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4:00 PM
@durron597 Yeah. Definitely.
 
@ThomasOwens Windows applications used to do that all. the. time.
Anyway, back to my original point: I see no reason for that question to be C++ / C# specific. Many languages have poor exceptions
 
user114359
Abort, Retry, Fail?
 
user114359
@durron597 then retag it
 
Maybe it's partly because of work. We provide systems to other technically savvy people. If we log too much in user-facing logs or provide too many implementation details, it would only support reconstructing and reverse engineering our work. Maybe it's not an issue in business type software. But the question still stands: Why do core language developers not include meaningful messages in exceptions?
 
@durron597 throw new PoorException("Alms?");
 
4:06 PM
@MichaelT As a user, can you see in the question who reopened it?
Or anyone, really.
 
user55340
@ThomasOwens shows up in /revisions
 
user41796
It's in the edit history:
> Post Reopened by Mason Wheeler, Martin Ba, Robert Harvey, Snowman, durron597
I'm assuming you're asking about the exception question.
 
No. The cargo cult question.
 
user55340
It was Robert. Not our Robert, but Cartaino.
 
I just pinged to get an answer.
And I locked the question as historical.
 
user41796
4:11 PM
@ThomasOwens TY. That's a big WUT?! right there
 
user55340
(Just click on the 'edited Dec 2 '11 at 23:38' to see the history with votes to open and close)
 
@MichaelT Yeah. I don't know what's a mod-only view and what's visible to normal people.
 
user55340
Timeline works too, but requires url fiddles.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens I'm presuming there's a number of flags on that question, right?
 
@GlenH7 Surprisingly, no.
The only flag was an auto "too many comments" flag.
 
user41796
4:14 PM
That's... odd then. Can't imagine what made it pop up on Robert's radar then.
 
user55340
Given its age and votes I have no intentions to go after it with delete.
 
user41796
When a question like that converts over to CW status, I don't mind leaving them around as closed. People can vote as they please and it doesn't have any meaningful impact to privileges provided to users who otherwise wouldn't learn the site's culture.
 
Auto CW is dead.
 
user114359
I actually saw the cargo cult question on the front page and thought about VTCing it, but given the number of votes I decided "meh". I think locking it like Thomas did is the right thing to do.
 
Well, the Exceptions question turned out to be an opinion-based question after all.
It basically boils down to "Why didn't they..?" You'd have to ask them.
And "they" probably don't remember.
 
4:20 PM
or try to look for a FAQ in the docs
 
user55340
That was my vote in round 1. Can't recast when reopened.
 
The .NET docs show all kinds of ways you can add meaningful metadata to the exception. There's even a Key/Value pair collection you can add to.
So it still boils down to "why didn't they?"
 
For example the Why were Java collections implemented with “optional methods” in the interface? question is only answerable because I had found the FAQ I referenced a few weeks before
 
Java doesn't do it as nice as C#, it appears. For example, the FileNotFoundException doesn't contain an attribute for the file path that wasn't found.
Exceptions probably should be more robust and contain more metadata that is unique to that particular exceptions. Having a nice hierarchy should allow you to do that well.
 
Do "Optional Methods" really do what they say on the tin? I've seen so many things in Java that aren't what I thought they were (lambda expressions ==> type erasure).
 
4:24 PM
@RobertHarvey I'm going to throw a controversial opinion out there
I think that should be a little bit of wiggle room within the close reasons.
 
@RobertHarvey if you call one that isn't implemented you get a NotImplementedException thrown in your face
 
It is opinion based, sure, but I think we can have good answers to it, and it has the potential to drive traffic once it hits the hot questions list.
Such questions should be the exception rather than the rule
 
@durron597 agh! ask @gnat about the bountiful value of traffic driven by hot questions list...
 
and it's up to the community as a whole to decide what we should do with them. like when we voted to reopen it.
 
top driver of traffic shouldn't be the hot question list
 
4:26 PM
hot questions list is a magnificent way to turn a question that could have good answers into a question that has lots of absolutely awful ones
 
@JimmyHoffa Okay, fine, put it on reddit :)
Look, 90% of everything is crap. So if you get more traffic, you get more crap traffic.
If you try to filter out ALL the crap, you get ServerFault.
And no one wants to be ServerFault, except maybe themselves.
 
Ohh... Name dropping.
 
codereview is on its way
 
what's wrong with ServerFault?
 
On it's way to what?
 
4:28 PM
is there nothing useful on it these days?
 
@durron597 nah, if you're overtly crude and revel in superiority you get ServerFault - at a guess - if you filter out all the crap as we tend to, you just end up with concentrated quality.
 
to being very pedantic on what it accepts
 
@whatsisname Apparently you haven't seen the recent controversy.
 
I haven't indeed, hence I asked
 
@whatsisname A place where most people don't want to be. I can't imagine ever asking any question I have there.
New users get tarred, feathered, and then lit on fire.
 
4:29 PM
@whatsisname You mean other than it's full of sysadmins?
6
 
^-- the true source of the issue
 
user55340
Filtering crap requires active reviewers in proportion to in influx. Can't let the mods do it all.
 
user114359
@durron597 I generally ask those sorts of questions on Unix & Linux or Ask Ubuntu. There is plenty of overlap given my only server runs Ubuntu
 
@MichaelT plus we have a very helpful meta site that's full of quality guidance rather than nose-thumbing
 
@MichaelT In my 295 reviews, I've definitely clicked "Leave Open" on questions with 4 close votes a half a dozen times
 
user114359
4:32 PM
Actually, turns out I haven't asked any questions at those sites. Looks like I have used SuperUser though, which is odd because I know I have asked Samba questions before.
 
@whatsisname SF's problem is that they think they're somehow special, that they're different than all the other sites, that their problems are unique. So one of their mods, after lengthy discussions on their meta site, decided to wholesale delete an entire tag's worth of questions. Someone complained, Shog9 investigated, noticed all the deletions, diamond was removed.
 
user15026
@RobertHarvey that is an excellent summary.
 
There was much wailing and gnashing of teeth, mostly over an inflammatory comment Shog9 made (this isn't his first dance with SF).
 
user55340
Hopeless was, to an extent, a scapegoat for an inactive community.
 
gotcha
 
user41796
4:33 PM
@durron597 In general, I don't bother to spare those anymore. Oftentimes the review queue is deep and I view "Leave Open" as a wasted vote from the day. I skip those and hope others do the same.
 
@RobertHarvey You forgot about the part where there was seven months of separation between the discussion and the deletions.
 
Yeah, that too.
 
user55340
His election was in part the dissatisfaction with the lack of reviews people were doing.
 
user41796
@MichaelT would "anemic community" be a better description?
 
Looks like they even provided an illustration of the technique.
 
4:34 PM
@MichaelT I think we should have platinum badges. Specifically for things like 5000 votes in close votes, etc.
 
user114359
This drama is one reason why I am happy not to moderate anything. The most damage I can do is move a question 20% of the way toward being put "on hold"
 
user55340
Elect a mod who will delete / close all the things so we don't have to.
 
402
Q: Let's burn down the close queue!

Shog9 Stage 2 completed: The initial phase of the burndown was completed on 2014-03-03 10:48:49; the second phase completed on 2014-03-08 at 19:41. Detailed statistics on how these played out can be found on Phase 1 results and Phase 2 results. There remains much work to be done! You can find r...

@MichaelT Because they don't enjoy spending time on the site. Because they don't enjoy working to make it better
I find working to make Programmers better rewarding. I don't feel the nearly same about SO and I feel even worse about SF
 
SF doesn't start from a position of helpfulness.
 
user114359
4:39 PM
@durron597 this is why Programmers is the Goldilocks of SE: not too busy, not too quiet. Not too much drama, not too businesslike. It is a happy medium, and by definition blocks the "fix my code" questions that I get enough of at work.
 
SO is different now than it used to be. Due to the focus on "What have you tried?" it has evolved into a troubleshooting site, and many of the regulars don't find that interesting.
Especially if the troubleshooting is on code that should just be rewritten.
 
SO is "fix this code for me" basically
 
@RobertHarvey Write my code for me isn't interesting, either.
Adding good questions to SO is like farming for bitcoins. Easy at first, harder as the problem space gets filled
 
@durron597 But far more interesting than "fix this code for me." At least "Write my code for me" collects useful snippets of code. "Fix this code for me" accomplishes nothing for anyone but the OP.
 
@RobertHarvey I never thought about "What have you tried?" that way
You make an excellent point.
 
4:47 PM
I warned them about that a long time ago, but nobody would listen.
 
Write my code for me is a lot more rewarding when it shows that the asker has actually thought about the problem, though.
 
Well, some questions are better than others. If it's just "How to reverse a string..."
That's why I'm digging GeeksForGeeks. It's filled with icanhazcodez from a CS perspective.
 
So in that exception question, the whole idea of logs that aren't human readable.
That really does change things.
 
For some quantity of "human readable?"
I think the point there is that some information should be publically available in the error message, and some information should be private in the trace logs.
 
Yes. But the whole idea of binary or otherwise encoded log files that can't be readily used without a viewer allows you to move construction of the error message to somepalce else.
Although it would be harder in Java than (from what I understand based on your comments) than C#, where exceptions contain exception-specific attributes of interest.
 
user114359
4:53 PM
@ThomasOwens Java exceptions certainly can include exception-specific data, some do. Example: SQLException.
 
Some do, but not all. For example, a FileNotFoundException does not contain the File object or String path that wasn't found.
 
Well, there's no answer to the "why" question. Because they didn't. Because their aunt was in from out of town, and they didn't have time.
 
@ThomasOwens Ughhhh don't remind me. Fortunately I only ever use ClassLoader.getResourceAsStream these days
@RobertHarvey Wouldn't that be a reason to work late?
 
More Java exceptions should be like SQLException.
 
@durron597 It would be a reason to include language in the coding standards that would insure this occurs, enforced in code reviews. I said as much in my answer, before I deleted it.
 
user114359
5:01 PM
I decided that I may as well get a doctorate. I need references, so I asked professors from my M.S. program. One replied that if I write a draft letter he will finish it up and sign it. What do I say? I have never written this type of letter before.
 
user114359
Should I write a novel about how awesome I am?
 
A letter for what? Submission to a college?
 
user114359
Yes, to be admitted for a doctorate (software engineering)
 
Oops, psychology.
But, the principles should be similar.
 
user114359
I couldn't find much. Plenty of job reference letters from professors, but not much for education
 
5:03 PM
There's a bunch of bullet points on the second page under the heading "Usually graduate and professional schools are interested in the following: "
 
@Snowman - This seems like a question for academia.stackexchange.com
if there's not already one.
 
user114359
I think that is more like an admission essay guide though
 
are you planning on doing a PhD while working FT?
 
@Snowman Where do you want to go? And what part of software engineering do you want to study?
 
user41796
5:04 PM
@Snowman call out industry credentials and experience; call out you academic record; call out ability to perform research
 
jinx
 
user114359
overwhelmed...
 
30
Q: What does it mean if a professor asks you to draft his reference letter for you?

ChouThis question is, honestly speaking, probably somewhat opinion-based, but I still want to give a shot. A professor acceded to my invitation of writing a reference letter for me. Nevertheless, unlike the other professors who also acceded to write a reference letter for me, he asked me to draft it...

 
user114359
Keep in mind this is me writing a letter from the perspective of my professor
 
5:06 PM
You probably have to be local for a PhD program, don't you? It's not really a distance thing.
 
user114359
The degree is actually a a Doctor of Engineering in Electrical and Computer Engineering, with a concentration in Software Engineering
 
user114359
I'll be local at Cleveland State University
 
was your masters thesis based or coursework based?
 
@Snowman Good luck.
 
Question, for all the veteran programmers. Do problems of the type that can be found on HackerRank and Geeks for Geeks get you excited?
 
user114359
5:09 PM
I had a thesis option but declined upon the recommendation of a professor. He said a 3 SH thesis is nothing compared to the 30 hours of theses and dissertation later on, pretty much not worth it.
 
Things like: Assign directions to edges so that the directed graph remains acyclic.
 
@Snowman did you read that question?
 
Or: Recursively print all sentences that can be formed from list of word lists.
 
user114359
@RobertHarvey I haven't checked those sites yet, but I like taking a theoretical problem and coding it. E.g. I love project Euler.
 
user114359
@durron597 yes, still reading through the answers and comments.
 
5:11 PM
@RobertHarvey Some questions yes, others no. I don't know the secret sauce that distinguishes
 
@Snowman keep in mind thesis based PhD is a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooot different than coursework based
 
user114359
@enderland My M.S. takes care of most of the coursework for the doctorate. I have a few engineering classes to take (B.S. and M.S. are both in C.S.) and three core courses. Then it is all research and dissertation.
 
What is your research topic?
 
user114359
I have to be published in a peer-reviewed journal to graduate too.
 
@enderland Is there such a thing as a coursework based PhD?
 
5:15 PM
what topic do you want to research and why?
 
I've heard of course versus thesis Masters programs, but not PhD programs.
 
@ThomasOwens no, but there are masters ones which do not require research. the research environment is black/white different from coursework (for masters) though, so I'm trying to figure out if snowman realizes that :P
 
user114359
@RobertHarvey no topic yet, but I am thinking of something to do with development methodologies: waterfall -> iterative/spiral -> agile -> ???
 
user114359
I realize that
 
user114359
I have had many discussions with my graduate professors about what I want to do, what it is like going through a doctoral program, etc.
 
5:17 PM
Good
 
user114359
@durron597 while that question does not match mine (how do I draft this letter) the answers do provide a lot of useful insight, thanks.
 
5:33 PM
@Snowman Every time I go to academia stack exchange I'm happy with the results. A great site.
There may be another question that is more similar to yours there
 
user114359
@durron597 what I am looking for is essentially a resource request, which is off-topic pretty much everywhere
 
This doesn't happen every day: SE developer says to me "this post was way ahead of it's time"
7
Q: Reduce number of taps to get to commonly used screens

durron597So I open the app fresh, and it opens me to the feed page. The feed page has "hot" and "interesting" using half the real estate, except the interesting section has 5 sites that I do not use, I've only been to one of them once. But that's a topic for another thread. So I use two taps to scroll ov...

 
user114359
Hence me bringing it up in chat, not asking a question
 
user41796
@Snowman I think the 2nd answer on that link from durron597 captures a lot of the points you want to consider
 
user41796
Probably as close to a "how do I..." as you're going to get even though the author is trying to point out why you shouldn't.
 
user114359
5:41 PM
@GlenH7 that was a helpful answer, and I made the same observations you did. Still, I think his point that I shouldn't is less of an issue since I am applying at a state university that is not all that prestigious.
 
user114359
Also, I am applying for a D.Eng at the same university that conferred a M.S. to me.
 
user114359
Not like I am cheesing my way into MIT
 
user41796
Agreed. That author struck me as what I consider a "career academic" - one who teaches but is more interested in climbing the perceived career ladder at their institution and then elsewhere.
 
> Nominations close in 2 hours. (cc: @ThomasOwens)
 
@Snowman Well, you should cheese your way into MIT. Then, you can have beers with me. I'm moving to a 0.5 mile walk + 5 stops from MIT this summer. That actually makes it more reasonable for me to look at more schools that don't do distance education for my Masters.
 
user41796
5:50 PM
@ThomasOwens just new digs or a new job too?
 
@GlenH7 Just a new apartment.
I like my current job 90% of the time.
 
user41796
Can be good to change up the living space
 
user41796
And it sounds like you're well into the black on the 60/40 rule then.
 
Yeah. Although I wonder what this will do to recruiters. I've known people who have been told that living <1 hour away from Boston is too far for companies to take a chance on and they were actively looking for work.
 
user41796
That seems like kind of a weird locale imbalance
 
5:53 PM
Well, the commute from the north to Boston is hellish.
It takes me about 36 minutes to drive from my apartment to the northernmost station on a weekend. 1 hour by 7:30 AM, upwards of 1:45 by 8:30 AM. So maybe they are worried about people not getting the morning rush commute and quitting quickly?
 
user41796
I can understand that. Most of my life, I've lived in places where the commute is tolerable / can be relatively easily managed.
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens In previous gigs, eyebrows were raised when the applicant lived in a town that was ~45 mins away. Seemed like more of a commute than most would put up with. But I knew of a Supervisor who did that exact route daily.
 
user41796
Knew another one who had closer to an hour+ commute. Definitely the exception rather than the rule.
 
I'll have a reverse commute. Actually, all commutes get easier. The government, aerospace, and defense jobs are mostly north of the city. I'm a 1/2 mile walk from a station to get on various forms of public transit.
So really, if I ever do leave my job, I do have plenty of options open to me. Plus the easier access to schools for continuing education. And lots of conferences come to Boston.
No matter what happens, I win.
 
VTC: we are not your debugger.
 
user41796
5:59 PM
@Telastyn I like to use "Unclear what you're asking" for those
 
Does the question need improvement for SO? It's a relatively short code sample.
And the problem is stated clearly.
 
sadly, it's clear what they want.
I would at least fix the English
and I'm no VB expert, but I think it's not complete
and it smells of homework
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens Needs improvement for SO
 
Already gone
 
user41796
No debug info; no actual error messages; no output provided. Bad SO question to my understanding.
 
6:02 PM
Gotdangit I don't care about these chat flags in other rooms
 
user41796
 
user41796
@durron597 Weird, I'm not seeing them today
 
6:17 PM
Part of me wants to take that idea of logging as a stream into which the application serializes debug information and implement it using the Java Logging API (so it can be plugged into the common logging frameworks).
I don't see such an implementation as part of log4j or the standard Java loggers.
 
@GlenH7 Not Q-banned.
Who gets to see the Q-bans? Is it just mods, or also high-rep users?
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey Wonder if they figured they would try elsewhere given their 3 Q's there were all down voted.
 
user41796
@RobertHarvey Just mods
 
Q-bans are not permanent anymore.
 
user41796
I put a request in on the 30k tools to be able to see q-bans on related sites. Doubt it will be implemented though
 
6:20 PM
@GlenH7 Even mods can't see qbans on related sites.
Makes me sad that mod tools don't go across sites.
Although most would be useless.
 
user41796
Would be nice to be able to see deleted posts across all sites
 
user114359
If there is a migration path between two sites, mods should be able to see Q-bans. Or the system should pop up a warning in the VTC box for anyone who might vote.
 
6:33 PM
see? that one I can vote to migrate.
 
Primary voting in 1 hour?
 
6:50 PM
This is not a question for stack overflow. It may possibly be suited for StackExchange/Programmers but not here. On that note, you will almost inevitably use Google for research needs, however I am partial to paper books and will always recommend them. Having an environment to work in is probably the second most important thing to consider since hands on experience is very helpful for any field. — CalebB 52 secs ago
 
user41796
@ThomasOwens yeah, but who really cares? It's just SO... <trolling/>
 
p.se shows how important it is to understand what you are writing code for, because misunderstanding the logic results in poor code
0
A: Ant colony algorithm

enderlandThis isn't how ACO works. ACO only drops pheromones after ants have moved across all the points in the grid. You then evaluate something (perhaps total travel time) and then drop pheromones for good ants, and repeat. They don't move to the same vertex twice, generally, though you can customize ...

they are writing the wrong code. lol
 
7:13 PM
Never thought I'd see the word "pheromone" on a programming site.
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey new type of code smell.
 
my thesis was pheromone optimizations
@MichaelT i see what you did there
 
"What is the name of this thing" questions are controversial; most of the time, the asker is using programmers as a dictionary or thesaurus to get the "official term" so that they can go look it up and get their information somewhere else. That's not really why we're here, and such questions seldom help anyone but the person asking them. See also: On the troubles of naming and terminologyRobert Harvey 3 mins ago
 
user55340
@enderland what is the best cologne for a programmer to wear to find a significant other?
 
user114359
@MichaelT anything bacon-scented
 
user55340
7:23 PM
So that's why I have a cat...
 
Why did DeadMG get suspended?
 
user55340
That would have been my guess. Don't see / know of other user accessible info. Just that he can argue in comments quite often and has dogmatic ideas on C++ principles.
 
user55340
One more vote on the antisocial question please.
 
user55340
Never mind. It got it.
 
user114359
@MichaelT I am out of ammo for a few more hours :-(
 
user55340
7:31 PM
I do like the non cabal close voters on that one.
 
user55340
(TINC)
 
user55340
Remember that I am old. Here is some history.
 
user55340
There Is No Cabal is a catchphrase used on Usenet. Its common abbreviation, TINC, is used humorously to suggest that people should lighten up and not see a conspiracy around every corner. It is alternatively used as a pseudo-ironic statement, since presumably an insider or someone who knows "the cabal" would inevitably deny that there is a cabal. It was used extensively by members of the backbone cabal. As Usenet has few technologically or legally enforced hierarchies, nearly the only ones that formed were social hierarchies. People exerted power through force of will (often via intimidating flames...
 
"Programmers Stack Exchange requires external JavaScript from another domain, which is blocked or failed to load."
o_o
 
Don't try to bend the cabal. That's impossible. Instead, try to realize the truth: there is no cabal.
 
user55340
7:37 PM
The Lumber Cartel was a facetious conspiracy theory popularized on USENET that claimed anti-spammers were secretly paid agents of lumber companies. In November 1997, a participant on news.admin.net-abuse.email posted an essay to the newsgroup. The essay described a conspiracy theory: The reasoning provided in the essay was that certain companies first destroy forests and make paper out of them, which is in turn used to send bulk mail. Since sending e-mail spam doesn't use paper at all, the essay argued, the lumber companies would want to stop it before it would surpass paper-based bulk mailing...
 
user114359
 
user55340
They were interesting times.
 
@MichaelT such an organized meme, almost as if it was constructed by a well todo interested party...
 
user114359
@JimmyHoffa Only the teamsters union could pull off something that organized.
 
@RobertHarvey animuson was hired by SO. I hope you're next!
 
user55340
7:42 PM
@JimmyHoffa the power companies who sold all those electrons. Both for the spam and the endless chasing of the lumber cartel.
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey I really wish for the meta policy historical lock.
 
@MichaelT it's all been orchestrated by the union of concerned oceanographers, contrary to the name it's actually a small consortium of independent lumberjacks. Their misdirection is supreme.
 
Wow. Ran out of CVs on SO today.
Spending all this time over here makes me miss the 10k tools. It's fun going through the list of questions with 4 CVs and yelling BOOM
 
7:58 PM
> Nominations close in 1 minute.
 
@YannisRizos Time to squeak in under the radar!!
 
49 seconds!
 
> Nominations close just now
Perfect timing.
 
I'm at 7!
 
oh neat you can downvote people
 
8:05 PM
Still can't vote because JavaScript refuses to load, except randomly.
 
user55340
Martijn is at +63/-0 +84/-0
 
My bets are on Martijn and Undo getting mod positions. The third seat is, as far as I can tell, up for grabs.
 
Martijn already over 100.
 
Good Lord, voting happens fast in primaries.
 
Second Rikudo more likely than Undo, IMO. they could both win ofc
 
user15026
8:07 PM
Nah, I see Undo getting a lot more support than Second Rikudo
 
user114359
The first guy shows up as +19 -17 = 0. eh?
 
I'm having a respectable showing, I think.
 
Negative numbers are not shown in the primaries.
 
meagar has a ton of support too
 
user114359
I voted for @ThomasOwens because "...I can handle the relationship with the other software development related sites, such as Programmers..."
 
8:09 PM
as does Jon Clements
 
user114359
Odd, when I click on a score I get the + and -
 
Yeah...
 
user55340
Remember the analysis of how @AshleyNunn was elected when it gets to that phase.
 
@durron597 That's because he has the best campaign poster:
 
@Snowman You have sufficient rep on SO to do that, apparently.
 
8:11 PM
Wow. Unihedro is +23/-23
 
user15026
@MichaelT Yeah, I am kinda proof that things can go how people don't expect if they get complacent.
 
user15026
(which makes me feel like crap, but hey, diamond.)
 
user15026
Anyway. I was going to make cake like 20 minutes ago. I should do that.
 
user55340
It's more "the order of votes cast is important "
 
@MichaelT I'm not active enough in arqade to know that story. Link?
 
user15026
8:13 PM
@durron597 Basically, I got a lot of second/third place votes and got in over people who got more 1st place votes than me. People called for a recount, for me being impeached, etc.
 
user55340
Ashley had more 1st choice votes than the other candidate. I'll dig when I get home.
 
user55340
You had more.
 
user15026
@MichaelT I thought it was the 2nd/3rds?
 
user15026
I don't remember.
 
user15026
Either way, no one expected it, and a bunch of people were....less than happy.
 
user55340
8:14 PM
Other way around. The vote math is fun. When it comes to fractional votes.
 
user15026
So make sure you use your votes in order of your choices.
 
user15026
@MichaelT I remember I ran it like 4 times to make it be "real" to me.
 
user15026
Because the first person to tell me is someone who can sometimes troll people. :P
 
Is there a free way to view the election data?
I don't care enough to pay them $5
 
user55340
Because the Ashley votes were first choice they were 1.00 votes. Other people were "first choice to sure thing, second to another person". Then they got fractional votes.
 
user55340
8:16 PM
As others were eliminated with Ashley in 2nd or third, she got full votes there too.
 
Yeah, I'm considering not voting for Martijn for this reason
even though he is my first choice in reality
 
user15026
@durron597 I just use the OpenSTV thing to run the data
 
openstv wants $5 from me
 
user15026
@durron597 huh.
 
user55340
@durron597 follow link from site where you can vote.
 
8:17 PM
@MichaelT Yes, that sends me to a page that wants $5
 
user55340
6
Q: Election application from Open STV isn't free anymore

MichaelTWith an election: Download the election data and use OpenSTV to audit the results. Previously, this was a free to download application. It isn't anymore. ... To support continued development, OpenSTV is now available under a restrictive license. The license is for one year with p...

 
Oh, I don't have enough arqade rep to vote I guess
 
user55340
You can find it on a P.se election page.
 
the link on the SO page worked.
 
user15026
Then just grab the data, and then you can watch the glory that is "the thing that should not have been", as it were ;)
 
user55340
8:24 PM
@RobertHarvey is the new Java loop question asker qbanned on SO?
 
Okay, I got it, it looks like you were winning the whole way through
I don't understand.
And, whatever, StrixVaria was made mod later anyways.
 
user55340
Fewer people voted though.
 
user15026
@durron597 Yeah, when Mana and Agent stepped down.
 
user41796
@MichaelT Direct link to their account: stackoverflow.com/users/3986845/connor-wright
 
user55340
As I said, when I get home more on it.
 
8:26 PM
@MichaelT Migrate it, and find out. :)
 
user55340
Out of votes.
 
Okay, so you got 175 total votes and Strix got 200. Well, they should have voted for Strix first choice then ;)
 
user55340
Exactly.
 
user41796
The Java implementation question needs two more VT-migrate to get migrated to SO
 
52 > 33, 58 < 91, 65 < 76 (first, second, third)
 
user55340
8:29 PM
So, vote in the order of preference, not the order of likelihood.
 
user55340
Vote for Martijn if you want him a mod, but if you want someone else a mod more, vote for them instead.
 
user55340
... As first choice.
 
so only 2 people are getting eliminated this round
 
Martijin is so obviously going to win that I may not vote for him at all. Of course, if everyone thinks like I do...
 
user55340
Mmm. Alpha by Vangilis.
 
8:32 PM
Martijn over 1k
 
@durron597 People have lost that way before.
 
user15026
@durron597 Exactly. And they didn't, thinking he would win over me easily.
 
meagar in second.
 
user15026
Oh well. I've got the diamond, so does he, and most of the people who raised hte biggest stink aren't around anymore
 
user55340
 
8:34 PM
You don't waste your votes with STV anyway. If you think Martijn should be one of the mods, you should cast a vote for him.
@MichaelT Vangelis is a band I've always wanted to like. Sadly, most of their music strikes me as "almost, but not quite."
 
Yeah, I should probably vote for Martijn because he's the only "clear, without a doubt" person
all the other top contenders i waver back and forth about. too many good candidates, i want them all to win haha
 
/me abstains.
 
Undo seems level-headed.
 
@RobertHarvey I want Undo to be the first User MSE mod
 
user15026
I can't vote, so I am just watching from the sidelines.
 
8:37 PM
but SO?
 
user55340
@RobertHarvey I like some of his music more than others. Alpha is a good one. I also recommend heaven and hell.
 
One of the things that Shog9 was talking about on that 30K post on meta was spreading the moderation wealth to a larger number of participants than the high-rep users. The problem is that the vast majority of site users are not interested whatsoever in moderation of any kind, which is why the high-rep users need stronger hammers.
 
user114359
How much rep do we need to vote?
 
user41796
@Snowman 300 on the site, I think
 
15
Q: 2015 Moderator Election Q&A - Questionnaire

Grace NoteIn connection with the moderator elections, we are holding a Q&A thread for the candidates. Questions collected from an earlier thread have been compiled into this one, which shall now serve as the space for the candidates to provide their answers. Not every question was compiled - however, we're...

 
8:59 PM
Working on it now.
 
psr
9:46 PM
@AshleyNunn Well, I think someone getting a large percentage of 2nd and 3rd votes is likely to work out better as a mod than someone with more 1st place votes, but more people really not wanting them at all.
 
user15026
@psr Maybe. Like I know there was that contingent unhappy with me getting it over Strix and so on, but whatever. It's done, people learned a valuable thing about how to use their votes
 
well sent back the offer letter (signed)... guess that ends a yearlong saga in my life, ha
2
 
@enderland Grats!!
 
10:23 PM
2 hours ago, by durron597
Yeah, I'm considering not voting for Martijn for this reason
not sure how to link all the stuff around this comment for context, but anyway; why is the handling of fractional votes a reason not to vote for someone? I think I'm missing something there
 
user15026
@enderland Awesome :D
 
@Ixrec The reason is that I know Martijn will win anyway, so I want to have the most possible votes for candidates that aren't Martijn
let's say the threshhold is 100 and martijn gets 50 votes, one of which are mine
this means 50% of my remaining vote goes to my other candidates
but if i vote for, say, Thomas Owens, then 100% of my vote goes to him instead of 50%, and the other 99 people who voted for Martijn get 49/99 of their vote to their other candidates
so, basically, I steal a tiny fraction of the all the Martijn voters influence by not voting for him... unless too many people don't vote for him and he loses, which would not be my optimal outcome
 
 
2 hours later…
user55340
11:59 PM
So, @Ixrec here's the election analysis that brought @AshleyNunn into being a mod:
 
user55340
38
Q: 2014 Community Moderator Election Results

Grace NoteArqade's 4th moderator election has come to a close, the votes have been tallied, and the 3 new moderators are: Congratulations, you three! They'll be joining our existing crew shortly — please thank them for volunteering, and share your assistance and advice with them as they learn the ro...

 
user15026
@MichaelT Oh, we're still discussing that?
 
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