Uconnect head units and use them to perform more scans—as with any collection of hijacked computers—worming from one dashboard to the next over Sprint’s network. The result would be a wirelessly controlled automotive botnet encompassing hundreds of thousands of vehicles.
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
@enderland henceforth I refuse to buy any car made after '08.
 
enderland
enderland
I don't know why someone thinks connecting the entertainment system to the main CAN system is a good idea
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@enderland Isn't there an FAA equivalent for cars in the US? The NTSB or something?
Because doing that in an aircraft would get you smacked down so quick, it would probably make your entertainment system a Level A critical system. And developing an entertainment system to that level would be so costly, planes wouldn't have them.
Maybe there should be an automotive equivalent to DO-178, too.
 
enderland
enderland
aircraft are hardly the consumer products that cars are, though
 
durron597
durron597
7:05 PM
@JimmyHoffa The center doesn't hate her.
 
psr
psr
@ThomasOwens I read something saying the airline entertainment systems are not always on a different physical network. They have "other measures" that they can't reveal for security reasons.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@psr I'm aware of two methods - separate networks and physical devices that regulate what devices talk to what device.
 
psr
psr
@ThomasOwens I wish. I am genuinely going to try to get a car without any form of remote connection ability, if that's even possible by then.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Guess what! This exists!
Automotive Safety Integrity Level
This article is a discussion of ASIL as a means of classifying hazards, particularly to provide a context for comparison with other methods of classifying hazards, risk, quality, or reliability. For a more thorough description of ASIL, methods of its assessment, and its roles within ISO 26262 processes, see ISO 26262 (Automotive Safety Integrity Level). Automotive Safety Integrity Level (ASIL) is a risk classification scheme defined by the ISO 26262 - Functional Safety for Road Vehicles standard. This is an adaptation of the Safety Integrity Level used in IEC 61508 for the automotive industry....
National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA, pronounced "NITS-uh") is an agency of the Executive Branch of the U.S. government, part of the Department of Transportation. It describes its mission as "Save lives, prevent injuries, reduce vehicle-related crashes." As part of its activities, NHTSA is charged with writing and enforcing Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards as well as regulations for motor vehicle theft resistance and fuel economy, the latter under the rubric of the Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) system. NHTSA also licenses vehicle manufacturers and importers, allows...
 
enderland
enderland
Deploying updates to vehicles is much harder than computers unfortunately too..
 
psr
psr
7:09 PM
@ThomasOwens So do demonstrated hacks (by researchers, fortunately).
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
So much evidence that there are things we should not use computers for, Ever. But we still do it.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@RobertHarvey Computers aren't the problem. Humans designing systems is the problem.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
No, computers are the problem. You can't secure them. The only way you can truly secure them is by unplugging them. Creating a path from the cell phone to the main bus that controls the car isn't just hubris, it's irresponsible.
 
enderland
enderland
Let's just hope tanks don't have similar vulnerabilities
 
psr
psr
@ThomasOwens I will consider relaxing my position for the special case of alien-designed vehicles.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
7:11 PM
@RobertHarvey That's how "secure networks" are made. Physical security and total network isolation. What's the problem with that? It works in aircraft.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Ergo, you disconnect the cell phone from the main bus. Problem solved.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@RobertHarvey So, computers aren't the problem. The human that designed the network was.
 
enderland
enderland
Problems come when you want to have multiple functions that cross that bridge and don't want to spend lots of money on additional GPS sensors/embedded controllers..
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
The belief that it's possible to secure a system without unplugging it is the problem.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@enderland If you don't want to spend the money to secure it, don't implement it.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
7:14 PM
one of the holy grails of computing is an operating system so simple that an ordinary user can (if they wish) have a genuinely complete understanding of what software is actually running on their system, and what it's doing with each external resource
but I think everyone gave up on that particular one a while ago
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@ThomasOwens Psh. It doesn't take much money to unplug.
 
enderland
enderland
@RobertHarvey it's probably not the cost of actually doing it differently (A vs B) but rewriting/reorganizing everything you have currently to operate on two different networks
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@RobertHarvey Which is why a totally isolated network and physical security should work just fine.
 
psr
psr
@ThomasOwens So far as I know cars aren't doing this though.
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@psr Seems that way.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
7:15 PM
Because they still believe that it can be done securely.
Without unplugging.
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
anyone have a vaguely programming related funny picture I can use in my next progress update email?
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
When I was at NASA, we unplugged the control rooms from the Internet. Simple. Then IT security came along and said "You can't unplug these systems, because we can't scan them remotely for vulnerabilities." That's so illustrative of the fundamental disconnect IT professionals have about security.
@MetaFight Any programming-related XKCD?
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
I was thinking more along the lines of
That one went over well.
 
enderland
enderland
@MetaFight xkcd.com/722
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
nice
 
psr
psr
7:18 PM
I'm not buying a car that isn't unplugged. (You would think it would reach the level of a military concern. China, say, remote controlling most of the cars in the U.S. seems militarily problematic to me).
 
durron597
durron597
@psr No, he doesn't.
 
psr
psr
@durron597 I would expect you would think that.
 
enderland
enderland
@psr lets just hope tanks/helicopters/aircraft/ships aren't plugged into the network like this, if you want to "dream big" on when it can be problematic ;)
 
durron597
durron597
@psr Well, what is your definition of "fair number"?
I mean, I agree it's > 0
 
psr
psr
@durron597 I think the issue will be the definition of "right".
 
durron597
durron597
7:21 PM
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@MetaFight probably a bit late, but I like this one:
 
MetaFight
MetaFight
That's a good one too ;)
 
enderland
enderland
7:42 PM
Oh character encodings
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
run away
 
enderland
enderland
I am getting a "UTF8" file which I cannot view in Notepad++ even with UTF8 selected wtf
 
user41796
likely not really utf8 then
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
Does Notepad++ have an "Auto" mode?
 
user41796
yes
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
7:45 PM
what kind of "auto"? it normally auto-detects encodings for me
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 this is what I assume, but... our mainframe person creating the file >.>
 
Thomas Owens
Thomas Owens
@Ixrec Exactly that. Automatically detecting encodings.
 
user41796
@enderland probably still ebcdic then. :-)
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
there's probably some online validation tool you can dump it into so it can say "byte XYZ is invalid"
 
enderland
enderland
it has relatively confidential data, I'm not going to drop it into an online tool :P
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
7:47 PM
got any hex editors?
 
user55340
Notepad++ has an auto mode (remember - Europe coder base) to compete with google's self driving car extension for emacs.
 
user41796
Could also have failed on the translation from zOS to open systems - they're different endian systems
 
user55340
Of course emacs has a car. It probably has a cdr too.
 
gnat
gnat
...for the sake of fairness, question is well laid out and really easy to read. If only it was a good fit for the site — gnat 1 min ago
 
enderland
enderland
8:06 PM
turns out when you FTP using the Dos FTP you need to specify "binary" as the mode (instead of ascii)...
 
user41796
yep
 
user41796
ascii ftp will attempt to strip / convert line endings for you
 
user41796
no bueno
 
enderland
enderland
today I learned
:)
at least FTP has good documentation
NOT
 
user41796
somewhere along the way, I learned to always set the transfer mode to binary before during anything else with FTP
 
enderland
enderland
8:09 PM
yeah
we had a script, so it was obfuscated from the end result
it was faster to test the "binary" option than find the relevant documentation, too...
 
user41796
So is a mod stepping down from the workplace, or is volume up enough to justify a 4th mod?
 
enderland
enderland
volume, somewhat, but also that we're real people and somewhat consistently have outages due to this RL thing
we've never really had 2 gone at once for an extended period of time... :)
 
user41796
bah! Where's the dedication? The devotion?
 
user41796
Engineering is still pretty quiet so that makes it easier for the three of us to continue to enjoy the real world
 
enderland
enderland
@GlenH7 I'm trying to take a short break from stuff to focus on other things for a bit (I love answering/moderating there but it takes focus away from important things)
 
user41796
8:13 PM
I can relate to that. Now that my health issues appear to be in the past, it's time for me to refocus things.
 
user55340
Hey! It's almost almost pi day!
 
user55340
22/7 is almost pi.
 
user41796
I was trying to work that one out
 
user41796
I missed tau day this year. "bummer"
 
enderland
enderland
#NerdWorldProblems
 
Jimmy Hoffa
Jimmy Hoffa
8:22 PM
@durron597 really? Didn't know; thought they did
 
durron597
durron597
8:34 PM
2 hours ago, by durron597
@enderland what's the deal with this user?
 
enderland
enderland
@durron597 you can ask him, he's in Workplace Chat fairly often ;)
 
gnat
gnat
9:02 PM
I flagged this VLQ but upon closer inspection, it looks more like spam: programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/290396/…
OTOH their accounts on bitcoin.SE and SO look rather legit. The "question" is so senseless, hard to tell for sure what it meant to do
 
enderland
enderland
i chose "method" because i could have GetEntityByCategory(long categoryId), which could be changed to GetEntityByCategory(long categoryId, bool excludeArchived) in one branch, and GetEntityByCategory(long categoryId, long subCategoryId) in another. With the (terrible) specifications we get for new features, it is not always possible to know that two specifications collide (this is a business issue, but not one that is easily resolved)... (more to follow) — bizzehdee 9 mins ago
if I understand his work environment, given his question, he lives in merge hell every day
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I get vague specifications, but usually you have to choose some semi-concrete interpretation of them before any development can be done, and at that point it's easy to tell what it could conflict with
ok I read his other comments, I have no idea what's going on anymore
 
enderland
enderland
his recent comment makes no sense to me
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I swear any branching system more complex than "This is master. Every N days, we mark a commit on master as release vX.Y.Z. All features are branches off of master, which get merged into master after a code review." is just asking for a huge mess of confusion
 
enderland
enderland
it's like... "yeah we have a feature release candidate branch, but we never update it to production - we push all production updates to our active development branches"
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
9:17 PM
I have enough trouble keeping track of which users each of our release versions is deployed too without this branching nonsense
 
enderland
enderland
@Ixrec yeah. and if your company is big enough, have that master be a "release candidate" master that periodically gets merged into the real master
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
is that meaningfully different from periodically "cutting off a release branch"?
which is what we do
 
enderland
enderland
Well I mean, you can't have 100 developers all merging into the main master branch :P
I mean you can, I guess
But you probably don't want that...
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
oh, right, I'm thinking just our team's repo
 
enderland
enderland
YEah for a team that works, but if you have 5x teams working on a main product you likely want an intermediate person/gatekeeper
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
9:19 PM
there's this other repo for legacy code that far more than a hundred commit to, but that's only because its a ginormous task that needs an entire team just to oversee the build system for it; each component of it is still owned by a single team
personally I don't see how multiple teams can work on the same component effectively at all, no matter how many walls you put between them and the one true branch
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
And to think I was feeling sorry for myself for source control woes in a shop having a half-dozen developers.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
the product would be split into components for each team, right?
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
I think I finally figured out what they're doing here: Interface-Based Programming.
20
A: What exactly is "interface based programming"?

Jon SkeetIt's basically a matter of expressing your dependencies in terms of interfaces instead of concrete classes (or worse, static methods). So if one of your classes needs to perform authentication, it should be provided an IAuthenticator (or whatever). This means that: You can write your code befo...

 
user55340
It needs to be split to the point there isn't constant merges that break.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Except without the TDD, stubs or testing, really.
 
user55340
9:24 PM
If you are using spring right in the Java world, you have interfaces all over with autowired annotations.
 
user55340
Spring then hooks up the interfaces to the classes as described in the XML config.
 
user55340
That lets you easily swap config around.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
I don't think there's any IoC container or Service Locator here. Most of the DI is being done through the constructors.
Which is fine with me.
But you're right; it looks an awful lot like Enterprise Java.
It's the first time I've seen extensive use of interfaces in C# having nouns for names.
Usually, an Interface in C# describes a capability, like IEnumerable or IComparable.
 
user55340
Interfaces for those things tend to get nouny names.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
I see that.
 
enderland
enderland
9:30 PM
@RobertHarvey well with a smaller number of devs you have more personalities, or cooks in the kitchen ;)
 
user55340
The interface describes the set of classes that are that thing
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
You're probably more familiar with this style of programming than I am.
 
user55340
Looking at it right now.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@enderland You mean more cowboys, don't you?
 
user55340
I've got "DataAccess" as an interface. DataAccessOracle for the class that hooks up to a db. DataAccessStub for the test stubs class.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
9:34 PM
Right, I get that. But what about these more amorphous interfaces like 
public interface IResult : IVerificationUnitOfWork
{
    T GetValue<T>();
}
and 
/// <summary>
/// A safe unit of work
/// </summary>
public interface IVerificationUnitOfWork<out T> : IVerificationUnitOfWork
{
    /// <summary>
    /// Gets the result.
    /// </summary>
    /// <value>
    /// The result.
    /// </value>
    T Result { get; }
}
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
at least it's not an unsafe unit of work
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
[sigh]
By the way, those comments? Auto-generated from the method signature.
 
psr
psr
So today we modified our agile process to estimate in hours instead of points. And we need to put hours remaining on each task. And we need to modify our estimate each time we do so, until eventually the "estimate" is how much time we spent and the hours left is 0. I'm assuming this will really help future estimation since our estimated/actual ratio will be exactly 1.
@RobertHarvey Maybe it could put the source code into the comments too, so you would always have all the details.
 
durron597
durron597
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@psr unsure if partially tongue-in-cheek
System.out.println(" i dont multiple");
=(
in all seriousness that might've been decent on code review
 
enderland
enderland
9:39 PM
well OP is probably not a native English speaker
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Or a native English toker, mon.
 
psr
psr
@Ixrec Yes it is. We are losing the history of our estimates and just making it an expensive hours tracker.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
I know, but somehow that particular phrasing feels especially depressing in the context of the rest of question
@psr I was more referring to the inherent futility of fine-grained hours tracking, but that too
@psr does your bug tracker not have a separate field for "initial estimate"?
 
psr
psr
@Ixrec We could add it, but I don't think anyone cares. We're using Rally - it may have it but I haven't noticed one and certainly no one is using it.
@Ixrec That too.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
@psr if no one cares, would anyone notice if you didn't do it?
 
psr
psr
9:49 PM
@Ixrec No one cares about the initial estimate. They care about fine grained hours tracking.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
=(
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@MichaelT: So do I understand correctly that you can build an entire architecture with Interfaces, all the way down to the class level, and enable all sorts of things that would otherwise be somewhat difficult, like TDD, relatively easy mocking, and Service Locator?
 
user20683
@RobertHarvey I thought that was good design. Design all the interfaces and then paint by numbers as it were
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
@WorldEngineer I'm not an enterprise developer. Never have been.
Though I think I'm finally seeing the appeal of all those interfaces.
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey when done correctly, yes.
 
user55340
9:53 PM
Rarely have I seen it done correctly. You have to drink all the koolaid. If you miss some, it makes some parts difficult.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
I take it you don't necessarily mean T Result { get; }
Nor do you mean proliferating interfaces, but skipping the TDD or Service Locator parts.
 
user55340
I have code that is autowired to a service, which is autowired to the data layers.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
Sadly, my new job is very over engineered in this sort of Enterprise Java interface ubiquity.
 
user20683
@Telastyn the ISS of architecture astronauts as it were?
 
user55340
I can swap the service layer easily. Or switch from one data service (say a database) to a rest endpoint with a tweak to XML.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
9:55 PM
In the past I have considered this overengineering as well. Until I realized it solves a whole cadre of problems that would otherwise require difficult workarounds, especially in the TDD arena.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
One Target veteran in particular thinks that it is a good idea to have a 5 deep tree of interfaces, "just in case".
 
user55340
The framework auto scans for controllers so I don't need jetty to do tests of the controller.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
How do you know the correct thing is being instantiated. If something throws an exception, how do you track it down?
 
user55340
I just use its test library and it mocks all the mvc for me.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Sounds like a plot for a sitcom.
 
user55340
9:57 PM
The stack trace has the class name in it.
 
Robert Harvey
Robert Harvey
Mmm... Stack Traces.
 
user55340
It's not bad once you drink the koolaid.
 
Telastyn
Telastyn
yeah, I like interfaces, but when it gets to the point that 80% of your class is just satisfying an interface rather than doing new/novel work...
 
user55340
My current battle in another module is a hand coded "give me the service layer" rather than autowired because I can't swap it out for testing easily.
 
Ixrec
Ixrec
btw, does "enterprise" development mean anything more specific than "big company, big codebase, big list of requirements"? because I feel like I'm missing about half the layers of magic that you guys seem to be working with
 
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