The Whiteboard

1:29 AM

I do wish I knew the maths. I'll pick them up if it becomes relevant I'm sure, but until then...grumble...

I had to up vote your answer... it is good

user55340

1:44 AM

Its not always about knowing how to do the math, but being able to identify the type of problem.

user55340

And frankly, the guy working on the optimal carpet problem was quite brilliant.

Q: Am I approaching learning Java correctly?

2:09 AM

a surprisingly consistent collection of bland meh answers to bland meh question. Mediocrity at it best, rare case when even bare opinions are that boring

0

(Originally Posted on Stackoverflow) I'm sorry if this question is not appropriate for stackoverflow, I know this is not a technical question, but I feel like it is relevant. I have always been interested in programming, I have messed around with many programming languages and different game engi...

user20683

@gnat yeah, it's not completely horrible so I didn't outright close it but the community largely seems to have just kind of shrugged and yawned.

user55340

Well... I've taken my whack at the queue for the day.

user55340

(still 3 left in the queue as I see it)

user55340

It feels like there is an uptick on less than 3k flagging of questions, but I'm not sure of that. Just feels like more "0 vote" items in the queue (which I assume come from flags)

2:32 AM

@WorldEngineer Stuff I really hate. Stuff that typically damages good questions that were unfortunate to get to collider. Easy to spot, annoying, but - not a flaggable offence. Blinding mediocrity, zero interest, low effort and value, but - nothing to justify deletion request. It's not even crap, it's... vacuum. Great gray nothing. Deadly boring wasteland

I just crossed 8K deleted-downvoted answers. I've got 1.8K helpful flags. I never hesitate to downvote or make a critical comment. But there's nothing I can think of to fight this

@MichaelT if these feel deserving your CV, then such flags are good thing. Meaning, community members beyond CV-privilege also share understanding of what is worth closing. On the other hand, if these feel more to Leave Open, that's a bad thing :)

following the same reasoning

And, you know, now that you mentioned I recall that I recently did 2 or 3 unusually obvious kicks out of the queue, kicks of the questions that seemed to have nothing closeable

user55340

@gnat I am absolutely happy that there are more flags going on. It shows involvement from the up and coming 3k users which is something a community needs to remain vibrant (can't let the mods have all the fun). Its just a "hmm, is that an audit? Nope! Thats a flag" when I'm checking on questions.

discussion votes vote-count

for a moment I even thought these were audits. But no

ah! involvement. Thanks, that makes me feel better. They try and learn, there of course could be mistakes, okay. That might be a good thing in the end

okay we can wait and see. Raised involvement is good

user55340

I was reading the meta.CS.SE and seeing them dispairing the lack of votes on questions... and to an extent, the lack of reviews.

user55340

cs.stackexchange.com/review/close/stats

user55340

881 close reviews total. Top reviewer has 150.

user55340

2:46 AM

12

Q: Why the low voting rates?

Compare CS.SE to Academia.SE, which is more or less at the same state as CS.SE: about a year in beta, ~1500 visits/day, 3300 user (CS.SE has 5k users) Look at the question on the front page of academia, and the vote they have. You'll see many 5+ questions, some 15+ and some 0-3 questions. Now l...

user20683

@gnat The new close reasons have helped some, still some kinks to work out.

barcode c# project-management algorithms

@MichaelT problems with voting and reviews? they need to take lessons from MSO.

@WorldEngineer agree. After initial cultural shock these feel indeed better than prior reasons, someone did a pretty good job

including site-specific OT messages

we've got a spammer

arronlee

1

user20683

@gnat GlenH7 is to blame for those IIRC

user20683

check the meta thread

user20683

Yannis and I basically cannibalized the best ones.

2:52 AM

they embed links to their site (in profile) into innocently looking answers

user20683

Annihilated

user55340

@WorldEngineer You got a point in the "drinking with moderation" game - go find a shot glass. You need to catch up to @YannisRizos

Q: What should our predefined off-topic reasons be?

@WorldEngineer interesting, let me re-check. I recall following first revisions and thinking we're up to trouble. So later success turned out a plaasant surprise

@WorldEngineer thanks!

12

There are some fairly major changes coming soon to how posts are closed, you may want to read up on the details: Closing changes: [on hold], unclear, too broad, opinion-based, off-topic reasons, bye-bye to Too Localized Responding to your “too localized” concerns We will need to come up with ...

discussion close-reasons

@gnat Have you got a hotkey attached to some client side javascript that posts this image in here? ;P

fuck me these great reasons are from there indeed

2:57 AM

Is anyone else loving the new off-topic reasons? I haven't had to put in a custom comment for anything since they've been added

great job from Glen. And from Robert Harvey, his suggestion turned out spot on

Agreed

user20683

@JimmyHoffa I have, mostly the "Why you cross-post?"

@WorldEngineer That's a flag not a close vote in my book

user20683

@JimmyHoffa It's a close vote for me

user20683

2:59 AM

:P

I am kinda proud that both drafts from Glen turned out to have my upvotes. And kinda ashamed to find out that I missed contribution from Robert...

The only thing that's come close to me adding a comment are poll questions, but those easily fall under either opinion-based or the off-topic of resource request

A: What should our predefined off-topic reasons be?

7

I think you should consider adopting one of Stack Overflow's custom reasons: Questions asking us to recommend a tool, library or favorite off-site resource are off-topic for Programmers as they tend to attract opinionated answers and spam. Instead, describe the problem and what has been done ...

@JimmyHoffa Jimmy flagging is not just from your book, it's official instruction from MSO tag wiki...

meta.stackoverflow.com/tags/cross-posting/info

> If you spot a user cross-posting, please make use of Moderator Flags to inform the Moderators.

@gnat Yeah, that's my book :)

Q: Trial run of modified "hotness formula" for Programmers questions

@JimmyHoffa no I just pull that image from my favorite / bookmarked question...

7

Could we please make a trial run of modified "hotness formula" for Programmers questions? Modification details are described in this MSO post as follows: As far as I can tell, substantial part of Qanswers in current formula is fake. (log(Qviews)*4) + ((Qanswers * Qscore)/5) + sum(Ascor...

feature-request answer-quality hot-questions

you read good books

:)

user41796

3:03 AM

@gnat Robert's contributions were a bit late to that thread. Thanks for the compliments on the phrasings.

@GlenH7 I noticed these were later. I am ashamed that I didn't follow up until the end. And, naturally that I failed to predict success of this er adventure

my initial impressions of using these were quite negative

and I was surprised to find these changing to opposite just in 2-3 days

you and Robert and SO and MSO guys did a good job

now if they only modify hotness formula, life would be 200% great but oh well...

:)

@WorldEngineer by the way while I have your attention, I asked ChrisF wrt your canonical-kid question and he convinced me it is worth giving a try...

yesterday, by ChrisF

@gnat - Choose one answer - I suggest the current highest voted one - and merge the other answers into that. When that's done raise a flag/meta question and the mods can delete the other answers, CW the question and answer and apply the lock.

user20683

@gnat kk

user20683

thanks

user20683

It keeps getting asked in various forms so it's a good thing to have on hand.

user20683

if you'll excuse me, bed calls

3:21 AM

@WorldEngineer actually, after talking to Chris, I took a closer look at kids questions and these turned out better than I recalled

tag children - wee need kids as synonym

:)

at first glance, I misread title as "Are there any programming languages that make use of expletives?" — gnat 2 hours ago

3:55 AM

looking suspiciously around got spammers?

10

Nice catch. This is an organized group of spammers who apparently work for the company with the products in question. They somehow slipped through with innocuous-looking questions and answers (copied from other users), then built a massive voting ring to prop each other up. They've been trying to...

Glenn1234

4:39 AM

Looking at a program design question more than a specific language question. Can anyone suggest if this is a good place for such a thing?

this: Programmers.stackexchange.com

Yannis Rizos

8:42 AM

@Glenn1234 Application design & architecture is on topic on Programmers.

Blog - Stack Exchange: Stack Overflow: Where We Hate Fun

10:30 AM

Without an explanation, this answer may become useless in case if someone else posts an opposite opinion. For example, if someone posts a claim like "no matter what, avoid using tricks like Two men enter, one man leaves", how would this answer help reader to pick of two opposing opinions? Consider editing it into a better shape, to meet How to Answer quality standards. Side note high score of the post that just shows funny picture reminds me of The Trouble With Popularity — gnat 2 hours ago

Jeff Atwood on January 04, 2010

I noticed that the Stack Overflow question Strangest language feature has been closed and reopened several times now. The text of the question is brief:

What is in your opinion the most surprising, weird, strange or really “WTF” language feature you have encountered?

I agree this is not exactly an ideal question for Stack Overflow, per the FAQ:

Avoid asking questions that are subjective, argumentative, or require extended discussion. This is not a discussion board, this is a place for questions that can be answered! …

Nick Russler

1:14 PM

Hi

At the moment i am writing my bachelor thesis and am looking for related work, is this the right exchange to ask for Related Work? I am developing a WebService..

I was sure that stackoverflow was wrong for this, did i got the right exchange with programmers.exchange?

user41796

@NickRussler Related work, aka research librarian, not so much. Specific programming challenges with design or other conceptual issues, you bet.

user41796

None of the SE sites are a good fit for "I'm looking for a research paper on ...." Google & Google Scholar & whatever other services your Uni has are better tools for that.

user41796

OTOH, "My web service is supposed to do XYZ, but I have a problem in expressing this aspect of the domain through the service...." would be on topic.

user41796

A rule of thumb is if you could stand around a whiteboard and hash out the problem as well as the solution, it should be appropriate for Programmers. HTH.

user41796

@NickRussler Chat is sometimes acceptable for digging up research, or at least getting pointers on what to dig into. But most of the regulars won't be rolling in for a little bit longer. Feel free to throw your question(s) out here in chat and you'll see if you get any responses.

1:35 PM

geez Glen, am I not regular enough for you yet?

@NickRussler does your university provide database access to something akin to IEEE?

I get most of my research articles from there or other databases that my library provides

you could also talk to the librarians there, provided they know what they're doing, they should be able to help you find some stuff

@GlenH7 I liked your last edit on the real time editing question. Good use of materials and keeping it simple for OP. I'd give you another upvote if I could haha

2:07 PM

@GlenH7 isn't there a minimum rep to participate in the whiteboard?

user55340

@Ampt 20 rep on any site.

user41796

I figured if I was gunning for the 100 pts, I might as well make it as easy as possible for him. That's as close to "gimme teh codez" as I get. I double checked that user, and he's got 96 on SO. So he was eligible to jump in here.

user41796

@Ampt And you should know that the party doesn't start until Hoffa rolls in. :-D

Silouane Gerin

hi

user55340

@Ampt Eat more fiber.

user55340

2:11 PM

@SilouaneGerin 'ello.

user41796

Though we should probably close it here - however, this would be a great question for workplace.stackexchange.com so I've posted it there for you - workplace.stackexchange.com/questions/13254/… — Michael Durrant 3 mins ago

user41796

^^^^ How has he accumulated 3k+ rep on P.SE and still do something like that?

user41796

Yes, already flagged. Yes, already left him a comment not to do that. Still face-palming.

@MichaelT More fiber?

user55340

Being at 9963 with some recent answers out there, I'll likely hit 10k today.

2:15 PM

@GlenH7 ok, ok, I'll concede to that point

user55340

@Ampt Yep. I'd suggest super colon blow. hulu.com/watch/10304

@MichaelT Man, I think I need another cup of coffee. That took me WAY too long lmao

Holy crap. BRB getting coffee

user55340

@Ampt Caffeine is a diuretic. That can help some too.

Nick Russler

Okay then i will just throw in my question here and hope someone has mercy ;)

I am implementing a webservice to "resolve" String into another, much like a dictionairy.

So i get as Input a word (i call them synonym) and translate it (into a translation).

I offer a ui to associate Synonyms with Translations (1 to n)

also i have two interfaces to either register Synonyms or resolve a synonym into it's translation.

Are there existing solutions that deal with the same topic?

user55340

Gah! Repcap at 9975. How long until a new UTC day?

Nick Russler

2:18 PM

It has pretty broad usage, since it's very unspecific.. Because of that i found it hard to find comparable Related work

user55340

(or we could get @WorldEngineer to delete 25 of the answers I've downvoted...)

user41796

@MichaelT That would explain why my last vote for you didn't take. :-) Now you've got 8 rep caps to my 5. <sigh>

user41796

@NickRussler - yes, you're still at a pretty broad stage. Sounds like a language translation domain, right?

user55340

@GlenH7 I was like "only 2 rep for an upvote? What? Oh wait!"

@MichaelT A while. It's like 15:20 there.

Or is it 16:20? I don't know. But it's mid-afternoon.

user41796

2:20 PM

@MichaelT Since your CDT, it's around 7PM your time.

user41796

@NickRussler - I'm a little slow this AM, but I'm not necessarily seeing a problem yet. I send you a word "Foo" and you send back a response with translations "Bar, Baz, Biz". Dictionary would be a decent enough in memory structure to use. You could back that with a DB of some sort.

user41796

Alternatively, you could generate some sort of REST interface where the word to translate becomes its own page. But that seems like overkill for what you described.

user41796

If you "had to have" a pattern to follow, go look up the GoF's patterns and pick some that sound interesting. Your design is sufficiently open at this point that a few of them would do the trick.

user41796

Design Patterns

Design Patterns: Elements of Reusable Object-Oriented Software is a software engineering book describing recurring solutions to common problems in software design. The book's authors are Erich Gamma, Richard Helm, Ralph Johnson and John Vlissides with a foreword by Grady Booch. The authors are often referred to as the Gang of Four, GoF, or Go4. The book is divided into two parts, with the first two chapters exploring the capabilities and pitfalls of object-oriented programming, and the remaining chapters describing 23 classic software design patterns. The book includes examples in C++ an...

@GlenH7 SHHHHHHHHHHHH. Jeez man, are you trying to incite a riot?

we don't talk about those here

user41796

2:25 PM

@Ampt I'm just trying to wind up @MichaelT. :-)

user55340

AbstractFactoryBuilderSingletonPaser

@GlenH7 and away we go! hahaha

user55340

heh

@MichaelT you forgot the strategy pattern

user55340

That one actually reads like an actual class name.

2:26 PM

AbstractFactoryBuilderSingletonStrategyParser

user41796

This is a good example of how patterns are abused. We take a reasonably simple challenge and make it difficult. And I was going to vote for a Strategy pattern fronting a Template pattern wrapped behind a Facade just for good measure.

what if patterns ARE the anti-patterns

insert conspiracy keanu here

user41796

Oh, and I'm going to stick a Bridge pattern between the synonyms and translatable words just to complicate things. :-)

user41796

@NickRussler - snark aside, the GoF patterns provide some structure that you can use to frame things with. Pick one at most, and even then it will potentially be overkill for what you're suggesting. I'd just code up 2 or 3 services and be done with it. It's not clear to me how you can extend that problem into thesis worthy work, but I understand you only exposed a snippet of it.

@NickRussler don't listen to them. We don't all abhor patterns. They are more against pattern abuse than they are against patterns

user55340

2:30 PM

Back in my college days, you didn't have patterns, you just did it.

user41796

patterns are easy to abuse if you don't keep your problem domain firmly in mind.

user55340

Now, when I talk to a fresh out of school they are thinking of the patterns first in building it and "Oh, I'll use an abstract factory here" and "put a singleton here" before they write a single line of code.

@MichaelT "Back in my day..."

user55340

Trying to approach the problem as if patterns were legos. They aren't. A pattern is what you use when you are painting a picture and realize that you need to use a different brush to get the texture you want.

user41796

@MichaelT Same here; but there was a solid reason GoF came together. C++ usage was not consistent and they were looking for a unifying language to simplify conversations. I also agree that "patterns, patterns, patterns" has put the cart before the horse.

user55340

2:33 PM

You come across a particularly shaped problem in the code and realize "oh, if I use an AbstractFactory then this class will fill that functionality nicely."

user41796

@ThomasOwens - have you heard anything on the pass rate for the software PE exam?

@GlenH7 No. The only thing I know is that I missed the deadline in New Hampshire and Massachusetts isn't planning on offering it.

user41796

Just found it. ncees.org/exams/pe-exam A whopping 50%. Glad I didn't take it. Electrical and Computer was 64% for 1st time takers.

Yeah.

That's...problematic.

I should be able to pass it, though. I just need to waiver the FE exam, since there's no FE exam I can actually pass.

user41796

I was really worried about being able to have the right reference material. 1st time for administering a test has got to be a little crazy.

2:38 PM

They all involve more math and science than I even took in school, much less remember.

user41796

Honestly, I think the FE was much harder in my case than the PE. I took a lot of math in school, but hadn't been actively using it since then.

user41796

I was worried coming out of the FE. Was reasonably confident on the PE.

man... I wanted to take the PE but 8 hours of testing sounds like strait hell.

user41796

@Ampt - it can be. Depends upon how well you know the material. I was that guy who left each session an hour early. And I had double checked all of my answers each time. So it was really only 6. :-)

user41796

I put a lot of time in up front though - to the order of several hundred hours of study.

2:40 PM

@GlenH7 how did you do?

user41796

I'm licensed. :-)

@GlenH7 Congrats! That's awesome. I was really happy when I heard they were making a PE for the software guys

what reference materials did you use?

user41796

I think it's progress in the right direction.

also, which FE did you take?

user41796

keep in mind that I took the EE / Computer version, not the SW version. This April was the first administration of the SW exam. Too much risk on an uncertain basis for me.

2:42 PM

@GlenH7 Ahhhh, I thought you had done the software one

user41796

I took the electrical FE.

The software one is brand new. I'm excited for it.

I'm thinking about doing it in april... It will be right around graduation for me

You need to waiver then. You need years of experience and an FE for a PE exam.

user41796

For my PE, I used the PPI reference (it's okay, but not stellar). I used the handbook of CS. SWEBOK; NCEES sample exam; PPI sample exam; and a boatload of independent research to round out the topics. Hardware and networking are not well covered by PPI

user41796

2:44 PM

nor is SW well covered by PPI, to be honest. SWEBOK and experience helped there though.

user41796

@Ampt Your FE won't be as hard as mine then. The Maths will be in more recent memory for you. For the FE, I do recommend the PPI reference & exam. Also get the NCEES exam sample. Do all the questions twice. Print out a copy of the FE reference and get used to using only that during your study sessions.

@ThomasOwens my school works with us for all of that. Most of my friends in the other engineering programs graduate and then take their PE that spring. I would say 66% of them pass it.

At least in the Architectural Engineering branch anyway

How do you take a PE without 4 years of experience?

Or maybe that's state-by-state?

user41796

@Ampt I highly, highly, highly, highly recommend getting it done in your last year of school. And you meant FE not PE, right?

@ThomasOwens most of us have 2 years of internship, and I believe that ABET gives us 2 years for schooling, plus they pass the FE their junior year

At least that's the way it's been explained to me

2:49 PM

It was pulling teeth to get New Hampshire to consider my CDSA + 2 years of co-ops + 2 years of post-graduate experience as sufficient.

Haha maybe in wisconsin it's different. I know that we have a lot of teachers/faculty who are on the board of ABET

Can you take the FE or PE without an ABET accredited degree?

You can take the FE without being graduated, but the PE needs an ABET degree, which is why they graduate and then take it

I wouldn't go to a school that wasn't ABET accredited. Or, if it was a new program, going for ABET accreditation. We were the first undergraduate Software Engineering program to start, but because of co-ops making it a 5 year program, we got it the same year as schools that started their program the year after it.

user41796

WI's rules: dsps.wi.gov/Licenses-Permits/Engineer/PEprelicense 4 year degree + 4 years of work experience for PE. And this one is more clear: dsps.wi.gov/Licenses-Permits/Engineer/PElicense

user41796

2:57 PM

I'm thinking I ought to contact NCEES and offer to help with the SW PE revisions. With a 50% pass rate, I suspect they are working hard to improve the questions.

Q: Using two versions of a class in the same code

" together with an additional 4 years of experience in engineering work of a character satisfactory to the examining board and indicating that the applicant is competent to be placed in responsible charge of such work;"

I believe that is where it comes into play as to what "engineering work" is

user55340

On the subject of patterns...

user55340

0

At my job, in our core project, we have a Validation class that has been evolving with the years. And ee have an old project with an User class that uses an old version of the Valdiation class. And we have to update some functionality that requires new validation methods. All those methods are i...

php versioning dependencies

user55340

That one might be a "use a Factory".

user41796

@MichaelT don't be afraid of them. They can be useful. Sometimes. :-)

user55340

3:00 PM

I'm not - its the identifying when it is useful that is key. There is a particular problem there, and it may have the shape of a Factory.

user55340

You pass in the class that you need to validate, and it hands back the proper validator.

user41796

I'm just kidding anyway. What I need is a pattern to solve my problem of not having dependable test data to verify my changes with. :-(

@GlenH7 Ah yes, I've never been a fan of implementing the QADataStinks pattern, though I've done it multiple times..

user55340

@GlenH7 Previous place, we were working to build a derby database that had all the data we wanted (and could get updated from an "actual" mysql db when new stuff came out) for unit testing.

user55340

There was also work to make mocked webservices for all those calls too. It was quite an undertaking and wasn't recognized as important by management... so it wasn't done, and half the team working on it left.

user55340

3:09 PM

It was part of the frustrating part of the company... the "this could be neat and fun and is necessary but isn't recognized as important to do."

user41796

My problem is on that order. The end users I'm working with don't have any means of validating the changes to the model. I even started a unit test data set for them, which they promptly ignored. Apparently too much work for them to maintain. <sigh>

user41796

But they now want the results kicked out to a csv / spreadsheet so they can manually verify things. Mind you, these data sets have at least 8700 entries and often have closer to a half million entries for a single run.

user41796

that's sustainable with manual inspection, I'm sure.

@GlenH7 Whenever I'm in that pickle, I just follow the letter blindly, then when they get the result only then looking the horse in the teeth do they realize they made a stupid decision and they either sweep it under the rug in which case my job's done and I'll hear nothing more of it, or say "Oh yeah, maybe this won't work let's try that other thing you mentioned" at which point you get to do it right

user41796

@JimmyHoffa I see a pattern in that solution as that's what I do too. I'm just dreading the political battle that will result. I'm still burned out from the politics of my previous job, where posturing was more important than producing.

3:20 PM

@GlenH7 Yeah, I hear that. I've given up fighting managers when they try to do stupid things, continually disallowing me to do a good job will just get me to leave anymore, not to fight. I make clear the implications and exhibit the results, I know from hard effort that knowledgefying a manager is like teaching chinese to a spanish donkey.

user41796

Si!

user41796

Turning point on the last gig was when they handed me my 4th FTE project and it was clearly a death march from the get-go.

user41796

4x work @ 1x pay == phone calls to the recruiters.

@GlenH7 You know it's bad when you're calling them

user41796

I knew at the beginning that the previous employer likely wasn't a long-term gig. The cultural issues of posture vs produce were apparent. So I made sure to keep in touch with the recruiters I've used.

3:26 PM

Yeah, you can pick up on that stuff pretty quick, just sucks you really can't find that shit out in the interview. It's just so damn hard.

user41796

It was early 2008 and I definitely needed a gig. <shrugs shoulders>. The market was exceptionally rough, and everyone had just contracted down. I'm kind of surprised I lasted there as long as I did. I tried to make it to vesting, but that just didn't happen.

@MichaelT if these are answers discovered by your script I for one would be all for that! That script has been proven to me as fantastic way to detect crap

on the other hand, here's yet another DV-target (not to me I am out of votes today)

programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/205310/…

wanna loose 1 on your road to 10K?

user55340

@gnat Apparently too late... 404'ed.

oh that was fast

user55340

btw, if you don't know of it, draw.io is wonderful for doing those quick diagrams for SE.

user55340

3:32 PM

Its good for more than that too.

user41796

@gnat deleted by ChrisF♦ 5 mins ago

user41796

@MichaelT Can you just copy / paste them into a question / answer then?

@GlenH7 yup. Unlike @MichaelT I am already at 10K, and can see that :)

user55340

Nearly - I did an export as .png and upload back to the question.

user55340

I find it simpler to use than many native apps and does what I want.

3:34 PM

his sprint reminded me my own "oscillation" around 10K here. I has been pretty close when bounty-worthy answer popped out. And that bounty brought back again... for a while

user41796

@gnat You could upvote an answer for @MichaelT but he's rep-capped for the day. So no 10k tools until this evening.

user55340

There are still some good, fresh questions today that can use another answer.

unless someone were to bounty a question and then award him the bounty hahaha

user55340

(to post this evening)

user55340

@Ampt But the bounty system is broken!

user41796

3:36 PM

@gnat I remember. You had a number of down votes pulling your rep down at that point too. Good investment in the community, but it meant you couldn't see those magical deleted questions. :-)

@GlenH7 I don't upvote unless content is good. that said, yeah, I already picked some stuff that is fairly good and wait for tomorrow

@GlenH7 no big deal. At workplace, it has been worse than that. Much worse

@MichaelT Completely!!!!!!!!!!!!!1!!1one!1!!!!

At workplace, I oscillated around edit-unlock threshold (1K at beta IIRC). It took longer to reliably hop over and it was painful without it

@GlenH7 Yeah, then it got worse; I never would have moved to PA except my contract wound down at the beginning of '09 when every day the DOW was losing 400 points, the bright side is in our industry when you absolutely need a gig, you can generall find one even in those times

@gnat You haz been pretty cheeseburger?

@JimmyHoffa you sure know how to bring me pain :)

3:40 PM

@MichaelT I've used IPlotz for wireframing UI's for a long time

@gnat You did it to yourself (and me, to be fair)

IPlotz is a bit more advanced, but it's pretty great, that one and balsamiq

3:55 PM

@MichaelT here, explain dependency inversion and pop over 10k programmers.stackexchange.com/questions/205297/…

user55340

@JimmyHoffa Tonight maybe... repcapped today.

wth, it's only 10

Oh the math one

and it flips the day like zulu time doesn't it?

user55340

Yep. Its nearly 16:00 now.

I'd probably repwhore better if I answered questions in the active space rather than what I always do of monitoring the newest list

user55340

Btw, the low quality review pop up screen is such that the menu bar overlays it and I can't close it with the [x], but have to select something. I want to delete it, but wanted a refresher on what the answer was.

Q: Why can't I just offer a bounty for a question right off the bat?

4:01 PM

@MichaelT actually bounty system is "broken" specifically to prevent tricks like that...

70

Sometimes at work I have an immediate need to get an answer for a question. I have 3,000 points at my disposal so I'd like to just put a bounty on the question as soon as I post it to give it the highest possible chance of being seen. Why do I have to wait?

discussion bounty stackexchange

Q: Design tips for a program with GUI's for basic intermediate advanced expert

4:36 PM

Though you were told to ask this here on SO, it might be a better fit here, but for it to be a good fit on any SE site it would need an actual answerable question. Right now it doesn't have one. Could you link me to the Q on SO or the person who commented you should ask it here? — Jimmy Hoffa 14 secs ago

user55340

-2

I've been asked to develop a program with four interchangeable GUI's so that users can switch from basic to intermediate to advanced to expert mode seamlessly and at will. I have a good understanding on how to separate the GUI from the business logic. That's taken care of. My question is exclus...

c# user-interface

user55340

This question appears to be off-topic because it is about recommending ideas on how to do a specific task. It seems to me as if it would be a better fit on programmers.stackexchange.com, as as far as I know they accept questions like these. — newStackExchangeInstance 10 hours ago

Thanks!

@newStackExchangeInstance Nope, we absolutely do not accept resource requests or polling questions on P.SE, but more than that, this question doesn't even have a question. Please in the future don't go around suggesting people ask their questions on P.SE until you've spent a good bit of time there yourself and learned what we do and don't close. (Seriously, spend some time there, we'd appreciate your participation!) — Jimmy Hoffa 28 secs ago

user55340

Hmm... still looking for an algorithm for creating a board for octo everything2.com/?node=octo

user55340

Fill an 8x8 board 8x areas of 8 contiguous squares.

user55340

4:49 PM

  ABCDEFGH
 +--------+
1|ggggfffh|1
2|dddggefh|2
3|dadgeefh|3
4|aadgeffh|4
5|addeefch|5
6|aaabeech|6
7|babbbcch|7
8|bbbcccch|8
 +--------+
  ABCDEFGH

That is possibly the nerdiest game I've ever heard of. You basically have to be an engineer to play it (or at least being one gives you an enormous advantage), and it sounds surprisingly entertaining.

@MichaelT you speak of creating a board; how precisely do you mean?

user55340

The game is a two person one... I've done it over email with my brother in the past. But its kind of boring. However, as a solitaire game, it might have some promise as something fun to write (and maybe make an app and sell it.. yes, be warned that I might ~~weaponize~~ commercialize it).

@MichaelT I would vote semi-random within constraints, i.e. As soon as a line steps away from a wall, if it's next move is parallel to the wall, it can now go up to but never reach that wall again, or any of the perpindicular walls unless there are at least 8 nodes available on each side of the border it creates

Sets is another game that's good for engineers.

user55340

You start with the "blank" board. How do you populate it with the different areas that follow those rules. Recursive backtracking? Simulated annealing? etc...

4:56 PM

You could probably implement it as a solitaire or multiplayer game. But it's card-based, not board-based.

@MichaelT I would just pick a random start point for a line, and let it continually pick a random next point that is one of the available contiguous spots from it's head, check constraints to see which of those spots is available.

user55340

Its akin to Patterns by Sid Sackson

user55340

Patterns II

Patterns II is a pencil and paper game developed by Sid Sackson for 3 or more players. It emphasizes the use of inductive logic and scientific analysis to discover a hidden pattern of symbols within a matrix of grid spaces. Gameplay One player, the Designer, designs a pattern and then places a symbol within each cell of a 6x6 grid using an agreed upon set of symbols (e.g., plus, circle, triangle, square, star). The Designer’s pattern can be based upon visual symmetries, mathematical algorithms, or other methods. (See examples of sample patterns below.) The Designer's pattern is not show...

a few simple constraints would maintain a valid board, but then my approach is the naive one

user55340

@JimmyHoffa I've been tackling it as a rules based approach... I get problems with loops and holes on the edge.

user55340

4:58 PM

a a a
a . a
a a a

Set (game)

:Set! redirects here. Set! is also a special form in the Scheme programming language. Set is a real-time card game designed by Marsha Falco in 1974 and published by Set Enterprises in 1991. The deck consists of 81 cards varying in four features: number (one, two, or three); symbol (diamond, squiggle, oval); shading (solid, striped, or open); and color (red, green, or purple). Each possible combination of features (e.g., a card with three striped green diamonds) appears precisely once in the deck. History The game evolved out of a coding system that the designer used in her job as a gen...

@MichaelT Simplify the constraints; disallow loops wholesale. A cycle is when any of the 3 new contiguous spots would be of the same color

user55340

8 spots, a hole in the middle... so there's a problem there because you won't have a contigious other segment.

@MichaelT Or if one of the moveahead spots would be cycle, count the available contiguous inside spaces, if there's 8 you're fine.

user55340

a a a
a . a
-----

user55340

5:00 PM

Not bad yet, because you've only got 5 used of the 8, but it must fill in the hole on the edge.

I already mentioned the constraint regarding walls. Realistically after a set is laid down you have to treat it as a wall from then on

user55340

To me, its an intresting problem that I've worked on from time to time.

@MichaelT ...you should write it in prolog...

@MichaelT Think about this: Solve it for an arbitrarilly odd shaped board, could be shaped like an amoeba or have holes etc, then you'll have a more general algorithm that will play better after 4 sets have already been laid down and available space becomes strange

Or you could always do it for an infinite board, and then likely use some math to reduce it safely

user55340

Last time I tackled the problem, I was working on it as a fill, recognizing holes that are less than the remaining spot (or creating a segment that mod 8 has certain space left over.

That would probably have some more interesting/fun mathematically known geometry bits you could apply

user55340

5:08 PM

For example, if you create an empty section that has space mod 8 of 0, you can't spill into it. If you create a section of mod 8 of 1, you must put the next placement into that area.

user55340

If you create a section of mod 8 of 2, and you only have 1 placement left for that shape, that is in invalid placement. Backtrack.

@MichaelT See, with constraint checking you never have to backtrack, better average-time, worse best-time

user55340

5:43 PM

Whee... company pizza party.

Is there beer?

A: How to justify migration from Java 6 to Java 7?

some bounties really pay off!

23

Java 6 has reached EOL in February this year and will no longer receive public updates (including security) unless you buy very expensive enterprise support. That should be all the reason needed. Besides, overwhelming evidence suggests that backwards compatibility for Java runtimes is excellent...

Used this knowledge second time in 3 days at where I work. If this happens 3rd time I'll probably owe Michael some real money :)

I need to use this. I thought EOL was in 2014.

Unfortunately, there are other considerations. Like vetting 7 for proper security.

user55340

The software I was working on previously was firmly rooted in 1.6, and an upgrade to 1.7 (required for credit card processing!) was going to break a lot of the ant + xdoclet code that exists in there. Its not a small change either (1.4M loc code base).

Feels like they just released 7 too haha

I suppose it has been a few years though

5:47 PM

@ThomasOwens so did I. Timing of this answer turned out freakin' appropriate. Without it, I'd probably still kept wondering why certain feature in my JIRA suddenly broke

user55340

@ThomasOwens Was some root beer, and it wouldn't have been out of the question - but no one brought any.

user55340

Company tradition is new hires since last pizza party had to give a short bit about them.

user55340

I started out mine with "I'm Michael. I escaped from {previous employer with bad reputation around town}..."

user55340

(well bad reputation in the office, their retail side is very reasonable compared to other retail of comparable sizes)

I am stoked for 8.

Lambdas and something more like Joda Time.

5:52 PM

haven't even looked at 8 to be honest haha

ah crap... I just realized I'm going to have to work on a project in the fall that is entirely written in java 6....

dare we try and update?

Q: Considerations on which Java version to run in Production

@Ampt Ampt well I just checked. Test code I did to try util.concurrent.Phaser with freshly released beta jdk-7-ea-bin-b102-windows-i586-23_jul_2010.exe is dated July 1, 2010

About 3 years ago

user55340

11

Some people run the bleeding edge of technologies - updating the day that something is updated. In production, this isn't as appropriate. Researching about if the current (Java 7) version is ready for production produces a significant amount of old material that might not be correct anymore (at...

java software-updates production

2010? doesn't feel like 3 years. Pretty sure you're trying to pull the wool over my eyes @gnat

@Ampt "23_jul_2010" in exe name. I guess I started writing test code with earlier build ("July 1") then updated to 23 July for final version. IIRC I was talking to our architect about when we'll have to upgrade in mid 2011

@ThomasOwens That's a little depressing, .NET's had lambdas for 5 years now, you poor Java devs have been screwed by oracle's purchase

5:56 PM

back then we both were firm it's too early

production code needs to be stable, we didn't want to risk running it at the version that was publicly released only about half year ago

we wanted early adopters to catch most bugs before we upgrade. Because, you see...

Q: Design tips for a program with GUI's for basic, intermediate, advanced & expert users

Am I wrong, should this not be closed? I'm confused, it's so clearly got no question at all and yet only one other close voter, did I miss something in the Q that it should stick around for?

1

I've been asked to develop a program with four interchangeable GUI's so that users can switch from basic to intermediate to advanced to expert mode seamlessly and at will. I have a good understanding on how to separate the GUI from the business logic. That's taken care of. My question is exclus...

c# user-interface

the answer's even worse; lacking a question somebody just wrote up "Hey do this cuz uh it's what came to mind yeah!" answer..

user55340

The software I was working with was strongly tied to a specific version of JBoss... and that doesn't work with 1.7, need to upgrade the jboss version, but also then need to identify all the app/appserver linkages in 3rd party source of a huge code base. I'm glad I'm not doing that.