The Whiteboard

Jimmy Hoffa

12:16 AM

If you want to pull stuff out with the DOM, just press F12 and start diddling with the DOM in javascript right there.

no xpath or garbage needed, JavaScript really is good for messing about with HTML... (it's sort of what it's there for)

Stack Exchange

1:59 AM

The Codeless Code: Case 164: Paradox

posted on September 30, 2014

One day, the Temple awoke to discover that its databases had been hacked. The intrusion was traced to a web application that had recently been updated by a certain monk. The monk was fetched by two Temple guards to explain himself to the Abbess. As the guards marched the miserable monk up the tower stairs, they passed old master Banzen on the landing. Taking pity on the boy, the master …

Ampt

2:17 PM

@JimmyHoffa Did you really just recommend Ruby?

@MichaelT Python is always the answer. I don't care what the questions is.

@MichaelT Shut the Front door. Since when?!

@MichaelT What is this, a brewery for ants?

durron597

2:52 PM

So I put a bounty on my question and I got one answer that told me to make my objects stateful and another answer that addresses a problem that doesn't even exist (and totally ignores my question).

Ampt

3:15 PM

Hey, no one said putting a bounty on a question would bring the kind of attention you wanted :)

@enderland always more stuff :D

durron597

@Ampt But I know that most people who frequent this room (especially @GlenH7) could give me a really good answer :-P

Ampt

@durron597 Hmm... That whole setup kind of smells to me, but without enough background I'm not sure I know whether that's OK or not

aren't hybrids kind of the point of object oriented programming?

An object contains the data pertaining to it, and the methods to manipulate/use that data

amon

@durron597 I found the question kinda difficult to parse, and only understood it during the process of understanding why the answers weren't useful.

Ampt

It seems like you want to have a procedural programming perspective in an object oriented language

durron597

@amon I can see why that would be. How would you improve it?

The problem is essentially this: I see why removing state from objects that do things is valuable. But I don't really understand the concept well enough to know when I should be making exceptions

Ampt

3:29 PM

@durron597 I think you're designing for a problem you haven't had yet in anticipation of having the problem.

Does that make sense?

durron597

@Ampt Almost correct. I'm designing for a problem I've had in the past that I no longer have now and want to prevent having in the future

Ampt

I don't mean to offend :)

Just trying to help. When I get into situations like this, I've often found that I've made the design problem a few steps back, and am trying to fix it now.

Usually it's better to go back and figure out what went wrong.

but that's just been my experience.

Your mileage may vary of course.

durron597

No, you didn't offend, sorry if I communicated that - hard to hear "tone of voice" in text

I feel like I'm on the verge of mastering SRP, Law of Demeter, encapsulation... I'm trying to go from (in my opinion) from intermediate understanding to advanced

it's not just "separate your concerns" it's about saying "you know what, this looks like a code smell but it's actually the right thing to do here"

Ampt

You have the opposite problem of me then :) Every step i take forward I realize how far behind I am.

durron597

@Ampt heh. or maybe i'm just more arrogant than you :-P

Ampt

3:34 PM

@durron597 Yeah I agree. It's just hard to convey the right information about the problem

So the code you provided is in your worker object

and that literally holds a reference to a data object

for its exclusive use?

durron597

no

Ampt

I just saw this.data.handleTrade(trade);

so can data be shared then?

durron597

other objects call the getters of the data object

Ampt

so a data object is nothing but getters and setters?

or are data objects immutable and only have getters?

durron597

this is code in an automated trading application

Ampt

3:38 PM

I'm guessing stock market trades right?

durron597

yes

Ampt

ok. Understandable

durron597

the data object contains information about the state of the universe

like, what's happened recently in the market

the class with the code snippet is responsible for updating the state of the universe, doing a little math, etc.

enderland

@Ampt ?

Oh. But I don't want anything lol

and I intend to buy everything which doesn't get gifted, anyways

which at this rate won't be anything bwahahaha

Ampt

@enderland Alright, I'll send you a list and an address.

enderland

3:39 PM

we'll send the bobcats there

Ampt

@durron597 Ok. So you've got a few of these worker classes going around updating the universe then

durron597

@Ampt You know what it's like actually? It's like the class with pasted code is a Controller class

and the data class is like a Model class

from MVC

Ampt

Yeah that's kind of how it felt.

durron597

but is updateRun a model task or a controller task?

brb boss needs me

Ampt

so what does handletrade do?

on the data?

@enderland Oh! I was looking at one of those new T750s! The lifting power is immense, and the tracks are great for getting unstuck just about anywhere! I'll start clearing out a spot in the garage, thanks!

They are awesome machines, if you've got the cash lol.

enderland

3:50 PM

Yeah, I didn't even realize until college that "skid steer" is the generic name for a "Bobcat"

Ampt

Haha yeah they own that market like Kleenex owns the tissue market

enderland

Yeah, plus I think they just look nice. Most of the other competitors look... funky

durron597

@Ampt Handle trade is a setter for getLastTrade and it also forwards the trade update to some other Model objects that do math

Honestly updateRun could be one of those Model Objects, maybe that's the problem.

durron597

4:05 PM

@amon That is what I was looking for. I'll probably give you the bounty but I'm going to wait to give others a chance to answer also. (The upvote is mine)

Ampt

Yeah I like that solution

Yeah leave the bounty

see what people are working on.

durron597

4:23 PM

So I guess the one sentence question I'm really really asking is "can you add behavior to a 'data structure' without it being a 'hybrid object' - if you know what you're doing"

and amon's answer is "yes"

I've moved some methods into the data class, and the code looks so much cleaner now

and encapsulated better. i've entirely removed the setAggressor method for example

Ampt

4:35 PM

Well, to save you the trouble in the future, I, Ampt of The Whiteboard, hereby give one (1) durron597 authority to do as he pleases, whenever he shall desire, with whatever code is henceforth in his ownership.

durron597

@Ampt Oh great, now I can create that singleton AllTheData god object I always wanted. Thanks!

Ampt

@durron597 With great power comes great abuse.

At least that's what I think Uncle Ben said... He was kind of gasping at the time.

durron597

@Ampt Also this foo.x = foo.x idea sounds really cool, now I can finally do it!

Ampt

@durron597 Like I said, you can do whatever you want!

Robert Harvey

5:35 PM

I knew that looked familiar.

user55340

6:09 PM

@Ampt An art project that was to make the process of making beer into something that one could use as a conversation starter in your living room.

user55340

@durron597 I've worked with code like that before in Java. The setFoo(arg) function wasn't just a setter for Foo, but also flipped the state in the object so that setFoo again would do something different like setting Bar instead... and would error out if you called it a third time. Fun code.

durron597

@MichaelT Yeah, but this: chat.stackexchange.com/transcript/message/18131308#18131308

user55340

btw, @AJHenderson regarding Moderators.SE, have you ever explored the Meatball Wiki? When C2.com started getting encumbered with non-programing things, the community split into multiple wikis. One of them was Meatball for things of virtual communities. If nothing else, the resources at meatballwiki.org/wiki/MeatballAlternatives will be useful. You also get things like meatballwiki.org/wiki/WhatIsaTroll

durron597

Model objects can and should have method logic

Ampt

@MichaelT Meta^3?

durron597

6:20 PM

@Ampt That's what she said

user55340

10

Q: Reccuring dialogue "That's what she said"?

In the US version of TV show "The Office", many characters keep saying the tagline "That's what she said". There is even a t-shirt on the official store. I never actually understood this punchline as they say it in unrelated scenarios. What is the meaning of this punchline?

user55340

@Ampt Its infinitely recursive in places.

durron597

@MichaelT Ah, Hofstadter's genie

@MichaelT The office does not get credit for that joke. Teenage durron597 was giggling and making others giggle with that joke before the Office even existed (we don't get credit for it either)

user55340

@durron597 The origins of it are much older.

user55340

Said the actress to the bishop

"Said the actress to the bishop" is an informal (and usually vulgar) exclamation, said for humour in the form of a punch line after an inadvertent double entendre. The equivalent phrase in North America is "that's what she said". Both phrases are examples of Wellerisms, a literal "turn" of a phrase, changing its meaning. The versatility of the phrase and its popularity lead some to consider it a cliché. == History and background == === "Said the actress to the bishop" === The term, or its variant "as the actress said to the bishop", may have been used as far back as Edwardian times, and...

durron597

6:23 PM

Indeed.

None of this denies the fact that it was eminently appropriate for that particular memepic.

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT If you have to explain it, it's no longer funny.

Ampt

@RobertHarvey Psh, she definitely didn't say that.

Robert Harvey

If you have to explain it, it's no longer sexy.

Fold flap A into slot B

Ampt

Wait, it's supposed to fold?

Robert Harvey

rofl

Ampt

6:29 PM

Well that link is definitely staying blue forever.

user55340

And at times like these, be glad there's not a Medical.SE which one could link to instead.

Ampt

Crowd sourcing your diagnosis from SE: What could possibly go wrong?

user55340

@Ampt Its... blue humor?

durron597

at times like this i consider bothering to answer enough questions to get 3k rep on here

and then i recall that i won't even bother to get my last 400 rep on SO for 10k

(or is it 10k to see deleted chat messages)

Ampt

Room owners and mods

nothing to do with rep

durron597

6:31 PM

oh

Ampt

apparently if you hang around enough, one of the triumvirate will make you a room owner.

user55340

@durron597 Lets say look up 'fracture' and another word for male anatomy.

durron597

"Well that link is definitely staying blue forever." +1

Ampt

In reality, the rest of us are just the background character for a sitcom revolving around this chat room. And before you ask, yes, there's a laugh track.

enderland

[AUTO REPLY] lol!

user55340

6:33 PM

Anyways... need another topic.

durron597

@Ampt You just reminded me I need to catch up on Big Bang Theory

Ampt

lets see: Not friday, so no beer.

durron597

i'm about 1.25 seasons behind at the moment

user55340

@Ampt Its always time for beer.

Ampt

we already did parsing HTML with regex

Robert Harvey

6:34 PM

Does anyone else have Columbus Day off?

Ampt

Do I look like a teacher/Government worker?

durron597

lol, my office doesn't even close on thanksgiving

user55340

@RobertHarvey I do!

Robert Harvey

Shaddup, nobody asked you. :P

Ampt

@MichaelT Ugh you get all the vacation days

durron597

6:35 PM

we even need someone to be here the morning of christmas eve

Robert Harvey

Although I may be joining the ranks of the unemployed pretty soon.

user55340

@RobertHarvey Look at it as an unpaid sabbatical.

Robert Harvey

I actually think I'm going to like it. For awhile.

durron597

@MichaelT Hey @MichaelT I took a long break from this chatroom, how'd / how's your job search going?

user55340

It depends on what you do with your time. Me? Photography and home repair.

user55340

6:36 PM

@durron597 Sending one in today that I just found late last week: ohr.wisc.edu/WebListing/Unclassified/…

enderland

I'm taking monday/friday off all month. #partofthecoolclub

Robert Harvey

Anyway, schools don't give Columbus Day off anymore. I think they lump all the minor holidays into "old, dead white guys day" now. (President's Day?)

Meaning, I have the day off, my wife doesn't.

durron597

@enderland I need to become such a Workplace pro that I can figure out how to finagle that

user55340

@Shog9 btw, it was a cherry lambic that I had. Quite good (fruit lambics are a good tie for ciders when I'm out)

user55340

enderland

6:38 PM

@durron597 it's easy if you don't also require being paid :P

Ampt

@RobertHarvey Wait, are you saying that mods don't get paid by SE?

user55340

(I think I've had this before too...

user55340

enderland

@Ampt dont get my hopes up...

Robert Harvey

@Ampt Sure they do. In fact, they double my salary every month.

So I can afford a shrink.

user55340

6:39 PM

... ok, now I want it to be a warm day instead of cold:

user55340

durron597

For any unemployed P.SE frequenters who wouldn't mind living in Houston: careers.stackoverflow.com/jobs/70406/…

user55340

... and now I really want it to be warm... theicecreambar.com/frozen_pint/peach-lambic

Robert Harvey

What company writes their high-frequency trading system in Java?

enderland

@RobertHarvey on linux!

user55340

6:41 PM

@RobertHarvey martinfowler.com/articles/lmax.html

Robert Harvey

That's like running the Indy 500 with a Prius.

user55340

@WorldEngineer You need to make a pilgrimage, find some, and tell me how it is: theicecreambar.com/locate

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT I've seen that article. Very interested in the disruptor. That they're using Java, not so much.

user55340

@RobertHarvey The thing to take away from that is there are a lot of things that one can do to speed up java if you are willing to do some... less conventional things.

user55340

Like making a hash table that uses long rather than Long

Robert Harvey

6:43 PM

Yeah, but if you're going to go unconventional, why stay with Java?

Ampt

@RobertHarvey Because Cobol will awaken HIM.

user55340

Because its easily deployable in many places... and when you aren't after that aspect of the speed has a good amount of libraries that allows to use it as the glue in an enterprise solution.

Robert Harvey

So you use Java/Linux because you can make cheap processor clusters with it, like Google does? That kinda makes sense.

user55340

The contortions to make Java fast in those situations are more of 'lets think about how things work' than 'lets try to get our team that knows Java deeply to write some C++ or C or Erlang...'

Robert Harvey

Alright, I can see that.

user55340

6:46 PM

The technology switch to get to the same level of expertise and performance would take longer... and well, you don't often hear about scalable clustering with C or C++. I'm sure it exists, but its not something you'll be able to pull in experts for or easily train within your own organization.

user55340

In C++, if its not in std, boost, or qt (or those standard gotos for C++ types); chances are it was written locally.

user55340

And then its in house for that system and that architecture and will be useless when someone else tries to make serious use of it beyond the "well, there are ideas there that we could use to write our own custom library..."

Robert Harvey

That, and you'd have to put up with the C++ divas. :)

Would a blub programmer understand the architecture enough to work in it?

user55340

There are talented people and one would assume that the architect level of the organization would be able to understand it... but its the 'reinvent the wheel' philosophy that exists within many organizations that makes it difficult.

Robert Harvey

I'm still reeling over the idea that I could possibly make a better income if I dumbed myself down.

user55340

6:51 PM

Java, when you are working with a process/organization that allows for "use the libraries" makes things much easier.

user55340

Outside of homework, you rarely hear the "but I can't use the maven repo" for "how do I do this" type questions. Compare with perl (which has a wonderful CPAN) where it isn't uncommon to get SO questions of "how do I do this without using a CPAN library"

user55340

But when it comes to C++, its either use std, boost, qt, or write it yourself.

Ampt

@RobertHarvey I think it's more "You have to work with a 30 year old legacy C++ app but get paid a lot" or "You get to work with a new language on a brand new code base but don't get paid as much"

supply and demand

if people liked programming in 30+ year old C++/Cobol code bases, it would pay a lot less

Robert Harvey

So it comes back to leverage, then. You need to own the product, not be writing it (or maintaining it) for someone else.

enderland

@Ampt there is probably a fair bit of business experience which is really helpful when dealing with users/codebases like that

user55340

6:54 PM

@RobertHarvey You could always become a cobol programmer...

Ampt

@enderland people maintaining codebases like that often have enough money to throw at it to just keep rotating through enough people that 1 of them will eventuall find the solution

Robert Harvey

@MichaelT I'm going to pretend I didn't hear that.

@MichaelT Alright. What about alternative languages like Groovy or Scala. Do they get any traction, or are the suits too afraid of them?

user55340

@RobertHarvey I haven't seen them in in-house development, but they are getting traction with contracting companies.

Robert Harvey

Contracting companies. Well, I'd have to be paid a lot to do that.

user55340

When you build the solution that you're going to maintain for some other company, the other company doesn't tend to care what you write it in as long as it works and you can get it to them fast.

Robert Harvey

6:57 PM

Sounds like I could work from home on something like that.

Do they still pay iOS programmers top dollar to make apps quickly?

Ampt

Can confirm: We're using Scala on some projects over here

@RobertHarvey They're called Creative Engineers/Designers and yes

user55340

@RobertHarvey There are indeed some quick turnaround iOS shops. It will be interesting to see how Swift gets in there and if it makes them more productive (or better quality).

Robert Harvey

Crockford has me convinced that languages and programming techniques that minimize the ceremony make better apps in a shorter period of time.

And I've always known that less code is better (all other things being equal).

Anyway, if Java is where the money is at, I'm happy to learn it, and simply improve my typing speed.

user55340

They do... but it also has trouble scaling up to larger applications and teams without discipline... and that discipline is easy to break when a time pressure is on.

durron597

Honestly the reason we program in Java is that they were doing 1000 things wrong, and hired me because I'm a Java developer, and I wasn't about to tell them to fire me

Robert Harvey

7:02 PM

I've never actually written an enterprise application, unless Office Tools Pro counts. Some installations of that app had 20 users.

durron597

besides, our trading app makes trading decisions in 1ms anyway so while I can't fight with, say, Goldman Sachs, it's pretty dang fast.

Robert Harvey

Yeah, I'm pretty sure OTP doesn't count. It was written in Access. We were stretching the platform far beyond what it was originally designed to do.

enderland

heheh

Robert Harvey

It probably had a couple thousand objects in it (forms, queries, reports) and a bunch of VBA code. We bit the bullet and finally converted the backend to SQL Server Express, eliminated the crashes, and got a 2x improvement in performance.

I think they're fully in .NET now.

enderland

wait your backend was access too?

Robert Harvey

7:06 PM

Yes. Talk about duct tape and chewing gum.

durron597

they were originally using a trading platform with 1000 bells and whistles and allowed Java extensions, but all the bells and whistles made the system worse. the platform REQUIRED RHEL 5.5. In October 2012.

enderland

@RobertHarvey stuff like this makes me realize what percentage of our financial/banking/large companies effectively run on duct tape apps

durron597

@enderland Because it's easier to hire 20 marginally competant people than 1 excellent person

enderland

@durron597 no because it's easier to just not hire people to replace legacy systems and just 1 (or none) to maintain them ;)

user55340

@enderland You would be surprised what I saw on the out of box register system that Employer^^ modified... so many things we fixed. So many. So bad. I won't shop at a certain Office store with a credit card anymore.

enderland

7:08 PM

"if it aint broke dont fix it" is a motto I think with software dev systems. "IT WORKS DONT TOUCH IT" lol :)

Robert Harvey

What I'm trying to figure out now is what direction I should take for my next job. I'm very good with business logic, but I haven't done anything in JSF. I have some ASP.NET MVC experience that's about 4 years old, and I think I could easily pick up Angular. But I don't know that an enterprise shop would hire me on those strengths, and I'm not even sure I want to go enterprise.

durron597

In my Employer^ I spent most of my time attempting to work with an in-house library written in VB6. I had that job from 2005-2008

On Error Resume Next

enderland

@RobertHarvey do you still want to do dev work?

Robert Harvey

As dicey as OTP was, we used On Error Resume Next maybe once.

durron597

DoEvents

enderland

7:10 PM

@durron597 this is the one I hate, haha

Robert Harvey

@enderland I'm not fit for much else. What did you have in mind? Architect? :)

durron597

I remember once my coworkers were at the office until 2 AM trying to debug something for a customer demo the next day because they couldn't figure out why this code didn't work

enderland

@RobertHarvey well that's not really what I asked, ha, but I guess it depends on how much you want/like working with people

Robert Harvey

I'm fine with people. I just need to watch them more carefully, so that I don't get overcome by events, and make sure that I stay productive (by whatever measure Employer deems).

enderland

imo most bigger organizations have a huge need for people on the business side of IT/development but who actually get the dev side

durron597

7:12 PM

Sub Func(Blah As String)
  Call AnotherSub(Blah)
End Sub

Sub AnotherSub(Arg As Variant)
  'This broke
End Sub

user55340

@enderland Business System Analyst... Project Manager who isn't an ass and doesn't ask for the moon...

enderland

^

Robert Harvey

Hmm, I'll have to think about that.

durron597

@enderland They need those but they don't know they need those.

enderland

I wonder what percentage of software project managers have written code at all, wonder if it's even above 50%

@durron597 oh yeah

user55340

7:14 PM

@enderland Some took a class or two back in college...

enderland

@MichaelT that's probably even worse than literally no experience

Robert Harvey

The people in my engineering group (including the managers) are all programmers. One of them actually wrote the code for Centipede (or a good portion of it, anyway). He was very adept at navigating the political land mines.

user55340

@enderland yep. "That should be easy, I think I did something like that back in college in a week... why are you asking for a month?"

durron597

@RobertHarvey The people who can code and also navigate the political landmines are very rare and valuable

Robert Harvey

It's very interesting how small the word is. Employer^^^ had a former astronaut on the board. I used to wander into his office and he would tell me astronaut stories.

user55340

7:18 PM

> I've signed on in short-handed Yankee ships
With skippers who knew the score,
I've sailed with the drinkers who can't navigate
A course past the bar-room door.
I've served with men who were seamen and knew
How to treat a matelot well
And as for the others, the miserable buggers,
They've made of me life, a hell.

user55340

From the Shellback song (about sailing... but applicable here)

amon

Does anyone have inspiration on how we can close this question? I assume it's off topic, but I'm unable to come up with an articulable reason. Or should I default to “too broad”?

user55340

@amon I'd go unclear.

user55340

> Can Joshua Bloch's Builder pattern be modified to allow inheritance, stay DRY, and avoid casting? Or can you prove this would never work?

durron597

unclear what you're asking

Robert Harvey

7:20 PM

Too Broad.

user55340

Too broad works too.

Robert Harvey

It looks like a copy/paste of a homework.

AJ Henderson

@MichaelT interesting, but I don't see a way to submit it to them

the page is read only and doesn't allow comments

user55340

@AJHenderson I was thinking more of 'other references that you can use when answering questions over there'

user55340

The site hasn't had much activity at all in years... think of it more as 'an archive of great discussion points of the past'

user55340

7:26 PM

With C2, its a 'there was a discussion that lasted years on this subject over there that you might find interesting'. Being able to reference CommunitySolution or CommunityMayNotScale and the like in your answers - something to keep in mind.

AJ Henderson

ah

user55340

I've occasionally drawn from C2.com for my answers on computer architecture. There is a lot there and smarter people than me have spent a long time thinking about it, tossing the idea around and storing their wisdom on a page that I can read.

user55340

Its also a good way to kill a friday afternoon reading... just go to meatballwiki.org/wiki/StartingPoints and start browsing. Note that doing this on a monday afternoon might not be a good thing.

Robert Harvey

Unless you have Columbus Day off.

user55340

@RobertHarvey Or the next day... and the day after that...

user55340

7:32 PM

@RobertHarvey c2.com/cgi/wiki?AlternativeJobsForProgrammers

user55340

(note that there's still some residual activity on C2... its not in read only mode - that page was edited a month ago...)

user55340

@AJHenderson I was thinking that you might find approaches like:

user55340

1

A: How can I reinvigorate my passion behind my work if nobody at my job really cares?

Having spent over 10 years in a similar situation having conformed from an Elvis to Mort here are THE two ideas/concepts that saved me... http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?ChangeYourOrganization MartinFowler's advice on a strategy for improving one's lot. "You can ChangeYourOrganization or ChangeYour...

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt I have no problems encouraging industry proven tools for people who simply want to write industry grade software. It's on you to assume what I define as industry grade...

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa Well you are recommending Ruby. So does this mean that you think Ruby is industry grade?

Jimmy Hoffa

7:37 PM

not everyone who wants to write some software wants to Write Software. Like I said the other day, I want to know how to carve some wood scales for my razor, I do not however want to know how to Carve Wood (don't care enough, though I would like to know how to shellac/varnish wood etc)

user55340

Btw, @Ampt did you poke at that wood map site?

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt of course. Like I said, it's on you to figure out how I define industry grade. In my book, Java or Ruby are 6 of one half a dozen the other

Ampt

@MichaelT I did! It reminded me a lot of of a guy I saw selling lake maps at CranFest

he had different layers for different depths

like a topographical map. it was very interesting, and very overpriced for what was essnetially a laser cut diagrams

user55340

Ampt

> In my book, Java or Ruby are 6 of one half a dozen the other

Can you put both arms above your head for me?

user55340

7:40 PM

@Ampt not laser printed: chrisyates.net - chrisyates.net/terraforms_portfolio.html

user55340

Its done... well.. this way:

user55340

So then when you take that into account... and consider this being 33" x 29"

user55340

Ampt

That is far more impressive

user55340

7:43 PM

Did you see the puzzles I linked?

user55340

Done by hand.

user15026

Those are gorgeous!

user55340

@AshleyNunn chrisyates.net/store/puzz.html

Ampt

7:46 PM

Are those 3d printed?

those should be 3d printed.

user55340

5 mins ago, by MichaelT

user55340

No.

Ampt

3d printing is the future!

user55340

Handmade != 3d printed

Ampt

7:48 PM

but they should be!

3d puzzles

made from 3d printing

user55340

These are pieces of art, their value (and his livelihood) comes from their uniqueness.

user55340

user15026

He does amazing work o.O

user55340

@AshleyNunn Saw him at an alternative media show in SF a number of years ago.

user15026

I am impressed

user55340

7:49 PM

@AshleyNunn You might be able to... track down... some of his art nearby: chrisyates.net/cytp/index.html

user15026

I like puzzles! And these are pretty. Although my boyfriend did bring me a puzzle that is a history of trains, which is pretty shiny

user55340

For @Ampt ...

user55340

> Once you're in Chicago, get to Lake Shore Drive (Illinois 41) and head northwest to Evanston. It will turn into Sheridan Ave., zig-zag along Lake Michigan, and you'll want to turn right at Greenwood Street, cross the bike path, and walk 500 feet north along the beach. Look for the strange eyeglass-resembling concrete slab. Easy to find. Jon Fernandez on the Tracking Team.

user55340

(this is still my favorite one:

user55340

7:53 PM

user15026

@MichaelT What does it say?

user55340

@AshleyNunn Chris Yates Tracking System

user15026

What does that mean?

user55340

Or maybe Chris Yates Tracking Device.

user55340

@AshleyNunn he's an artist.

user55340

7:59 PM

user55340

user15026

I feel like I am missing something here

user55340

He's a sculpture artist who does at times partake in guerrilla art in strange places. He had a 'street sign' phase where he'd put absurd street signs in places.

user55340

8:02 PM

> 2.4 miles North of Euchre Creek in Ophir on Hwy 101, take a dirt turnoff at some spectacular pinnacle. Follow the gravel path/road, past a gate downhill towards the Pacific. Scramble uphill about 200 yards down. It's near the very top of the embankment to the highway. Great ocean view from here!

user55340

(that one is not on the road)

Ampt

@durron597 no offense, but your company needs a new website

user55340

@Ampt And you know just the consultant(s) to do it?

Ampt

Why, yes, I do! Fancy that ;)

hahaha just kidding. I ain't gonna peddle my wares to my friends.

durron597

@Ampt Are you willing to pay for it?

Ampt

8:04 PM

Funny story about that actually, I went through a round of training on a different CMS system done by the people who make the system. It was ~15 people, all of whom all worked for company C, and then me

Company C and the training company are talking back and forth about project D, a major financial institution's website that my company just so happened to make. I was half thinking about introducing myself and my company before I put 2 and 2 together and realized that this was the team training to take over maintaining the website from my company.

@durron597 I can't afford it, but I'm sure that such a reputable, fine establishment such as yourself is always looking for ways to increase their brand awareness with a shiny new website.

durron597

one of the things i love about working here is that they only spend money on things they think will either increase P&L now or eventually

which means they won't pay anyone to make the website awesome if they don't think it will actually matter - and in this case i agree, it won't

if you're going to do business with us you already know who we are and you don't need to see our website. if you're not going to do business with us then it doesn't matter

Ampt

Well, you're B2B, so yeah. pretty much.

Robert Harvey

28

Q: How can I reinvigorate my passion behind my work if nobody at my job really cares?

Over the past 7 months, I've been working at a company programming/improving small little utilities and also doing a couple mundane daily tasks. I've come to realize that my boss is a Mort (this is slang for "person who implements quick, bare-minimum solutions"). Here is a more in-depth explanati...

software-industry work-environment management motivation

@MichaelT: Seven months. These kids nowadays.

durron597

Have I ever mentioned how irritating it is that JIRA doesn't use the same Markdown as SO? I keep writing stuff in the wrong Markdown language

user55340

Btw, its fun watching this unfold:

user55340

8:19 PM

35

Q: Do we really need to keep closed typo questions with accepted/upvoted answers?

I've read the rules for the 9 day automatic deletion script: Closed more than 9 days ago Not closed as a duplicate Score <= 0 Not locked No answers with a score > 0 No accepted answer No pending reopen votes No edits in the past 9 days So what about questions caused by typographical errors? t...

discussion feature-request

user55340

(and I'm still confused how I got the initial two down votes on this:

user55340

3

A: What to do with edits that improve crap posts - but still leave them crap?

There are three different groups here, each with different things to consider. First, there's the person who asked the crap post. By editing the post it is possible that they will see an improvement in the quality of the post, look to see what is done, and hopefully write a better post next tim...

Ampt

@durron597 I'm sure there's a setting for that. I'm mid JIRA deployment right now and there's a setting for just about everything

Jimmy Hoffa

@Ampt say what you will, but if you're not going to be picky about languages to choose towards the ones that are clearly head and shoulders above others, you really have no ground to stand on in saying the crappy ones are particularly different

durron597

@Ampt It's not my JIRA.

Jimmy Hoffa

8:22 PM

(incidentally when you realize some languages are head and shoulders above the others, you realize all the crappy ones are not effectively different)

s/crappy/industry grade/g

Ampt

@JimmyHoffa I meant to imply that you were having a stroke that I was diagnosing due to the odd arrangement of words you presented as a sentence.

durron597

odd. fgrep blah <filename> | tail -f doesn't work but tail -f <filename> | fgrep blah does. i wonder why

Ampt

because the pipe is directional?

durron597

i guess because fgrep returns EOF

no that can't be right

the whole point is that tail -f ignores EOF and waits for more data

maybe because fgrep itself terminates

Ampt

you're only running fgrep once, where as tail is long running

amon

8:35 PM

@durron597 what are you trying to do? both work, but do something different. (a) gets you the last 10 matching lines, then terminates. The -f is irrelevant here. (b) gets the matching lines of the last 10 lines and of all lines that are added afterwards, and does not terminate.

psr

@durron597 RandomlyMigrateRaceCondition()

durron597

@amon I wanted b, and I tried a first and it didn't work

so i tried b and it worked, I just thought it was interesting. maybe not that interesting.

psr

@MichaelT pun intended?

durron597

i'm looking for specific things in a log file of an app that's currently running

as they happen

gnat

@MichaelT you may like this one either:

0

Q: Place questions with X net downvotes on hold automatically

To resolve the frequent issue of poor question unfairly gaining answers, and thus paving the way for more poor questions to be asked I Propose EDIT: From feedback, have changed net vote threshold to 5 (to at least match that of the current 5 users at 3k rep) END EDIT If a question has 5 net...

feature-request questions down-votes on-hold

^^^ it somewhat scared me at first (guess I am not alone, considering dozen downvotes). But after recalling lightweight deletions in LQ queue, I thought similar lightweight closure can fly too...

closing-by-downvotes could be less error prone if it is complemented by an option for asker to reopen at their discretion (triggering mod-attention flag if this happens). This roughly follows the way how LQ review is designed to work for "lightweight" deletion of answers — gnat 5 hours ago

oh and one sure positive thing it made, was quick deletion of homework dump from Programmers :)

@Yannis oh-kay, would you be so kind to do manual close and deletion of this homework dump then? :) — gnat 5 hours ago

Ampt

8:46 PM

@amon not sure what you mean by "instead-of" - That's exactly what I was recommending

durron597

@Ampt Is that question even on topic?

"What is the best way"

amon

@Ampt your comment could be misinterpreted as “implement a cache yourself. In JavaScript”. As it turns out, browsers already do caching, so you shouldn't bother about it before serious optimizing.

Ampt

Well now it makes it sound like HTTP caching isn't local, which it is.

I guess s/create/use/g

Ampt

9:16 PM

0

Q: What is the cost and role of parsing technology in modern compilers and other programming language processors

There are many questions on the site opposing parser generators and hand-written parsers in programming language application, such as compilers or interpreters. One argument often invoked, by both sides, is efficiency. Parsing is an old field (about 50 years of research) used by both computer s...

compilers parsing syntax interpreters measurement

is that any better?

It looks answerable, but only with off site references (Processors spend X% of their time parsing)

and I'm not sure if there's a ton of value

Ah nevermind, it's all in the comment history

user55340

9:46 PM

Heh... from latest Doctor Who... (old timers will chuckle)

user55340

Ahh! DRM.

user55340

Anyways... jelly babies in a cigar case.

user15026

I missed that detail!

user55340

@AshleyNunn The Doctor's conversation with the Emil Moorhouse talking about the foretold. It might be a cigarette case the doctor pulls out (I don't smoke... don't know which it is)

user55340

Its at about 13:20 in the show if you have it on.

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